uneblinstu's postgame chatter: vol 14; ed 3 - vs. Creighton

[HB]

1 hour ago, ConkintheCorner said:

Will say these refs were not calling much of anything out there compared to the previous games..  definitely let the players play.  Not saying it’s an excuse but we got to learn to adjust

So soft. 

[hhcmatt]

I think I get the Ed deal. He didn't play because he looked bad in practice against what we throw out at him.

He looks good vs teams like Sam Houston because they don't possess length. Creighton had length and he looked outmatched. 

Seems like he should be in for a good game against an undersized Idaho St team.

[hskr4life]

56 minutes ago, The Polish Rifle said:

I had a blast watching Bolt's Boys punch the #1 team in the mouth and embrace a challenge. Basketball and Football have looked nutless for a couple years now, lets see if Hoiberg's boys have some dog in them - I'm guessing no, but never know. 

 

Fred and Frost are a combined 30-74 in their coaching tenures.  I know that both are "rebuilding" but that is rough rough rough.

 

Tim Miles First 3 Years- 47 Wins

Doc Sadler First 3 Years- 55 Wins

 

If we WIN OUT this year and I'm saying alllll the way out and win a natty, Fred will be sitting at just 52 wins after 3 years.  Just brutal.

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, brfrad said:

For the first time since Hoiberg has been here, I am confident in our free throw shooting, and saying getting to the line 9 times is not good for us.  We went the first two games, making 49 free throws, while the opponents attempted 30 free throws.  

 

Really this is why Miles had so much trouble with Creighton; on average the Jays don't put you on the line a ton.  For some matchups having Bryce and company drive into contact will have success.

[Faux Mike Peltz]

26 minutes ago, coughunter said:

He did have injuries in Chicago which did hurt him.  I think he is a good x's and o's coach when it comes to scheme and plays but his development and finding the right players is gonna hurt him.  His in game coaching isnt much to be desired.  

I’ve watched every game from start to finish since Fred’s been our coach, and I wouldn’t use “good” and x’s and o’s together. There have been a couple of memorable out of bounds plays that have sprung an open look, but he doesn’t really have a system, so to speak. Coach Mac does, and guys fill into the system. Fred changes his offensive philosophy based on his personnel. Give me a consistent system and identity all day over individual minded athletic four stars…

[FredsSlacks]

crazy that keon edwards isn't good enough to play on this team. we desperately need a 6'7 wing and he's literally the only one on the roster.

[hskr4life]

On a side note-- the B1G looks like absolute trash in the games so far.  Michigan loses to Seaton Hall tonight.

[HuskerBB]

Depressing - I think we have better players but Creighton clearly had a better team.

 

I can only assume that Fred is too attached to an NBA type offense and needs to adjust back to college.   In the NBA you play 2 or 3 man offensive systems that start with dribble drives.   But we don't have NBA players.   Creighton runs an offense that had 5 guys moving all the time - with lots of off ball screens to get the offense moving.   We don't do anything until someone starts a dribble drive and I don't think we ever set a screen for anyone who does not have the ball.   Fred needs to spend some time watching this film and find a way to get some semblance of the ball movement - and player rotation that you see in good college offenses.  At one point I thought we must think we are playing football - can only have 1 guy in "motion' at a time :).

 

I actually think maybe Verge learned something tonight.  He was very frustrated -  but I think that was due to him sort of knowing he should not be doing what he was doing -but also not knowing what else to do.  I understand the people saying he is not a PG because he certainly is not trying to run an offense that gets everyone involved which is what you want your PG to do.   But - I sure don't see how he was a D-1 "shooting guard" either because he looks like the last guy on the team we would want taking jump shots.   I actually think he has PG skills (ball handling and passing ability) but he just doesn't know how to play PG - and that is on Fred - and Fred's "offense".    Verge is really very good at beating his guy off the dribble - but after watching the CU and West Ill game films they also know that as long as you cover the screener to take away that pass off the pick and roll and help off enough to contest the shot at the bucket you have taken away his game completely.   That said I don't know whether he is 100% to blame for not making the pass to anyone else - because when we run that pick and roll the other 3 guys just stand around watching and none of them seem to be trying to get themselves open.

 

Bryce is extremely talented in some ways - but also very raw and lacking in others.   If we could get him to play as hard as his brother does we might have something.   He really struggles on the defensive end and while his athleticism gets him some rebounds his rebounding fundamentals are really lacking.   I am kind of hoping that Trey will really push him while he has to sit and watch now and get him to understand that playing at this level requires 100% effort 100% of the time no matter how gifted  you are athletically.   The most frustrating thing though is how he disappears at the end of games.   He had 25 points in the Western Illinois game - but did nothing in the last 5 minutes of that game.   Tonight with 6 minutes left I told my friend that if Bryce is really an NBA player he needs to take over the game now.   But he barely even touched the ball the rest of the game.   Obviously a lot of that is on Verge not sharing anything.   We need to make Verge understand that his (and most everyone else's) primary job really needs to be to find a way to help get the most out of  the skills that Bryce has.   Particularly at the end of close games he needs to be the one taking a leading role in games.   That said - I understand it is his 3rd college game - but great players are not afraid to put the team on their back.

 

I don't get the criticism of Walker.   He did struggle at times tonight - but the CU big guy is actually a handful - much bigger and very disciplined.   What I liked is for the first time this year we let Walker do what he perhaps does best on offense - get the ball in the high post and pass to cutters.   He did that quite a bit last year - but we have not done that at all this year until a couple times tonight.   I don't care that he did not score much - his scoring should only come in getting 2nd chance points and passes off pick and rolls (if we ever get to a point where the opponent does not focus on taking that away).   Walker is undersized a bit - but he does play hard.   I do think Andre needs to be in the rotation and he does good things - primarily bringing alot of energy to the floor.   But he really struggled in the first half at times also and just is not nearly as sound fundamentally as Walker at this point.

 

Overall I can't say that I expected to win going in - but I also think the reason we did not is almost fully due to our inability or unwillingness to play as a team.   That is on Fred to a large extent - but the players need to realize that as well. 

[OmahaHusker]

50 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Really this is why Miles had so much trouble with Creighton; on average the Jays don't put you on the line a ton.  For some matchups having Bryce and company drive into contact will have success.

This is no joke. McDermott was scolding dudes for fouling tonight and pulled that one freshman after two fouls for what seemed like most of the game. Theyre all about making you finish for yourself at the rim. 

[hhcscott]

The missed layups are the ones that kill me. How do you hit the side, bottom, under backboard, so consistently?

 

I don't understand how the same scenario of ridiculous runs of 15 or 20 to nothing happen every year against Creighton. 

 

I don't understand the coaching decisions.

I don't understand the recruiting.

I don't understand the offense.

I don't understand the rebounding.

 

All of which apparently qualifies me for a $3.5 million base salary.

 

 

 

[Nebrasketball1979]

4 hours ago, hhcscott said:

The missed layups are the ones that kill me. How do you hit the side, bottom, under backboard, so consistently?

 

I don't understand how the same scenario of ridiculous runs of 15 or 20 to nothing happen every year against Creighton. 

 

I don't understand the coaching decisions.

I don't understand the recruiting.

I don't understand the offense.

I don't understand the rebounding.

 

All of which apparently qualifies me for a $3.5 million base salary.

 

 

 

Some would argue that most of your qualifications could earn you up to $5M/year so don't short change yourself!

[HolyBobpilgrimage]

9 hours ago, REDZONEDAN said:

Are all Creighton fans a**holes, or just the ones sitting around us?  Classless group has of fans.  Must be a CU thing.

They tend to be like that. It feels like Creighton has the Duke disease-- private school breeds an air of false superiority and looking down at everyone else,  and the fake ones usually talk the loudest. Even if I and many of us would readily admit we're little brother, never as good as CU, they won't shut up. I hate it. You just want to see the proud humbled and to learn a lesson.

 

I was just shocked last night to find out a long time friend and coworker is a Creighton fan and went to games at one point... The meming and teasing was ruthless after the game tonight, and I was disappointed to find out he has this character defect, lol. Guess I shoulda seen that coming, he's a patriots fan, Maryland fan.... Yeah. He's a good guy but I'm having my doubts he's just not a bit of a mass-hole.

[Nebrasketballer]

9 hours ago, brfrad said:

For the first time since Hoiberg has been here, I am confident in our free throw shooting, and saying getting to the line 9 times is not good for us.  We went the first two games, making 49 free throws, while the opponents attempted 30 free throws.  

 

Doc needs to go to work with Verge and Bryce.  They play way too straight up on defense.  If brfrad sees it, the coaches have to see it.  That needs to get addressed.  It was no surprise they got beat off the dribble.

 

The game was lost with 16 minutes to go when we are down 1, and get the ball.  We get an offensive foul on Bryce.  We let Creighton have 3 shots the next trip, finally grab a rebound, miss a shot.  We have 2 chances to take the lead, and fail.  After 3 1/2 minutes, we go down 6.  

 

Edwards had one of the poorest decisions I have seen, and no surprise he gets 0 minutes in the 2nd half.  We have the ball with 23 seconds left in the first half, down 3.  We have a chance to go down 1 or tied at half, and he decides to shoot a 3 with 15 seconds left.  

 

My starting line-up is:

 

Kobe

Verge

Bryce

Wilcher

Andre

 

Kobe needs to be our main PG and Verge needs to play off the ball.  Verge is NOT a PG.

 

Bryce was bound to struggle.  Needs to figure out how not to force shots.  Backdoors should have been the name of his game, all night.  

 

I am not given up on this team, yet.  We need to win these next 4 games by double digits.

Verge should not be starting. He’s the Biggs/Allen of this team and is in the way of the rest of the team developing chemistry. I think this would be a more successful lineup:

 

1- Webster

2- Wilcher

3- Bryce

4- Lat

5- Andre

[demone]

After sleeping on it, I do not feel any better about this team or the direction of the program. In fact, I might feel a little worse.

 

During last night's presser, Hoiberg said he was still 100% confident in Alonzo Verge. This, despite a group of fans large enough to make "boos" heard in the arena feeling the same way many of us do about his hero-ball approach. There are times to stand by your beliefs but when it's obvious to even the casual fan that a change needs to be made, you now have a credibility problem. Just ask the football coach how things have worked out with his 4-year QB.

 

I hate feeling this way after 3 games, but here we are again. I don't recall being more excited about a team than I was for this year and until now, I've not questioned my belief that Fred would get this done. But as the years of failure and disappointment continue to pile up, the emotional investment gas tank hits empty pretty quickly.

 

I'll watch until I can't take the dribbling exhibitions any longer. I will hope it turns. But my expectations at this point have hit zero and my belief in Fred is trending down. 

 

 

[busticket]

My assessment of Verge hasn’t changed.  5-15 with 1 assist.  I am starting to wonder what Fred is looking for in a PG.  I honestly thought our offense would resemble what Creighton looked like.  I don’t recall any of his ISU teams looking like this.  I felt year 3 is the year he needs to show significant progress.  Early returns not good but it is a long season….But I think the Verge experiment needs to end for us to make a move.

 

someone said it earlier but I can’t believe this is where we are after hiring Frost and Hoiberg.  Thank goodness we have Will Bolt.

Edited November 17, 2021 by busticket

[jimmykc]

I predicted the team with the better 3 pt. % would win. That's the only positive thing I could come up with this morning. 

[Handy Johnson]

How much do you think an autographed Cam Mack hat is worth these days…?

[basketballjones]

10 hours ago, coughunter said:

He seems over his head.  He seems like too much of an NBA coach.  I wonder if having assistants that arent in game coaches hurts him.

Listen... I am the first to say that I am a failed, losing-record coach. However, and not to toot my own horn here, but I have taken over some pretty bad, losing programs and it didn't take more than a month to see exactly what we were working on in practice come game time. Win or lose. 

We literally look like we are uncoached. Can anyone tell me what they think our defensive principles are? What our drive and help rules are? What our rebounding rules are on offense (let alone defense...)?

We look like a team coached by a dad who watched YouTube clips of an offense he wants to run, and watched an NBA video on, "defensive rotations," (the only thing we do marginally well). 

[NUdiehard]

8 hours ago, HuskerBB said:

Depressing - I think we have better players but Creighton clearly had a better team.

 

I can only assume that Fred is too attached to an NBA type offense and needs to adjust back to college.   In the NBA you play 2 or 3 man offensive systems that start with dribble drives.   But we don't have NBA players.   Creighton runs an offense that had 5 guys moving all the time - with lots of off ball screens to get the offense moving.   We don't do anything until someone starts a dribble drive and I don't think we ever set a screen for anyone who does not have the ball.   Fred needs to spend some time watching this film and find a way to get some semblance of the ball movement - and player rotation that you see in good college offenses.  At one point I thought we must think we are playing football - can only have 1 guy in "motion' at a time :).

 

I actually think maybe Verge learned something tonight.  He was very frustrated -  but I think that was due to him sort of knowing he should not be doing what he was doing -but also not knowing what else to do.  I understand the people saying he is not a PG because he certainly is not trying to run an offense that gets everyone involved which is what you want your PG to do.   But - I sure don't see how he was a D-1 "shooting guard" either because he looks like the last guy on the team we would want taking jump shots.   I actually think he has PG skills (ball handling and passing ability) but he just doesn't know how to play PG - and that is on Fred - and Fred's "offense".    Verge is really very good at beating his guy off the dribble - but after watching the CU and West Ill game films they also know that as long as you cover the screener to take away that pass off the pick and roll and help off enough to contest the shot at the bucket you have taken away his game completely.   That said I don't know whether he is 100% to blame for not making the pass to anyone else - because when we run that pick and roll the other 3 guys just stand around watching and none of them seem to be trying to get themselves open.

 

Bryce is extremely talented in some ways - but also very raw and lacking in others.   If we could get him to play as hard as his brother does we might have something.   He really struggles on the defensive end and while his athleticism gets him some rebounds his rebounding fundamentals are really lacking.   I am kind of hoping that Trey will really push him while he has to sit and watch now and get him to understand that playing at this level requires 100% effort 100% of the time no matter how gifted  you are athletically.   The most frustrating thing though is how he disappears at the end of games.   He had 25 points in the Western Illinois game - but did nothing in the last 5 minutes of that game.   Tonight with 6 minutes left I told my friend that if Bryce is really an NBA player he needs to take over the game now.   But he barely even touched the ball the rest of the game.   Obviously a lot of that is on Verge not sharing anything.   We need to make Verge understand that his (and most everyone else's) primary job really needs to be to find a way to help get the most out of  the skills that Bryce has.   Particularly at the end of close games he needs to be the one taking a leading role in games.   That said - I understand it is his 3rd college game - but great players are not afraid to put the team on their back.

 

I don't get the criticism of Walker.   He did struggle at times tonight - but the CU big guy is actually a handful - much bigger and very disciplined.   What I liked is for the first time this year we let Walker do what he perhaps does best on offense - get the ball in the high post and pass to cutters.   He did that quite a bit last year - but we have not done that at all this year until a couple times tonight.   I don't care that he did not score much - his scoring should only come in getting 2nd chance points and passes off pick and rolls (if we ever get to a point where the opponent does not focus on taking that away).   Walker is undersized a bit - but he does play hard.   I do think Andre needs to be in the rotation and he does good things - primarily bringing alot of energy to the floor.   But he really struggled in the first half at times also and just is not nearly as sound fundamentally as Walker at this point.

 

Overall I can't say that I expected to win going in - but I also think the reason we did not is almost fully due to our inability or unwillingness to play as a team.   That is on Fred to a large extent - but the players need to realize that as well. 

Good thoughts.  As for the game last night, in that early Creighton run, Verge and Bryce and others tried to attack the rim and Creighton's 7 footer altered all their shots.  It took us too long to realize this and adjust. 

 

 Regarding Walker, I agree he tries hard, but that isn't enough.  His problem is that he is only 6'8" (not really tall enough to be a power 5 center) but the only reason he plays center is because he is not skilled enough to play PF.  He can't dribble, he can't shoot and he's not even an explosive leaper.  So all he can do on offense is pass and make an occasional layup.  But the much bigger problem with him is that on defense he isn't a rim protector.  Whenever he was in the game, Creighton would just keep attacking the basket and getting easy layups because Walker can't rim protect.  And I was even more disappointed to see Creighton's rather gangly big man get such low post position on him multiple times for easy lay-ins.  If nothing else, Walker needs to use his strength to keep that guy out of the paint.  We were already a poor defensive team going into that game, and now that Trey is out, we are a very poor defensive team.  Our guards and wings get beat and the only possible mitigation is having a rim protector to prevent the layup line. Andre is has his flaws.  He is very raw and a bit out of control and sometimes try to do too much.  But if Fred could get in his head and tell him to just play extremely hard on defense and protect the rim at all costs, rebound and then kick the ball out, he could be effective in his role.  At least then teams would not get easy layups all game long.  Plus, we may be at the point of punting on this season and just trying to develop guys for the proverbial "next year".  Walker is a 5th year senior.  Ed is still a freshman.  Give the minutes to Ed and let him grow and develop, this season is already lost anyway.

 

I don't have much to add about the PG spot and I don't know what to do about Verge.  The most disappointing thing by far is that we are in year 3 with Fred and he failed to get a true PG.

 

[hhcmatt]

7 Huskers recorded an assist last night, a season high.

This is your polish a turd stat of the game.

[millerhusker]

8 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

7 Huskers recorded an assist last night, a season high.

This is your polish a turd stat of the game.

Also only had 7 turnovers as a team and no player had more than 1. 

[hhcmatt]

48 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Listen... I am the first to say that I am a failed, losing-record coach. However, and not to toot my own horn here, but I have taken over some pretty bad, losing programs and it didn't take more than a month to see exactly what we were working on in practice come game time. Win or lose. 

We literally look like we are uncoached. Can anyone tell me what they think our defensive principles are? What our drive and help rules are? What our rebounding rules are on offense (let alone defense...)?

We look like a team coached by a dad who watched YouTube clips of an offense he wants to run, and watched an NBA video on, "defensive rotations," (the only thing we do marginally well). 

 

[uneblinstu]

On the radio this morning, the talk was about how this was a culture game, more than anything. Creighton is young and talented. I don't think they're less talented than NU. They're probably more talented, but they're less experienced in some ways, too. But CU replaced nearly every top contributor from last year's team and they were the ones that handled that atmosphere better last night. That goes back to the culture that has been established there. I think that's what Coach Fred *wants* to develop here, too. He touted that as why he ran his system instead of trying to win games in year one and praised the players on the roster for laying that foundation. But Derrick Walker it he only one that was in the program at the time. And he hasn't been all that great so far this season. Hard to hold together a culture if you're turning over the roster so much. Hopefully some continuity over the next couple of years will get it there, but it's not there yet. Coach Mac has a decade of track laid. 

 

- I liked most of what I saw from Wilcher last night.

- I liked what Webster brought to the floor. I thought he brought a calming affect when things were spiraling out of control in the first half.

- Not sure I agree with Ed being ready to start. He's got some talent, but he's also still very raw. Not sure what you do in the paint. The smaller lineup was the one that brought the team back, so maybe somewhat diminished roles for the front court is something we see more of.

- I wonder where McPherson is in his development. I wonder if he gets a look with Trey going down.

- And man, you just have to feel for Trey. I was liking how the offense looked when he was running the show, too.

- Thought Bryce got a big lesson in high major basketball last night. Excited to see how he adjusts, because I think he will.

- I did like that the team fought back after being down big. I hope that serves as a marker for them that they're capable. As someone else said in the thread, I do think there's a good team somewhere on this roster. But the start of this season and night has sure been a gut punch.

[uneblinstu]

Also, I think the Juco transition struggle is very real for Tominaga right now.

[throwback]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

Listen... I am the first to say that I am a failed, losing-record coach. However, and not to toot my own horn here, but I have taken over some pretty bad, losing programs and it didn't take more than a month to see exactly what we were working on in practice come game time. Win or lose. 

We literally look like we are uncoached. Can anyone tell me what they think our defensive principles are? What our drive and help rules are? What our rebounding rules are on offense (let alone defense...)?

We look like a team coached by a dad who watched YouTube clips of an offense he wants to run, and watched an NBA video on, "defensive rotations," (the only thing we do marginally well). 

Couldn't agree more. Defensive fundamentals are horrible. You can't rebound when you don't put yourself in position to rebound in the time before the shot goes up. Or we're scrambling because a perimeter player's terrible defensive footwork allows penetration, so no one is in position to rebound.

 

We look like a team that spent the 6-week preseason running half-assed scrimmages and doing little else.