Why not here?

[Norm Peterson]

Wow. WTF.

 

 

[basketballjones]

Last time Husker athletics took a coach from Wyoming it turned out pretty good, right? 

[Norm Peterson]

Look at their frickin roster. They're KenPom top 50 with a veritable who's who who's that? of nobodies.

 

This is their best player:

 

Graham Ike, 2020 Center - Rivals.com

[Norm Peterson]

Graham Ike is a true sophomore from Colorado who didn't even get a composite score from 24/7 recruiting.

 

He's the same recruiting class as Eduardo Andre, who was the #226 recruit nationally according to 24/7.

 

Ike is averaging 20 points per game. In his 2nd actual season of college ball.

 

And we're paying a guy $375,000/year to find these guys.

[hhcmatt]

2 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

And we're paying a guy $375,000/year to find these guys.

 

We're paying a guy $375,000 to not look for guys who don't have star rankings

[hhcmatt]

20 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Last time Husker athletics took a coach from Wyoming it turned out pretty good, right? 

 

We certainly have done worse than the last MWC we hired

[Dead Dog Alley]

6 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Graham Ike is a true sophomore from Colorado who didn't even get a composite score from 24/7 recruiting.

 

He's the same recruiting class as Eduardo Andre, who was the #226 recruit nationally according to 24/7.

 

Ike is averaging 20 points per game. In his 2nd actual season of college ball.

 

And we're paying a guy $375,000/year to find these guys.

 

On the other hand, unheralded post player recruits at schools in the bottom tier of the Big Ten are judged harsher by officials than free world Olympic gymnasts were by Communist bloc judges.  Improper hand placement on defense - foul.  Step away too quickly from setting a screen - foul.  An upperclassman flops against you - foul.  Any kind of contact or even perceived contact going for a block - foul.  Awkward footwork on offense - travel.  Until you establish that you've got some ability or that you know what you're doing, the guys in stripes get off on sending you back to the bench.

 

So maybe this kid would have struggled to get established in the Big Ten; or maybe he'd be averaging 14 and 8; it's hard to say.

[Norm Peterson]

You want more frustration?

 

Their second-leading scorer is a 5th-year senior who has played all five seasons ... for Wyoming. Stuck it out through a coaching change. Didn't get cut. Didn't get sent packing. Stuck around. Developed. And he's averaging almost 20 ppg.

 

Their 3rd-leading scorer was an unranked 2020 juco recruit who came out in the same class as Teddy Allen and Lat Mayen, who were both top 20 juco recruits. Except their guy is averaging 47.5% from 3-point range.

 

Their 4th-leading scorer is a true sophomore guard who was unranked as a recruit and chose Wyoming over offers from Montana and Northern Colorado. And he's shooting 37% from 3.

 

And their 5th-leading scorer is another true sophomore. Who turned down offers from Illinois State, New Mexico, and the University of Chicago, to attend Wyoming.

 

So, THREE TRUE SOPHOMORES (who could all officially be freshmen, just like Eduardo), a 2nd-year unranked juco kid, and a 5th year senior who's spent his whole career at Wyoming.

 

And they're KenPom top 50.

 

We're doing something wrong here.

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

17 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

We're paying a guy $375,000 to not look for guys who don't have star rankings

 

Would any sane D1 head basketball coach hire me to be their sole recruiting assistant, armed with nothing more than the latest iteration of the Rivals 150 rankings?

 

I mean, I'm OK with trying to find more talented players. And there's certainly a correlation between Rivals rankings and skill level. But, at a certain point, you have to be able to spot talent regardless of what Rivals says about a guy.

[basketballjones]

13 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Would any sane D1 head basketball coach hire me to be their sole recruiting assistant, armed with nothing more than the latest iteration of the Rivals 150 rankings?

 

I mean, I'm OK with trying to find more talented players. And there's certainly a correlation between Rivals rankings and skill level. But, at a certain point, you have to be able to spot talent regardless of what Rivals says about a guy.

My theory is that anyone outside of about the top 50 or so is there because they "look" like a top 50 guy but have a serious flaw, but they've also gotten a lot of exposure. It's a pure crapshoot after the top 100 anyways. After that point I think you need to start being highly specific about a skill set you want. 

[hhcmatt]

3 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Would any sane D1 head basketball coach hire me to be their sole recruiting assistant, armed with nothing more than the latest iteration of the Rivals 150 rankings?

 

I mean, I'm OK with trying to find more talented players. And there's certainly a correlation between Rivals rankings and skill level. But, at a certain point, you have to be able to spot talent regardless of what Rivals says about a guy.

 

Ike is one of those guys who was a 3 star type guy but had an ACL tear so he was relatively under the radar. Linder was recruiting him at Northern Colorado and had a pretty good understanding about the potential and it's very much paid off.

 

In terms of our roster I don't think it's a lack of talent as much as it is a lack of ability to execute on some idyllic vision where everyone operates with the same goals. Alonzo Verge IS talented...he's a fringe NBA player.  But we can't move him to shooting guard because he might get mad because he came here to train to become a NBA point guard or we don't have a better option.  Linder is someone who is recruiting guys specifically to fit his vision or adjusting his vision to make what he's compiled work.  Matt A is compiling talent that individually might be part of Fred's vision regardless of fit and Fred isn't the guy who can instill being a star in your role. 

 

Once again the problem with Matt A isn't that he can't recruit; it's that he does all the recruiting and I can't fathom how it's possible to dial that back under someone as passive in roster construction as Fred Hoiberg.

[hhcmatt]

Wyoming has had the same AD since 2006.  He's hired and fired Heath Schroyer and Allen Edwards during that time. Larry Shyatt got to resign after a decent stretch. 

If Linder happens to be the right guy to win at Wyoming, it's a portion of the dumb luck of finding the right guy for the right place that many schools sometimes have.

[Handy Johnson]

Back when it WAS happening here, Nebraska knocked off Fennis Dembo & his Wyoming team that would end their season in the Sweet Sixteen, 1987. Miles was right about this "Little Engine That Could" attitude that follows this program around like a dark cloud...  

[Nighthawk]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

You want more frustration?

 

Their second-leading scorer is a 5th-year senior who has played all five seasons ... for Wyoming. Stuck it out through a coaching change. Didn't get cut. Didn't get sent packing. Stuck around. Developed. And he's averaging almost 20 ppg.

 

Their 3rd-leading scorer was an unranked 2020 juco recruit who came out in the same class as Teddy Allen and Lat Mayen, who were both top 20 juco recruits. Except their guy is averaging 47.5% from 3-point range.

 

Their 4th-leading scorer is a true sophomore guard who was unranked as a recruit and chose Wyoming over offers from Montana and Northern Colorado. And he's shooting 37% from 3.

 

And their 5th-leading scorer is another true sophomore. Who turned down offers from Illinois State, New Mexico, and the University of Chicago, to attend Wyoming.

 

So, THREE TRUE SOPHOMORES (who could all officially be freshmen, just like Eduardo), a 2nd-year unranked juco kid, and a 5th year senior who's spent his whole career at Wyoming.

 

And they're KenPom top 50.

 

We're doing something wrong here.

 

 

 

This spot on...Every year is a rebuild year with this program.  We are never going to be able to build...no matter who the coach is, if we keep getting players that either transfer here with limited time, or transfer to another school after a year or two or hell get recruited to the NBA.  I also can't get to impressed with any player no matter how good they are if they aren't going to stick around.  Hard to build support around a guy who is going to give one year (if even) to a program. 

[demone]

1 hour ago, Handy Johnson said:

Back when it WAS happening here, Nebraska knocked off Fennis Dembo & his Wyoming team that would end their season in the Sweet Sixteen, 1987. Miles was right about this "Little Engine That Could" attitude that follows this program around like a dark cloud...  

Truly one of my all time favorite player names.

[Cowboy Kermit]

2 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

Wyoming has had the same AD since 2006.  He's hired and fired Heath Schroyer and Allen Edwards during that time. Larry Shyatt got to resign after a decent stretch. 

If Linder happens to be the right guy to win at Wyoming, it's a portion of the dumb luck of finding the right guy for the right place that many schools sometimes have.

 

And the guy they originally wanted to be their guy was Tim Miles. Linder was at best their second choice. 

[Huskerpapa]

I will call myself an idiot because I must think too much inside the box.  If I were building a program I would build as if I were building a home.  You need a rock solid foundation first and foremost.  In basketball my foundation would be players whose goals and character are what I want my team to exhibit throughout my tenure.   Hustle, tough, work ethic, team first. Every player that follows, be it a three or five star would understand those requirements.  This is the freaking Big Ten.  Players knowing the expectations would come here.  You do not need to be an ogre to coach the players, simply hold them accountable. 

It seems the current Husker teams do not have those foundational players.  If we do, who are they?  

[HB]

Norm, I appreciate you bringing up Wyoming.  I am a longtime Cowboy fan and have watched most of their games (they are playing at Fresno State Sunday at 6 p.m. cst; is on FS1).    Ike is good.  Big fella that can make free throws.   20/9.    I would take Linder or Niko Medved.  

[Norm Peterson]

I'm sorry, everyone. I was mistaken. Matt Abdelmassih does NOT make $375,000/year.

 

He makes $400,000/year.

 

Four hundred grand. To circle names on the Rivals 150 like it's a race form at Pimlico.

 

I guarantee he doesn't know crap about horses. Has no idea how to train them to run faster. Someone just taught him how to read a racing form and put him in charge of placing the bets.

[NUdiehard]

6 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Once again the problem with Matt A isn't that he can't recruit; it's that he does all the recruiting and I can't fathom how it's possible to dial that back under someone as passive in roster construction as Fred Hoiberg.

 

You (and others) have said this before and I have no idea what it means.  Seems what your saying is that since Matt A has been responsible for most of the recruiting up to this point, it is impossible for him to have a reduced role and only be responsible for "part" of the recruiting going forward?  Not sure I follow the logic of this take.

[hhcmatt]

2 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

 

You (and others) have said this before and I have no idea what it means.  Seems what your saying is that since Matt A has been responsible for most of the recruiting up to this point, it is impossible for him to have a reduced role and only be responsible for "part" of the recruiting going forward?  Not sure I follow the logic of this take.

 

I'd assume that Fred is working from the same perspective as you in the sense that he's just a year or two of things turning around if he just keeps with it. Why would he have anyone change roles unless it was necessary? Why would it be necessary unless Matt wasn't there?

[Norm Peterson]

Staff changes aren’t gonna be Fred’s choice.

[hhcmatt]

8 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Staff changes aren’t gonna be Fred’s choice.

 

I'd expect the bathwater to be changed; I'm not sure what happens to the baby.

Maybe Nebraska rips off 6 wins here in the next month.  Wouldn't that be something.

[cornfed24-7]

15 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Staff changes aren’t gonna be Fred’s choice.

My hope is because the new guy is filling out his staff.

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I'd expect the bathwater to be changed; I'm not sure what happens to the baby.

Maybe Nebraska rips off 6 wins here in the next month.  Wouldn't that be something.

 

I'm expecting some of the bathwater to change itself.