Hot Seat

[Handy Johnson]

1 hour ago, uneblinstu said:

Outside of the Copeland injury, I really wonder what happened or didn't that let that thing spiral the way it did. That team should have been a really good team. They were a shell of what they were in December by the end of the season...

And yet SIX of them made a run @ the B1G Tournament Title, where’s that level of “want to” now? I think that’s what’s  so maddening when watching this current roster…

[BannedAccount]

5 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

For NU, it was a breakout year. It was literally the second best conference record in modern program history. The only one better was 65-66. I don't care that the conference was down. If the conference would have been better, they still would have won a lot of games. They were a really good team that year. 

I get it but in a sense it was fools gold. Outside of the # of wins that season felt empty as they didnt play a tough enough schedule and didnt win the games that mattered

[BannedAccount]

4 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

If you’ll recall they beat National Runner-Up Michigan by 20 @ home & also the Fisheaters from up in Omaha (the only time in the last 10 btw) They are also the ONLY team in B1G history to finish 4th in Conference & not make the Dance. 

They did not beat Crayton that year, the next year they did.

[49r]

1 hour ago, uneblinstu said:

Outside of the Copeland injury, I really wonder what happened or didn't that let that thing spiral the way it did. That team should have been a really good team. They were a shell of what they were in December by the end of the season...

 

Our depth was paper thin that year.  We literally couldn't have anyone get injured and even then it was probably going to end poorly for us because the guys' legs were jelly by February.

 

This was and always had been the most damning legacy of Miles tenure at Nebraska.  He would have 4 to 6 Big Ten caliber players and then pretty much dogmeat after that.  He had quite a bit of pretty decent depth transfer out.

[thrasher31]

1 hour ago, 49r said:

 

Our depth was paper thin that year.  We literally couldn't have anyone get injured and even then it was probably going to end poorly for us because the guys' legs were jelly by February.

 

This was and always had been the most damning legacy of Miles tenure at Nebraska.  He would have 4 to 6 Big Ten caliber players and then pretty much dogmeat after that.  He had quite a bit of pretty decent depth transfer out.

Jordy transferring in July(?) was a crazy turn that caught most everyone off guard. If he transferred, we thought it would've been sooner. 

 

Throw in the dedoch chan scramble and our post depth was BAD. 

 

I'm still an amir Harris believer. 

[millerhusker]

1 minute ago, thrasher31 said:

Jordy transferring in July(?) was a crazy turn that caught most everyone off guard. If he transferred, we thought it would've been sooner. 

 

Throw in the dedoch chan scramble and our post depth was BAD. 

 

I'm still an amir Harris believer. 

I really liked Amir when he was here. He's not in the rotation now as a senior on a bad George Washington team. That speaks to what our talent level would have been going forward. 

 

I used to watch Husker games with a former KU starter. He follows Nebrasketball pretty closely because of me. Poor guy. During the 2018-19 year, I remember him being pretty down on the future of Husker hoops. Then after Miles got fired, he thought all of the players on our would-be future roster would end up at lower level schools and not do much. I brought that opinion to this board and it wasn't received well. 

Amir Harris - George Washington. Not getting significant minutes.

Karrington Davis - Is now at a Division II school.

Jervay Green - Role player at an NAIA school

Brady Heiman - Hurt this year. Played spot minutes last year at South Dakota. 

Nana Akenten - Southeast Missouri State. Comes off the bench and averages 5 ppg this year. 

Akol Arop - UNO. Comes off the bench and averages 4 ppg. 

Mika Adams-Woods - Now a full-time starter at Cinci. Averages 6.8 ppg and 3.6 apg. 

Thor and Dachon Burke - were significant contributors on arguably the worst teams in Husker history (until this year).

As far as we know, this would've been our rotation that next year. Thomas Allen was leaving regardless. Not sure about Roby, but I think he made the right choice to leave. I'm sure we would've added a Moses Abraham or two in the offseason to help with post depth. 

This would've been Miles' worst roster by far (and remember he finished near the bottom of the conference in 5 out of 7 years). Unlike the previous 7 years, there's not a player there that could bail out the offense with late shot-clock heroics and the offense overall would've been absolute garbage (The KU player used to say he would've loved playing against Miles offense. As along as he wasn't guarding our designated scorer - Talley, Petteway, Watson, Webster, Palmer - he could somewhat relax on that end of the court for the majority of the game, noting how there were often 3 players standing within 6 feet of each other and no off-ball movement). 

 

Hoiberg obviously hasn't worked out. But that has nothing to do with the firing of Miles. The 2018-19 team completely fell apart, and the future looked much worse.

[Ron Mexico]

7 hours ago, busticket said:

That’s the narrative we have been fed here a long time.  And then you look at guys like Mel Tucker, Bob Stoops or….. Scott Frost at UCF.

 

But yeah, basketball is much easier to turn to your point.  That is why I am so disappointed in Fred right now.

I'm not going to debate the merits of a "narrative." I saw a team that was competitive in every game and that means a lot to me. That is a sign of positive culture which is the foundation that had been missing since BP was fired.

We'll see on Mel Tucker. He caught lightening in a bottle this season with some transfers. 

 

[millerhusker]

1 minute ago, thrasher31 said:

Jordy transferring in July(?) was a crazy turn that caught most everyone off guard. If he transferred, we thought it would've been sooner. 

 

Throw in the dedoch chan scramble and our post depth was BAD. 

 

I'm still an amir Harris believer. 

I really liked Amir when he was here. He's not in the rotation now as a senior on a bad George Washington team. That speaks to what our talent level would have been going forward. 

 

I used to watch Husker games with a former KU starter. He follows Nebrasketball pretty closely because of me. Poor guy. During the 2018-19 year, I remember him being pretty down on the future of Husker hoops. Then after Miles got fired, he thought all of the players on our would-be future roster would end up at lower level schools and not do much. I brought that opinion to this board and it wasn't received well. 

Amir Harris - George Washington. Not getting significant minutes.

Karrington Davis - Is now at a Division II school.

Jervay Green - Role player at an NAIA school

Brady Heiman - Hurt this year. Played spot minutes last year at South Dakota. 

Nana Akenten - Southeast Missouri State. Comes off the bench and averages 5 ppg this year. 

Akol Arop - UNO. Comes off the bench and averages 4 ppg. 

Mika Adams-Woods - Now a full-time starter at Cinci. Averages 6.8 ppg and 3.6 apg. 

Thor and Dachon Burke - were significant contributors on arguably the worst teams in Husker history (until this year).

As far as we know, this would've been our rotation that next year. Thomas Allen was leaving regardless. Not sure about Roby, but I think he made the right choice to leave. I'm sure we would've added a Moses Abraham or two in the offseason to help with post depth. 

This would've been Miles' worst roster by far (and remember he finished near the bottom of the conference in 5 out of 7 years). Unlike the previous 7 years, there's not a player there that could bail out the offense with late shot-clock heroics and the offense overall would've been absolute garbage (The KU player used to say he would've loved playing against Miles offense. As along as he wasn't guarding our designated scorer - Talley, Petteway, Watson, Webster, Palmer - he could somewhat relax on that end of the court for the majority of the game, noting how there were often 3 players standing within 6 feet of each other and no off-ball movement). 

 

Hoiberg obviously hasn't worked out. But that has nothing to do with the firing of Miles. The 2018-19 team completely fell apart, and the future looked much worse.

[Ron Mexico]

3 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

I really liked Amir when he was here. He's not in the rotation now as a senior on a bad George Washington team. That speaks to what our talent level would have been going forward. 

 

I used to watch Husker games with a former KU starter. He follows Nebrasketball pretty closely because of me. Poor guy. During the 2018-19 year, I remember him being pretty down on the future of Husker hoops. Then after Miles got fired, he thought all of the players on our would-be future roster would end up at lower level schools and not do much. I brought that opinion to this board and it wasn't received well. 

Amir Harris - George Washington. Not getting significant minutes.

Karrington Davis - Is now at a Division II school.

Jervay Green - Role player at an NAIA school

Brady Heiman - Hurt this year. Played spot minutes last year at South Dakota. 

Nana Akenten - Southeast Missouri State. Comes off the bench and averages 5 ppg this year. 

Akol Arop - UNO. Comes off the bench and averages 4 ppg. 

Mika Adams-Woods - Now a full-time starter at Cinci. Averages 6.8 ppg and 3.6 apg. 

Thor and Dachon Burke - were significant contributors on arguably the worst teams in Husker history (until this year).

As far as we know, this would've been our rotation that next year. Thomas Allen was leaving regardless. Not sure about Roby, but I think he made the right choice to leave. I'm sure we would've added a Moses Abraham or two in the offseason to help with post depth. 

This would've been Miles' worst roster by far (and remember he finished near the bottom of the conference in 5 out of 7 years). Unlike the previous 7 years, there's not a player there that could bail out the offense with late shot-clock heroics and the offense overall would've been absolute garbage (The KU player used to say he would've loved playing against Miles offense. As along as he wasn't guarding our designated scorer - Talley, Petteway, Watson, Webster, Palmer - he could somewhat relax on that end of the court for the majority of the game, noting how there were often 3 players standing within 6 feet of each other and no off-ball movement). 

 

Hoiberg obviously hasn't worked out. But that has nothing to do with the firing of Miles. The 2018-19 team completely fell apart, and the future looked much worse.

Hard to argue against logical fallacy. 

A=End of Season Roster ('18/19) - No roster change and Miles still coach

B=Beginning of Season Roster ('19/20) - Miles

C=Final Record ('19/20)

If A=C and B=C then does A+C=B+C? 

You reached into hat and grabbed a couple of talking points that fit your narrative and declared your conclusion as fact.

So here are a few you left out.

He was pretty good at using the transfer portal.

He isn't on the "hot seat" for most of the season.

Roby stays

 

Speculation about the next seasons roster is a waste of time. If Miles would have stayed and you guessed the final record for the '19/20 season on March 24, 2019 you wouldn't have been able to do so within 5 games.

That's why this all folly. 

 

You want to discuss the merits of the offense he ran then we wouldn't have much disagreement.

As a matter of fact, his offense had some of the same issues that both Doc and FH have which is lack of ball movement and to much dribbling at the top of the key and not enough moving without the ball.

 

 

[Dead Dog Alley]

5 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

And yet SIX of them made a run @ the B1G Tournament Title, where’s that level of “want to” now? I think that’s what’s  so maddening when watching this current roster…

 

The best coaching that Miles did in his tenure were in the last 6 games after he knew he was going to be fired.  

[Dead Dog Alley]

5 hours ago, coughunter said:

I get it but in a sense it was fools gold. Outside of the # of wins that season felt empty as they didnt play a tough enough schedule and didnt win the games that mattered

 

Questionable officiating against Illinois, Ohio State, Kansas, Creighton didn't help.

[BannedAccount]

11 minutes ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Questionable officiating against Illinois, Ohio State, Kansas, Creighton didn't help.

Omg, seriously? We are dwelling on that 5 years later?

[hskr4life]

34 minutes ago, coughunter said:

Omg, seriously? We are dwelling on that 5 years later?

To be fair, anyone talking about Tim’s tenure right now is “dwelling”... yourself included no?  

[Handy Johnson]

47 minutes ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

The best coaching that Miles did in his tenure were in the last 6 games after he knew he was going to be fired.  

That team will always hold a special place in Husker lore & certainly restored my faith as a fan. After the Butler game Copeland came out to look around the arena & soak it all in one last time. Miles soon followed & gave out one last “Go Big Red” before walking off the floor…

[Dean Smith]

On 12/20/2021 at 3:16 PM, royalfan said:

My vocabulary doesn't go deep enough.  I do put about 17 or so of them on Miles.  There was not any talent whatsoever left behind.  But even then, it is hard to fathom or put into words.  Hoiberg looks exhausted.  It is a very similar story as Frost.  Comes in good looking, energetic.  Seems like it will work great.  Neither guys systems worked well in Big 10 and both very uncomfortable figuring out what does work.  Both look beaten down and defeated.  Neither likely to have a very happy ending.  Tough deal.  

Part of the reason the cupboard was bare was because everyone knew he had no support from the AD. That's why Hunter left. It is very difficult to recruit talent to a place everyone knows the coach is on his way out.

[BannedAccount]

43 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

To be fair, anyone talking about Tim’s tenure right now is “dwelling”... yourself included no?  

Well smart guy ive just responded to people who think he was a god for this program and shouldve got more then 7 years to prove something, but thanks for your input

[hskr4life]

23 minutes ago, coughunter said:

Well smart guy ive just responded to people who think he was a god for this program and shouldve got more then 7 years to prove something, but thanks for your input

Haven't seen anyone call him a God and to be honest, most of those defending him are also willing to/already did point out his weaknesses as well.

 

I think he “proved” something prior to his 7th year.  He did take us dancing, had us in the Top 25 multiple times, and had some solid seasons in the Big 10.  The question more revolved around are we ok with the product on the floor.  Admin decided no and moved on.  We had Fred in our pockets it sounds like... so it was of course a no brainer.  But now that the grass isn’t greener (at least yet) people are realizing that finishing 4th in a down Big 10 maybe wasn’t that bad after all.

Edited December 22, 2021 by hskr4life

[BannedAccount]

10 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

Haven't seen anyone call him a God and to be honest, most of those defending him are also willing to/already did point out his weaknesses as well.

 

I think he “proved” something prior to his 7th year.  He did take us dancing, had us in the Top 25 multiple times, and had some solid seasons in the Big 10.  The question more revolved around are we ok with the product on the floor.  Admin decided no and moved on.  We had Fred in our pockets it sounds like... so it was of course a no brainer.  But now that the grass isn’t greener (at least yet) people are realizing that finishing 4th in a down Big 10 maybe wasn’t that bad after all.

I mean he had one year where he caught lightning in a bottle and one year in a really bad conference and weak non con. Other than that 10th place or worse and losing records.  We can agree to disagree I guess but i feel its false hope in 17-18.  Its always hindsight and Tims personality was likeable.  If im not mistaken they were only top 25 once in 14-15.  Anyway, ive moved on.

[jason2486]

I would disagree that the conference was really bad in 17-18. Those conference rankings are typically determined by the non-con, which is over by the middle of December typically. I don't put much stock in them. Hell, Michigan made the NC game that year. We should've danced, and probably make the Sweet 16 that year.

[hhcmatt]

6 hours ago, millerhusker said:

Hoiberg obviously hasn't worked out. But that has nothing to do with the firing of Miles. The 2018-19 team completely fell apart, and the future looked much worse.

 

In a vacuum I certainly agree with this.  We had Hoiberg on the hook ready to reel in. As someone who appreciated what Miles brought to this program I certainly thought this would be a move up and given the choice would take Hoiberg. 

 

That being said I would  like to take issue with the 'cupboard was bare' argument that people like to trot out with Miles now three years later. Even if you aren't sold on Burke and Green performing better in his system or that he doesn't somehow add more pieces in this transfer crazy world, isn't it inevitable that after 3 years he would have built something in the range of decent to good? Cheese and rice the guy at least possessed a clue of how to build and guide a team. Hopefully our next coach will as well.

[Chuck Taylor]

All I want for Christmas is a big win, so this thread takes a rest until next week. Or maybe turn it into a Hot Treat thread so everyone can list their favorite baked holiday goodies.

[Handy Johnson]

7 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

In a vacuum I certainly agree with this.  We had Hoiberg on the hook ready to reel in. As someone who appreciated what Miles brought to this program I certainly thought this would be a move up and given the choice would take Hoiberg. 

 

That being said I would  like to take issue with the 'cupboard was bare' argument that people like to trot out with Miles now three years later. Even if you aren't sold on Burke and Green performing better in his system or that he doesn't somehow add more pieces in this transfer crazy world, isn't it inevitable that after 3 years he would have built something in the range of decent to good? Cheese and rice the guy at least possessed a clue of how to build and guide a team. Hopefully our next coach will as well.

Sounds like you’re convinced Dimes it’s not a matter or “if” but “when” we move on from Hoiberg. Granted we’ve seen nothing to give any indication he’s gonna turn it around this year, but it is a LONG season. My overarching concern is that I can’t see Albert’s wanting to bring in BOTH Football/Basketball Coaches (again) in the next calendar year. If Frost gets a long leash based on absolutely nothing, I hope Fred is extended the same courtesy…

[hhcmatt]

57 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

Sounds like you’re convinced Dimes it’s not a matter or “if” but “when” we move on from Hoiberg. Granted we’ve seen nothing to give any indication he’s gonna turn it around this year, but it is a LONG season. My overarching concern is that I can’t see Albert’s wanting to bring in BOTH Football/Basketball Coaches (again) in the next calendar year. If Frost gets a long leash based on absolutely nothing, I hope Fred is extended the same courtesy…

 

I'd be more surprised than not surprised if he was still the coach next year.  I'd have a similar feeling if I was wondering about our odds of finishing over .500 next year.  It's an unfortunate reality because the flipside of hiring a new coach is that you're just going through a rebuild with a different guy.  Death or Bunga Bunga?

 

[huskerbill85]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I'd be more surprised than not surprised if he was still the coach next year.  I'd have a similar feeling if I was wondering about our odds of finishing over .500 next year.  It's an unfortunate reality because the flipside of hiring a new coach is that you're just going through a rebuild with a different guy.  Death or Bunga Bunga?

 

What's his buyout?

[BannedAccount]

2 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

Sounds like you’re convinced Dimes it’s not a matter or “if” but “when” we move on from Hoiberg. Granted we’ve seen nothing to give any indication he’s gonna turn it around this year, but it is a LONG season. My overarching concern is that I can’t see Albert’s wanting to bring in BOTH Football/Basketball Coaches (again) in the next calendar year. If Frost gets a long leash based on absolutely nothing, I hope Fred is extended the same courtesy…

The sample size thus far says a lot from both coaches.  Its still early for Fred but 19 wins in 3 years with only 6 power 5 wins isnt looking good.  If this year ends bad as its trending, its hard to sell that somehow year 4 will change, like year 5 in fb, running it back. We want both to succeed but its insane to think it will change at least on the bb front unless improvement is obtained the rest of the year.