At this point, if things keep going this way ...

[Norm Peterson]

There seems to be a curious disconnect in some of the voting. At least half the people who want to give Fred another couple of years don't think he'll get the program turned around.

 

If you think he'll eventually make it happen, then I could see saying give him more time. But what's the justification to give him more time if you don't think he's going to get things turned around?

 

I'm just curious about that.

[LNKtrnsplnt]

54 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

 

   3.  It looks like both Derrick Walker and Trey McGowens are likely to return for next year--if that happens, we could finally have a solid group of seasoned players who have played with each other;

 

 While I wish this would happen, I’m not convinced. Walker is pretty old and can’t see trey coming back if Bryce leaves. I hope I’m wrong. But will all this losing make them want to come back?

[HuskerFever]

5 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

There seems to be a curious disconnect in some of the voting. At least half the people who want to give Fred another couple of years don't think he'll get the program turned around.

 

If you think he'll eventually make it happen, then I could see saying give him more time. But what's the justification to give him more time if you don't think he's going to get things turned around?

 

I'm just curious about that.

 

It's probably a mix between:

 

1. $18M is an incredibly deep pocket; you're basically "saving" money by keeping him around even a year longer

 

2. For the same people who said that we needed to give Miles enough time to build their system, Hoiberg should be allowed the same

 

Not speaking for everyone here, just biting on an interesting question from Norm to start the conversation.

[hugh42]

11 minutes ago, LNKtrnsplnt said:

 While I wish this would happen, I’m not convinced. Walker is pretty old and can’t see trey coming back if Bryce leaves. I hope I’m wrong. But will all this losing make them want to come back?

 

I don't see either one coming back next year, especially Trey. I think the McGowen's plan from the get go was one year together and then go pro. I think they said as much on one of their podcasts. Walker is old and I can't imagine he wouldn't want to get paid for playing basketball.

[hskr4life]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

If both McGowens came back, that would be a big help. That's probably not likely, but it would be the best chance for significant improvement in our record to have a guy like Bryce in a 2nd year of college ball having a better sense of the lay of the land.

 

Fred needs to find a floor general who looks to pass first but can make the shot when it's there. Not sure that guy is on our current roster or list of recruits for next year.

 

And Blaise Keita needs to be all that and a bag of chips. And Wilhelm needs to heal and return.

 

And the guys who are supposed to be shooters need to figure out how to light it up.

 

And then we have a shot to be a .500 or so team. Maybe.

 

If both McGowens came back... IF IF IF.... I may get a little excited again next year.  However, IF both of them came back, expectations for Fred would have to be NCAA or bust I would think.

[HuskerFever]

14 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

If both McGowens came back... IF IF IF.... I may get a little excited again next year.  However, IF both of them came back, expectations for Fred would have to be NCAA or bust I would think.

 

If we can win games on prior rosters that have less talent, then losing the McGowens isn't the end of the world.

 

But it's going to take a lot of change in philosophy, mindset, or physicality to make any sort of improvement.

[Ron Mexico]

I disagree with @nustudent of the mess Miles left. Miles didn't leave a mess our previous 2 AD's did. One for basically withdrawing any kind of support, the other for the bloated contract extension. Also, it doesn't take 5yrs to turn around a basketball program.

What's going to happen:

Renegotiated contract with lowered buyout and results oriented incentive bonuses added. Trev will also publicly and behind the scenes give FH everything he needs to succeed. There is no way that Trev wants to have to deal with firing a basketball coach anytime soon and thus he's going to give FH whatever he needs. He is likely going to assist FH with some staff changes. We already know about Doc. I think one or both of Armon and Matt are gone. I'm leaning towards Armon. He then needs to bring a couple of bench coaches who can help him clean things up. For sure one or both needs to be African American. Think lower level D1 or D2 assistants.

Since we know that Doc is gone could probably start a thread on assistant coaches.

Loenser isn't going anywhere. Could also see some "administrative" changes as well.

 

Heard on good authority that both Trey and Derrick are leaning towards coming back next year. This would avoid a complete roster flip. We would only be losing Bryce, Verge and Webster. 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Ron Mexico

[Vinny]

Honest question: at what point is poor performance adequate enough to be fired “with cause” and not have that giant buyout? How does the revolving door of transfers affect our APR? If we aren’t winning and the athletes aren’t getting the experience they deserve, is the coach doing their job?  I know if things are going downhill at my job because of my job performance, I’m getting canned without any sort of recourse and I’m a union employee.  
 

Imagine a scenario where a coach has every resource they need: great facilities, assistants, fan support, recruiting budget, current talent and they still can’t win games or create an environment where the students athletes are staying and thriving. That feels like “cause”, doesn’t it?

[HuskerFever]

9 minutes ago, Vinny said:

Honest question: at what point is poor performance adequate enough to be fired “with cause” and not have that giant buyout?

 

Not a lawyer, but seems very unlikely.

 

But if USA Today has been sitting on a gold mine, then you might have some hope at the expense of the reputation of the university:

 

https://www.bannersociety.com/2019/12/5/20997328/college-football-coach-buyouts-kansas-david-beaty

[Ron Mexico]

9 minutes ago, Vinny said:

Honest question: at what point is poor performance adequate enough to be fired “with cause” and not have that giant buyout? How does the revolving door of transfers affect our APR? If we aren’t winning and the athletes aren’t getting the experience they deserve, is the coach doing their job?  I know if things are going downhill at my job because of my job performance, I’m getting canned without any sort of recourse and I’m a union employee.  
 

Imagine a scenario where a coach has every resource they need: great facilities, assistants, fan support, recruiting budget, current talent and they still can’t win games or create an environment where the students athletes are staying and thriving. That feels like “cause”, doesn’t it?

I doubt there is a clause in contract about losing. Cause relates to misconduct such as breaking the law or violating an important company policy. He has done none of those things.

[BannedAccount]

2 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

I disagree with @nustudent of the mess Miles left. Miles didn't leave a mess our previous 2 AD's did. One for basically withdrawing any kind of support, the other for the bloated contract extension. Also, it doesn't take 5yrs to turn around a basketball program.

What's going to happen:

Renegotiated contract with lowered buyout and results oriented incentive bonuses added. Trev will also publicly and behind the scenes give FH everything he needs to succeed. There is no way that Trev wants to have to deal with firing a basketball coach anytime soon and thus he's going to give FH whatever he needs. He is likely going to assist FH with some staff changes. We already know about Doc. I think one or both of Armon and Matt are gone. I'm leaning towards Armon. He then needs to bring a couple of bench coaches who can help him clean things up. For sure one or both needs to be African American. Think lower level D1 or D2 assistants.

Since we know that Doc is gone could probably start a thread on assistant coaches.

Loenser isn't going anywhere. Could also see some "administrative" changes as well.

 

Heard on good authority that both Trey and Derrick are leaning towards coming back next year. This would avoid a complete roster flip. We would only be losing Bryce, Verge and Webster. 

 

 

You hope thats all thats leaving.  You would think Keon and CJ are stuck here.  Sipple seems to think Andre is gone as he was close to leaving last year.  No way the only players leaving are graduating and Bryce.  

[Chuck Taylor]

12 hours ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Not a lawyer, but seems very unlikely.

 

But if USA Today has been sitting on a gold mine, then you might have some hope at the expense of the reputation of the university:

 

https://www.bannersociety.com/2019/12/5/20997328/college-football-coach-buyouts-kansas-david-beaty

If putting "NCAA violations" rumors out there is a tactic for firing with cause, then both the football and basketball programs are set up for firings. Funny how those rumors disappeared about as quickly as they started. 

 

If you're a conspiracy theorist, then you'd expect Fred to agree to reduced contract like Frost did.

[Handy Johnson]

Here’s a novel idea, what if Bryce/Trey & even Walker decide to return next year because they can’t stand the thought of leaving THEIR University after such a disastrous season? Maybe they want to leave this place in better shape than they found it? Be the group that makes that Sweet Sixteen appearance & saves Fred’s job. Fortune & Fame will always be there but leaving YOUR mark at YOUR Alma Mater is a once in a lifetime chance…

[hhcscott]

18 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

There seems to be a curious disconnect in some of the voting. At least half the people who want to give Fred another couple of years don't think he'll get the program turned around.

 

If you think he'll eventually make it happen, then I could see saying give him more time. But what's the justification to give him more time if you don't think he's going to get things turned around?

 

I'm just curious about that.

I think it's the difference between idealism and world weariness. I'd like to believe that people will do the right thing...but in my 52 years, I've seen enough to know it's far from a sure bet. Money talks and bull crap  gets us a multi-year seat in 14th place.

[kldm64]

14 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

I disagree with @nustudent of the mess Miles left. Miles didn't leave a mess our previous 2 AD's did. One for basically withdrawing any kind of support, the other for the bloated contract extension. Also, it doesn't take 5yrs to turn around a basketball program.

What's going to happen:

Renegotiated contract with lowered buyout and results oriented incentive bonuses added. Trev will also publicly and behind the scenes give FH everything he needs to succeed. There is no way that Trev wants to have to deal with firing a basketball coach anytime soon and thus he's going to give FH whatever he needs. He is likely going to assist FH with some staff changes. We already know about Doc. I think one or both of Armon and Matt are gone. I'm leaning towards Armon. He then needs to bring a couple of bench coaches who can help him clean things up. For sure one or both needs to be African American. Think lower level D1 or D2 assistants.

Since we know that Doc is gone could probably start a thread on assistant coaches.

Loenser isn't going anywhere. Could also see some "administrative" changes as well.

 

Heard on good authority that both Trey and Derrick are leaning towards coming back next year. This would avoid a complete roster flip. We would only be losing Bryce, Verge and Webster. 

 

 

 

Who's to say the Fred will agree to a new renegotiated contract?  And why would he?  He can say no, I signed the original contact and UNL can honor it or pay me $18 million dollars to leave.  Fred doesn't have to renegotiate if he doesn't want to.  He has all the power in this situation.  

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

14 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

I think one or both of Armon and Matt are gone. I'm leaning towards Armon. He then needs to bring a couple of bench coaches who can help him clean things up. 

 

 

This is an oxymoron. 

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, Chuck Taylor said:

If putting "NCAA violations" rumors out there is a tactic for firing with cause, then both the football and basketball programs are set up for firings. Funny how those rumors disappeared about as quickly as they started. 

 

If you're a conspiracy theorist, then you'd expect Fred to agree to reduced contract like Frost did.

 

[Nighthawk]

On 1/31/2022 at 11:46 AM, Norm Peterson said:

 

Hmmmm. You sure about that, boss?

 

I mean, I am not blown away by any of the guys we have signed, TBH. Had big hopes for Blaise Keita, but is he even playing these days? Or injured?

 

Hate to badmouth future players...but show me what you got when you are in a husker uniform.  Press, Coaching staff and hell people on here, were saying how awesome these guys we have were supposed to be (same can be said with the fans of the football program). I honestly don't give a darn (wanted to keep it kid friendly) how good a player is in HS or Jr College..or heck another major university. I know the coaches have to go for what they think looks like the best for the program.  That's part of their job....but until a player can prove himself IN A HUSKER UNIFORM people need to stop pumping these guys up.  I'm to the point of expecting garbage out of the program until they can prove me wrong. 

[Huskerpapa]

This may or may not be worth discussing, but what the hey.

When we do have a time out, most times the players sit while the coaching staff meets.  Fred then sits in front of the players and provides them direction (although that is ripe for additional debate as well).

I was watching the Rutgers v. Northwestern game the other night and Collins stood behind the assistant coach who was seated and provided the coaching.  I've seen this often with Northwestern as well as other teams.

By the way, you will see Cook step aside often as well letting his coaches coach...you see it in football and baseball where coordinators or miscellaneous coaches take the lead.

Add to that, Trev seems to push that the head coach should be more of a CEO.  

I guess what I am proposing is that a different voice(s) should be more active with the players.  I am not convinced we have the right coaches to do that or if it is the right thing to do; but I do know what we currently are doing is not working. 

[Navin R. Johnson]

1 hour ago, Huskerpapa said:

This may or may not be worth discussing, but what the hey.

When we do have a time out, most times the players sit while the coaching staff meets.  Fred then sits in front of the players and provides them direction (although that is ripe for additional debate as well).

I was watching the Rutgers v. Northwestern game the other night and Collins stood behind the assistant coach who was seated and provided the coaching.  I've seen this often with Northwestern as well as other teams.

By the way, you will see Cook step aside often as well letting his coaches coach...you see it in football and baseball where coordinators or miscellaneous coaches take the lead.

Add to that, Trev seems to push that the head coach should be more of a CEO.  

I guess what I am proposing is that a different voice(s) should be more active with the players.  I am not convinced we have the right coaches to do that or if it is the right thing to do; but I do know what we currently are doing is not working. 

 

Sometimes in basketball the assistant that has the scout for the team they are playing might take the lead in the huddle to let the guys know what play the other team might run, who to foul... but I think the head coach has to be the main voice in most cases.  

[OmahaHusker]

On 2/2/2022 at 1:14 PM, Norm Peterson said:

There seems to be a curious disconnect in some of the voting. At least half the people who want to give Fred another couple of years don't think he'll get the program turned around.

 

If you think he'll eventually make it happen, then I could see saying give him more time. But what's the justification to give him more time if you don't think he's going to get things turned around?

 

I'm just curious about that.

 

Tbh because I care about football more and would rather we swallow another year of Hoiberg at the very least to make sure Frost has his act together and save the cash. 

[Ron Mexico]

On 2/3/2022 at 8:22 AM, kldm64 said:

 

Who's to say the Fred will agree to a new renegotiated contract?  And why would he?  He can say no, I signed the original contact and UNL can honor it or pay me $18 million dollars to leave.  Fred doesn't have to renegotiate if he doesn't want to.  He has all the power in this situation.  

Is that possible. Yes. Is it likely. No. It would not be a good look for him and he would absolutely get dragged. 

It may appear that he has power but he really doesn't. Real power as a coach comes from winning. Being a d*** about renegotiating your contract when you don't win a single conference game will hurt him in the immediate and long term. Nebraska has a bit of power here as well. They could just force him to coach another year or two and then fire him when his buyout is significantly less. Bottom line is neither party is going to be that petty. Something will get worked out at the end of the season. There are a few scenarios here:

1. Negotiate a decreased buyout and all parties can part ways amicably.

2. Renegotiate current contract. 

3. Do nothing this year and make a decision after the 2022/23 season.

4. ?

[Huskerpapa]

59 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

Is that possible. Yes. Is it likely. No. It would not be a good look for him and he would absolutely get dragged. 

It may appear that he has power but he really doesn't. Real power as a coach comes from winning. Being a d*** about renegotiating your contract when you don't win a single conference game will hurt him in the immediate and long term. Nebraska has a bit of power here as well. They could just force him to coach another year or two and then fire him when his buyout is significantly less. Bottom line is neither party is going to be that petty. Something will get worked out at the end of the season. There are a few scenarios here:

1. Negotiate a decreased buyout and all parties can part ways amicably.

2. Renegotiate current contract. 

3. Do nothing this year and make a decision after the 2022/23 season.

4. ?

Fred isn't in the room when his contract is talked about.  His agent handles any negotiation or restructuring talk.  Other discussions can take place but the contract is the contract.  Fred could fire his agent or he can go to his agent and say this ain't working, get me out of it...but, yeah.

[hhcscott]

For Fred to walk away without full buyout, while the right thing to do, would be seen as a dangerous precedent.

The one thing that Nebraska needs to work on is finding a way to offer incentives that make success more profitable than failure buyouts. We seem to have abandoned the idea that success leads to wealth...we pay more for potential than we do for proof.

My wife is begging me to get a job that I can fail into a million plus $$$$.

[HB]

3 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

Is that possible. Yes. Is it likely. No. It would not be a good look for him and he would absolutely get dragged. 

It may appear that he has power but he really doesn't. Real power as a coach comes from winning. Being a d*** about renegotiating your contract when you don't win a single conference game will hurt him in the immediate and long term. Nebraska has a bit of power here as well. They could just force him to coach another year or two and then fire him when his buyout is significantly less. Bottom line is neither party is going to be that petty. Something will get worked out at the end of the season. There are a few scenarios here:

1. Negotiate a decreased buyout and all parties can part ways amicably.

2. Renegotiate current contract. 

3. Do nothing this year and make a decision after the 2022/23 season.

4. ?

#1 is what will happen