Fire Miles Talk (complete BS)

[hskr4life]

5 hours ago, royalfan said:

 

Sorry, I gave my word that I wouldn't.  There are others on here that have heard it and may not have such obligations. 

Typical... some things are better left unsaid.

[Donkey]

I would say Miles' seat is warm, but I do not foresee Miles' removal after this season unless internal happens.  I don't think W/L record will decide whether Miles stays 

 

If Miles had another class like 2015 or 2016 coming in for 201), the seat would be a lot cooler. I remember reading articles about Roby, Morrow, and Watson as sophomores. We knew about Horne before his senior year (summer 2015) and had been following Jordy back in the summer of 2014. Akenten, I really don't know much about (which is a bad sign). From what little I know, Akenten strikes me as a spring signee who is a project and can help with depth. There does not seem to be any real targets to round out the 2017 class, and I have no clue who are the realistic  key targets for the 2018 and 2019 classes. Heck, the 2013 and 2014 classes had more buzz than the 2017 class. 

 

In non sports fields, whenever I see a trend similar to the current direction of recruiting, it's usually a sign the market has figured out something is no longer viable (even though those involved haven't come to terms yet). Note, if Nebraska loses someone other than Tai and Fuller at the end of the season, it would make Miles position untenable. 

 

Probably the second biggest reason to keep Miles is whether a suitable replacement is available. I strongly doubt Eichorst will hire a flashy guy whose team suddenly had a deep run (ala Groce for Ohio in 2012). I could see another CEO type hire (like Riley). However, Nebraska's tradition is very limited and the new coach would have to be up for the challenge (no easy feat). I could see Eichorst going after a Tommy Amaker type. Otherwise, I don't see Miles leaving. 

[hhcmatt]

9 hours ago, mrj said:

Jays got lucky with Patton (HE WAS 6'2 WHEN THEY OFFERED HIM)

 

Where are you getting any of the information from your initial post? We were talking about 6'10" Patton on this site six months before he landed the offer.

[ajb5856]

31 minutes ago, Donkey said:

I would say Miles' seat is warm, but I do not foresee Miles' removal after this season unless internal happens.  I don't think W/L record will decide whether Miles stays 

 

If Miles had another class like 2015 or 2016 coming in for 201), the seat would be a lot cooler. I remember reading articles about Roby, Morrow, and Watson as sophomores. We knew about Horne before his senior year (summer 2015) and had been following Jordy back in the summer of 2014. Akenten, I really don't know much about (which is a bad sign). From what little I know, Akenten strikes me as a spring signee who is a project and can help with depth. There does not seem to be any real targets to round out the 2017 class, and I have no clue who are the realistic  key targets for the 2018 and 2019 classes. Heck, the 2013 and 2014 classes had more buzz than the 2017 class. 

 

In non sports fields, whenever I see a trend similar to the current direction of recruiting, it's usually a sign the market has figured out something is no longer viable (even though those involved haven't come to terms yet). Note, if Nebraska loses someone other than Tai and Fuller at the end of the season, it would make Miles position untenable. 

 

Probably the second biggest reason to keep Miles is whether a suitable replacement is available. I strongly doubt Eichorst will hire a flashy guy whose team suddenly had a deep run (ala Groce for Ohio in 2012). I could see another CEO type hire (like Riley). However, Nebraska's tradition is very limited and the new coach would have to be up for the challenge (no easy feat). I could see Eichorst going after a Tommy Amaker type. Otherwise, I don't see Miles leaving. 

Your last point about Eichorst making a CEO type hire is the exact reason we can't be so quick to get rid of Miles. Fans really need to remember where this program was with Collier/Sadler. Some

of us forget quickly and other fans seemed to come on board or re-board with the Miles hiring and lack a little perspective. Nebrasketball was not a mentionable thing (at all for any reason whatsoever) under Collier or Sadler. When Miles was hired we had instant national attention due to Miles' personality and connections to various people. There were suddenly articles, national articles written about Nebrasketball/Tim Miles. They followed his recruiting and wrote about our first class facilities. Attention was brought to a program that nobody mentioned for at least a decade. Miles brought in what were celebrity status recruits for visits within the first month of being here. The Chicago guys, etc. Remembering back, I couldn't believe any of the things going on were actually a real thing that was happening. It was all like a weird dream.

 

Now, I'm not saying with certainty one way or the other on Miles. It's still very much up in the air. However, the point about who we could possibly get if Miles was done is a good one. And the point about Eichorst making another CEO type hire ala Mike Riley has me very worried. The way I see it, the Miles hire brought the Nebrasketball name to the forefront. The hire gave life to a program that never really had any. But the program still has yet to really do anything. Football, with its tradition here at NU gives the more business hire in Mike Riley a chance to work. I really can't see this working out at all in basketball. A poor hire from Eichorst could propel us right back to a Collier-Sadler-esque program. We'll see.

[tcp]

Timmeh has to get the benefit of this core of players first. He's owed that much. But for the first time, you can kinda hear the scuffling of the match on the box.

 

Replacing him, however, would be brutal now. No facilities bump. He's recruited his tail off. And most coaches are going to say, "jesus, that job ate Miles alive, and it's the first time he's failed. No way!".

 

So that means finding a diamond among overlooked assistants or lower division head coaches, with few pipes to recruit. Oh, and in the B1G, too.

 

The ADs in a rough place here. I don't envy the person who has to decide when enough is enough, knowing the kind of turmoil that would be in the wake of that firing.

 

 

 

[FredsSlacks]

I think Miles deserves a chance to coach up our young core of watson, roby, jordy, jacobson, morrow, mcveigh, and horne.

 

if he can't make the tourney with that group in the next 2-3 years, then it'll probably be time to part ways.

 

alternatively, if a couple of those guys listed above transfer to a different team, it might be time to part ways.

 

as soon as white left, this became a rebuilding year IMO. We've still been fairly competitive even after losing 2 18 ppg scorers from last year.

 

miles deserves a little more time than collier/sadler because he is recruiting very good players and he has proven he can get us to the tourney.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by TimSmiles

[HuskerFever]

Great, so pretty much everyone agrees that Miles has at least 1+ years with our program. Can we stop talking about it now and worry about it when the time comes?

[jimmykc]

I haven't heard the infamous tape but if it is about the use of curse words one only has to read the book "Nebrasketball" to discover he has had a potty mouth for a long time. I'm guessing Nee, Pelini, and several others were worse. When coaches win, this seems to be overlooked. I doubt any other skeletons which may be in his closet were released before a group of Nebraska backers/donors.

[HB]

2 minutes ago, jimmykc said:

I haven't heard the infamous tape but if it is about the use of curse words one only has to read the book "Nebrasketball" to discover he has had a potty mouth for a long time. I'm guessing Nee, Pelini, and several others were worse. When coaches win, this seems to be overlooked. I doubt any other skeletons which may be in his closet were released before a group of Nebraska backers/donors.

 

Danny could swear even better than i do while playing golf.  A true maestro in the cursing world.  Great word combination and voice inflection.  Creative.  Lots of stamina.  An all-american in that league. 

[kldm64]

I'm a huge Tim Miles supporter but my patience is starting to run thin for several reasons:

 

1)  Ever since the hire of Coach Molinari, all we preach now is defense.  That was the kiss of death for Doc.

2)  Coach Miles seems to be willing to sacrifice playing time to players who are offensively better to players who he thinks are better on defensively.

3)  Miles currently has a 68 - 70 record at NU overall and a 27 - 45 conference record.  Yes, that is a .375 conference winning percentage. 

4)  Other than our tournament run year, he has finished 10th, 11th and 12th place in the conference standings.

5)  No offensive flow or even notion that we are running an offense.  Standing at half-court and waiting till 10 seconds left to call for a pick and roll every time isn't working.  We did that with Terran and now doing it with Tai and expecting them to make a play while rest of team stands around.  No ball movement at all.

6)  Becoming a very boring style of basketball to watch and it is showing in how dead the crowds are.  Nothing exciting to cheer about.

7)  We fired Doc for not being competitive but Doc had a overall winning percentage of .532 at NU while Miles is currently at .493.  Doc had 6 year and Miles is in his 5th year.

 

With all that said, I think the loss of Craig Smith was a much bigger deal than anyone ever expected.  I'm still pulling for Coach Miles to get it done here but could understand why AD would decide to make a move and hire his own coach based on Miles numbers.  I'm still not ready to give up on this team as long way to go and we were 9-9 a few years back and made the tournament.  Anything can happen.

[49r]

4 minutes ago, kldm64 said:

 

7)  We fired Doc for not being competitive but Doc had a overall winning percentage of .532 at NU while Miles is currently at .493

 

 

Shall we take a deeper dive and compare the overall RPI (especially of non-con opponents) of the two, respectively?

[atskooc]

12 minutes ago, kldm64 said:

I'm a huge Tim Miles supporter but my patience is starting to run thin for several reasons:

 

1)  Ever since the hire of Coach Molinari, all we preach now is defense.  That was the kiss of death for Doc.

2)  Coach Miles seems to be willing to sacrifice playing time to players who are offensively better to players who he thinks are better on defensively.

3)  Miles currently has a 68 - 70 record at NU overall and a 27 - 45 conference record.  Yes, that is a .375 conference winning percentage. 

4)  Other than our tournament run year, he has finished 10th, 11th and 12th place in the conference standings.

5)  No offensive flow or even notion that we are running an offense.  Standing at half-court and waiting till 10 seconds left to call for a pick and roll every time isn't working.  We did that with Terran and now doing it with Tai and expecting them to make a play while rest of team stands around.  No ball movement at all.

6)  Becoming a very boring style of basketball to watch and it is showing in how dead the crowds are.  Nothing exciting to cheer about.

7)  We fired Doc for not being competitive but Doc had a overall winning percentage of .532 at NU while Miles is currently at .493.  Doc had 6 year and Miles is in his 5th year.

 

With all that said, I think the loss of Craig Smith was a much bigger deal than anyone ever expected.  I'm still pulling for Coach Miles to get it done here but could understand why AD would decide to make a move and hire his own coach based on Miles numbers.  I'm still not ready to give up on this team as long way to go and we were 9-9 a few years back and made the tournament.  Anything can happen.

There's a lot here I wish I didn't agree with.

[huskerbaseball13]

5 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

Shall we take a deeper dive and compare the overall RPI (especially of non-con opponents) of the two, respectively?

 

 

Yeah I think we can all agree Doc's record was certainly inflated by some weak non-con scheduling.  Doc's non con scheduling never really put us in great positioning had we made it to the bubble.  I'd much rather schedule like we did this year even if it means going 8-4 most years compared to 10-2. 

 

Per Kenpom

 

Doc(Overall/Non Con)

2007- 71; 147

2008- 62; 323

2009- 58; 286

2010- 49; 297

2011- 68; 326

2012- 16; 222

 

Tim Miles(Overall/Non Con)

 

2013- 6; 109

2014- 68; 110

2015- 50; 221

2016- 71; 257

2017- 23; 23(to date)

 

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, jimmykc said:

I haven't heard the infamous tape but if it is about the use of curse words one only has to read the book "Nebrasketball" to discover he has had a potty mouth for a long time. I'm guessing Nee, Pelini, and several others were worse. When coaches win, this seems to be overlooked. I doubt any other skeletons which may be in his closet were released before a group of Nebraska backers/donors.

 

Isn't it funny how this sort of stuff doesn't come out after a big win?

 

When Bo Pelini was fired I wasn't particularly bent out of shape either way  He was winning but he wasn't really winning enough.  He was recruiting but he wasn't recruiting enough. He ran a clean program but his temper on and off the field was anywhere from self-defeating to downright embarrassing.  The part of that process that still bothers me to this day is the audio tape leaked that essentially nailed the lid on the coffin. The guy was in our stadium and someone paid by the university recorded him on a hot mike. After that point that audio was passed around and then it was a matter of waiting until right after a big loss to release it.  Bo said it though, right? It was what needed to be done for the program, right?  The ends justify the means, right?

 

Am I advocating that all the deep dark secrets at this University or program should be kept that way? Absolutely not. Take a moment to look at the end of the spectrum where winning leads to covering up anything no matter the cost. If there is something going on in this program or school that is at all close to what has happened at Penn St or Baylor where the administration is covering up something terrible please do not sit on this and PM me if you do not know where to turn. If laws are being broken please do not sit on this and PM me if you do not know where to turn. Destroying lives in the name of winning isn't a pill we should be willing to swallow.

 

Circling back to Miles I suspect if there was something going on with him or his program anywhere in the NCAA violation to crimes against humanity spectrum  that he's either in the process of being booted or pulling a Frank Haith and taking off because it's not like he's winning enough to get a ton of rope. While I cannot personally say that some audio tape exists nor what might have been said on it, it's not that difficult to imagine Miles says things in private that are completely inappropriate because that filter barely exists when he's talking in public. It's also not difficult to imagine the sort of backstabbing vigilante fans that exist in this program who feel empowered to record dinner conversations and then pass them around when the 'Brotherhood of the Greatest Fans in College Football' feels they are needed to 'do what is necessary to better the program.'

 

I don't know if Miles is fired, quits, or extended in the next two years because any of them are possible.  What I do know is that if some audio tape gets leaked after some hard to handle loss, regardless of where or how, I am complicit in that action and share in that responsibility simply by running this site and being part of today's ecosystem. Let me be crystal clear that part of the penance I will pay shall be the publication of my name on this site (which isn't some huge secret anyway) regarding the role I will have played in this in addition to the names of anyone involved with some sort of release. Given the amount of people that I know plus the joy there seems to be in putting people into their place I do not believe this will be impossible.

 

At the end of the day if you're doing what needs to be done for the program, why shouldn't your name be on it?

[Nebrasketballer]

I would say the talent currently on Nebraska's roster (5-6 former Rivals150 players), plus a legitimate big man (Tshimanga) that will be here for 3 more seasons, in addition to being in the Big Ten conference where prestige, national attention, big name matchups, and financial resources are second to none...makes this job attractive enough to get a proven coach. Nebraska also has an arena and practice facilities that are on par with the top schools in the country. And Pinnacle Bank arena is located in a vibrant, revamped part of the city, which is much different than an out of date Devaney building that was dropped down in the middle of a field away from any sort of exciting activities. I mean can you imagine trying to recruit high school kids to Devaney?

 

All of these things make the Nebraska coaching job exponentially more attractive than it has ever been throughout my lifetime at least.

 

So I don't think it's accurate to say "Nebraska has to keep Miles, because...who else are they going to get?"

 

I think the amount of young talent on this roster makes this job much more attractive to a prospective coach than it would be 2 seasons from now, once the core of the Rivals150 players have graduated and moved on. Right now, the cupboard isn't bare and there is enough talent here that a good coach can come win right away.

 

Also, Nebraska isn't in a situation where they need to worry about coaches thinking Miles was run out of town unfairly. If this season plays out like it looks like it could, then that will mean that Miles has led Nebraska to 3 consecutive sub-.500 seasons in years 3, 4, and 5 of his time here.

 

I think any reasonable fan/coach would be able to see that 3 consecutive losing seasons isn't getting the job done. Regardless of circumstances. We're not talking about missing the NCAA Tournament 3 consecutive seasons. We're talking about sub-.500 record for 3 consecutive seasons. That's not a case of unrealistic expectations.

 

There is enough commitment and investment in this program now and there is even more financial resources since Nebraska will be receiving a full piece of their Big Ten pie starting in 2017. Nebraska can afford to pay top dollar to bring a proven coach in.

 

I'm obviously not suggesting anything ridiculous like Nebraska can bring someone like Izzo, Self, or Roy Williams.

 

But Nebraska can afford to bring in a proven coach.

 

Here are just a few examples of proven coaches that Nebraska could get, if they are willing to open the checkbook and pay what they can afford to pay:

 

Gregg Marshall - Wichita State

Archie Miller - Dayton
Dana Altman - Oregon
Scott Drew - Baylor

Edited December 9, 2016 by Nebrasketballer

[hhcmatt]

11 hours ago, Donkey said:

Akenten, I really don't know much about (which is a bad sign). From what little I know, Akenten strikes me as a spring signee who is a project and can help with depth.

 

Akenten seems to be rolling through the state thus far and I'd expect him to be a top 150 guy when it's all said and done. Between him and Roby (and you could say even Watson who while highly regarded wasn't highly recruited by Illinois) I think we're seeing a viable niche in underappreciated talent in Illinois.

[FredsSlacks]

14 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

Gregg Marshall - Wichita State

Archie Miller - Dayton
Dana Altman - Oregon
Scott Drew - Baylor

I don't see eichorst caring enough to open up the checkbook, and i'd be surprised if any of those 4 have an interest in coming here.

 

if miles did get fired, it'd most likely be another mid major coach taking his spot just like the 3 coaches before him were.

 

 

[Silverbacked1]

1 minute ago, TimSmiles said:

I don't see eichorst caring enough to open up the checkbook, and i'd be surprised if any of those 4 have an interest in coming here.

 

if miles did get fired, it'd most likely be another mid major coach taking his spot just like the 3 coaches before him were.

 

 

Greg McDermott , and wouldn't screw up this state!

[49r]

21 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

 

Here are just a few examples of proven coaches that Nebraska could get, if they are willing to open the checkbook and pay what they can afford to pay:

 

Gregg Marshall - Wichita State

Archie Miller - Dayton
Dana Altman - Oregon
Scott Drew - Baylor

 

Do you have concrete evidence that suggests that any of those guys would actually leave their current job for Nebraska?  Didn't we go after Marshall last time around the coaching carousel and get rebuffed?  Not only that but hasn't Marshall turned down at least 3 much higher profile jobs in the interim?

 

Also, IIRC, Osborne went after Altman as well without any success...

 

As far as Archie Miller and Scott Drew, either of those would definitely be home run hires.  How do we get them?

[brfrad]

1 hour ago, kldm64 said:

I'm a huge Tim Miles supporter but my patience is starting to run thin for several reasons:

 

1)  Ever since the hire of Coach Molinari, all we preach now is defense.  That was the kiss of death for Doc.

2)  Coach Miles seems to be willing to sacrifice playing time to players who are offensively better to players who he thinks are better on defensively.

3)  Miles currently has a 68 - 70 record at NU overall and a 27 - 45 conference record.  Yes, that is a .375 conference winning percentage. 

4)  Other than our tournament run year, he has finished 10th, 11th and 12th place in the conference standings.

5)  No offensive flow or even notion that we are running an offense.  Standing at half-court and waiting till 10 seconds left to call for a pick and roll every time isn't working.  We did that with Terran and now doing it with Tai and expecting them to make a play while rest of team stands around.  No ball movement at all.

6)  Becoming a very boring style of basketball to watch and it is showing in how dead the crowds are.  Nothing exciting to cheer about.

7)  We fired Doc for not being competitive but Doc had a overall winning percentage of .532 at NU while Miles is currently at .493.  Doc had 6 year and Miles is in his 5th year.

 

With all that said, I think the loss of Craig Smith was a much bigger deal than anyone ever expected.  I'm still pulling for Coach Miles to get it done here but could understand why AD would decide to make a move and hire his own coach based on Miles numbers.  I'm still not ready to give up on this team as long way to go and we were 9-9 a few years back and made the tournament.  Anything can happen.

A few things here.  Playing devil's advocate. 

 

1 and 2: 95 % of coaches in power conferences preach defense.  If you can't play defense, you are not getting on the floor for probably any coach in the country.  You can't average 10 PPG, if you give up 10 + PPG.  It does you no better than a player who scores 5 PPG, but gives up 5 PPG.

 

3 and 4:  Going into his 5th year, Nee was 61-64, and 18-38 in conference, a .321 winning percentage in conference.  In Nee's first 4 years (in a conference of 8 teams), they finished 5th, 7th, 7th, and 7th.  The thing that turned it around was a senior led talented team.  Two players on the 5th year team were eventually drafted in the NBA first round (Pike and King)

 

5.  I agree with this.  Our spacing is awful, and we have no emphasis on getting the ball inside for a kick-out or a short little shot.  Our post players struggle to get the ball out of the post for an open shot, on the rare occasions we get it inside.  We need to try to run a little bit on steals and missed shots.

 

6.  If we are winning with our boring style, people are still going to cheer.  It doesn't matter if you run the triple option or the run and shoot in football, as long as you win.

 

7.  Doc rarely played tough Non Conference schedules.  This makes it easier to get into the postseason.  He could go 10-1 out of conference, and then go 5-11 in conference, with a loss in the conference tourney, and have a winning record.  A winning record playing in a major conference is going to get you some NIT games. 

 

I think most people would agree, last year's class of Glynn, Jack, Mike, and Ed is going to be tied to Miles' future here.

 

We have to just wait until the end of the season, to see how we did this year.  How much the freshmen, and sophomore class improves.  Then, we can debate the future of Miles, and whether he is going to make it here or not. 

[49r]

Furthermore, I believe we also went after Tad Boyle at Colorado before reaching out to Miles, and he publicly stated he was not interested in the NU job...even though it presumably would have meant a significant pay increase as well.  (I believe he was making in the neighborhood of $600k at the time so he would have more than doubled his salary at NU)

[nustudent]

Marshall isn't coming to Nebraska.   He's already turned down better programs than us who were offering him a big pay raise.   Same with Drew.  He couldn't get away with here the stuff he does at Baylor.

[Nebrasketballer]

8 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

Do you have concrete evidence that suggests that any of those guys would actually leave their current job for Nebraska?  Didn't we go after Marshall last time around the coaching carousel and get rebuffed?  Not only that but hasn't Marshall turned down at least 3 much higher profile jobs in the interim?

 

Also, IIRC, Osborne went after Altman as well without any success...

 

As far as Archie Miller and Scott Drew, either of those would definitely be home run hires.  How do we get them?

 

Well, obviously I don't have "concrete evidence" that Nebraska could get any of these guys.

 

As far as Nebraska going after Greg Marshall last time...This is a very different situation than last time. Literally every single example I listed in the post that you referenced happened after Nebraska's last coaching search.

 

Also, I would keep in mind, that what I would consider "opening up the checkbook" is probably very different than what Osborne probably would have offered anyone during the last coaching search.

[nustudent]

1 hour ago, 49r said:

 

Shall we take a deeper dive and compare the overall RPI (especially of non-con opponents) of the two, respectively?

 

Thank you.

 

After Saturday, we will have played as many Top 12 (at time of their rankings) non-conference game in the last 15 days as Doc played Top 25 non-conference games in 6 years.

 

Not to mention the additional advantage of having to play a 16-game conference schedule vs. 18 games.   Those were two extra SWAC games that Doc scheduled.

[hhcmatt]

19 hours ago, nustudent said:

That being said...we're at a point where it's fair to question

 

6 minutes ago, 49r said:

Do you have concrete evidence that suggests that any of those guys would actually leave their current job for Nebraska?

 

That we didn't get to the wish list of name coaches on page one even with a diffused topic title is quite the surprise.