What do you suppose Hoiberg's (unwritten) metric was?

[uneblinstu]

 

39 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Can anyone explain to me WHY people went so hard on this? Who the F cares? It seems to me like there's something else going on here (potentially from Frost's camp? Lawsuit coming?) that we don't know about. 

It's more about setting a precedent than it is about knowing what the metrics were. If USA Today hadn't done it, the local papers would have. They put in FOIA requests, too. The thinking is that if they can keep this private, what else can they keep private in other situations? It doesn't have anything to do with whether the fans care about what they were.

[Nighthawk]

Totally agree that Coach needs to produce this year or he's gone.  Don't know...do we have a donor that will pay up like the football program has?  I know someday the players on the teams from the last three years will probably return for the game where prior players come back (can't think of the words at the moment).  I will say that this fan will not be cheering when/if they return.  They did nothing positive for this program. Hope this current team reverses that trend.

[throwback]

When the AD decides it's obviously time to fire a coach & hire a new one, the buyout money & new contract money at a P5 school like Nebraska will always be available. It's never a problem.

 

[HuskerFever]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

I want to know what metrics I am supposed to meet for @hhcmatt to give me some sort of credentials or something here. 

 

[Chuck Taylor]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

Heat on Hoiberg after 3 straight 20-loss seasons at Nebraska (3newsnow.com)

Maybe this has been reported before, but startling nevertheless.

Quote

Hoiberg wants the Huskers to take on a greater defensive identity. In eight seasons as a college coach, Hoiberg has had only one team finish higher than 245th nationally in scoring defense.

 

 

 

[NUdiehard]

1 hour ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Maybe this has been reported before, but startling nevertheless.

 

 

 

 

Admittedly, Hoiberg has never been known as a defensive first coach.  But this statistic is absurdly misleading.  Anyone who doesn't understand the necessity of using tempo-adjusted statistics for basketball is not qualified to write about basketball.

 

In Fred' second season at Nebraska (2020-21), NU finished 40th in Kenpom adjusted defensive efficiency.  As a comparison, Miles' teams finished: 79, 44, 77, 113, 31, 36, 107.

[Cowboy Kermit]

“Be better”


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cowboy Kermit]

But in all seriousness the few quotes Trev gave about basketball last year involved playing style and wanting to see a team Nebraska fans can root for stuck out, and that’s what Fred and Co. have emphasized x10000 this off-season.

[cornfed24-7]

22 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

Anyone who doesn't understand the necessity of using tempo-adjusted statistics for basketball is not qualified to write about basketball.

Seems more than qualified to me...maybe you just don't like what he has to say

[Chuck Taylor]

56 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

 

Admittedly, Hoiberg has never been known as a defensive first coach.  But this statistic is absurdly misleading.  Anyone who doesn't understand the necessity of using tempo-adjusted statistics for basketball is not qualified to write about basketball.

 

In Fred' second season at Nebraska (2020-21), NU finished 40th in Kenpom adjusted defensive efficiency.  As a comparison, Miles' teams finished: 79, 44, 77, 113, 31, 36, 107.

My thought on the points is that we need to keep scores absurdly low to have our best chance to win. His team with 40 KenPom D finished 7-20.

[hhcmatt]

4 hours ago, OmahaHusker said:

 

I think USA Today went all in right after the Frost firing to get these public record metrics. Little did they know that literally no one cares among the fan base that Frost got fired, so the metrics and story aren't near the click bait they thought it would be. From the outside looking in, you have a native son getting fired 3 games in. For us, we all expected it anyway.

 

And in regards to Hoiberg's metrics, no one cares regardless. I'm surprised they even looked into those in the first place. They just need to pass the eye ball test, show progress, and get close to .500 is what I'm assuming Trev is looking for. 

 

No, USA Today went in on this way before Frost was fired. The trouble was that Frost's tenure moved faster than the legal system on this one.

 

[hhcmatt]

4 hours ago, basketballjones said:

I want to know what metrics I am supposed to meet for @hhcmatt to give me some sort of credentials or something here. 

 

This is more of a street cred type organization

[hhcmatt]

14 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Not sure it's a concrete result. I think it's more in line with what @nustudent laid out. The results on the court/field are similar when comparing Frost and Hoiberg, but I think that's about where the similarities end. I think Fred actually has a chance to right the ship. I never had faith Frost had that ability.

 

I think you guys are conflating "metrics to return your contract to normal" and "what do i need to do to keep my job".

By definition a metric is a quantifiable measure. 

[fr8-train]

25 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

No, USA Today went in on this way before Frost was fired. The trouble was that Frost's tenure moved faster than the legal system on this one.

 

And Trev probably expected that to be the case, hence forcing it to be challenged in court rather than offering it up.  Good move strategically to make it a non-issue by the time it became public rather than causing embarrassment to or putting undue pressure on Frost/the Program.  Granted, if I recall correctly, Alberts made the mistake of mentioning there were specific metrics in an interview when it probably wasn't necessary to appropriately address the question.  

[Norm Peterson]

43 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I think you guys are conflating "metrics to return your contract to normal" and "what do i need to do to keep my job".

By definition a metric is a quantifiable measure. 

 

Well, yeah, and "literally" literally means "in actual fact," but people often use it to mean something emphatically figurative.

 

Similarly, while "metric" means "quantifiable measure," there were still aspects of the "metric" for Frost that weren't quantifiable, i.e., "show ... improvement."

 

And, yes, there was some conflating. But I suspect the line was the same for both. In other words, do these things and you get your compensation back; don't do them and you're done.

[NUdiehard]

6 hours ago, 49r said:

 

I mean, that right there is more than cause enough to get fired IMO.  The only reason he's even still around is simply because of the horrible malfeasance on Bill Moos' part in writing a ridiculous contract.

 

Its impossible to defend the past 3 seasons which have been very poor.  But this is another statistic that could use some context.  No other coach in NU history has been required to play a 20 conference game schedule, and especially not during a period of such comprehensive strength as in the Big 10.   For instance, in Fred's 2nd season (2020-21), the team finished 7-20, but it's final KenPom ranking was #109.  Certainly not good, but not historically the worst ever.  For instance, in 2006, Collier's record was 19-14 which sounds great, but his KenPom year-end KenPom ranking was #111.  Miles first year record was 15-18, but his year-end KenPom was #136.  Obviously, Miles had some very good seasons mixed in his tenure, and the point is not to compare the coaches record or performance, but just to show that judging solely by overall record can be a bit misleading as to the state of the program because it doesn't factor in level of competition.

 

This season is going to be a prime example of this. Based on preseason KenPom, Huskers may play 22 games against teams ranked #56 or better and possibly only 4 teams ranked lower than #109. 

[Norm Peterson]

16 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

This season is going to be a prime example of this. Based on preseason KenPom, Huskers may play 22 games against teams ranked #56 or better and possibly only 4 teams ranked lower than #109. 

 

And those four teams are ranked #351, #330, #361, and #227.

[uneblinstu]

2 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

I think you guys are conflating "metrics to return your contract to normal" and "what do i need to do to keep my job".

By definition a metric is a quantifiable measure. 

I read you, and I don't think that those terms are as black and white as a specific number of wins or losses or end of season placement. I think it's quite a bit more opaque than that.

[49r]

20 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

And those four teams are ranked #351, #330, #361, and #227.

 

And I still don't trust Fred to not lose at least one of those games.

[Norm Peterson]

4 minutes ago, 49r said:

And I still don't trust Fred to not lose at least one of those games.

 

Once bit, twice shy.

[cornfed24-7]

47 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

 

Its impossible to defend the past 3 seasons which have been very poor.  But this is another statistic that could use some context.  No other coach in NU history has been required to play a 20 conference game schedule, and especially not during a period of such comprehensive strength as in the Big 10.   For instance, in Fred's 2nd season (2020-21), the team finished 7-20, but it's final KenPom ranking was #109.  Certainly not good, but not historically the worst ever.  For instance, in 2006, Collier's record was 19-14 which sounds great, but his KenPom year-end KenPom ranking was #111.  Miles first year record was 15-18, but his year-end KenPom was #136.  Obviously, Miles had some very good seasons mixed in his tenure, and the point is not to compare the coaches record or performance, but just to show that judging solely by overall record can be a bit misleading as to the state of the program because it doesn't factor in level of competition.

 

This season is going to be a prime example of this. Based on preseason KenPom, Huskers may play 22 games against teams ranked #56 or better and possibly only 4 teams ranked lower than #109. 

How about worst record of any power 5 coach over the last 3 years. Surely we can judge him against his peers.

[hhcmatt]

Fred Hoiberg has one more B1G conference win than Eddie Jordan. The context is his combination of buyout and likeability.  Really hope the problem was the assistant(s).

[jimmykc]

Metrics, Schmetrics. Fred will keep his job as long as a sufficient number of fans continue to show up to watch his team play.  (Of course, this won't happen if losses continue to accumulate).

[Handy Johnson]

4 hours ago, 49r said:

 

And I still don't trust Fred to not lose at least one of those games.

You beat me to it. I was going to say, “so let’s hope for a split”…

[HuscurAdam]

Stay out of the 1st day of the B1G tournament

   - OR - 

Finish at 0.500 record or better

   - OR - 

Look like a competent & competitive team every night, even if the final record is a bit below 0.500