Fast forward a year

[khoock]

25 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

I have to join Norm in this fray...i can certainly hope and wish; but I am not seeing much right now that makes me "optimistic."

I guess we shall see how this all plays out.  

Reasons to be optimistic:

 

1. We have size coming to help on the boards in the form of: wings 6'5 Teddy Allen, 6'6 Shamiel Stevenson, and 6'8 Dalano Banton, and post players 6'8 Derrick Walker and 6'9 Lat Mayen. Not even including whatever growth we get from 6'8 Kevin Cross and 6'9 Yvan Ouedraogo.

 

2. Hoiberg can teach shooting. Even though we undeniably do not have the caliber of shooting we need. The cupboard isnt completely bare and HCFH knows what hes doing when it comes to that.

 

I'd say those are our biggest issues and i think they are getting addressed. Not saying we will be B1G champs or even close but we will most definitely take a sizable step forward. There are reasons for optimism.

[REDZONEDAN]

2 hours ago, Huskerpapa said:

I have to join Norm in this fray...i can certainly hope and wish; but I am not seeing much right now that makes me "optimistic."

I guess we shall see how this all plays out.  

Out of curiosity, are you and Norm not optimistic in regards to just next year, or are you not optimistic at all with our future under Hoiberg?

[huskerbaseball13]

On 1/3/2020 at 2:25 PM, Norm Peterson said:

 

Are you serious?

 

I think our most talented roster in a very long time was Watson, Copeland, Palmer, Roby, Allen.

 

I haven't seen enough of the sit-out transfers to really assess them, but their stats coming in are not very promising. And the current group of potential returning players would have to take a step up to get to bad.

 

I might need to sit some of these discussions out for a while until we see something definitive, one way or the other. Which basically won't happen until next November.

 

I'm usually the uber-optimistic guy and I'm not seeing right now what others must be seeing. Even under Barry Collier, we never sucked as badly as we suck right now and our $380,000/year recruiting assistant ain't getting our foot in the door with top 50 talent, except the one on our doorstep.

 

So, I'm just gonna take a step back and leave it at that for a while.

Most talented may be putting the cart before the horse. I’ve heard good things about Banton and Stevenson. Have not heard much on walker. I’m assuming we will see similar development out of the rest of the crew that was seen at ISU under Hoiberg.  
 

A starting lineup of Mack, Allen, Stevenson, Banton, and an improved Ouedrogo is pretty appealing to me.  Not sure we see the type of jump where Hoiberg took ISU from a 3 win Big 12 team in year 1 to the tournament in year 2 but he is going to have far more weapons to work with next year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bball23]

On 1/2/2020 at 10:25 AM, Norm Peterson said:

 

I'm in wait-and-see mode right now.

 

I see some good pieces on the roster as well as some potentially good pieces (Banton, for instance).

 

But where's that JPJ guy who, when it gets down to crunch time and you absolutely have to have a bucket, can get you one?

 

I think we need to be a considerably better 3-point shooting team and I'm not sure what known pieces for next year's roster are going to change that situation significantly.

 

Right now, we are at best a mediocre shooting team. We will be bottom dwellers in the conference as long as we remain a mediocre shooting team.

Norm, you mentioned our top roster of Roby, Allen, Palmer, Copeland and Watson.  Which I agree about all of them.

 

You are "concerned" as our sit out transfers numbers weren't great. 

 

You do realize James Palmer Jr. averaged 3.7 points the year before he came to NU correct?

Copeland averaged 5.4 points before he came to NU.

 

Point being.  NOBODY knew Palmer and Copeland would do what they did at NU.  It's easy to sit here and say "Look at how great they were!"  Who's to say that a new system, a year extra of work in their sit out year can't have the same type of affects to Banton, Stevenson, Walker?  Nobody knows for sure.

 

Cam Mack can do some things that Glynn Watson could never do.  I'm not saying right now Cam Mack is better than Watson, but the dude is 13 games into his 1st season of D1 Basketball and already dropped a triple double against a B10 opponent.  And if we can somehow get guys to finish 3's and shots around the rim, Cam Mack may set all kinds of assist records at NU.  If we could make even a decent amount of shots this season Mack would have like 40 more assist already.  Dude finds his guys.

 

Not only that, but this group of 11 brand new players is working on a brand new system.  Hell, I've seen better ball movement and spacing in 13 games then I did in Miles entire tenure (and I'm a big Miles guy).  IF (and its always the million dollar, "if") Hoiberg can get the guys that he needs in our system, we will be ok.  And in this day in age, none of us know how many on this roster will be asked to leave and we all know Hoiberg loves transfers, so we may be leaving spots open for one of the 800 kids that transfer every NCAA season.  

 

No panic here.  At all.

[khoock]

Been doing some more thinking about next year (i swear i dont always have this much free time, but we just had our first child and i took an additional week off of work with the holidays to help out and find myself with not much to do when baby and baby mama are asleep ).

 

With absolutely no inside information, I feel very comfortable about seven players being in the rotation next year. Whether they are starters or bench pieces, i do not know. Those seven are Cam Mack, Dachon Burke, Teddy Allen, Shamiel Stevenson, Dalano Banton, Yvan Ouedraogo, and Derrick Walker. I think the starting 5 will come from that group and the other two will play significant minutes off the bench.

 

That leaves us with Jervay Green, Charlie Easley, Thorir Thorbjarnarson, Akol Arop, Lat Mayen, and Kevin Cross left. HCFH will either play a 7+1 or an 8+1 rotation (the +1 is a semi-regular piece that will appear in a lot of games but not all and will not play a high volume of minutes).

 

In a second, I will add what the remaining players will bring to the table that will give them a chance to fill that last spot or two.

[cipsucks]

4 hours ago, khoock said:

Been doing some more thinking about next year (i swear i dont always have this much free time, but we just had our first child and i took an additional week off of work with the holidays to help out and find myself with not much to do when baby and baby mama are asleep ).

 

With absolutely no inside information, I feel very comfortable about seven players being in the rotation next year. Whether they are starters or bench pieces, i do not know. Those seven are Cam Mack, Dachon Burke, Teddy Allen, Shamiel Stevenson, Dalano Banton, Yvan Ouedraogo, and Derrick Walker. I think the starting 5 will come from that group and the other two will play significant minutes off the bench.

 

That leaves us with Jervay Green, Charlie Easley, Thorir Thorbjarnarson, Akol Arop, Lat Mayen, and Kevin Cross left. HCFH will either play a 7+1 or an 8+1 rotation (the +1 is a semi-regular piece that will appear in a lot of games but not all and will not play a high volume of minutes).

 

In a second, I will add what the remaining players will bring to the table that will give them a chance to fill that last spot or two.

 

Since you haven't had a chance to add your thoughts on what the remaining players will bring to the table, I'm assuming baby mama woke up and broke either your laptop or all your fingers.  Or all of the above.  Best of luck, baby daddy!  :)

[75unlgrad]

I still think Mayen will be our starting 4 and Walker our starting 5.

[Coaches kid]

It will be very interesting to see which pieces from this roster are part of our plans next year. Still have a feeling that some guys who are major contributors in the current rotation won't be here next year. We need not only scorers/shooters, but competitive guys who are gonna sell out on both ends of the floor.  This would be akin to Frost's desire to have football players who love the game and are winners. It's really about dudes with the right mentality who won't sulk or need to have their egos constantly stroked. 

 

We have too many guys right now who will defend for 15/20 seconds, but end up playing matador defense later in the shot clock. Also need guys who are athletically able to bang on the boards with Big 10 players. Allen can get buckets, but I'd like another shooter who will knock down open looks when Mack or Banton can get in the paint. When I watched Allen play, he was more of a scorer than a shooter, but I see his 3 point percentage In JUCO is very good. Walker and Stevenson (Allen as well) will hopefully be upgrades in the rebounding area. Hoping Mayen is a diamond in the rough. I'd still like another off guard or wing who can flat out hit 40% from 3 and not be a liability on the defensive end. 

[49r]

 

[Huskerpapa]

On 1/4/2020 at 7:16 PM, REDZONEDAN said:

Out of curiosity, are you and Norm not optimistic in regards to just next year, or are you not optimistic at all with our future under Hoiberg?

Good question.  I believe in Fred, but i am not as confident in our current recruiting.  Is our talent getting better or regressing?   Are our incoming recruits Big Ten caliber players?  Perhaps.  

We are playing bad basketball this year with the exception of a couple games.  The offense is creating open looks, but we are missing ten or more bunnies per game, shooting free throws at an average junior high pace, we have defensive breakdowns way to often, our intensity is MIA and our rebounding is sporadic at best.

Are we getting the talent that matches the style that we are trying to play?

[huskerbaseball13]

2 hours ago, Huskerpapa said:

Good question.  I believe in Fred, but i am not as confident in our current recruiting.  Is our talent getting better or regressing?   Are our incoming recruits Big Ten caliber players?  Perhaps.  

We are playing bad basketball this year with the exception of a couple games.  The offense is creating open looks, but we are missing ten or more bunnies per game, shooting free throws at an average junior high pace, we have defensive breakdowns way to often, our intensity is MIA and our rebounding is sporadic at best.

Are we getting the talent that matches the style that we are trying to play?

3 of our top 8 are Tim Miles guys. Two are grad transfers who were more or less brought in to help fill out a roster. Out of the two centers, both are true freshman. One is 17 and the other doesn’t have the body yet to play Big Ten ball. Cam Mack is top 15 in assists per game. 
 

Needless to say, I don’t really think we can take much from this year. 

[AuroranHusker]

I'm diggin' the process of Freddy & Co. They really know how to game plan. Once NU has its full complement of players available for implementing the Full Hoiberg, it's going to be SWEET (16).

[bball23]

6 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

I'm diggin' the process of Freddy & Co. They really know how to game plan. Once NU has its full complement of players available for implementing the Full Hoiberg, it's going to be SWEET (16).

This.  Last night was a great example of what the team is capable of.  The defensive game plan by Doc was nails!  

 

As I stated in my original post in this thread, if we can just make the "simple" shots we will be in games.  Fred's offense will get them to where they need to be, and Cam will find them. Cam Mack is a STUD.  He does things other guards we have had simply couldn't do.  That back door pass to Thor late in the game was flat out beautiful!

 

Fun game! Always great to beat Iowa!

 

GBR!

[GoBigRed]

IMO, next year's starters, if they are all here, are:

 

Mack

Allen

Banton

Stevenson (think he's a lot better than some may realize)

Walker

 

Off bench:

Burke

Cross

Thor

Ouedraogo

Easley

Green

Mayen

 

Let's just say there are some guys playing big minutes right now who will not play big minutes next year, just because you can't play 10-11 guys big minutes. 

 

 

[jayschool]

29 minutes ago, GoBigFred said:

IMO, next year's starters, if they are all here, are:

 

Mack

Allen

Banton

Stevenson (think he's a lot better than some may realize)

Walker

 

Off bench:

Burke

Cross

Thor

Ouedraogo

Easley

Green

Mayen

 

Let's just say there are some guys playing big minutes right now who will not play big minutes next year, just because you can't play 10-11 guys big minutes. 

 

 

Hard to keep Thor out of the lineup over Banton considering that Thor is proving himself against Big Ten competition. Banton might be the perfect 25-minutes-a-night sixth man Swiss Army knife we need off the bench.

1. Mack/Easley
2. Allen/Burke
3. Thor/Banton/Green
4. Stevenson/Cross/Arop
5. Walker/Ouedrago/Mayen

I expect at least two of those names (don't ask me which two) to not be on the roster next year, so this is for entertainment purposes only.

[GoBigRed]

6 minutes ago, jayschool said:

Hard to keep Thor out of the lineup over Banton considering that Thor is proving himself against Big Ten competition. Banton might be the perfect 25-minutes-a-night sixth man Swiss Army knife we need off the bench.

1. Mack/Easley
2. Allen/Burke
3. Thor/Banton/Green
4. Stevenson/Cross/Arop
5. Walker/Ouedrago/Mayen

I expect at least two of those names (don't ask me which two) to not be on the roster next year, so this is for entertainment purposes only.

 

Agreed they won't all be here. If Thor starts, it won't be over Banton. Stevenson maybe. Banton is a legit basketball player who is 6-8 with a long wingspan. We need him on the court as much as possible. 

[Norm Peterson]

@GoBigFred who are your next 3 after the starters?

[Norm Peterson]

44 minutes ago, GoBigFred said:

IMO, next year's starters, if they are all here, are:

 

Mack

Allen

Banton

Stevenson (think he's a lot better than some may realize)

Walker

 

So you're figuring only 1 returning active player in the starting lineup next year. Hmmm. 

 

That would be interesting if it happens. Not saying it won't. But definitely interesting if it does. Probably some degree of good news in terms of our prospects for the season if the three guys sitting out and one of the recruits are all able to bypass current roster players for spots in the starting lineup. That would mean three of next year's seniors, who would all have starting experience, would either be coming off the bench of not playing much at all.

[GoBigRed]

15 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

@GoBigFred who are your next 3 after the starters?

 

Based off what I've seen, and how I think these guys can improve before next year...I would guess:

 

Mack

Allen

Banton

Stevenson 

Walker

 

Off bench:

Burke

Cross

Thor

 

Yvan needs to get stronger, ideally he could redshirt next year because he is so young. With Walker, Banton, Mayen all here, we have a good number of 6-8, 6-9 options, and Cross and Stevenson are undersized guys who can still hold their own down low. 

Edited January 8, 2020 by GoBigFred

[Norm Peterson]

Next year, we'll have 3 seniors, 5 juniors and 4 sophomores, plus two spots that could be filled by anyone.

 

Three seniors would be Thor, Dachon and Jervay. @GoBigFred is predicting none of them would start, and that's possibly true.

 

As to the starters, he says "if they are all here."

 

52 minutes ago, GoBigFred said:

IMO, next year's starters, if they are all here, are:

 

Mack

Allen

Banton

Stevenson (think he's a lot better than some may realize)

Walker

 

I'm going to suggest I think it would be highly unlikely that any of his projected starters would be anywhere but here. I mean, Banton, Stevenson and Walker have already sat out a year. Very little incentive to burn another year of eligibility and transfer somewhere else. Teddy Allen just has to sign his LOI but I strongly believe he will. And Mack is in a really good position to play basically the exact role he wants to play, will probably get pre-season all-conference chatter, and would have precious little incentive to start over somewhere else.

 

So, if the above 5 are, in fact, the best 5, I think it's highly likely that group will be here intact next season. And those may very well be your starters.

[GoBigRed]

2 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Next year, we'll have 3 seniors, 5 juniors and 4 sophomores, plus two spots that could be filled by anyone.

 

Three seniors would be Thor, Dachon and Jervay. @GoBigFred is predicting none of them would start, and that's possibly true.

 

As to the starters, he says "if they are all here."

 

 

I'm going to suggest I think it would be highly unlikely that any of his projected starters would be anywhere but here. I mean, Banton, Stevenson and Walker have already sat out a year. Very little incentive to burn another year of eligibility and transfer somewhere else. Teddy Allen just has to sign his LOI but I strongly believe he will. And Mack is in a really good position to play basically the exact role he wants to play, will probably get pre-season all-conference chatter, and would have precious little incentive to start over somewhere else.

 

So, if the above 5 are, in fact, the best 5, I think it's highly likely that group will be here intact next season. And those may very well be your starters.

 

I would say of those 3, Dachon is most likely to start, then Thor, then Jervay. 

[jayschool]

40 minutes ago, GoBigFred said:

 

Agreed they won't all be here. If Thor starts, it won't be over Banton. Stevenson maybe. Banton is a legit basketball player who is 6-8 with a long wingspan. We need him on the court as much as possible. 

Not starting someone doesn't mean he won't be on the court quite a bit, including up to 30 minutes a game. Imagine Banton coming off the bench at the under 16 of each half and staying there, moving around in the lineup (1-4) so that other teams are always having to figure out how to match up with a 6-8 point/wing/whatever.

[Shawn Eichorst's Toupee]

Can we all just please agree to stop using the phrase "if he redshirts"? The only players who redshirt in basketball are walk-ons and dudes who just transferred and are ineligible. If Arop or Yvan or are redshirting next year, it's not going to be for the Huskers.

[khoock]

9 minutes ago, Shawn Eichorst's Toupee said:

Can we all just please agree to stop using the phrase "if he redshirts"? The only players who redshirt in basketball are walk-ons and dudes who just transferred and are ineligible. If Arop or Yvan or are redshirting next year, it's not going to be for the Huskers.

And injuries. But agreed. Very rarely do guys willingly redshirt. Especially AFTER their freshman year.

[Silverbacked1]

Well maybe one of those guys will get a mysterious injury that will cause them to red shirt.