Coaches that you think should be on Nebraska's list, if this trend continues

[uneblinstu]

20 minutes ago, cozrulz said:

 

One thing I wonder.  This is only the 2nd year with a new AD.  Should we somewhat discount the first two years?  What does the plan look like going forward?  Is this year building a winning culture/formula?  If this were year 2 how are we feeling?  If the AD and head coach have a new plan do we give that more time?

I think that's the debate. And really, the only ones that know that at this point are Trev and Fred. We'll all find out soon enough, at least for next year.

[uneblinstu]

1 hour ago, cornfed24-7 said:

Yes. But until this year Hoiberg hasn't shown an ability to be able to handle that nature one bit. And this year he's just barely above scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of success. 

But this year is the most recent result. If he'd had this year in year one or two then gone backwards, I think I'd feel differently. But instead, he put together a decent team, though it lacked some depth. To me, it feels like the start of something. I'm curious if Trev feels that way, too.

[huskerbaseball13]

2 hours ago, uneblinstu said:

Perhaps, but Fred's also a smart guy and I believe Trev said Fred presented him a plan about how he wanted to adjust. I'll take him at his work on that. But even if Trev did mandate the changes Fred was the one who had to execute it. I'd argue he did until the injuries hit. If he gets another year, he'll have to build on what happned this year. And probably not what the final record will be but what the program looked like in the middle third of the season.

We can probably guess what that plan is but the question is, how long of a reset is Trev giving Hoiberg? Is this basically year 1?

 

Fred will be owed 11 million if he’s fired this year. Maybe I’m wrong but he’s not going anywhere. We have some decent pieces to build off of next year but he needs to land some home runs down low and at PG next year. 

[NUdiehard]

5 hours ago, FredsSlacks said:

the problem with running it back is we're losing at least 3 starters from this team after this year.

 

The three seniors will be a big loss.  But it seems most teams in the B1G are starting A LOT of seniors.  If anyone wants to take the time, I would be interested in the number of seniors in each teams starting 5.  Seems like the portal has a lot to do with this, as a lot of teams are bringing in junior/senior transfers and then putting them in the starting lineup.  If so, then most teams are in the same boat in losing their starters.

 

It also seems like the super seniors (who received the extra covid years) are finally starting to graduate out of the system.  This should help level the playing field a little bit.  

 

But yes, Fred (if he returns) still has to bring in the dudes from the portal.  It will all come down to who he can get to transfer here next year. 

[cornfed24-7]

2 hours ago, cozrulz said:

 

One thing I wonder.  This is only the 2nd year with a new AD.  Should we somewhat discount the first two years?  What does the plan look like going forward?  Is this year building a winning culture/formula?  If this were year 2 how are we feeling?  If the AD and head coach have a new plan do we give that more time?

I get this line of thinking. And it seems to be what a lot in this board have coalesced around. I just don’t buy it. I don't discount any of his record. It's his record. I don't buy that Hoiberg came up with this new "plan" anymore than I buy Frost wanted to step away from play calling. Of course I'd feel different if this was year 2. But it's not. It's year 4. Probably another 20 loss season. And it just can't muster any more optimism about Hoiberg. He's been an absolute disaster. 

[49r]

23 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

I would be interested in the number of seniors in each teams starting 5.

 

I'll do my best here I'll do Seniors and Juniors.  This is going by KenPom info and of course starting lineups change so it's not an exact science so YMMV:

 

Indiana:  2 SR, 1 JR

Illinois:  2 SR, 1 JR

Iowa:  2 SR, 3 JR

Maryland:  4-5(ish) SR, 1 JR

Michigan:  0 SR, 2 JR

Michigan State:  3 SR, 1 JR

Minnesota:  1 SR, 2 JR

Nebraska:  3 SR, 2 JR (before season ending injuries)

Northwestern:  3 SR, 2 JR

Ohio State:  2 SR, 1 JR

Penn State:  4 SR, 1 JR

Purdue:  0 SR, 3 JR

Rutgers:  3 SR, 2 JR

Wisconsin:  1 SR, 3-4(ish) JR

 

Edited February 8, 2023 by 49r

[millerhusker]

10 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I get this line of thinking. And it seems to be what a lot in this board have coalesced around. I just don’t buy it. I don't discount any of his record. It's his record. I don't buy that Hoiberg came up with this new "plan" anymore than I buy Frost wanted to step away from play calling. Of course I'd feel different if this was year 2. But it's not. It's year 4. Probably another 20 loss season. And it just can't muster any more optimism about Hoiberg. He's been an absolute disaster. 

If you can't muster any optimism about Hoiberg and would prefer to see him fired, that's fair. But what year he is currently in does not matter. Tim Miles took us dancing in his 2nd year, but his 3rd, 4th and 5th years were much worse coached teams than his 1st. Those teams were so bad, they lost to Gardner Webb, Samford and Incarnate Word. We fully expected to get handled by a middle of the pack Michigan team at PBA on senior night in '17. We lost by about 40 (in year 5?!) Did you have any optimism after that game? Well, the next year was arguably Miles' best team.

 

This year's team, when everyone was healthy and active, was very competitive. We weren't outmanned or outcoached by anyone. Including the #1 team in the country.  If Trev does fire Hoiberg, no one will argue that decision. But this team does play sound, solid basketball. Offensively, there is constant movement and they share the ball in a way that we haven't seen from a Nebraska team in a very long time. Defensively, they are still top 50 in the country without the two best defenders (and now the two best defenders might be freshmen). If you don't think there's a difference in the "plan",  that's on you. The entire culture has changed into something that's sustainable. You either aren't watching it or you aren't seeing it. 

[cornfed24-7]

25 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

If you can't muster any optimism about Hoiberg and would prefer to see him fired, that's fair. But what year he is currently in does not matter. Tim Miles took us dancing in his 2nd year, but his 3rd, 4th and 5th years were much worse coached teams than his 1st. Those teams were so bad, they lost to Gardner Webb, Samford and Incarnate Word. We fully expected to get handled by a middle of the pack Michigan team at PBA on senior night in '17. We lost by about 40 (in year 5?!) Did you have any optimism after that game? Well, the next year was arguably Miles' best team.

 

This year's team, when everyone was healthy and active, was very competitive. We weren't outmanned or outcoached by anyone. Including the #1 team in the country.  If Trev does fire Hoiberg, no one will argue that decision. But this team does play sound, solid basketball. Offensively, there is constant movement and they share the ball in a way that we haven't seen from a Nebraska team in a very long time. Defensively, they are still top 50 in the country without the two best defenders (and now the two best defenders might be freshmen). If you don't think there's a difference in the "plan",  that's on you. The entire culture has changed into something that's sustainable. You either aren't watching it or you aren't seeing it. 

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. But that is some rose glasses hyperbole. You can't say the culture is sustainable. Hoiberg has done it for ONE season. I like the way this team plays. It's enjoyable. Still gonna lose 20. Hoiberg did better. I admire the job. Still 4 20 loss seasons. Stats everywhere greatly improved! 7 wins, 7 wins, 10 wins, 11wins (thanks 49er ).

[millerhusker]

8 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. But that is some rose glasses hyperbole. You can't say the culture is sustainable. Hoiberg has done it for ONE season. I like the way this team plays. It's enjoyable. Still gonna lose 20. Hoiberg did better. I admire the job. Still 4 20 loss seasons. Stats everywhere greatly improved! 7 wins, 7 wins, 10 wins, 11wins (thanks 49er ).

It is a culture that is sustainable. I suppose you could argue it'll only be sustainable as long as the two new assistant coaches are around. 

[49r]

1 hour ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I don't disagree with a lot of what you're saying. But that is some rose glasses hyperbole. You can't say the culture is sustainable. Hoiberg has done it for ONE season. I like the way this team plays. It's enjoyable. Still gonna lose 20. Hoiberg did better. I admire the job. Still 4 20 loss seasons. Stats everywhere greatly improved! 7 wins, 7 wins, 10 wins, 11wins (thanks 49er ).

 

LOL You're welcome but to be fair, I think the chance of us losing 20 games this year are pretty slim actually.  KenPom's got us going 14-17 in the regular season.  We only need to win two more regular season games to avoid 20 losses.

[cornfed24-7]

12 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

LOL You're welcome but to be fair, I think the chance of us losing 20 games this year are pretty slim actually.  KenPom's got us going 14-17 in the regular season.  We only need to win two more regular season games to avoid 20 losses.

Me too but the argument doesn't bite as hard with 19

[brfrad]

7 hours ago, cornfed24-7 said:

Yes. But until this year Hoiberg hasn't shown an ability to be able to handle that nature one bit. And this year he's just barely above scraping the bottom of the barrel in terms of success. 

His time at Iowa State begs to differ.

[cornfed24-7]

11 minutes ago, brfrad said:

His time at Iowa State begs to differ.

Zero relevance to here and a silly point. Frost was great in Florida .

[huskerbill85]

On 2/6/2023 at 10:34 AM, 49r said:

 

Can you expand on this "fake image" you claim the school and state is upholding?

 

 

 

 

So...why the double standard?  Beard is good enough for us (despite some mythic "fake image" we're upholding) after his arrest on DV charges but Mickey is definitely not good enough for us now that he's been arrested.

Look at the comments made when some fans wanted Urban Meyer while completely overlooking what went down under Osborne.

 

This isn't a double standard I thought I was clear in my comments. Mickeys actions happened while he was employed with the university what he did was a fireable offense. That doesn't mean he shouldn't get a second chance somewhere. 

[Nighthawk]

18 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

I'm confused. On the one hand you're talking about how we don't have hyped recruits. On the other hand you're talking about being burned by players not living up to the hype.

 

How about this: We did pretty well in the portal last season despite a poor record. We have more to show this year AND we have some promising young talent on the roster and getting minutes right now, more than we did last year, to build around.

This year is an exception.  I'm mostly talking about the prior three years.  The brothers didn't live up to the hype...neither did most of the starters that played with them. The players from the two years prior..same issues. Had they all lived up to their hype and played as a team instead of just being 5 guys on the court all waiting to be "the star". We would have have winning seasons.  

[HuscurAdam]

20 hours ago, cornfed24-7 said:

Hoiberg looks like a coach who's ceiling is getting Nebraska close to a . 500 record. We all know his floor. 

 

A coach who has won multiple P6 conference championships and made 4 NCAA tourneys, including a Sweet 16, has a ceiling of "close to a .500 record."  Really?

 

There is no arguing his first 3 years here weren't a fiasco, but before the injuries they were on track to finish .500 or better *this year*. It would take willful ignorance to not see the improvements in culture and on-court play this season. If you want him fired despite that improvement...hey, it's a bottom-line business and the W/L record is what it is so I get it.

 

I just think the context of the current trajectory warrants another year to see how things go (especially with an $11 mil buyout). The grass isn't always greener and Nebrasketball history tells me there is no guarantee the next guy won't be a disaster too. I'd rather roll the dice one more time on a guy what has done it before and is showing signs of getting it figured out again.       

[cornfed24-7]

10 minutes ago, HuscurAdam said:

 

A coach who has won multiple P6 conference championships and made 4 NCAA tourneys, including a Sweet 16, has a ceiling of "close to a .500 record."  Really?

 

There is no arguing his first 3 years here weren't a fiasco, but before the injuries they were on track to finish .500 or better *this year*. It would take willful ignorance to not see the improvements in culture and on-court play this season. If you want him fired despite that improvement...hey, it's a bottom-line business and the W/L record is what it is so I get it.

 

I just think the context of the current trajectory warrants another year to see how things go (especially with an $11 mil buyout). The grass isn't always greener and Nebrasketball history tells me there is no guarantee the next guy won't be a disaster too. I'd rather roll the dice one more time on a guy what has done it before and is showing signs of getting it figured out again.       

Yeah really. I saw improvement this year. Will not argue it. Stated it multiple times. Do not think it's enough to warrant another year. It seems to me a lot of people are prisoners to history here. Nothing Hoiberg has done here has given any indication he can repeat the heights he reached at ISU. Hell, even reach a winning season. Did he have a chance this year maybe. It sure wasn't a foregone conclusion. And it's a moot point because we all get to see this show one more year. And I hope Hoiberg strikes the lotto in the transfer portal. I buy lotto tickets. The dream is fun. Do I think I'm actually gonna win? Nope. 

 

[Chuck Taylor]

I’ve already said I’m in favor of keeping Fred, based on some improvement and the desire to avoid discord over the firing. However, let’s not overstate what he’s accomplished this year. On January 10, before Gary was injured, NU was 106th on Torvik, 13th in the Big Ten and predicted to finish 13-18.

[Nebrasketball1979]

1 hour ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I’ve already said I’m in favor of keeping Fred, based on some improvement and the desire to avoid discord over the firing. However, let’s not overstate what he’s accomplished this year. On January 10, before Gary was injured, NU was 106th on Torvik, 13th in the Big Ten and predicted to finish 13-18.

 

This is where stats can always be used to paint whatever narrative anyone wants.  Fred's record is a fact and not really debatable - it's been horrendous.  If we're getting into the weeds on projections for this individual year, I personally throw those out the window.  I think Robin tweeted out that when our core 5 played together we were something like 7-3 with some debate about whether it was really 6-4.  I don't really care which is right because I know what my eyes told me.  I believed for the first time in many, many years I was watching a competent and dare I say, good, basketball team.  The games against Creighton and Iowa were no flukes.  Nebraska was the better team.  I was in town and watched the heartbreaking loss to Purdue.  The fact that game was close was also not a fluke.  Now, it's super convenient for me or anyone else to give the Fred the benefit of the doubt this year when the sample size I'm referring to is so small.  Again, we have the past 4 years that do not paint a good picture.  And, it certainly is on Fred that our depth isn't where it should have been.  But, it does look to me that our future depth appears to be improving significantly based on what I'm seeing from the young kids. 

 

However, as I and many others have stated, what if Fred finally figured it out here?  The formula this season is very much repeatable and it looks like we have some pieces in place to keep it going.  The new staff, in their first year for most, hit some home runs in the transfer portal.  The transfer portal is a crap shoot but these guys appear to me to know what they are looking for.  I guess the bottom line for me is I believe the ceiling next year for Fred is higher than whatever new coach we were to hire.  Yes, I'm probably a prisoner of past Nebraska basketball history but honestly, this history is well earned.  This place has been tough to win at, obviously, and that doesn't mean it will always be that way.  Still, I have no confidence the next guy is the one to figure out the winning formula but I will hang my hat (maybe irrationally) on the handful of games this year where I legitimately thought we were a good team.  That at least gives me hope for next year in wanting to run this thing back one more time with Fred.

 

Remember when Fred was hired, Doc said that Rome wasn't built in a day.  It took over 1200 years to build Rome so in the grand scheme of things, one more year of Fred is very insignificant in the timeline of the undeniable empire we are very slowly and clearly building here  

[Norm Peterson]

2 hours ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I’ve already said I’m in favor of keeping Fred, based on some improvement and the desire to avoid discord over the firing. However, let’s not overstate what he’s accomplished this year. On January 10, before Gary was injured, NU was 106th on Torvik, 13th in the Big Ten and predicted to finish 13-18.

 

Hindsight is 20/20, as everyone knows. If we keep him and he has another moribund season, we can fire him after next year and everyone can say, "yep, we knew it." If we keep him and he knocks it out of the park, we can all say "hey, I saw it coming based on how much better the product on the floor looked last year." It's not like any of us are going anywhere, so I'm not sure how it hurts to run it back another year. I'm staying put.

 

Y'know, to create what is probably a bad analogy, it's like playing poker and everyone calls. Why fold at that point? You're not risking anything by seeing what happens after that. I don't know that we're risking anything by keeping Fred another season. I do think we'd be risking something by switching coaches again. And what we're risking is that we would basically be going back to absolute square one on a 3-4 or 5 year rebuild.

 

Having said all that, I also want to add that your computer stuff doesn't resonate with me for two reasons:

 

1. Some of you guys like your stats; I like relying on what my eyes tell me, and my eyes tell me this is a better scheme than we've had over the course of the last several coaches, and we just need some luck in getting a bit of a talent upgrade through the portal; and

 

2. I said back in December that the computers had not yet caught up with how much better we were this year. They still assumed we were the bad team we were the last few years. Go back and look if you want to. I still believe that. I still believe we were ahead of the computers. That's why our ranking continued to climb until Gary got hurt.

 

Anyway, as I've said before, I'm firmly in the camp of giving this one more go before we scrap everything and start over. There's just enough there to make me think it could work and has a better chance than picking whatever coach is behind Door #3.

[Huskerpapa]

One major vibe we have right now is the perception of dead man walking.  Is the current situation negatively effecting recruiting? 

I simply do not like the iffy commitment to a coach.  He is either all in or out.  Make a decision and live with it.  Again. 

[Norm Peterson]

2 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

One major vibe we have right now is the perception of dead man walking.  Is the current situation negatively effecting recruiting? 

I simply do not like the iffy commitment to a coach.  He is either all in or out.  Make a decision and live with it.  Again. 

 

I would say he looks like he's on a lot more stable ground now than he did a year ago.

 

A year ago, they didn't even plan for a summer basketball camp. This year, they've already put out the info. I'm no poker expert, but in poker parlance, I think that's what they call a "tell."

[busticket]

If you told me before the season that we would win 13 games (A little assuming here) against one of the ten toughest schedules in the country while missing your star player for the first 6 games AND suffering two massive injuries but the team was disciplined, played hard and it made sense to the fans what they were trying to accomplish schematically, I would have accepted it.  Trev wanted improvement in effort, toughness and discipline to keep his job.  I think we are seeing it, as well as the on-court results of those things.

[49r]

1 hour ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

I guess the bottom line for me is I believe the ceiling next year for Fred is higher than whatever new coach we were to hire.  Yes, I'm probably a prisoner of past Nebraska basketball history but honestly, this history is well earned.

 

It's interesting to see that people are feeling optimistic 2/3 through this season that they've seen enough improvement year over year to think that perhaps with a little good fortune, next year we can achieve what would have been considered an "average" year under Miles.  

Edited February 8, 2023 by 49r

[49r]

10 minutes ago, busticket said:

If you told me before the season that we would win 13 games (A little assuming here) against one of the ten toughest schedules in the country while missing your star player for the first 6 games AND suffering two massive injuries but the team was disciplined, played hard and it made sense to the fans what they were trying to accomplish schematically, I would have accepted it.  Trev wanted improvement in effort, toughness and discipline to keep his job.  I think we are seeing it, as well as the on-court results of those things.

 

A point of clarification here, it's not a top 10 SOS.  We currently have the #4 SOS according to KenPom, so make that top 5.