Coaching

[kldm64]

Someone needs to explain to me what the hell Miles is thinking sometimes with his player rotation.  I didn't think Jody or Horne played that bad and they both sat once again the entire second half.  I though Jody deserved a few minutes in the 2nd half but can't understand what Miles is doing with Horne.  He provides you some offensive firepower besides Tai and Glynn and you decide to bench him.  It seems Miles is willing to lose a game in order to send Horne some kind of message about playing defense.  You give up 91 points so not like everyone else was playing stellar defense either.  These are the kind of coaching moves by Miles that drive me crazy.  It just makes no sense at all.  I guess if he gets let go at the end of the year, he has nobody to blame but himself.

[brfrad]

It's not like we couldn't put the ball in the basket without them.  Jordy was a huge liability on defense.  Not that everyone else wasn't.  He wasn't going to guard Wagner or Wilson on the perimeter, and wasn't going to stop them from driving if he went out there to guard them.  We scored 49 points in the 2nd half, and shot 53 percent from the floor and 3.  This game shows why we need our players to play defense.  We can't allow other teams to score 91 points on 71 possessions.  We are going to lose 9.99999999 times out of 10 if we keep doing that. 

 

Miles did say in his postgame that Horne made errors on defense and rebounding.  He said it wasn't all Horne, but when you are freshmen, it takes more time for the coaches to trust them.  That is the case with every player.  Miles does have to learn to figure out how to stop teams with the knowledge that the freshmen and sophomores aren't ready to play defense like they need to.

[Huskerpapa]

Analyzing coaching moves in hindsight is always more accurate than in the moment analysis. 

 

I am not sure what Jeriah did (other than foul the kid on a 3 point shot, turning it into a 4 point play) that would have cost him all but 7 minutes of time.  I will assume that the coaches (not just Miles) had their reasons. 

[atskooc]

Miles doesn't make the sub decisions, does he?

 

I thought a couple years ago another coach was responsible for that. Which I always thought was silly. 

[KZRider]

It is certainly fair to raise questions about coaching moves but Miles wasn't officiating the game. I HATE to ever say that officials decide a game but that 22 pts off FTs differential for no good reason was awfully hard to beat.

[Swan88]

Seriously?  We're ragging on the coaching here?

With Morrow healthy, we win both the last two games.  Without a healthy Morrow, we don't. 

It's the Nebraska thing this year: both football and basketball.  About the time you get something going, the injury bug with key players makes sure it doesn't happen.

Edited January 15, 2017 by Swan88

[hskr4life]

Horne provides offense.  We did t need that today.  What we needed was defense and defensive stops.  He has consistently shown that he's not there yet on the D end.

 

I see nothing wrong with his decision not to play Horne more today.  I would trust those who have gotten it done on D already this year... even if they were having a bad game.

[Chuck Taylor]

7 hours ago, hskr4life said:

Horne provides offense.  We did t need that today.  What we needed was defense and defensive stops.  He has consistently shown that he's not there yet on the D end.

 

I see nothing wrong with his decision not to play Horne more today.  I would trust those who have gotten it done on D already this year... even if they were having a bad game.

Exactly. We shot 50% on 3s, that wasn't the issue. 

Strange how much we're scoring in BIG games. I would have thought we'd have continued to struggle after non-con and rely on our D, but we've had 3 games over 85 already. 

[Bugeaters1]

Maybe a new thread needs to be started on bad reffing.

 

[Silverbacked1]

6 hours ago, Bugeaters1 said:

Maybe a new thread needs to be started on bad reffing.

 

 

I love grandpa in the overalls and layered shirts just a laughing behind the scorers table!

Edited January 15, 2017 by Silverbacked1

[basketballjones]

I've never had any issue being critical of some issues I've had with TM - but I'm really not sure what you're getting at here. 

 

At this point, Jordy is flat out terrible. You're basically praying he doesn't make a mistake on defense and that he's gonna actually catch the ball without traveling/throwing up some weird shot on offense. If he's ever effective here, it won't be until his Junior/Senior year. The fact Miles gets him any minutes at all is solely a credit to his foresight and attempt to get Jordy minutes so he can gauge where he's at and get used to game speed at this level. 

 

Also, as others have said, scoring wasn't the problem yesterday. If you keep creeping within 3pts and then proceed to not be able to give up stops - playing the freshman (Horne) who's prone to defensive errors and rebounding errors - is not the right play. Could Horne have stepped up and made some amazing play to get us over the hump? Absolutely. But that's on him to correct those other mistakes so he's trusted to be on the court to do so. 

 

Our coaches have this team in a great position right now. Let's chill, and buy in. We have to be committed to making our home game environments ridiculously hostile - we are in control of our destiny right now. 

[hal9000]

I re-watched the game and payed close attention to our defense when Michigan made three pointers.  In almost every occasion it was when we were in a man defense, a Michigan player makes a drive towards the hoop and a defender would leave his man to help with the drive.  Michigan, and previously Northwestern, would be able to kick it out to a three point shooter.  Either he would be open and shoot it, or, one of our other defenders on the perimeter would have to leave his man to cover the shooter, and the shooter would swing it to that open man.  The first defender who left his man is caught scrambling to close on the open shooter and get a hand up, but it's too late.

 

If I were to ask Coach Miles, or better Molinari a question, I would ask if they ever consider just playing straight up man without the help, at least when teams are able to continually get wide open looks off of it.  If they are coached to help on the dribble drive, it seems hard to expect them to do that and to also be able to get back out to their man before he can get a shot off.  But maybe it's an execution thing. 

 

Perhaps basketballjones or Dean Smith could explain it for me.  

[Blindcheck]

Help defense is a must in college basketball, but every player has to rotate and often, when you see a guy closing out late to a player hitting the wide open three...it might not be because he helped, but because others didn't do their job in the help situation and he either helped too much.

 

I have always coached man to man defense with help, but if one guy doesn't follow the "rules" you see wide open shots...and often the guy scrambling back to cover the wide open shooter is not the guy who should get "yelled" at...but someone else didn't rotate properly and the guy diving back is trying to recover because not everyone rotated properly.

 

Also, I had guys that were told not to leave their man...in situations where there was a specific player that you didn't want to get an open shot.

[Norm Peterson]

On 1/14/2017 at 7:57 PM, kldm64 said:

Someone needs to explain to me what the hell Miles is thinking sometimes with his player rotation.  I didn't think Jody or Horne played that bad and they both sat once again the entire second half.  I though Jody deserved a few minutes in the 2nd half but can't understand what Miles is doing with Horne.  He provides you some offensive firepower besides Tai and Glynn and you decide to bench him.  It seems Miles is willing to lose a game in order to send Horne some kind of message about playing defense.  You give up 91 points so not like everyone else was playing stellar defense either.  These are the kind of coaching moves by Miles that drive me crazy.  It just makes no sense at all.  I guess if he gets let go at the end of the year, he has nobody to blame but himself.

 I guess I disagree with most of this. Miles said in his post-game comments that you can't really play Jack and Jeriah at the same time at this point, so he will try to ride the hot hand. He said Jeriah will continue to get the first opportunity going forward. 

[basketballjones]

12 hours ago, hal9000 said:

I re-watched the game and payed close attention to our defense when Michigan made three pointers.  In almost every occasion it was when we were in a man defense, a Michigan player makes a drive towards the hoop and a defender would leave his man to help with the drive.  Michigan, and previously Northwestern, would be able to kick it out to a three point shooter.  Either he would be open and shoot it, or, one of our other defenders on the perimeter would have to leave his man to cover the shooter, and the shooter would swing it to that open man.  The first defender who left his man is caught scrambling to close on the open shooter and get a hand up, but it's too late.

 

If I were to ask Coach Miles, or better Molinari a question, I would ask if they ever consider just playing straight up man without the help, at least when teams are able to continually get wide open looks off of it.  If they are coached to help on the dribble drive, it seems hard to expect them to do that and to also be able to get back out to their man before he can get a shot off.  But maybe it's an execution thing. 

 

Perhaps basketballjones or Dean Smith could explain it for me.  

So I didn't get to watch the game - but what you're describing sounds like a late stunt to help in a pack defense. 

 

The basic fundamental of any pack defense is that you're in help early, before the other guy's drive has started, then as he nears you on the drive, you're cutting him off, anticipating him to pass to the guy you're guarding so you can close out to him. 

 

However, sometimes you have to help a bit late, which means you're lunging towards the gap to help the drive while the drive is already happening. This a breakdown in the defense that requires your team to make a decisions - do we all stunt and go or do we fully rotate? Sounds like the situation you're describing we rotated to help and the first guy who left had to scramble to find the open guy. Puts your team in a tough situation, yet if done right, guarantees no open kick out shot. Stunt and go, if done right, guarantees you won't lose a man since no one is rotating/switching - but if the stunts are hard enough and the guys don't recover well enough, you'll give up drive angles leading to kick outs. 

 

Where I've seen Nebraska struggle defensively these past two years has been being somewhat in the middle on that decision of whether we'll rotate or stunt and go. Also, regardless of that decision, when we lose/give up 3's, we seem to struggle to "help the helper." Defenses that are consistently elite at helping the guy who had to help win ball games. It shows awareness, anticipation, teamwork, and lack of indecisiveness. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by basketballjones

[hskr4life]

10 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

So I didn't get to watch the game - but what you're describing sounds like a late stunt to help in a pack defense. 

 

The basic fundamental of any pack defense is that you're in help early, before the other guy's drive has started, then as he nears you on the drive, you're cutting him off, anticipating him to pass to the guy you're guarding so you can close out to him. 

 

However, sometimes you have to help a bit late, which means you're lunging towards the gap to help the drive while the drive is already happening. This a breakdown in the defense that requires your team to make a decisions - do we all stunt and go or do we fully rotate? Sounds like the situation you're describing we rotated to help and the first guy who left had to scramble to find the open guy. Puts your team in a tough situation, yet if done right, guarantees no open kick out shot. Stunt and go, if done right, guarantees you won't lose a man since no one is rotating/switching - but if the stunts are hard enough and the guys don't recover well enough, you'll give up drive angles leading to kick outs. 

 

Where I've seen Nebraska struggle defensively these past two years has been being somewhat in the middle on that decision of whether we'll rotate or stunt and go. Also, regardless of that decision, when we lose/give up 3's, we seem to struggle to "help the helper." Defenses that are consistently elite at helping the guy who had to help win ball games. It shows awareness, anticipation, teamwork, and lack of indecisiveness. 

 

I would agree with this.  We tend to be pretty good when we help, but where we breakdown is helping the helper.  

 

I've noticed we struggle with teams who have really good ball movement.  Good ball movement will hurt help defenses if everyone isn't on the same page.

[Cazzie22]

Jordy seems to be a liability playing at the bottom of the 1-3-1 zone.  Roby seems to work well covering ground in the middle.  I would like to see him on the wing to trap the ball.  NU uses that zone differently than some others. I liked a quick guy on the baseline.  

 

[Silverbacked1]

Question:  what if we just let the guy drive and not help the helper?  He makes a two instead of a three correct?  If they make 6 threes off of this in a game that would be 6 less points that we gave up, correct.  Isn't that kind of what Michigan allowed us to do?  We got 40 some points in the paint with the dribble drive and how many times did we kick out to the open man?

 

Just seems like sometimes we should be willing to give up the contested drive shot in the paint rather than letting a good three point shooter have a free look.

 

Just asking.

[Buglem]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

 I guess I disagree with most of this. Miles said in his post-game comments that you can't really play Jack and Jeriah at the same time at this point, so he will try to ride the hot hand. He said Jeriah will continue to get the first opportunity going forward. 

Agree with you on this Norm.  One thing nobody mentioned in this thread yet is that not only did Jeriah miss assignments on defense and rebounding, when Jack got it, he promptly knocked down a couple 3's.  At that point, the minutes have to go to Jack.  I sure hope that kid is getting his confidence back, we need more McTrey's this season!  For the record, I LOVE Jeriah's game and think he has huge upside but in this case, coach made the right call.

[basketballjones]

46 minutes ago, Silverbacked1 said:

Question:  what if we just let the guy drive and not help the helper?  He makes a two instead of a three correct?  If they make 6 threes off of this in a game that would be 6 less points that we gave up, correct.  Isn't that kind of what Michigan allowed us to do?  We got 40 some points in the paint with the dribble drive and how many times did we kick out to the open man?

 

Just seems like sometimes we should be willing to give up the contested drive shot in the paint rather than letting a good three point shooter have a free look.

 

Just asking.

You and Jim Weeks of Beatrice fame would agree with one another. To the tune of many wins. 

 

Problem with this philosophy is you will run into teams who dominate you in the post, backdoors, well organized ball screen action, and a lot of and1's at the rim. In other words, college basketball players are too good with the ball, too good at the rim, and coaches are too good with their spacing and actions to not help. 

Edited January 16, 2017 by basketballjones

[Silverbacked1]

6 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

You and Jim Weeks of Beatrice fame would agree with one another. 

 

Nothing earth shaking just a question.  I see us leave a guy who has hit like two in a row from three to stop a guy who already has to make a lay up over two maybe three guys.  Just wanted to see if antbody else had thought about it.  Guess so.

[hhcmatt]

On 1/15/2017 at 0:43 PM, basketballjones said:

At this point, Jordy is flat out terrible. You're basically praying he doesn't make a mistake on defense and that he's gonna actually catch the ball without traveling/throwing up some weird shot on offense. If he's ever effective here, it won't be until his Junior/Senior year. The fact Miles gets him any minutes at all is solely a credit to his foresight and attempt to get Jordy minutes so he can gauge where he's at and get used to game speed at this level. 

 

Big Men Freshmen in the Big 10

 

Penn St Fr Center Mike Watkins, ESPN 4 star, 418 minutes, 14 starts

Michigan State Fr Center Nick Ward, ESPN 4 star, 364 total minutes, 7 starts

Ohio St Fr Center Micah Potter, ESPN 4 star, 243 total minutes, 11 starts

Indiana Fr PF De'Ron Davis ESPN 4 star, 230, 11 minutes vs us 1 start (Jordy played 14 vs)

Jordy Tshimanga,  ESPN 3 star - 177 minutes total

Northwestern Freshman Center, ESPN 3 star: 0 minutes vs us, 142 total minutes (Jordy played 14 vs)

Michigan Freshman Center John Teske, ESPN 4 star: 0 minutes vs us, 40 total minutes (Jordy played 7 vs)

 

(De'Ron Davis is considered a PF by some, a center by others in recruiting)

[hhcmatt]

BTW I think you'll see more Jordy and Horne in the Ohio St game because of the matchup

[Blindcheck]

3 hours ago, Silverbacked1 said:

Question:  what if we just let the guy drive and not help the helper?  He makes a two instead of a three correct?  If they make 6 threes off of this in a game that would be 6 less points that we gave up, correct.  Isn't that kind of what Michigan allowed us to do?  We got 40 some points in the paint with the dribble drive and how many times did we kick out to the open man?

 

Just seems like sometimes we should be willing to give up the contested drive shot in the paint rather than letting a good three point shooter have a free look.

 

Just asking.

It all depends on what you are willing to give up.

 

If you are willing to live with more easy baskets at the rim...then you can take away the wide open 3...if you want to stop the drive, you will leave yourself vulnerable to open 3.

 

I think sometimes you just need to mix up your defenses...sometimes take away the drive..other times stick to the shooter...It is very tough to take away both options....but by varying what you take away...the guy who is driving might anticipate the help and throw the ball right to our guy that has stayed on the shooter.....

[Silverbacked1]

3 minutes ago, Blindcheck said:

It all depends on what you are willing to give up.

 

If you are willing to live with more easy baskets at the rim...then you can take away the wide open 3...if you want to stop the drive, you will leave yourself vulnerable to open 3.

 

I think sometimes you just need to mix up your defenses...sometimes take away the drive..other times stick to the shooter...It is very tough to take away both options....but by varying what you take away...the guy who is driving might anticipate the help and throw the ball right to our guy that has stayed on the shooter.....

 

yes, I like that a kid has to beat two at the rim and that we rebound, than to let that very good spot up three guy just sit there wide open.

 

But thanks guys for the answers!