What will our rotation look like next year?

[busticket]

The one thing I know about rotations is they rarely have more than 8 players by the time teams are deep into conference play.  I remember Tulane with the “posse” having 10 players consistently play, but that is it in my recollection for a team going that deep. It mainly has to do with getting the chemistry right.  
 

With that said, you can make a credible argument for 11 players possibly being in the rotation.  If Lakes has his 3 point shot back he could have a role.  I think we may be more surprised by what 2-3 players end up NOT being in the rotation.

[hhcmatt]

Depth is a fickle thing.

 

In 2017-18 we had enough depth where Jack McVeigh, a future Australian pro, was famously relegated to the bench. Since then every scholarship player and some walk-ons have made their way into the rotation, unless they were Elijah Wood.

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

49 minutes ago, busticket said:

The one thing I know about rotations is they rarely have more than 8 players by the time teams are deep into conference play.  I remember Tulane with the “posse” having 10 players consistently play, but that is it in my recollection for a team going that deep. It mainly has to do with getting the chemistry right.  
 

With that said, you can make a credible argument for 11 players possibly being in the rotation.  If Lakes has his 3 point shot back he could have a role.  I think we may be more surprised by what 2-3 players end up NOT being in the rotation.

 

Part of that, though, is tempo, and part of it is the quality of your depth. Virginia is notoriously slow tempo and their 5 starters last year averaged (AVERAGED!) 31 minutes. No one else had more than 15. And there were games in Miles' first season where we didn't sub at all in the 2nd half because you look at the bench and you can't find a single player who is better fresh than a gassed David Rivers or Rey Gallegos. It was that bad.

 

I don't know what Fred did at ISU, although it's my understanding he sometimes went as deep as 9 in his regular rotation.

 

It'll be interesting to see how big a drop-off there is after the top 7 or 8 players. My hunch is that we have the quality of depth that we can go as deep as the coach wants to go and so this year should give us a real good insight into how deep Fred likes to tap into his bench.

[Fullbacksympathy]

4 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Part of that, though, is tempo, and part of it is the quality of your depth. Virginia is notoriously slow tempo and their 5 starters last year averaged (AVERAGED!) 31 minutes. No one else had more than 15. And there were games in Miles' first season where we didn't sub at all in the 2nd half because you look at the bench and you can't find a single player who is better fresh than a gassed David Rivers or Rey Gallegos. It was that bad.

 

I don't know what Fred did at ISU, although it's my understanding he sometimes went as deep as 9 in his regular rotation.

 

It'll be interesting to see how big a drop-off there is after the top 7 or 8 players. My hunch is that we have the quality of depth that we can go as deep as the coach wants to go and so this year should give us a real good insight into how deep Fred likes to tap into his bench.

 

That really is the central question with subs.  What I'm wondering is, if on any given night, are we going to have bench players who are better fresh than the guy on the court.  That's kind of how it's looking to me, especially in the front court.  Backcourt I'm guessing is a done deal with the Macs and Verge starting.  Front court depends on what Fred wants to do philosophically.  But even with the three guards, I could see days where Tominaga or Kobe comes in and stays in because they're hitting everything.    

[hhcmatt]

Obviously Eduardo will be a part of the rotation but interesting that he's firing off Keisei and Keon here

[49r]

THIS.  IS.  OCTOBER.

[millerhusker]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

Obviously Eduardo will be a part of the rotation but interesting that he's firing off Keisei and Keon here

I might get chastised for this on here, but I don’t think it’s obvious Eduardo will be part of the regular rotation. Only so many minutes to go around and Fred has made it clear he likes Wilhelm at the 5. I wouldn’t be surprised if Eduardo was a situational minutes player, like Okeke was when Roby and Copeland took up the majority of the minutes at the 4/5. If Eduardo is getting significant consistent playing time, I think that means he’ll be vastly improved from last year. Which would be awesome. 

[Art Vandalay]

45 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

I might get chastised for this on here, but I don’t think it’s obvious Eduardo will be part of the regular rotation. Only so many minutes to go around and Fred has made it clear he likes Wilhelm at the 5. I wouldn’t be surprised if Eduardo was a situational minutes player, like Okeke was when Roby and Copeland took up the majority of the minutes at the 4/5. If Eduardo is getting significant consistent playing time, I think that means he’ll be vastly improved from last year. Which would be awesome. 

Agree, we probably will play 9 at the most come Big10 play. Kobe would be my other guess at limited minutes even though I like him a lot

[kldm64]

Remember the days when it was very easy to predict who the starters would be and the rotation?  

[49r]

38 minutes ago, kldm64 said:

Remember the days when it was very easy to predict who the starters would be and the rotation?  

 

Hell, I'm pretty sure I couldn't name every scholarship guy on the roster from memory at this point.

[Norm Peterson]

Just now, 49r said:

 

Hell, I'm pretty sure I couldn't name every scholarship guy on the roster from memory at this point.

 

Go in order of jersey number. It's easier that way.

[Norm Peterson]

Rothstein is actually a bit tepid in his praise. He thinks Verge and the two McGowens brothers are All-Conference caliber as a backcourt, but like us, he's not sure how we'll defend and rebound.

 

His rotation of Verge, the two McGowens, Mayen and Walker followed by Keisei, CJ and Keon leaves out ...

 

frickin' Kobe Webster, Eduardo Andre and Wilhelm "The Flying Dutchman" Breidenbach, whom he also praises.

 

I mean, if that doesn't scream "Hey, this squad is deeper than your typical Husker team" I don't know what does.

 

If you trim the rotation to 8 players, it's going to leave some quality guys on the bench not getting minutes.

[aphilso1]

3 hours ago, millerhusker said:

I might get chastised for this on here, but I don’t think it’s obvious Eduardo will be part of the regular rotation. Only so many minutes to go around and Fred has made it clear he likes Wilhelm at the 5. I wouldn’t be surprised if Eduardo was a situational minutes player, like Okeke was when Roby and Copeland took up the majority of the minutes at the 4/5. If Eduardo is getting significant consistent playing time, I think that means he’ll be vastly improved from last year. Which would be awesome. 

 

This is a good take.  Although given the league we play in, I could see Eduardo still getting decent minutes on a lot of nights even if he doesn't crack the 8 or 9 man rotation.  You gotta have a platoon of big bodies to throw at teams like Illinois and Purdue and Ohio State.  It's not a matter of "if" your bigs get in foul trouble, but "when."

[huskerbill85]

10 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

Rothstein is actually a bit tepid in his praise. He thinks Verge and the two McGowens brothers are All-Conference caliber as a backcourt, but like us, he's not sure how we'll defend and rebound.

 

His rotation of Verge, the two McGowens, Mayen and Walker followed by Keisei, CJ and Keon leaves out ...

 

frickin' Kobe Webster, Eduardo Andre and Wilhelm "The Flying Dutchman" Breidenbach, whom he also praises.

 

I mean, if that doesn't scream "Hey, this squad is deeper than your typical Husker team" I don't know what does.

 

If you trim the rotation to 8 players, it's going to leave some quality guys on the bench not getting minutes.

I dont want to get ahead of myself here as this season hasnt even started but I'm all in. This team looks deep just think what the season after looks like with the studs we already have committed and that's not to say Fred wont get a good transfer player too. This is beautiful I've never been this excited for Husker basketball. 

[Fullbacksympathy]

15 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

Rothstein is actually a bit tepid in his praise. He thinks Verge and the two McGowens brothers are All-Conference caliber as a backcourt, but like us, he's not sure how we'll defend and rebound.

 

His rotation of Verge, the two McGowens, Mayen and Walker followed by Keisei, CJ and Keon leaves out ...

 

frickin' Kobe Webster, Eduardo Andre and Wilhelm "The Flying Dutchman" Breidenbach, whom he also praises.

 

I mean, if that doesn't scream "Hey, this squad is deeper than your typical Husker team" I don't know what does.

 

If you trim the rotation to 8 players, it's going to leave some quality guys on the bench not getting minutes.

No way Wilhelm stays off the court, IMO, based on what I saw last night.  I think he’s a 5, and there will be plenty of nights he’s our best 5.  He and Lat as the 4-5 could create massive problems for defenses. 
 

Keisei will take over some games.  I’ve never seen shooting like that in my life.  Warmups through the game it was absolutely freakish.  

[Fullbacksympathy]

What I’m most excited about is there probably won’t be a night that someone isn’t cooking from deep.  There’s just too many good shooters on the roster/offensive skill to go team-cold anymore.  Keon, CJ, Bryce, Trey, Kobe, and maybe Verge can all get it going from deep as well.  But the best pure strokes I saw were Keisei and Wilhelm.  I’d probably put Lat in the latter category too but he didn’t play last night.  
 

Another hot take:  Keon is a better athlete than Bryce—stronger and more explosive and maybe a better 3pt shooter.  I don’t think he’s a better player as Bryce has pretty good handles, but don’t sleep on that kid.  He’s high energy.  
 

Overall I was way more impressed with the newcomers than I thought I would be.  

[Swan88]

 

[GoBigRed]

21 hours ago, millerhusker said:

I might get chastised for this on here, but I don’t think it’s obvious Eduardo will be part of the regular rotation. Only so many minutes to go around and Fred has made it clear he likes Wilhelm at the 5. I wouldn’t be surprised if Eduardo was a situational minutes player, like Okeke was when Roby and Copeland took up the majority of the minutes at the 4/5. If Eduardo is getting significant consistent playing time, I think that means he’ll be vastly improved from last year. Which would be awesome. 

No chastising here. You're 100% right. Eduardo's role on this team will be to contribute if someone is in foul trouble. He may be fairly skilled with a lot of potential but we have other dudes who are ready to play right now that do things Fred wants better. Wilhelm is one of them. Even in the short highlight clip from last night Wilhelm had a dunk, a 3 pointer and a put-back layup. Eduardo is a great player to have on the bench if Walker/Wilhelm are in foul trouble or injured. But I don't see us forcing him into the short rotation especially considering he's missed time with illness and is likely behind the other guys in conditioning. Don't get me wrong, tons of potential, but some good players won't be in the top 8 or 9 and somebody has to be 10 or 11.

[Huskerpapa]

It is going to be interesting.  There are literally positive talking points on every player.  But there are a few issues as well.  

That said, it looks like we have 3 players vying for playing time at the 5. Briedenbach may also play at the 5 in small lineups; but he appears to be a 4 and will compete with Lat for playing time there...and Walker could also play the 4 in big lineups. 

Good lord, this team has a lot of flexibility and depth. 

No one is going to talk much about Oleg, but he is bigger and more talented than I thought.  One example was a two or three minute stretch where he was dribbling two balls.  Not a big thing...but it was a pleasant surprise. 

Yeah...there is certainly reason to be excited about thus team; I just want to try to control my runaway expectations.

[Faux Mike Peltz]

What’s amusing to me has been when the Huskers IG or other social media posts a short clip of Tominaga hitting a three in practice, there’s always a guy who lives on lays potato chips and pizza (nothing wrong with that) chime in that they themselves’ can also hit open threes, and “let’s see him do it in a game”

I mean, most guys commenting wouldn’t successfully make it up and down the court more than a few times…

[fr8-train]

 

 

 

It is exciting to see the depth and flexiblity of the roster.  Here's my estimate of average distribution of minutes for the non-conference portion of the schedule, with the expectation that the rotation will tightened during conference play.  I could see Lakes get some opportunities and maybe McPherson doesn't get as much.  In addition, I also think there will be the element of running with the hot hand. 

 

			1	2	3	4	5	Total
1	Verge, Alonzo		24					24
2	McGowens, Trey		4	22				26
3	McGowens, Bryce			4	20			24
4	Mayen, Lat					24		24
5	Walker, Derrick						22	22
6	Webster, Kobe		8	4				12
7	McPherson, Quaran		4					4
8	Tominaga, Keisei			10				10
9	Wilcher, CJ				6	8		14
10	Edwards, Keon				14			14
11	Breidenbach, Wilhelm					8	8	16
12	Andre, Eduardo						10	10
			40	40	40	40	40	200

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2021 by fr8-train

[GoBigRed]

11 minutes ago, fr8-train said:

 

 

 

It is exciting to see the depth and flexiblity of the roster.  Here's my estimate of average distribution of minutes for the non-conference portion of the schedule, with the expectation that the rotation will tightened during conference play.  I could see Lakes get some opportunities and maybe McPherson doesn't get as much.  In addition, I also think there will be the element of running with the hot hand. 

 

			1	2	3	4	5	Total
1	Verge, Alonzo		24					24
2	McGowens, Trey		4	22				26
3	McGowens, Bryce			4	20			24
4	Mayen, Lat					24		24
5	Walker, Derrick						22	22
6	Webster, Kobe		8	4				12
7	McPherson, Quaran		4					4
8	Tominaga, Keisei			10				10
9	Wilcher, CJ				6	8		14
10	Edwards, Keon				14			14
11	Breidenbach, Wilhelm					8	8	16
12	Andre, Eduardo						10	10
			40	40	40	40	40	200

 

 

 

 

 

Goes to show how tough it will be distributing minutes on this team. Any casual fan watching last night if you told them “oh yeah this guy lighting it up…he’ll play 10 minutes per game.” They’d be like how…..? His defense must be absolutely terrible (which I don’t think it will be. Not awesome, but he’ll work hard enough. That clip of him on verge showed he takes it seriously, even in a scrimmage setting.) But whose minutes does he take? Who knows. I think Lakes and McPherson are going to find anything but junk time minutes tough to come by. Other than that I have no idea. If anything this will be a year where if you don’t have it or you do will determine everything. If Keisei comes in and goes 0-3 in 4 minutes, may not see him again. If he’s shooting like last night, he may play 25-30 minutes. Depth. Options. Don’t have to ride out struggling performances just because you don’t have anyone better. It will be crazy fun. 

[jayschool]

Chris Basnett's observations from Pro Day:

* The first 10 on the court for 5-on-5 drills looked like this: Alonzo Verge, Trey McGowens, Bryce McGowens, Lat Mayen and Derrick Walker on one squad, with Kobe Webster, Keisei Tominaga, C.J. Wilcher, Wilhelm Breidenbach and Eduardo Andre on the other. That left scholarship players Lakes, Quaran McPherson and Oleg Kojenets on a team with walk-ons Sam Hoiberg and Jackson Cronin.

* DePaul transfer Keon Edwards was in his practice gear but didn't participate in the workout after playing in Friday's Opening Night event. It was the opposite for Mayen, who sat out Opening Night, but was active Tuesday morning. Walk-ons Chris McGraw and Jace Piatkowski also didn't take part in the workout.

[75unlgrad]

On 10/2/2021 at 12:53 PM, Huskerpapa said:

It is going to be interesting.  There are literally positive talking points on every player.  But there are a few issues as well.  

That said, it looks like we have 3 players vying for playing time at the 5. Briedenbach may also play at the 5 in small lineups; but he appears to be a 4 and will compete with Lat for playing time there...and Walker could also play the 4 in big lineups. 

Good lord, this team has a lot of flexibility and depth. 

No one is going to talk much about Oleg, but he is bigger and more talented than I thought.  One example was a two or three minute stretch where he was dribbling two balls.  Not a big thing...but it was a pleasant surprise. 

Yeah...there is certainly reason to be excited about thus team; I just want to try to control my runaway expectations.

No!!  I can no longer control my runaway expectations!!  THIS YEAR is the start of something BIG.  Fred will 'turn the corner' and have the Huskers in the top half of the conference for years to come.  I love the quality and quantity of talent in this year's freshman class (McGowens, *Edwards, *Wilcher, *Andre, Breidenbach, Kojenets, and McPherson).  I love the direction of our recruiting classes (Keita and Lloyd for next year).  We have legitimate chances at 5-star recruits in future years.  Yes!!  I can no longer control my runaway expectations and nothing you say will change my mind.  Fred and the basketball team will be equal to Bob Devaney and the football program that he built.

[Huskerpapa]

11 minutes ago, 75unlgrad said:

No!!  I can no longer control my runaway expectations!!  THIS YEAR is the start of something BIG.  Fred will 'turn the corner' and have the Huskers in the top half of the conference for years to come.  I love the quality and quantity of talent in this year's freshman class (McGowens, *Edwards, *Wilcher, *Andre, Breidenbach, Kojenets, and McPherson).  I love the direction of our recruiting classes (Keita and Lloyd for next year).  We have legitimate chances at 5-star recruits in future years.  Yes!!  I can no longer control my runaway expectations and nothing you say will change my mind.  Fred and the basketball team will be equal to Bob Devaney and the football program that he built.

I can appreciate your perception.   I just know that no Big Ten team goes backward and our hill has been a hard climb.  We have much better talent and depth, so it should be exciting.  But at least some people are not believing YET.   I just noted we were predicted to finish 11th...in our league.  

We just have some proving to do.