What to do with Miles contract?

[hskr4life]

Jean would not approve his antics.  Too excited.  

[bigred4]

25 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

Comparison not apples to apples.  One of those teams deserved their seed.  The other did not.

Not sure how it isn't apples to apples, both teams had a very similar KenPom ranking.  My point is that I don't understand everyone saying, we basically just need to give Miles 5 years and let him coach no matter what.  I agree if you are going to keep you have to give him an extension, but I would go 2 more years so he is at four.  

 

If they don't make the NCAA next year, I don't see how you could retain him with all the talent that is on the roster and not making the NCAA.  Most on here last year were saying that you had to let him coach that Glynn Watson, Ed Morrow, Michael Jacobsen, and Jack McVeigh recruiting class through their senior year and then make a decision, so that is why next year is pretty big, I would think, but who knows what Moos is thinking.

[colhusker]

36 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Oh, joy.  Has this person who's never posted here before ever claimed personal knowledge of the home décor in the basement of the house of a certain family in South Sioux City?

I was figuring he was a great girls basketball coach.

[lanigan123]

You either think he is the right coach for your team or you don’t 6 years in. 

 

You don’t give a guy 6 years to develop a 5 year plan. Personally, I like Miles, but I think he has taken our Huskers as far as he can. I’d make a change.  However, if I can’t find a guy I view as better to take the job I’d probably give Miles the ol 2 year extension with a massive pay cut.  He should be paid like a coach that makes an NCAA tournament every 6 years.... 

[ajb5856]

36 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

Jean would not approve his antics.  Too excited.  

Jean actually gets off to grown men dropping F bombs on live tv 

 

 

[HB]

30 minutes ago, lanigan123 said:

You either think he is the right coach for your team or you don’t 6 years in. 

 

You don’t give a guy 6 years to develop a 5 year plan. Personally, I like Miles, but I think he has taken our Huskers as far as he can. I’d make a change.  However, if I can’t find a guy I view as better to take the job I’d probably give Miles the ol 2 year extension with a massive pay cut.  He should be paid like a coach that makes an NCAA tournament every 6 years.... 

 

"Personally I like Miles".

 

Really?   Cause based on your posting history, you got a really funny way of showing it.   I mean, it's OK not to like him.   Just go with it.  No need to do the old "I really like  him, BUT...."  thing.    

Edited March 20, 2018 by HB

[HB]

51 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

Jean would not approve his antics.  Too excited.  

 

 I didn't even notice the over-exuberant kid on the first watch, because, well, I was looking at something else.......

[Chuck Taylor]

4 minutes ago, HB said:

 

"Personally I like Miles".

 

Really?   Cause based on your posting history, you got a really funny way of showing it.   I mean, it's OK not to like him.   Just go with it.  No need to do the old "I really like  him, BUT...."  thing.    

Used to hear "I like Doc, but ..." a lot too. People are just trying to be polite, since they want the guy to go. I think it's polite enough if you just don't say, "I hate Miles, and ..."

[lanigan123]

37 minutes ago, HB said:

 

"Personally I like Miles".

 

Really?   Cause based on your posting history, you got a really funny way of showing it.   I mean, it's OK not to like him.   Just go with it.  No need to do the old "I really like  him, BUT...."  thing.    

 I do like him, he’s charismatic, funny, hard worker, but he has failed to achieve what he was brought here to do, win.  

 

Are we paying someone 2 million a year to be a .500 coach?  Sub .500 in conference who struggles to keep both transfers and high school players. 

 

Being funny and charasmatic does mean squat if you can draw up a good play after a timeout. So yes, I personally like him.  You can like someone and not think they are good at the current job they are in. 

[HuskerFever]

2 hours ago, bigred4 said:

If they don't make the NCAA next year, I don't see how you could retain him with all the talent that is on the roster and not making the NCAA.

 

Isn't this what a lot of people were saying last year?

[khoock]

Listening to Robin Washut on 'Game Time' has me a little worried. According to Robin, it was Miles who reached out to Moos and wanted to pitch his 5 year plan. Could be interpreted as a last effort to save his job.

 

Meeting is taking place today. Robin thinks we'll know Timmy's fate in a couple days --> contract extension (no brainer to me) or moving on.

Edited March 20, 2018 by khoock

[HB]

1 hour ago, lanigan123 said:

 I do like him, he’s charismatic, funny, hard worker, but he has failed to achieve what he was brought here to do, win.  

 

Are we paying someone 2 million a year to be a .500 coach?  Sub .500 in conference who struggles to keep both transfers and high school players. 

 

Being funny and charasmatic does mean squat if you can draw up a good play after a timeout. So yes, I personally like him.  You can like someone and not think they are good at the current job they are in. 

 

Except that's not consistent with your history.   When you were leading the AWIII will leave bandwagon, you intimated that Miles was an A-hole who had serious issues with his players.   And then you disappeared for  a long time. 

Edited March 20, 2018 by HB

[Cazzie22]

Coaching Basketball at Nebraska is a challenge, our history proves it to be so.  The state produces little Division I talent and when it does the big boys swoop in and grab them or Creighton identifies them first.  We have had brief forays of being competitive but have been unable to sustain excellence save for a few years with Nee and Cipriano had some good teams.  Player development is the key to success at NU and we need Palmer, Crowell, Roby to all come back and be committed to team excellence and not to showcase their “skills” for the NBA.  It is never going to be easy in the B1G where several schools value BB as highly as we value FB.

[hskr4life]

2 minutes ago, Cazzie22 said:

Coaching Basketball at Nebraska is a challenge, our history proves it to be so.  The state produces little Division I talent and when it does the big boys swoop in and grab them or Creighton identifies them first.  We have had brief forays of being competitive but have been unable to sustain excellence save for a few years with Nee and Cipriano had some good teams.  Player development is the key to success at NU and we need Palmer, Crowell, Roby to all come back and be committed to team excellence and not to showcase their “skills” for the NBA.  It is never going to be easy in the B1G where several schools value BB as highly as we value FB.

 

Please tell me that is a 6'11" grad transfer who averaged 10 and 10 this past year and wants to come to Nebraska..... 

[HB]

6 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

Please tell me that is a 6'11" grad transfer who averaged 10 and 10 this past year and wants to come to Nebraska..... 

 

Crowell?   Forget it, he's on a roll.  

[Busch Light]

I’ve thought long and hard about this. If I were Moos, I’d have started to covertly engage potential candidates after the Big 10 tournament loss. I would listen long and hard to Miles plan though. If it’s a sound plan, I’d extend him 2 years. If it’s not, I’d let him go. 

[Cowboy Kermit]

35 minutes ago, khoock said:

Listening to Robin Washut on 'Game Time' has me a little worried. According to Robin, it was Miles who reached out to Moos and wanted to pitch his 5 year plan. Could be interpreted as a last effort to save his job.

 

Meeting is taking place today. Robin thinks we'll no Timmy's fate in a couple days --> contract extension (no brainer to me) or moving on.

Listened to the same interview, and did not like how Robin sounded. But either way what he was saying makes sense. Strong cases can be made both ways,  and no matter what happens you'll have people supporting the decision and those opposing it. 

[khoock]

Sucks for Miles that when he finally gets a complete, talented roster the rest of the Big Ten decides to stink it up and he only draws a home game against one of the Top 4 teams in conference (excluding us obv).

 

Any other year, this team probably wins 18-20 games and is a 11 to 8 seed in the tournament. Making this thread unnecessary.

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, NebrasketballJake said:

Listened to the same interview, and did not like how Robin sounded. But either way what he was saying makes sense. Strong cases can be made both ways,  and no matter what happens you'll have people supporting the decision and those opposing it. 

 

Kind of reminds me of my philosophy on players leaving: If it happens I'll ltell you how I feel after I know who their replacement is.

[Donkey]

15 hours ago, The Polish Rifle said:

I mean the philosophy of these kids is go pro early or transfer to a team that will give you a chance to go pro. Seems like 60% of the recruits aren’t on the same team in 2 years anyways. We see it here in transfers in and out. 

 

I checked out the numbers.  Per Verbal Commits, transfers have skyrocketed the last six seasons from 577 in 2012 to 883 in 2017.  Factor in that 134 college kids declared early for the draft in 2017, the average number of kids leaving early is 3 per year (out of 351 division 1 schools).
 

Approximately 2/3s of the kids transferring were less than 3 stars coming out of high school and left to play at smaller schools.  Many of the kids transferring were similar to Sergej Vucetic, Nick Fuller, or Bakari Evelyn was to Nebraska (e.g. kids who likely were not going to play much the next season).  I completely understand these kids leaving. 

 

Let's look at Miles' retention while at Nebraska. I am not including graduate transfers as they only had one year of eligibility when they arrived on campus.

 

2012: (4) 50% exhausted their eligibility as both Vucetic and Biggs left early.  Parker was encouraged to leave but opted to stay.  Both Parker and Shields were Doc's recruits, but I am counting them toward Miles because he had to convince them to stay (although Shields did not take any convincing).  If you include Petteway and Pitchford in this list, Miles numbers go down to 33% retention as both left early as well.

 

2013: (4) 50% exhausted their eligibility as Hawkins and Fuller both left early.  Fuller transferring was understandable as he was at the end of the bench.  Leslee Smith exhausted his eligibility but was a JUCO transfer.  Tai Webster was the only 4 year player in this class. 

 

2014: (2) 0% retention.  Both Smith and Hammond left before playing as juniors.  White transferred in and failed to exhaust his eligibility at Nebraska as well.

 

2015: (4) 25% retention.  Evelyn, Morrow, and Jacobson all left before playing as juniors.  Watson is the only player remaining from this class, and it is assumed he is staying.

 

2016: (4) 75% retention with Horne leaving after 1 season (included Taylor as a JUCO transfer).  Jordy considered transferring, and it is not clear whether he will be with Nebraska next year.  If you include Palmer and Copeland in this class, whose status is up in the air, the retention rate could go up. 

 

2017: (3) 100% for the moment. 

 

Without including 2017, of the 18 kids (both high school and JUCO) that Miles has brought in 8 are still with the team or exhausted their eligibility.  One of those 8, Jordy, has considered transferring.  Of the 5 transfers Miles has brought in, 3 have left before exhausting their eligibility and the remaining 2 are on the fence right now whether to stay.  Assuming Jordy, Roby, Copeland, Watson, and Palmer stay for next year, Miles has a 43% retention rate over a 5 year period.  Assuming Watson plays for Nebraska next season, he will be only the 4th player in 5 years to play 4 seasons at Nebraska.  Worse yet, Miles has not used at least 1 scholarship each year (which is worse than losing a kid to transfer). 

 

Those turnover numbers are too high.  It is hard to build a program when only 1 player stays in a 2 year period.  If any of the 2016 or 2017 kids leave, those numbers are only getting worse.  Both Doc and Miles seem to have the same problem losing high school kids.  Both also relied on transfers (JUCO for Doc) to keep things propped up but only had the kids for a limited time.  AND both Doc and Miles had zero NBA picks.   

[hskr4life]

3 minutes ago, Donkey said:

 

I checked out the numbers.  Per Verbal Commits, transfers have skyrocketed the last six seasons from 577 in 2012 to 883 in 2017.  Factor in that 134 college kids declared early for the draft in 2017, the average number of kids leaving early is 3 per year (out of 351 division 1 schools).
 

Approximately 2/3s of the kids transferring were less than 3 stars coming out of high school and left to play at smaller schools.  Many of the kids transferring were similar to Sergej Vucetic, Nick Fuller, or Bakari Evelyn was to Nebraska (e.g. kids who likely were not going to play much the next season).  I completely understand these kids leaving. 

 

Let's look at Miles' retention while at Nebraska. I am not including graduate transfers as they only had one year of eligibility when they arrived on campus.

 

2012: (4) 50% exhausted their eligibility as both Vucetic and Biggs left early.  Parker was encouraged to leave but opted to stay.  Both Parker and Shields were Doc's recruits, but I am counting them toward Miles because he had to convince them to stay (although Shields did not take any convincing).  If you include Petteway and Pitchford in this list, Miles numbers go down to 33% retention as both left early as well.

 

2013: (4) 50% exhausted their eligibility as Hawkins and Fuller both left early.  Fuller transferring was understandable as he was at the end of the bench.  Leslee Smith exhausted his eligibility but was a JUCO transfer.  Tai Webster was the only 4 year player in this class. 

 

2014: (2) 0% retention.  Both Smith and Hammond left before playing as juniors.  White transferred in and failed to exhaust his eligibility at Nebraska as well.

 

2015: (4) 25% retention.  Evelyn, Morrow, and Jacobson all left before playing as juniors.  Watson is the only player remaining from this class, and it is assumed he is staying.

 

2016: (4) 75% retention with Horne leaving after 1 season (included Taylor as a JUCO transfer).  Jordy considered transferring, and it is not clear whether he will be with Nebraska next year.  If you include Palmer and Copeland in this class, whose status is up in the air, the retention rate could go up. 

 

2017: (3) 100% for the moment. 

 

Without including 2017, of the 18 kids (both high school and JUCO) that Miles has brought in 8 are still with the team or exhausted their eligibility.  One of those 8, Jordy, has considered transferring.  Of the 5 transfers Miles has brought in, 3 have left before exhausting their eligibility and the remaining 2 are on the fence right now whether to stay.  Assuming Jordy, Roby, Copeland, Watson, and Palmer stay for next year, Miles has a 43% retention rate over a 5 year period.  Assuming Watson plays for Nebraska next season, he will be only the 4th player in 5 years to play 4 seasons at Nebraska.  Worse yet, Miles has not used at least 1 scholarship each year (which is worse than losing a kid to transfer). 

 

Those turnover numbers are too high.  It is hard to build a program when only 1 player stays in a 2 year period.  If any of the 2016 or 2017 kids leave, those numbers are only getting worse.  Both Doc and Miles seem to have the same problem losing high school kids.  Both also relied on transfers (JUCO for Doc) to keep things propped up but only had the kids for a limited time.  AND both Doc and Miles had zero NBA picks.   

 

So let's look at the whole picture.

 

Of the three transfers that left, one went pro (good), one quit basketball all together (not bad for NU), and only one was probably bad for NU and that was White.

 

Most all high school players left because Miles recruited BETTER players.  Hello... isn't that what we want?  

 

Look it's ok to lose talent, if you are upgrading with better talent.  Miles HAS done this.  It isn't like we are replacing 5* recruits with 3* recruits.  It is actually pretty opposite.  The transfer route isn't a bad route to recruit either.  The days of having the 4 year player that stars for you are almost over.  That's just the way things are today.  And if they pass the transfer and no sit rule, it is only going to get worse.  Miles seems to be a step ahead of the game for this.  I for one am happy about that.  We cannot keep bagging on Miles for losing talent and fail to see that he has upgraded the talent each and every time we lost talent.  Hell, our biggest losses were probably Ed and MJ, and we managed to upgrade with Copeland, Palmer (both already in the fold), TAllen, and Dube.  I don't know about you, but that is one hell of a trade in a good way for Nebraska.

[Swan88]

NU isn’t the only team with transfer numbers that seem high.  Here’s an example of roster turnover in a “successful” program, in a news article from 2016:

“Oregon has made the postseason in each of his five seasons, with its current three-year run of NCAA tournament bids the longest in school history. With a lead in the Pac-12 standings and a top-10 RPI, expect the Ducks to extend that streak.

And the Ducks have done this with drastically different personnel, with an average of eight players coming and going from every season’s roster, not including incoming freshmen.”

[Cowboy Kermit]

45 minutes ago, khoock said:

Sucks for Miles that when he finally gets a complete, talented roster the rest of the Big Ten decides to stink it up and he only draws a home game against one of the Top 4 teams in conference (excluding us obv).

 

Any other year, this team probably wins 18-20 games and is a 11 to 8 seed in the tournament. Making this thread unnecessary.

I know the point has to have been brought up on this board before, but just think about the difference between now and the start of the year in terms of perceiving the schedule. Preseason we were pretty content with our draw, and the back half of our conference schedule seemed ideal. Little did we know the impact it'd have on the outcome of our season. 

[khoock]

Of all the transfers listed above, Andrew White and Ed Morrow were probably the only two who would have continued to play had they not transferred. Everyone else would have stayed on the bench or seen their roles diminished to the bench.

[huskerbaseball13]

15 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

NU isn’t the only team with transfer numbers that seem high.  Here’s an example of roster turnover in a “successful” program, in a news article from 2016:

“Oregon has made the postseason in each of his five seasons, with its current three-year run of NCAA tournament bids the longest in school history. With a lead in the Pac-12 standings and a top-10 RPI, expect the Ducks to extend that streak.

And the Ducks have done this with drastically different personnel, with an average of eight players coming and going from every season’s roster, not including incoming freshmen.”

I think we can all agree we will continue to have turnover regardless of who our coach is. The problem being, our current coach hasn’t proven very successful during his time with that turnover. If we had the track record of Oregon during that time I don’t think there would be as big of an outrage when we lose talented guys. JMO