Player Development

[JeffsBBall]

We can point to many shortcomings under Miles, but probably the biggest thing for me is the lack of developing players.  I just stick to this year's roster so that I don't fill up 2 pages with one post:

 

1)  Watson - if there's been any improvement in the past 2 seasons, I'd have to get very creative to see it.  Basically, we are getting a shell-shocked version of a pretty decent PG from 2016.  Miles has not developed more shot to his game or better field general-ness at all.  Close to the same guy he was 2 years ago.  

2)  Palmer - Miles never developed a mid range or 3 point shot improvement.  Great going to the hole, but again, same player as last year or regression possibly.  Great coaches round out the game of a guy like this and he could have been NBA material.  Now, he'll be riding the pine in Norway or something developing the game he should have in college.

3)  Allen - At times, I thought I had seen improvement, but that was false.  Close to same guy as last year.

4)  Big man et al - I don't even want to say anything here, that's how atrocious his development of any big man has ever been.  Can I give an F- on the final exam?

5)  Roby - See# 4.  Very little true development.  No improvement of his shot, post moves or mentality.  This one is shocking to me.  

 

Dear Michael Jacobsen- You're smarter than we thought you were.  Not a bad choice.

 

Let's get somebody in here who can be a complete coach.

[jimmykc]

Ditto for Morrow

[hskr4life]

Oh gee... look.... another NEW coach shortcoming thread.  Why why why do we keep starting a new thread to hash out the same old stuff.

Edited March 2, 2019 by hskr4life

[basketballjones]

7 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

Oh gee... look.... another NEW coach shortcoming thread.  Why why why do we keep starting a new thread to hash out the same old stuff.

I personally think it’s a legit issue. Worthy of a separate thread. We’re never going to be a 5 star destination, we will have to be a place where kids stay into their junior and senior years and can beat more talented teams with experience, man strength, and team-cohesiveness. 

 

If we cant develop players, which I agree with the OP, has shown to be a serious issue - we’ll never get to where we need to be. 

[Fastbreaker]

So why don't you just pass these threads by and not post on every single one, Mr everything is so bright and sunny with the program that Miles is just fine and should a given lifetime contract.

[HB]

3 minutes ago, Fastbreaker said:

So why don't you just pass these threads by and not post on every single one, Mr everything is so bright and sunny with the program that Miles is just fine and should a given lifetime contract.

 

That isn't remotely what 4Life is saying, and  you know it.    

[B-town hoopsfan]

There’s been a lot of misses in 7 years. That being said if guys stay there is some talent on this roster for the next guy to develop 

[Huskerpapa]

4 hours ago, basketballjones said:

I personally think it’s a legit issue. Worthy of a separate thread. We’re never going to be a 5 star destination, we will have to be a place where kids stay into their junior and senior years and can beat more talented teams with experience, man strength, and team-cohesiveness. 

 

If we cant develop players, which I agree with the OP, has shown to be a serious issue - we’ll never get to where we need to be. 

I struggle with the thread, because yes, it is piling on.  

 

I look at the assistants and the talent those assistants bring to the table and cannot believe they are not putting in the work to develop talent.   We fell apart this year.  Yup...there is absolutely no question that the failure to meet expectations can easily be blamed on the head coach, the assistants, the players and the administration.  What haven't we hit on so far???

[JeffsBBall]

11 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

I struggle with the thread, because yes, it is piling on.  

 

I look at the assistants and the talent those assistants bring to the table and cannot believe they are not putting in the work to develop talent.   We fell apart this year.  Yup...there is absolutely no question that the failure to meet expectations can easily be blamed on the head coach, the assistants, the players and the administration.  What haven't we hit on so far???

 

It's obviously not "piling on".  There is still a decision to debate regarding if the coach stays or not.  In making such a decision his track record of player development is what is in question, and if he has failed to meet expectations on that is an OPINION for anyone making a judgement.  This year is just the latest example.  Miles has accepted the money contracted and profited immensely attempting to get a job done that includes winning and developing talent.  The opinion of most on this board is that he has failed.  If you asked Miles, he'd probably tell you otherwise, that's his opinion.  

 

It's not all about "falling apart this year", it's about falling apart year-over-year while we all support the program.  We deserve a better value for our money as fans.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 2, 2019 by JeffsBBall
grammar

[throwback]

3 minutes ago, JeffsBBall said:

 

... There is still a decision to debate regarding if the coach stays or not.  ...

 

Uh, no.

 

This decision is over and has been obvious for weeks.

 

The only decision left is how quickly he is fired after the final buzzer sounds after our B1G Tourney loss and who the next coach is.

 

[hhcmatt]

6 minutes ago, JeffsBBall said:

 

It's obviously not "piling on".  There is still a decision to debate regarding if the coach stays or not.  In making such a decision his track record of player development is what is in question, and if he has failed to meet expectations on that is an OPINION for anyone making a judgement.  This year is just the latest example.  Miles has accepted the money contracted and profited immensely attempting to get a job done that includes winning and developing talent.  The opinion of most on this board is that he has failed.  If you asked Miles, he'd probably tell you otherwise, that's his opinion.  

 

It's not all about "falling apart this year", it's about falling apart year-over-year while we all support the program.  We deserve a better value for our money as fans.

 

He was gone before you registered for the site.  The argument essentially is whether or not we will replace him with someone who is putting up the same results in year 7 and blows up our current team/recruiting in the process.

[Huskerpapa]

18 minutes ago, JeffsBBall said:

 

It's obviously not "piling on".  There is still a decision to debate regarding if the coach stays or not.  In making such a decision his track record of player development is what is in question, and if he has failed to meet expectations on that is an OPINION for anyone making a judgement.  This year is just the latest example.  Miles has accepted the money contracted and profited immensely attempting to get a job done that includes winning and developing talent.  The opinion of most on this board is that he has failed.  If you asked Miles, he'd probably tell you otherwise, that's his opinion.  

 

It's not all about "falling apart this year", it's about falling apart year-over-year while we all support the program.  We deserve a better value for our money as fans.

 

 

 

 

So two questions; based upon what you have read in the plethora of threads regarding the subject, what else haven't we debated/discussed regarding the Miles decision?  Why another thread, why can't all the "debates" be placed under the same cover?

 

If you are saying players are not developing , I would opine that the problem is the assistant coaches and the strength and nutrition staff that is leveraged by the players.  The head coach has program responsibility, but the day-to-day development likely is the responsibility of the aforementioned staff (all of whom are under the watchful eye of the head coach).  So to me, if you are going to initiate this thread, title it Program Failure and then let all the nonfeasance be discussed in one simple thread?   

 

But I do appreciate your declaration that the decision has not been made.

Edited March 2, 2019 by Huskerpapa

[JeffsBBall]

1 hour ago, Huskerpapa said:

So two questions; based upon what you have read in the plethora of threads regarding the subject, what else haven't we debated/discussed regarding the Miles decision?  Why another thread, why can't all the "debates" be placed under the same cover?

 

If you are saying players are not developing , I would opine that the problem is the assistant coaches and the strength and nutrition staff that is leveraged by the players.  The head coach has program responsibility, but the day-to-day development likely is the responsibility of the aforementioned staff (all of whom are under the watchful eye of the head coach).  So to me, if you are going to initiate this thread, title it Program Failure and then let all the nonfeasance be discussed in one simple thread?   

 

But I do appreciate your declaration that the decision has not been made.

I'd agree that it may be opine to the question of the assistants being the reason for our lack of player development if we had had consistency in assistants over the past 7 years.  But, as you're likely aware, another thing Miles has done a poor job of is retaining a coaching staff.  The only consistency that has been here in the past 7 years in Miles.  Sometimes the most common denominator is the most logical conclusion.  

[brfrad]

8 hours ago, JeffsBBall said:

We can point to many shortcomings under Miles, but probably the biggest thing for me is the lack of developing players.  I just stick to this year's roster so that I don't fill up 2 pages with one post:

 

1)  Watson - if there's been any improvement in the past 2 seasons, I'd have to get very creative to see it.  Basically, we are getting a shell-shocked version of a pretty decent PG from 2016.  Miles has not developed more shot to his game or better field general-ness at all.  Close to the same guy he was 2 years ago.  

2)  Palmer - Miles never developed a mid range or 3 point shot improvement.  Great going to the hole, but again, same player as last year or regression possibly.  Great coaches round out the game of a guy like this and he could have been NBA material.  Now, he'll be riding the pine in Norway or something developing the game he should have in college.

3)  Allen - At times, I thought I had seen improvement, but that was false.  Close to same guy as last year.

4)  Big man et al - I don't even want to say anything here, that's how atrocious his development of any big man has ever been.  Can I give an F- on the final exam?

5)  Roby - See# 4.  Very little true development.  No improvement of his shot, post moves or mentality.  This one is shocking to me.  

 

Dear Michael Jacobsen- You're smarter than we thought you were.  Not a bad choice.

 

Let's get somebody in here who can be a complete coach.

Some players reach their full potential earlier than others.  That could be Watson.  Although, he is having a decent season this year.  Mostly non-conference.  Palmer has never been a good outside shooter.  The problem with Palmer was when we lost Copeland, the lane became clogged.  No one could spread the floor.  He shot 42 % from 2 before the injury, and has shot 32 % from 2 after the injury.  Allen is inconsistent which goes with playing full time for the first time.  Big man have not developed very well.  However, Ubel had a good senior season with Miles.  He turned it into a good career overseas.  Roby went from little interest from schools to a potential first round NBA draft pick.  Andrew White went from a little used player at Kansas to an NBA player.  Morrow has regressed at Marquette.  

 

Why do we have this narrative that Miles is a terrible coach?  Terrible coaches don't take a team who hasn't been to an NCAA tournament the previous 16 seasons, and take another school to their third at large bid in program history.  Terrible coaches don't finish with a school record 13 wins in a power conference (no matter how down the conference was according to sources).

 

He is a good coach.  It just didn't work out for him here.

[JeffsBBall]

1 hour ago, brfrad said:

Some players reach their full potential earlier than others.  That could be Watson.  Although, he is having a decent season this year.  Mostly non-conference.  Palmer has never been a good outside shooter.  The problem with Palmer was when we lost Copeland, the lane became clogged.  No one could spread the floor.  He shot 42 % from 2 before the injury, and has shot 32 % from 2 after the injury.  Allen is inconsistent which goes with playing full time for the first time.  Big man have not developed very well.  However, Ubel had a good senior season with Miles.  He turned it into a good career overseas.  Roby went from little interest from schools to a potential first round NBA draft pick.  Andrew White went from a little used player at Kansas to an NBA player.  Morrow has regressed at Marquette.  

 

Why do we have this narrative that Miles is a terrible coach?  Terrible coaches don't take a team who hasn't been to an NCAA tournament the previous 16 seasons, and take another school to their third at large bid in program history.  Terrible coaches don't finish with a school record 13 wins in a power conference (no matter how down the conference was according to sources).

 

He is a good coach.  It just didn't work out for him here.

Nobody said he was a terrible coach.  I don't think that's true.  

 

Good head coaches in D1 are ultimately judged by their ability to win.  He will be lucky to hold a career .500 record at NU when he is done.  He only beat McDermott once in 7 years.  He did not earn his paycheck.  Period.  No need to go to the extreme and accuse anyone of calling him terrible.  He's below average, and that won't cut it for 2.5 million.  Bring us the next guy.

Edited March 3, 2019 by JeffsBBall
word

[HB]

42 minutes ago, JeffsBBall said:

Nobody said he was a terrible coach.  I don't think that's true.  

 

Good head coaches in D1 are ultimately judged by their ability to win.  He will be lucky to hold a career .500 record at NU when he is done.  He only beat McDermott once in 7 years.  He did not earn his paycheck.  Period.  No need to go to the extreme and accuse anyone of calling him terrible.  He's below average, and that won't cut it for 2.5 million.  Bring us the next guy.

Brilliant.  How did you figure it out?  What would we do without you?

[cipsucks]

45 minutes ago, JeffsBBall said:

 

  No need to go to the extreme and accuse anyone of calling him terrible.  He's below average

 

Great self-analysis of your 9 posts.

[hskr4life]

57 minutes ago, JeffsBBall said:

Nobody said he was a terrible coach.  I don't think that's true.  

 

Good head coaches in D1 are ultimately judged by their ability to win.  He will be lucky to hold a career .500 record at NU when he is done.  He only beat McDermott once in 7 years.  He did not earn his paycheck.  Period.  No need to go to the extreme and accuse anyone of calling him terrible.  He's below average, and that won't cut it for 2.5 million.  Bring us the next guy.

 

Why do people (not just you) use wins against McDermott as a measure of success?  It drives me crazy how much emphasis some people place on that ONE game every single year.

 

In your post, you make it sound like only beating McDermott once in 7 years isn’t earning his paycheck.  I could give a damn if we get a coach that doesn’t even beat Creighton once as long as we win other games.

 

I hope... if we get a new coach... people stop using beating Creighton as a “measure of success.”  Is it a more fun, more passionate game?  Usually, yes.  But a measure of success?  Not at all.

[The Polish Rifle]

35 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

Why do people (not just you) use wins against McDermott as a measure of success?  It drives me crazy how much emphasis some people place on that ONE game every single year.

 

In your post, you make it sound like only beating McDermott once in 7 years isn’t earning his paycheck.  I could give a damn if we get a coach that doesn’t even beat Creighton once as long as we win other games.

 

I hope... if we get a new coach... people stop using beating Creighton as a “measure of success.”  Is it a more fun, more passionate game?  Usually, yes.  But a measure of success?  Not at all.

It's a rival. Creighton basketball, Iowa Basketball, Iowa Football - basically are what we now have in terms of rivals. I think if we had more success, we wouldn't put so much emphasis on the Creighton game - but we're not having success outside of Creighton or vs. Creighton, so people dwell on it. 

 

Also I'm sick of my friends tell me how we don't have the postseason success they do, nor do we beat them that often. I feel like i'm just explaining rivalries to you at this point.    

[hskr4life]

4 hours ago, The Polish Rifle said:

It's a rival. Creighton basketball, Iowa Basketball, Iowa Football - basically are what we now have in terms of rivals. I think if we had more success, we wouldn't put so much emphasis on the Creighton game - but we're not having success outside of Creighton or vs. Creighton, so people dwell on it. 

 

Also I'm sick of my friends tell me how we don't have the postseason success they do, nor do we beat them that often. I feel like i'm just explaining rivalries to you at this point.    

 

Thats fine and dandy.  But at the end of the day, it’s still one game.  No one every complains that Miles is 0-2 against Bill Self, has a losing record against how many  Big 10 coaches?  Almost all those games  are equally if not more important.

[HuskerFever]

3 hours ago, hskr4life said:

8 hours ago, The Polish Rifle said:

It's a rival. Creighton basketball, Iowa Basketball, Iowa Football - basically are what we now have in terms of rivals. I think if we had more success, we wouldn't put so much emphasis on the Creighton game - but we're not having success outside of Creighton or vs. Creighton, so people dwell on it. 

 

Also I'm sick of my friends tell me how we don't have the postseason success they do, nor do we beat them that often. I feel like i'm just explaining rivalries to you at this point.    

 

Thats fine and dandy.  But at the end of the day, it’s still one game.  No one every complains that Miles is 0-2 against Bill Self, has a losing record against how many  Big 10 coaches?  Almost all those games  are equally if not more important.

 

You're both right. That game doesn't matter any more or less than a lot of other games on the schedule. But when you're at a program with such a diluted conference history, postseason history, and much fewer in-state talent than most other states, that game matters more than it would for other programs.

 

Creighton was the stepchild for many years, but they're in a legitimate conference and aquiring some strong talent in a region where even Nebraska football has made excuses that it's hard to recruit in this region.

 

It's not that the two can't coexist to be successful; Marquette and Wisconsin is a prime example. But schools like Penn State oftentimes take a back seat to Pitt and Villanova, Rutgers to Seton Hall, Rhode Island to Providence, etc. when it comes to recruiting, coaching staffs, and on-the-court success. When that happens, people get uneasy and that game becomes exponentially more important to them to benchmark progress.

[huskerbaseball13]

6 hours ago, hskr4life said:

 

Thats fine and dandy.  But at the end of the day, it’s still one game.  No one every complains that Miles is 0-2 against Bill Self, has a losing record against how many  Big 10 coaches?  Almost all those games  are equally if not more important.

 

If you don’t understand you probably either don’t grasp rivalry games or do not live in Omaha/Nebraska. 

[HuskerPower #nato73]

I don't think it is fair to say someone like Palmer was not developed.  He came here (as did Petteway) as someone from a major school with not a lot of playing time and statistics.  After sitting out a year he had a great year as a junior and helped get us to 13 conference wins.

 

So why the regression? scouting an improved conference, frustration and post Copeland fewer driving lanes.  Still Petteway, Palmer and next up is Burke we had a development story to sell transfers.  So Miles could not make them NBA players?  Palmer was not one to begin with.

[basketballjones]

19 hours ago, Huskerpapa said:

I struggle with the thread, because yes, it is piling on.  

 

I look at the assistants and the talent those assistants bring to the table and cannot believe they are not putting in the work to develop talent.   We fell apart this year.  Yup...there is absolutely no question that the failure to meet expectations can easily be blamed on the head coach, the assistants, the players and the administration.  What haven't we hit on so far???

Sure.  But It it’s an internet message board. And people voluntarily come in here to discuss Nebraska basketball. Sometimes I and others don’t want to dig deep into an 8 page thread (or 20+ in some cases) to ask or discuss a specific thing we want to talk about. 

 

Dude wants to talk about player development. It clearly says it in the title of the post. If you don’t want to talk about it and would rather stay in another thread - do that. 

[JeffsBBall]

On 3/2/2019 at 10:18 PM, hskr4life said:

 

Why do people (not just you) use wins against McDermott as a measure of success?  It drives me crazy how much emphasis some people place on that ONE game every single year.

 

In your post, you make it sound like only beating McDermott once in 7 years isn’t earning his paycheck.  I could give a damn if we get a coach that doesn’t even beat Creighton once as long as we win other games.

 

I hope... if we get a new coach... people stop using beating Creighton as a “measure of success.”  Is it a more fun, more passionate game?  Usually, yes.  But a measure of success?  Not at all.

 

Creighton actually is a bigger game than our conference games for many other reasons.  The biggest one is that it is the first clear sign for the fans of this state which program is better than the other in a given year.  Then, a coach's record over a bigger sample (like 7 years) is a clear indicator of if his program has exceeded Creighton's over time.  

 

The great and bad thing about having Creighton around is that it's an accurate barometer of the state of NU's program.  Mile's has been abysmal at beating them, and sure enough the cracks in the program are now so bad that it all makes sense.  If Miles were 5-2 against Creighton over 7 years, he'd probably still have a job in 2 weeks.  Not because of his record vs Creighton, but because if you had a program capable of 5-2, you probably wouldn't be in the position you're in right now.

 

We should, at the very minimum, beat Creighton 50% of the time.  There is no reason for their dominance over us.  We have better a opportunity to build a program than they do, not the other way around.