How would we have done without injuries to Bandoumel and Gary?

[Norm Peterson]

I hate to ask, but it's a question someone at some level really needs to consider.

 

When Bandoumel and Gary went down, we distributed minutes from guys who were shooting 22.4% and 26.3% from three, respectively, to guys who are shooting 40.3%, 36.2% and 40.9% (Tominaga, Lawrence and Hoiberg) from three.

 

I am suspicious that our defensive effectiveness has not diminished significantly, but that our offensive firepower has increased by a lot.

 

And, if that's true, then the lesson to be learned from this is maybe an emphatic "Recruit to shoot."

 

So, the question: Do you think we would be over .500 right now if Gary and Bandoumel were still in the starting lineup?

Edited March 8, 2023 by Norm Peterson

[royalfan]

As long as we keep the defensive assistants in tact we have to four capable three point shooters out there damn near all the time.  
 

Have been thinking about this a lot of late.  Just didn’t have the stones to bring it up out if respect for how hard those two played.  I do think bandoumel would have eventually started shooting like had throughout his career.  
 

Assuming our results wouldn’t have been a too much better with them, which is pry a safe assumption, we will start next year in a much better place as a result, Especially if Tominaga were to come back.  

[colhusker]

I don't think so Norm.  Just a different team since the two of them got hurt.  

[tcp]

you drop that kind of height, you become xavier. 

 

and embracing that depends on how the height was before you dropped it. 

 

it's the old addition by subtraction thing that haunts pro sports when flurries of trades are made. 

 

and like the pros, I think we largely got lucky. you can't assume an alternate universe here--i think hoiberg was just due for a break. 

[basketballjones]

Bando was kind of a double edge sword, and I refuse to be negative on him, but it’s clear that by just the way it worked out it benefitted us. Although I think he’s significantly a better shooter than he showed in his short stint.

 

 I believe if we had Gary we’re probably +2 more wins. Less Wilhelm.

[Handy Johnson]

It’s tempting to think we would’ve incorporated the shooters MORE into the lineup as the season unfolded, parsing out minutes & maybe even bringing Gary off the bench. I hate having guys on the team that can’t shoot, & our record this past month speaks for itself. BUT then I think of Gary @ Minnesota & Emmanuel’s on ball defense & maturity. “Ya Dance with the Girl that Brung Ya” however so this is a paradox we can ponder after we Win that Trophy  

[millerhusker]

You can pretty easily mask an individual below-average defender or two if you have great team buy-in. You can't really mask poor shooters/scorers at the 2-3-4 spots, ESPECIALLY when your 1 and your 5 do most of their work, scoring-wise, in the paint. However, just my opinion, but I think Gary would've made this squad even better with all the little things he did. And historically, he's been pretty efficient inside the arc. Bandoumel, as a leader and a voice in the huddle, helped this team for sure. Controversial, but when he was on the court I thought he was a slight net negative, and still think that. 

[basketballjones]

14 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

It’s tempting to think we would’ve incorporated the shooters MORE into the lineup as the season unfolded, parsing out minutes & maybe even bringing Gary off the bench. I hate having guys on the team that can’t shoot, & our record this past month speaks for itself. BUT then I think of Gary @ Minnesota & Emmanuel’s on ball defense & maturity. “Ya Dance with the Girl that Brung Ya” however so this is a paradox we can ponder after we Win that Trophy  

What would hvae hopefully happened in the multiHuskerverse is that you stopped playing Gary and Bando at the same time all game. Start to get you going defensively, but then you stagger their minutes with other shooters being in there. 

What's scary is to ponder just how important Sam Hoiberg has been, and how little (never) he would have played. Seriously, he makes like the same 3 or 4 big plays to close out games every time. 1 huge 3, gets to the free throw line, gets a steal and/or charge. Some huge tip so we get an O rebound. 

[kldm64]

That is a totally fair question and the answer in NO.  We were not a great offensive team with our previous lineup and with injuries, we were forced to play guys that are much better on the offensive end of the floor while still giving full effort on the defensive end.  I think Fred is finally getting back to how he likes to coach as previous seasons, it seemed like there was conflicts in philosophy with assistants on best way to coach and win games.  You can see they are all on the same page.  You can't win gave based on playing defensive only.  We finally have a lineup that can score which was lacking earlier.  I 100% tip my hat to the coaching staff as well as the entire roster (including Bandoumel and Gary) for this season and watching this team and coaching staff evolve to what it is today.  Extremely impressive

[Norm Peterson]

I think it’s noteworthy that one of our best defenders outside of Gary and Bandoumel hasn’t seen the floor more than a few minutes per game for the past several games. Tells you where the priorities are now.

[Art Vandalay]

22 minutes ago, kldm64 said:

That is a totally fair question and the answer in NO.  We were not a great offensive team with our previous lineup and with injuries, we were forced to play guys that are much better on the offensive end of the floor while still giving full effort on the defensive end.  I think Fred is finally getting back to how he likes to coach as previous seasons, it seemed like there was conflicts in philosophy with assistants on best way to coach and win games.  You can see they are all on the same page.  You can't win gave based on playing defensive only.  We finally have a lineup that can score which was lacking earlier.  I 100% tip my hat to the coaching staff as well as the entire roster (including Bandoumel and Gary) for this season and watching this team and coaching staff evolve to what it is today.  Extremely impressive

I think he wanted to play offense like this all year. However Bando and CJ have not shot it as expected. You would think those guys would both be 35% plus guys based off the past but not so much. I’m just glad J Law and SH have improved so much

[49r]

We did take the #1 team in the country to overtime with them on the floor.

[royalfan]

Hoiberg has made a lot of winning plays late in close games.  That is a big part of why I don’t think we would have done any better and probably worse.  For a team that doesn’t really know how to win, having a guy out there at the end that is not afraid to win is huge.  

[Handy Johnson]

4 hours ago, basketballjones said:

What would hvae hopefully happened in the multiHuskerverse is that you stopped playing Gary and Bando at the same time all game. Start to get you going defensively, but then you stagger their minutes with other shooters being in there. 

What's scary is to ponder just how important Sam Hoiberg has been, and how little (never) he would have played. Seriously, he makes like the same 3 or 4 big plays to close out games every time. 1 huge 3, gets to the free throw line, gets a steal and/or charge. Some huge tip so we get an O rebound. 

And, let’s not forget how HUGE Lawrence has been setting the tone right out of the gate. I’m excited to see what he & Lloyd might look like in the same Backcourt. 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Handy Johnson

[Minnesota_Husker]

I think guys stepped up when given the opportunity. That being said, I think Hoiberg has lacked depth on his bench. Guys who stepped up don’t have a lot of guys behind them pushing but also think we saw it in the MsU game, they got tired. That level of defensive intensity wears on you.

I think we would have seen those three guys you named get some more minutes to give the others a breather.

I hope this off-season we can add more depth guys who play hard. No problem running out 9-10 guys a night who play with intensity.


That being said, I think we will see this catch up with us in the B1G tourney. By day 3 we are going to have tired legs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Huskerpapa]

I sort of brought this up in another thread.  

 

It is sort of amazing how our identity has changed given the injuries to Bando, Gary and Blaise; the virtual disappearance of Dawson and lest we forget, the loss of McPherson in the preseason.

 

I was critical of our staff over the last few years; but their collective work this year is second to none.  

 

But to answer the question, I don't know.  We may not have seen the emergence of Lawrence.  We certainly wouldn't have seen Sam H on the floor.  I question whether we would have seen Keisei emerge as significantly as he did.  But we very well could have reached or exceeded our current record.  We were just starting to find ourselves when the injury bug slammed us.

 

I guess we will never know.

 

Arguably going into the first practice, our two deep likely looked like this:

PG  -  Sam G & McPherson 

SG  -  Bando & Keisei 

W.   -  CJ & Dawson

PF  -  Gary & Wilhelm 

C.  -   DW & Blaise

 

That is a lot of change in less than 6 months.

Edited March 6, 2023 by Huskerpapa

[Crush78]

It's tough to say, but we probably would'vehave been better than3-9 in conference with them healthy. But I also doubt we would've had enough offense to go 6-2 down the stretch. 

 

[Navin R. Johnson]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

I think it’s noteworthy that one of our best defenders outside of Gary and Bandoumel hasn’t seen the floor more than a few minutes per game for the past several games. Tells you where the priorities are now.

 

It's crazy that we seemed to lose our best defenders.  Bando and Gary of course but add in QM before the season started who had the reputation as a top defender, BK who is our best low post defender, and now Dawson doesn't play much ( coaches decision) At one time people were applauding Hoiberg for adjusting to the physical Big Ten with big body defenders and now we have gone back to shooters. 

[millerhusker]

2 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

It's crazy that we seemed to lose our best defenders.  Bando and Gary of course but add in QM before the season started who had the reputation as a top defender, BK who is our best low post defender, and now Dawson doesn't play much ( coaches decision) At one time people were applauding Hoiberg for adjusting to the physical Big Ten with big body defenders and now we have gone back to shooters. 

The culture matters the most. Our defense isn't elite, but those guys make opposing offenses work to get a shot on every possession. 

[HuskerBB]

13 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

The culture matters the most. Our defense isn't elite, but those guys make opposing offenses work to get a shot on every possession. 

This is the point I wanted to make in reading this thread.   There is no way to know for certain what our record may have been without the injuries.   But I think it is clear that Bandoumel and Gary were a huge part of instilling the defensive culture that we still bring to the floor.   Had Bandoumel not get hurt we likely would not have seen the emergence of Jamarques Lawrence into a really valuable player - but at the same time I am pretty certain that without Bandoumel on the team Jamarques would not be the player he has become.   Even though we have done well without them on the floor I don't think that diminishes the huge positive impact that Bandoumel and Gary had on this team.

 

[Fullbacksympathy]

I honestly think we'd be attempting to make the NCAA tournament with Gary on the court.

 

Gary won us a few games with his insane effort.  He's an absolutely elite defender and rebounder and very serviceable offensively.  We haven't really replaced his impact with anyone.  Bando's production has definitely been caught by the combo of Keisei/Lawrence/Hoiberg.  I love Bando, too, and I give him a ton of credit for turning us into a serious brand moving forward with his defense/toughness/attitude.  

 

I just don't think it's quite fair to lump Bando (loved his effort) with Gary.  Gary was arguably our best player before his injury on many nights, in my mind.  He was second in rebounds, first in steals, second in blocked shots, fourth in scoring.  He also had a knack for clutch hustle plays when we needed them most.  I cannot wait to get him back next season.  

 

 

[B-town hoopsfan]

1 hour ago, Fullbacksympathy said:

I honestly think we'd be attempting to make the NCAA tournament with Gary on the court.

 

Gary won us a few games with his insane effort.  He's an absolutely elite defender and rebounder and very serviceable offensively.  We haven't really replaced his impact with anyone.  Bando's production has definitely been caught by the combo of Keisei/Lawrence/Hoiberg.  I love Bando, too, and I give him a ton of credit for turning us into a serious brand moving forward with his defense/toughness/attitude.  

 

I just don't think it's quite fair to lump Bando (loved his effort) with Gary.  Gary was arguably our best player before his injury on many nights, in my mind.  He was second in rebounds, first in steals, second in blocked shots, fourth in scoring.  He also had a knack for clutch hustle plays when we needed them most.  I cannot wait to get him back next season.  

 

 

Agree I think we best penn state and northwestern with Gary. He just has an ability like no one else that we have to go up and get it when it comes to rebounding.  

[cipsucks]

5 hours ago, Minnesota_Husker said:

That being said, I think we will see this catch up with us in the B1G tourney. By day 3 we are going to have tired legs.
 

Then they'll be really gassed come day 5.  

[Nebrasketball1979]

21 minutes ago, cipsucks said:

Then they'll be really gassed come day 5.  

There is precedence for this.  UConn won 5 in row to win the Big East tournament back in 2011 and then rattled off 6 more after that to win the title.  A tall, tall order but not impossible, especially with how average the BIG appears to be and how well we are currently playing.

[Red Don]

36 minutes ago, cipsucks said:

Then they'll be really gassed come day 5.  

 

I see what you did there!

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Red Don