Why i'd stick with fred.

[NUdiehard]

1 hour ago, Ron Mexico said:

Honestly, I'll concede the bad luck with roster turnover, C19, etc. None of that explain what we are witnessing on the court. Count the number of +20pt losses, count the number of +15pt losses, and the number of +10pt losses. How many times has this team actually outrebounded our opponent? 

Throw all of that out the window, because nothing this team does on the court passes the eyeball test. We have all watched them play many games this seasons. 

We've all watched this team play many games over the last 3 seasons.

Watch how they play together. Look at their effort. Look at the team chemistry. Look at the lack of discipline and accountability. 

I'd be more than willing to give him a pass due to some "bad luck" as described in your post. What I won't give him a pass on is what I see on the court. That is all on Fred and it has been there since the 1st season. We've all ignored it because we have been giving him the benefit of the doubt.

Can you, or anyone who thinks like this, point to anything you've seen on the court that gives you hope based on what you've seen the last  3 yrs?

 

 

I will concede that the lack of effort in these recent games has been very disappointing.  No one wants to watch that, ever. 

 

But is it a result of systemic coaching issues?  Maybe.  But because of Fred's prior coaching success, it seems better to give him some benefit of the doubt.  If he is such a pathetic coach who doesn't teach any fundamentals, how did he take an Iowa St. team that had 5 losing seasons prior to him arriving and after one year take them to 4 straight NCAA tourneys with a sweet 16 and (multiple 2nd to 3rd rounds) and in his final year have his best Big 12 conference record of all?  How does that happen if he is a bumbling fool of a coach?

 

At the end of last year, the team had to be shut down for over 3 weeks, and then I think most would agree they gave a valiant effort those last few weeks where they crammed in game after game after game and still had a top 40 defense and I don't recall seeing any quit in them at that time.  Do you?  That was just last year.  Did Fred forget how to motivate players since one year ago?   Are Fred's problems with this year's team "systemic" if he did not have those same problems just last year?

 

Did his team have problems last year?  Absolutely. But the biggest problem was they couldn't score enough.  Problem. But a different problem which was largely a result of a different roster (Banton was an excellent defender and rebounder but couldn't shoot to save his life; now we have Verge and Keisei and Bryce, who are decent/good at scoring, but can't defend). 

 

Fred has proven he can win in a power 5 conference with the right roster.  His incoming recruits look like his best ever.  If you fire Fred, next year is almost guaranteed to be disaster no matter what new coach they bring in because the new recruits will probably bail and the whole roster will have to be turned over on short time frame (like Fred's first year).  So are you really losing much by giving Fred one more year to see what he can do with these new recruits?  If it is a bust, fire him and at least you have the new recruits in house and can try to keep them longer.

 

Edited February 22, 2022 by NUdiehard

[uneblinstu]

14 minutes ago, HB said:

Build a good team around Briedenbach next season??   He looks like a decent player who actually tries and plays the game the right way, but you're not building a Big 10 winner with him as the #1 guy....I'll have what Blackshirt is smoking.  

IDK if you build around him yet, but Fred said after Dawson got here he dove for more loose balls in practice than the rest of the roster combined had up to that point (roughly translated). They need more guys like that. It also speaks to what's missing on the current rotation. When Briedenbach was on he floor, it was glaring how he was willing to get on the floor for a loose ball and everyone else seems to actively avoid having to do that. Honestly, I think it drives Fred crazy...

[HB]

Just now, uneblinstu said:

IDK if you build around him yet, but Fred said after Dawson got here he dove for more loose balls in practice than the rest of the roster combined had up to that point (roughly translated). They need more guys like that. It also speaks to what's missing on the current rotation. When Briedenbach was on he floor, it was glaring how he was willing to get on the floor for a loose ball and everyone else seems to actively avoid having to do that. Honestly, I think it drives Fred crazy...

Well if it drives him crazy he should have recruited differently (or actually recruited at all, vs. having Matt do it all),  and get his guys to buy into the effort needed.   That's what good coaching is about.  Clearly Mr. Laidback can't motivate his players to play the game the right way.   The fact that Fred had to say what he said about Dawson is a clear indictment of his program.   He should have kept that to  himself and the team.   Speaks volumes. 

[hhcmatt]

Just now, HB said:

Well if it drives him crazy he should have recruited differently (or actually recruited at all, vs. having Matt do it all),  and get his guys to buy into the effort needed.   That's what good coaching is about.  Clearly Mr. Laidback can't motivate his players to play the game the right way.   The fact that Fred had to say what he said about Dawson is a clear indictment of his program.   He should have kept that to  himself and the team.   Speaks volumes. 

 

Hoiberg needs culture players because he either won't or cannot provide it and that's where we're at in year 3

[uneblinstu]

2 minutes ago, HB said:

Well if it drives him crazy he should have recruited differently (or actually recruited at all, vs. having Matt do it all),  and get his guys to buy into the effort needed.   That's what good coaching is about.  Clearly Mr. Laidback can't motivate his players to play the game the right way.   The fact that Fred had to say what he said about Dawson is a clear indictment of his program.   He should have kept that to  himself and the team.   Speaks volumes. 

Easy to say now. I think he was getting more of that than he actually ended up getting. I think by the time he said that about Dawson he had pressed all the buttons and hoped that would shake them up. It didn't.

[hhcmatt]

5 hours ago, Blackshirt83 said:

I'll be over here hoping they are smart enough to do with Hoiberg similarity what they did with Frost. Add a year on to his contract but keep the total dollar amount as is. Essentially making this season a free season and he can earn the extra year becoming equal to an extra 9M if he makes or wins a game in the ncaa tournament in the next 2 seconds.

 

Back the truck up here.

  

Scott Frost didn't get a year added onto his contract.  He gets a year IF he hits those undisclosed metrics in his contract.  However, he got his salary reduced and his buyout goes from $15m to $7.5m on Oct 1st of 2022.  Half his coaching staff was replaced. *That* is a clearly defined path to hope for the best, prepare for the worst.  That's a coach in Frost who has bet on himself and was willing to change. You're suggesting that our athletic director just 'stay the course' with Fred because that's what he did with football when in fact the opposite occurred.

 

Hoiberg has an at least $18.5 MILLION DOLLAR BUYOUT and what appears to be an unwillingness to change. Is all this DONU and his grandfather coaching here talk real to the point he's willing to not hold the athletic department hostage or is that just a nice story to tell? Is he also willing to replace half his coaching staff?  Is he willing to bet on himself to the point where he reduces that buyout amount SIGNFICANTLY? Is it that much to ask a guy who doesn't need the money to bet on himself?  Giving a pragmatic AD like Alberts that option is one very good way for him to be back next year.

 

At this point it just doesn't seem like change is going to happen and we'll just see a mutually agreed upon parting. We'll know soon enough.

 

[Blackshirt83]

49 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Back the truck up here.

  

Scott Frost didn't get a year added onto his contract.  He gets a year IF he hits those undisclosed metrics in his contract.  However, he got his salary reduced and his buyout goes from $15m to $7.5m on Oct 1st of 2022.  Half his coaching staff was replaced. *That* is a clearly defined path to hope for the best, prepare for the worst.  That's a coach in Frost who has bet on himself and was willing to change. You're suggesting that our athletic director just 'stay the course' with Fred because that's what he did with football when in fact the opposite occurred.

 

Hoiberg has an at least $18.5 MILLION DOLLAR BUYOUT and what appears to be an unwillingness to change. Is all this DONU and his grandfather coaching here talk real to the point he's willing to not hold the athletic department hostage or is that just a nice story to tell? Is he also willing to replace half his coaching staff?  Is he willing to bet on himself to the point where he reduces that buyout amount SIGNFICANTLY? Is it that much to ask a guy who doesn't need the money to bet on himself?  Giving a pragmatic AD like Alberts that option is one very good way for him to be back next year.

 

At this point it just doesn't seem like change is going to happen and we'll just see a mutually agreed upon parting. We'll know soon enough.

 

I didn't mean do literally the exact same deal. Just adjust the contract instead of giving up on the whole administration. The extra year is a way to adjust the cost of the deal to an equitable degree that Hoiberg would agree to a lower provisional buyout favorable to the university. You give up nothing to get what you need to keep him while appeasing the correct people, give the university a little flexibility and give Hoiberg a performance based way to be made whole again.

[basketballjones]

Yikes

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, Blackshirt83 said:

I didn't mean do literally the exact same deal. Just adjust the contract instead of giving up on the whole administration. The extra year is a way to adjust the cost of the deal to an equitable degree that Hoiberg would agree to a lower provisional buyout favorable to the university. You give up nothing to get what you need to keep him while appeasing the correct people, give the university a little flexibility and give Hoiberg a performance based way to be made whole again.

 

If he's willing to change his buyout to 3.5 mil we can sign him until 2525, assuming man is still alive.

[Fullbacksympathy]

4 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

IDK if you build around him yet, but Fred said after Dawson got here he dove for more loose balls in practice than the rest of the roster combined had up to that point (roughly translated). They need more guys like that. It also speaks to what's missing on the current rotation. When Briedenbach was on he floor, it was glaring how he was willing to get on the floor for a loose ball and everyone else seems to actively avoid having to do that. Honestly, I think it drives Fred crazy...

 

The exact opposite is the problem with Fred's entire approach.  He's either gotta get kids in here that do it automatically like he would've as a player, or coach them up to do it.  He should be desperately in the face of ANY kid who wouldn't hit the deck for a loose ball.  His comment was a major indictment.  Imagine if Izzo said something similar.  He never would.  Why?  Because any kid knows damned well before they walk into practice that they'll have hell to pay if they don't play hard.  We all know that about Izzo.  It's obvious and inherent.  

 

I honestly can't even fathom typing that a formerly celebrated coach like Fred can't get kids to play hard.  That's like saying we have no coach at all.  Just baffling.  

[HuskerFever]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

If he's willing to change his buyout to 3.5 mil we can sign him until 2525, assuming man is still alive.

 

In that event, his next of kin would take over.

[uneblinstu]

22 minutes ago, Fullbacksympathy said:

 

The exact opposite is the problem with Fred's entire approach.  He's either gotta get kids in here that do it automatically like he would've as a player, or coach them up to do it.  He should be desperately in the face of ANY kid who wouldn't hit the deck for a loose ball.  His comment was a major indictment.  Imagine if Izzo said something similar.  He never would.  Why?  Because any kid knows damned well before they walk into practice that they'll have hell to pay if they don't play hard.  We all know that about Izzo.  It's obvious and inherent.  

 

I honestly can't even fathom typing that a formerly celebrated coach like Fred can't get kids to play hard.  That's like saying we have no coach at all.  Just baffling.  

I don't think that's the same thing at all. And it is a major indictment. It might be the one that ends up costing Fred his job. I think he thought he could coach that part of their game up. If that was the case, he clearly miscalculated. I've seen enough of his reactions to things they do (or don't do) during games that indicate to me they've gone over this stuff with them. So, a big part of that conversation with Trev, if he lets Fred make a case for keeping him around, has to be what is he going to do to achieve different results. It's painfully obvious to everyone that something has to change. It's going to be up to Trev to determine what exactly. 

[HB]

3 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

If he's willing to change his buyout to 3.5 mil we can sign him until 2525, assuming man is still alive.

 

Upvote for the Zager and Evans reference.  

[Jugular]

We are the worst coached P5 team I’ve ever seen. We have this record with a 1st round pick on our roster. Fred and Matty A (I don’t include the other coaches because it’s minimal what they are allowed to even do) have shown nothing in 3 years that should lead anyone to believe they have any idea on how to assemble a competitive roster

[Crush78]

acceptable responses to thread title;

1. I am employed by Fred and want to keep my job.

2. Have suffered some sort of traumatic brain injury, think its still 2014 and live in Ames.

 

[Chuck Taylor]

10 hours ago, Jugular said:

We are the worst coached P5 team I’ve ever seen. We have this record with a 1st round pick on our roster. Fred and Matty A (I don’t include the other coaches because it’s minimal what they are allowed to even do) have shown nothing in 3 years that should lead anyone to believe they have any idea on how to assemble a competitive roster

Got me to wondering how many teams with first-round picks had losing records. It's unusual, but there has been at least one every year the last 5 years:

2021 Josh Christopher Ariz St. 11-14*

2020 Aaron Nesmith Vanderbilt  11-21

2019 Darius Garland Vanderbilt 9-23

2018 Josh Okogie Georgia Tech 13-19

2017 Markelle Fultz Washington 9-22

* Played with Verge

 

[hhcmatt]

Intervention:

 

Rutgers is a bad sports school. They have no money and their presence here amounts to school with the right level of academics in a market to expand the B1G.

This is Eddie Jordan's record at Rutgers.  Jordan was hired after Dave Rice was fired for throwing basketballs at his player's heads.  Rutgers went through a conference change during his tenure.  Here was his W-L record during that time.

 

Fred Hoiberg is currently 21-65 at Nebraska and 6-49 in conference. I can't understand how even with our lack of history that anyone can think  this is a worse environment than Rutgers. Fred has managed to scrape below the very low bar of the Eddie Jordan era and arguably adding 'better players' has resulted in worse results. 

 

Running this back as is next year it will just be the same.  If Fred wants to play ball to where he'll set up to be fired at a lower cost, that might be workable. Else, just cut bait because we've gone from a series of guys running NIT level teams to historically bad.

 

[brfrad]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

Intervention:

 

Rutgers is a bad sports school. They have no money and their presence here amounts to school with the right level of academics in a market to expand the B1G.

This is Eddie Jordan's record at Rutgers.  Jordan was hired after Dave Rice was fired for throwing basketballs at his player's heads.  Rutgers went through a conference change during his tenure.  Here was his W-L record during that time.

 

Fred Hoiberg is currently 21-65 at Nebraska and 6-49 in conference. I can't understand how even with our lack of history that anyone can think  this is a worse environment than Rutgers. Fred has managed to scrape below the very low bar of the Eddie Jordan era and arguably adding 'better players' has resulted in worse results. 

 

Running this back as is next year it will just be the same.  If Fred wants to play ball to where he'll set up to be fired at a lower cost, that might be workable. Else, just cut bait because we've gone from a series of guys running NIT level teams to historically bad.

 

It's going to come down to if Trev can talk Fred into a lower buyout. If we have to pay Fred the full buyout.   I don't see the firing happening.   The AD lost money last year for the first time in forever.  We have to pay a minimum of $2 million for a new coach.  We are spending a bunch of money on new football facilities.   Basically,  if it wasn't about money, Fred would be gone.

[thrasher31]

2 minutes ago, brfrad said:

It's going to come down to if Trev can talk Fred into a lower buyout. If we have to pay Fred the full buyout.   I don't see the firing happening.   The AD lost money last year for the first time in forever.  We have to pay a minimum of $2 million for a new coach.  We are spending a bunch of money on new football facilities.   Basically,  if it wasn't about money, Fred would be gone.

I do wonder if Fred takes the reduced buyout to just get out of a sinking ship. It's an idea that I've floated in my head. Not ENTIRELY out of the question. It would be a clean slate of a roster next year Essentially with 3 starters for sure gone, if not more. Your top 2 PGs are also gone, the third could also be. 

 

Trev will probably put out a statement very similar to the Frost one (in a sense of coming straight from him) shortly after they get eliminated in the big ten tourney. Right now, my money is on him being back with a new staff. But I also can see a reduced buyout agreement or just a straight up buyout. It's a decision that could cost the AD for years and years. We'll be hearing about paying off Fred for the next 10 years lol. 

 

If there were not financial implications that could cost the department for a long time, this wouldn't be a discussion. I'm still sticking with my gut at this point. 

[Ron Mexico]

On 2/22/2022 at 10:37 AM, NUdiehard said:

 

I will concede that the lack of effort in these recent games has been very disappointing.  No one wants to watch that, ever. 

 

But is it a result of systemic coaching issues?  Maybe.  But because of Fred's prior coaching success, it seems better to give him some benefit of the doubt.  If he is such a pathetic coach who doesn't teach any fundamentals, how did he take an Iowa St. team that had 5 losing seasons prior to him arriving and after one year take them to 4 straight NCAA tourneys with a sweet 16 and (multiple 2nd to 3rd rounds) and in his final year have his best Big 12 conference record of all?  How does that happen if he is a bumbling fool of a coach?

 

At the end of last year, the team had to be shut down for over 3 weeks, and then I think most would agree they gave a valiant effort those last few weeks where they crammed in game after game after game and still had a top 40 defense and I don't recall seeing any quit in them at that time.  Do you?  That was just last year.  Did Fred forget how to motivate players since one year ago?   Are Fred's problems with this year's team "systemic" if he did not have those same problems just last year?

 

Did his team have problems last year?  Absolutely. But the biggest problem was they couldn't score enough.  Problem. But a different problem which was largely a result of a different roster (Banton was an excellent defender and rebounder but couldn't shoot to save his life; now we have Verge and Keisei and Bryce, who are decent/good at scoring, but can't defend). 

 

Fred has proven he can win in a power 5 conference with the right roster.  His incoming recruits look like his best ever.  If you fire Fred, next year is almost guaranteed to be disaster no matter what new coach they bring in because the new recruits will probably bail and the whole roster will have to be turned over on short time frame (like Fred's first year).  So are you really losing much by giving Fred one more year to see what he can do with these new recruits?  If it is a bust, fire him and at least you have the new recruits in house and can try to keep them longer.

 

I ran some numbers for FH's tenure at Nebraska:

We have jwon 21 of 86 total games. 24.4%

 

We have lost 40 of 86 total games by 10pts or more.

 Of 86 total games played we have lost 46.5% by 10pts or more.

 Every time we step out on the court there is a 1 in 2.15 chances of us losing by 10pts or more.

 

We have lost 25 of 86 total games by 15pts or more. 29.1%

 Of 86 total games played we have lost 29.7% by 15pts or more.

 Every time we step out on the court there is a 1 in 3.4 chances of us losing by 15pts or more.

 

We have lost 15 of 86 total games by 20pts or more. 

 Of 86 total games played we have lost 17.4% by 20pts or more.

 Every time we step out on the court there is a 1 in 5.75 chances of us  losing by 20pts or more.

 

I'm working on same numbers for Miles as comparison. Will post those later.

[royalfan]

He did inherit a complete unmitigated disaster.   That has to be taken into consideration.  As does the fact that it is still an unmitigated disaster.  These records and worst this and worst that almost have to take out the first year.  What he did wrong was believing he could put a band aid on it very quickly and be decent, rather than take it in the ass the first year(which we obviously did anyway) and make no progression towards the future.   Then he did the same thing year two.  Then he kind of did the same thing year 3., but we are now getting some high school kids at least.  I can certainly understand wanting to move on.  I do, just not quite as adamant about it as some here are.  

Edited February 24, 2022 by royalfan

[hskr4life]

What’s bad is that the 15-20 point losses aren’t slowing down.  Would also be interested in how many 10, 15, and 20 point losses we’ve had each year.

[HuskerFever]

10 minutes ago, royalfan said:

These records and worst this and worst that almost have to take out the first year. 

 

Take out his entire first season. He's still 14-40.

 

Worst Winning Record at Nebraska (excl. 2019-2020):

1. Fred Hoiberg: 26%, 14-40 (4-31) (2020-2022)

2. Adolf J. Lewandowski: 28%, 24-63 (17-33) (1940-1945)

3. L. F. "Pop" Klein: 35%, 7-13 (3-7) (1945-1946)

4. T.J. Hewiat: 38%, 6-10 (6-2) (1909-1910)

5. Jerry Bush: 38%, 81-132 (39-79) (1954-1963)

[Ron Mexico]

20 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

What’s bad is that the 15-20 point losses aren’t slowing down.  Would also be interested in how many 10, 15, and 20 point losses we’ve had each year.

Here you go:

SEASON	TOT NUM GMS	TOT WIN	TOT LOSS	LOSS DIFF>10	LOSS DIFF>15	LOSS DIFF>20	LOSS DIFF>25	LOSS DIFF>30
2019/20	32	7	25	17	12	6	2	1
2020/21	27	7	20	12	6	3	2	2
2021/22	27	7	20	11	7	6	4	2

[hskr4life]

4 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

Here you go:

SEASON	TOT NUM GMS	TOT WIN	TOT LOSS	LOSS DIFF>10	LOSS DIFF>15	LOSS DIFF>20	LOSS DIFF>25	LOSS DIFF>30
2019/20	32	7	25	17	12	6	2	1
2020/21	27	7	20	12	6	3	2	2
2021/22	27	7	20	11	7	6	4	2

So we got a little better last year and have officially taken a step back this year.  We still got like 4-5 more games to go too.