Gutless statement from Moos

Shawn Eichorst's Toupee · March 16, 2019

Here's what I keep coming back to. Moos could have easily prevented ALL of this kerfluffle by releasing a statement post-Iowa, pre-Big Ten Tourney and said "Wow, what a great comeback. We have positive momentum heading into post-season play and we have the draw to make a run. Regardless of what post-season tournaments we end up in, I'll wait until our season is officially complete before making a decision on Tim's status as a head coach."

Maybe I'm naive, but doesn't that cover all bases from 0-1 against Rutgers to 5-0 NCAA bid?

HB · March 16, 2019

2 minutes ago, Shawn Eichorst's Toupee said:

Here's what I keep coming back to. Moos could have easily prevented ALL of this kerfluffle by releasing a statement post-Iowa, pre-Big Ten Tourney and said "Wow, what a great comeback. We have positive momentum heading into post-season play and we have the draw to make a run. Regardless of what post-season tournaments we end up in, I'll wait until our season is officially complete before making a decision on Tim's status as a head coach."

Maybe I'm naive, but doesn't that cover all bases from 0-1 against Rutgers to 5-0 NCAA bid?

Yeah, it's not that hard

ladyhusker · March 16, 2019

1 hour ago, Borderpatroler said:

I'm sorry, I always get confused when the guy next to me at games starts up on this. In comparison to other like programs in terms of conference, geography, and financial ability....could you please elaborate on how the administration hasn't taken the program "seriously"? I frequent Kansas State games and on occasion, Wichita State. I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that our administration has provided exponentially better facilities and financial backing into our basketball program than either of those two. One thing that I really don't think has any credibility to explain away our lack of tournament appearances in the past 7 years is a blame on administrative backing. That sounds like sour grapes to me.

I mean... it's been detailed pretty extensively throughout the board over the last few weeks, if not last several years. But off the top of my head:

- This statement, both in its content and rollout. Why was it necessary? Why was there no statement of congratulations? Regardless of personal opinion, it was a point of contention both in the fanbase and the national media, and that adds to our perception of indifference if not actual incompetence.

- The athletic director's lack of attendance at games, at home and at this tournament

- The randomly-enforced "rule" with regard to outside consultants

- The lack of contract extensions, as well as their rollout. Again, regardless of personal opinion, any time you can use the term "twisting in the wind" to describe the relationship between athletic director and coach, it's a bad thing -- and that's something that Miles has had to deal with not once but three times now, twice by the same (current) athletic director. Even if you think the lack of extension was the right move, the perception nationally is not good, and the rollout of it was an unmitigated disaster.

- The recruiting issues that Kent alluded to, as well as Robin Washut in previous years

- The ticket office apparently forgetting (?) to send out postseason ticket information -- it's either that they forgot or they intentionally chose not to, but either way, it isn't a good look

That's all been in the last year alone. I'm not even counting the Roburt Sallie thing, the Shim Shams thing (and the underlying ambivalence that led to it), the relatively low spending compared to the rest of our conference, the lowballing for the new facilities until donors got involved, or the fact that it took until 2011 to actually build one in the first place. Individually none of these things really hinders our lack of performance when it comes to NCAA tournament wins. However, I do think it demonstrates a pretty noticeable trend of athletic department indifference (at best), and this is all just what we see publicly. So I think it's also fairly safe to say that the department's commitment to men's basketball is pretty lacking. It's possible to win in spite of that, but why would you not just work to get everyone invested, rowing together, and clear away the obstacles rather than create them?

tcp · March 16, 2019

I keep this simple: basketball is a revenue sport. Generally only one of two for most schools.

You invest in and back revenue sports. They'll return the favor.

And even if this weren't true, you should back them anyway, because it would make me happy. And if there is any other overriding priority than that, I'd sure love to hear it. (which means I really don't want to hear it, because I like my bubble).

AuroranHusker · March 16, 2019

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I preferred Devaney to be quite honest. I still go to the games; I'm not boycotting the place. But PBA is NOT why I go to the games.

*same

royalfan · March 16, 2019

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I preferred Devaney to be quite honest. I still go to the games; I'm not boycotting the place. But PBA is NOT why I go to the games.

I did too, but for a much different reason. We were able to shoot where we played a lot more. I think that hinders us a bit at PBA.

AuroranHusker · March 16, 2019

1 minute ago, royalfan said:

I did too, but for a much different reason. We were able to shoot where we played a lot more. I think that hinders us a bit at PBA.

Yep.

Devaney was a true home court advantage. PBA is just another giant arena where NU is merely one of two participants in any particular game.

LNKtrnsplnt · March 16, 2019

3 hours ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

You really believe the attendance boost has zero to do with building PBA? You think the Devaney would be filled to the rafters right now? Wow, okay...i disagree.

If we are to assume this great talent is the truth...why has the product on the court been mediocre at best?

Maybe slightly. But I think miles hilmself has brought more excitement to the program than a generic arena. Location is a plus, and I’m sure adds some butts to the seats.

Moos is still a little b.

nebrasketball10 · March 16, 2019

10 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

Yep.

Devaney was a true home court advantage. PBA is just another giant arena where NU is merely one of two participants in any particular game.

PBA appeared to be a pretty big home court advantage before the second half of this year.

I probably preferred The Bob, but mostly due to nostalgia.

ladyhusker · March 16, 2019

1 hour ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Source that we’re 11th in spending?

In 2016-17 we were #10, but only just barely ahead of Iowa ($7.6M vs $7.5M).

https://www.nj.com/rutgersbasketball/2018/04/how_much_does_rutgers_spend_on_mens_basketball_and.html

That article was published in April of 2018 about the previous year. I'm not sure if there's been anything published for 2017-18 yet, but if timelines hold, I'd probably expect something in the next month or so from one source or another.

Red Don · March 16, 2019

Hear, Hear, @ladyhusker!

I've only recently (compared to the rest on this board) become interested in Husker Hoops (just after the Tim MIles hire - that means I'm Not a Long-Suffering Husker Hoops Fan; Rather I'm a short-suffering fan).

The lack of support shown for the Hoops program by the Administration is nothing short of Shocking; and signals lack of an 'All-In Commitment' necessary to develop a top-flight program. I could maybe understand this a little more if we were still in our former conference (not to denigrate the Big 8, 12, 10), but with a move to an acknowledged top-flight basketball conference, and attendant financial support like the Big Ten provides, lack of a dedication to upgrade your own program to match is inconceivable. (@jimmychitwood has an excellent point, why would a proven coach with a winning record even consider a place that refuses to match his own level of commitment to the game?)

I'm not a big Moos fan but he did what he was hired to do, make it palatable for Scott Frost to come. As far as basketball, he was in a near impossible situation, having to decide yea or nay after only one year with the program. I don't agree with, but understand his continuing the 'Russian-Roulette' strategy with Coach Miles implemented by that motivational genius, Shawn Eichorst.

Going forward, I agree with those that believe a 'house-cleaning' is needed; But Not necessarily in the Coaching, Training or Player ranks. Think about it, the AD has changed, but his support staff not so much. Isn't the basketball staff relatively unchanged over the past decade or so of mediocrity? Where is the accountability? - They continue on, and on, safe and snug in their positions regardless of results.

New thinking, new vigour, new enthusiasm and dedication to excellence is needed across the board. Ladyhusker gives several examples (PR for instance); I can add the debacle over honoring past players (Lue, for example); I'm sure you all can add your own examples.

Some think the necessary decisions go higher than the AD. I am encouraged by this prospect, as I don't think that Bounds, or Green are going to settle for more of the same, i.e. Mediocrity.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Red Don

The Polish Rifle · March 16, 2019

My argument why our current problem stems from coaching. Yes, I got sick of setting up the babies nursery so I put this together. I provided teams that have the same challenges as us, yet have had NCAA success that we want to emulate.

Spending

Nebraska - $7,771,106 in expenses

Iowa - $8,113,263 in expenses

Iowa St - $6,851,315 in expenses

Kansas St - $7,591,505 in expenses

Minnesota - $8,765,442 in expenses

*These are last years numbers I pulled from the department of education's website

Talent

Nebraska - 60th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Iowa - 60th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Iowa St - 48th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Kansas St - 81st ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Minnesota - 45th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

*These are 247 class rankings 2015-2018

Attandance

Nebraska - 15,400/game over the last 4 years

Iowa - 13,100/game over the last 4 years

Iowa St - 14,200/game over the last 4 years

Kansas St - 11,125/game over the last 4 years

Minnesota - 11,225/game over the last 4 years

*From NCAA website

So our spending is in line with our successful compadres, our talent is in line with our successful companions, we're getting more fan support than our successful friends. So the question is, why can these teams consistently make the NCAA tournament while we can't? Some might argue their ADs attend more basketball games....Some may argue that they have hired better coaches. Put me in the group that thinks our coaches aren't the level to get us as a consistent NCAA tournament team, like our geographical mates. If Tim is the coach going forward, he has to be better - the last 7 years can't be the next 7 years. Are we asking a zebra to change it's stripes?

AuroranHusker · March 16, 2019

2 hours ago, nebrasketball10 said:

PBA appeared to be a pretty big home court advantage before the second half of this year.

I probably preferred The Bob, but mostly due to nostalgia.

I don't think Nebraska has ever had a huge home-court advantage. That's KU at The Phog.

But, I do understand the point about NU playing better than average at home compared to its play 'away.'

AuroranHusker · March 16, 2019

1 hour ago, The Polish Rifle said:

My argument why our current problem stems from coaching. Yes, I got sick of setting up the babies nursery so I put this together. I provided teams that have the same challenges as us, yet have had NCAA success that we want to emulate.

Spending

Nebraska - $7,771,106 in expenses

Iowa - $8,113,263 in expenses

Iowa St - $6,851,315 in expenses

Kansas St - $7,591,505 in expenses

Minnesota - $8,765,442 in expenses

*These are last years numbers I pulled from the department of education's website

Talent

Nebraska - 60th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Iowa -   60th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Iowa St - 48th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Kansas St - 81st ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Minnesota - 45th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

*These are 247 class rankings 2015-2018

Attandance

Nebraska - 15,400/game over the last 4 years

Iowa -   13,100/game over the last 4 years

Iowa St - 14,200/game over the last 4 years

Kansas St - 11,125/game over the last 4 years

Minnesota - 11,225/game over the last 4 years

*From NCAA website

So our spending is in line with our successful compadres, our talent is in line with our successful companions, we're getting more fan support than our successful friends.  So the question is, why can these teams consistently make the NCAA tournament while we can't? Some might argue their ADs attend more basketball games....Some may argue that they have hired better coaches. Put me in the group that thinks our coaches aren't the level to get us as a consistent NCAA tournament team, like our geographical mates. If Tim is the coach going forward, he has to be better - the last 7 years can't be the next 7 years. Are we asking a zebra to change it's stripes?

Coach Miles is a fine gentleman, I wish him well. I hope for so much more for Nebraska basketball as far as its future. And, that's not really knocking the current staff. It's all about expectations with Nebrasketball. What do ppl expect? If you expect mediocrity, you generally receive mediocrity. Not necessarily getting great success when you expect great success, that's a whole different story. But, the bottom line is what it is: "You are who we thought you were." -the late Denny Green

Edited March 16, 2019 by AuroranHusker

hhcscott · March 16, 2019

37 minutes ago, The Polish Rifle said:

My argument why our current problem stems from coaching. Yes, I got sick of setting up the babies nursery so I put this together. I provided teams that have the same challenges as us, yet have had NCAA success that we want to emulate.

Spending

Nebraska - $7,771,106 in expenses

Iowa - $8,113,263 in expenses

Iowa St - $6,851,315 in expenses

Kansas St - $7,591,505 in expenses

Minnesota - $8,765,442 in expenses

*These are last years numbers I pulled from the department of education's website

Talent

Nebraska - 60th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Iowa -   60th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Iowa St - 48th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Kansas St - 81st ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

Minnesota - 45th ranked recruiting class on average over the last 4 years

*These are 247 class rankings 2015-2018

Attandance

Nebraska - 15,400/game over the last 4 years

Iowa -   13,100/game over the last 4 years

Iowa St - 14,200/game over the last 4 years

Kansas St - 11,125/game over the last 4 years

Minnesota - 11,225/game over the last 4 years

*From NCAA website

So our spending is in line with our successful compadres, our talent is in line with our successful companions, we're getting more fan support than our successful friends.  So the question is, why can these teams consistently make the NCAA tournament while we can't? Some might argue their ADs attend more basketball games....Some may argue that they have hired better coaches. Put me in the group that thinks our coaches aren't the level to get us as a consistent NCAA tournament team, like our geographical mates. If Tim is the coach going forward, he has to be better - the last 7 years can't be the next 7 years. Are we asking a zebra to change it's stripes?

Thanks for the data. It certainly points to the coaching deficiency, but that is one of the concerns about the commitment. Every program you noted has had coaches who were household names or coaches who were good enough to step up to bigger opportunities, who has left Nebraska for a better job? Ask anyone outside Nebraska to name two Nebraska basketball coaches. They can't.

We don't get the coaches who will make a difference because the impression, right or wrong, is that this is a career killer. We got a perfect storm of recruits in the early 90s and it is our last big splash, but Danny vs Roy, Johnny, Dana, Billy, Lon, Larry, Eddie, or Norm...? How did those years even happen? We've never been close to a hire like those coaches.

hhcscott · March 16, 2019

3 hours ago, cipsucks said:

Dave Van Horn might disagree.

On which part? The last time I followed baseball Puckett played for the Twins, so I'm not up on the challenges of the baseball program.

AuroranHusker · March 16, 2019

2 hours ago, Bill Self's Toupee said:

Never been to a game at PBA (health issues with my folks), but it appears from TV that we have a slightly better advantage on court at PBA than at the Bob. This is based on an only-from-the-Bob vs only-from-PBA-TV point of view, though.

That probably corresponds to an increased talent level more so than merely the change of venue.

Husker4theSpurs · March 16, 2019

6 hours ago, brfrad said:

Our 22 wins last year, got us a road game for the NIT. 18 wins this year, gets us a home game in the NIT. Unless you truly believe we were suppose to be in the tournament, this is the exact same season as last year. The only difference is the Big 10 was a grind this year, and we lost Copeland with 12 games left.

I look at sports-reference.com. Their rating system based on schedules makes this the 2nd best season in school history, behind the 26 - 8 team. Last year's was 10th. Their SOS metric's top 3 seasons in school history have been Miles' led teams.

Unfortunately, on paper this team was worse than last coming in ... I have always felt this way. Of course this is assuming those coming back don't improve ... which tends to be safe under Miles.

Huskerone · March 17, 2019

5 hours ago, ladyhusker said:

I mean... it's been detailed pretty extensively throughout the board over the last few weeks, if not last several years. But off the top of my head:

- This statement, both in its content and rollout. Why was it necessary? Why was there no statement of congratulations? Regardless of personal opinion, it was a point of contention both in the fanbase and the national media, and that adds to our perception of indifference if not actual incompetence.

- The athletic director's lack of attendance at games, at home and at this tournament

- The randomly-enforced "rule" with regard to outside consultants

- The lack of contract extensions, as well as their rollout. Again, regardless of personal opinion, any time you can use the term "twisting in the wind" to describe the relationship between athletic director and coach, it's a bad thing -- and that's something that Miles has had to deal with not once but three times now, twice by the same (current) athletic director. Even if you think the lack of extension was the right move, the perception nationally is not good, and the rollout of it was an unmitigated disaster.

- The recruiting issues that Kent alluded to, as well as Robin Washut in previous years

- The ticket office apparently forgetting (?) to send out postseason ticket information -- it's either that they forgot or they intentionally chose not to, but either way, it isn't a good look

That's all been in the last year alone. I'm not even counting the Roburt Sallie thing, the Shim Shams thing (and the underlying ambivalence that led to it), the relatively low spending compared to the rest of our conference, the lowballing for the new facilities until donors got involved, or the fact that it took until 2011 to actually build one in the first place. Individually none of these things really hinders our lack of performance when it comes to NCAA tournament wins. However, I do think it demonstrates a pretty noticeable trend of athletic department indifference (at best), and this is all just what we see publicly. So I think it's also fairly safe to say that the department's commitment to men's basketball is pretty lacking. It's possible to win in spite of that, but why would you not just work to get everyone invested, rowing together, and clear away the obstacles rather than create them?

Wow, listing it all out like that really hits it home for me. Great post. This tells me Miles is the least of our problems. How can an athletic administration be so lacking. And folks think we're going to get a top coach to come here?

The Polish Rifle · March 17, 2019

2 hours ago, hhcscott said:

Thanks for the data. It certainly points to the coaching deficiency, but that is one of the concerns about the commitment. Every program you noted has had coaches who were household names or coaches who were good enough to step up to bigger opportunities, who has left Nebraska for a better job? Ask anyone outside Nebraska to name two Nebraska basketball coaches. They can't.

We don't get the coaches who will make a difference because the impression, right or wrong, is that this is a career killer. We got a perfect storm of recruits in the early 90s and it is our last big splash, but Danny vs Roy, Johnny, Dana, Billy, Lon, Larry, Eddie, or Norm...? How did those years even happen? We've never been close to a hire like those coaches.

Yep and I agree with commitment problems on certain issues. And I agree we need the big name - it’s time. I’m praying we go get a guy that make people go ‘wow Nebraska just went all in’. Will a coach like that come? People say not in our current climate. I’d argue the pull of a top 20 salary, a 15k sold out arena, a budget that rivals consistently relevant programs, a asst pool to bring in whom ever he pleases, a plane to recruit nationwide. It’s definitely gonna take a guy with a killer mindset and not afraid of a challenge. High risk - massive reward.

rwhiston · March 17, 2019

One of my best friends is an Iowa St Alum and fan and the more I see his program succeed the more I think Jamie Pollard would be a great fit at Nebraska. He makes great hires, midwest guy, his daughter runs Track/Cross Country at Nebraska. Also how frustrating was it watching Halliburton and Jacobson win the Big XII tournament.

hskr4life · March 17, 2019

Since we’re all conspiracy theoring... I will throw one out there that would be absolutely hilarious.

The committee can’t decide on a last team. They like our story with limited players and never having won a tournament game. So they put us in the first four in Dayton against a team like Belmont.

I’d love to see the look on Moos’ face. Would love to. Ok back to reality. Time to do the dishes.

hhcscott · March 17, 2019

1 hour ago, rwhiston said:

One of my best friends is an Iowa St Alum and fan and the more I see his program succeed the more I think Jamie Pollard would be a great fit at Nebraska. He makes great hires, midwest guy, his daughter runs Track/Cross Country at Nebraska. Also how frustrating was it watching Halliburton and Jacobson win the Big XII tournament.

But...if there is a track and field practice two days after Nebraska's third round game of the B1G tournament will Pollard be at the game? Asking for 15k friends.

Handy Johnson · March 17, 2019

Minnesota made a “splash hire” with Tubby Smith and he had a losing Conference record every year he was there. Look at the way Tim interacts with his players, represents this program and the State. Can you put a dollar amount on that? It’s a bottom line business, but I’d rather roll with him and this roster moving forward than assume more money & a “bigger” name is a cure all.

Edited March 17, 2019 by Handy Johnson

hhcscott · March 17, 2019

6 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

Minnesota made a “splash hire” with Tubby Smith and he had a losing Conference record every year he was there. Look at the way Tim interacts with his players, represents this program and the State. Can you put a dollar amount on that? It’s a bottom line business, but I’d rather roll with him and this roster moving forward and than assume more money & a “bigger” name is a cure all.

I like Tim. I'd like to see him be successful. What is going to be different in year 8 than in years 1-7?

If I'm the AD, LAST YEAR, I sit down and work out a plan, ask "What do you need?" agree to a real extension but reduce/eliminate the termination buyout. I let him bring in consultants and find veteran mentors. As the AD, I say positive things every week, especially during 11 and 2, but even during the slide. I embrace Miles and spare no expense to make sure there is every chance to succeed. If, at the end of the season, the record is unacceptable then I wish him well and move on, offering Tim the position of associate Athletic Director for Basketball.

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