Is this the same team ...

[Norm Peterson]

Is this ...

 

 

 

the same Nebraska team as this ...

 

 

?

 

If not, what's different?

Edited March 5, 2017 by Norm Peterson

[AuroranHusker]

One is wearing white sleeved uni's and the other, sweet retro jerseys. But, that's obvious.

 

 

I think the team got tight & tense after Anton Gill went down, kinda scared even. I have no proof of that, but I sensed it quite a few times in their play. Hard to make tangible. My humble opinion on what ails.

[northwillriseagain]

They stopped playing loose, this sounds like a knock on coaching, but they played less to their youthful upside, and more reserved now.

 

i think with the decent athletes we have, they need to play more free.

 

there isn't as much in the transition baskets like the earlier part of the season. 

[Chuck Taylor]

So the question is why did we look like a good team in December and not now? Some possibilities: 1. We're worn down mentally from losing. 2. We didn't improve as much or as quickly as the teams we're playing. 3. Similarly, teams we played early were still finding themselves. We never figured out who we are. 4. We don't have a floor general. 5. All of the above. 

 

I've bitched about the "fire Miles" threads and think that (barring something behind the scenes that we don't know) it would be a really bad move to fire him. However, I have thought about the program's shortcomings and one thing that comes up is focus.

 

I love the kids we've recruited, but it doesn't seem like we have a coherent strategy for building a team. One thing is that Ed, Jack, Isaiah, Horne and Jacobson all seem best suited as 4s. Yeah, you can slide them over into other spots, but is that where they're most effective. We don't have a true point guard. (Glynn is a great scorer, but he shows no signs of being a floor general.) The best true point guard we've had has been Benny, and he was a Doc leftover. In Miles' fifth year, we finally have a center. We don't have shooters, although I think Horne or Jack can be if they settle into a role. And I just can't believe we haven't signed a local kid in five years while giving out scholarships to (fill in the names). I'm not playing the "we should have signed Daum" card, I'm saying there are about a number of local kids who have moved on to prove they can play D-1 basketball and it's like we don't even know who they are. I think the staff can evaluate talent, but I don't think they see the importance of helping to fill out a roster with kids right under their nose. Kids who are committed to the program and will stay. That creates roster stability.

 

Regarding style of play, strategy, etc. I think it's the same thing. The board has had a lot of discussions about who we are and what we're trying to do. Should that be happening in year 5? 

 

I don't go to practice, so this might not be valid, but from a fan's perspective, there seem to be too many stretches where somebody doesn't play for a few games, then gets minutes and produces. This is one of those things that seems positive when you're winning, seems erratic when you're losing. 

 

There have been a lot of comparisons to Minnesota making a jump this year and so we can next year. Maybe. But their core was freshman last year, this year they're sophomores, just like ours. Plus they added the NBA-caliber Amir Coffey this year, and we're not adding anybody that level next year. So maybe the better comparison is this year's Minnesota team to this year's NU team. Depends on your perspective, I tend to think these kind of comparisons aren't worth much.

 

In conclusion: give him another year and see where we are. If he gets fired, I'm going to write "lacked focus" on his tombstone.

 

[basketballjones]

34 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Plus they added the NBA-caliber Amir Coffey this year, and we're not adding anybody that level next year.

 

5-star Copeland from gtown tho...

[MichHusker]

51 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

So the question is why did we look like a good team in December and not now? Some possibilities: 1. We're worn down mentally from losing. 2. We didn't improve as much or as quickly as the teams we're playing. 3. Similarly, teams we played early were still finding themselves. We never figured out who we are. 4. We don't have a floor general. 5. All of the above. 

 

I've bitched about the "fire Miles" threads and think that (barring something behind the scenes that we don't know) it would be a really bad move to fire him. However, I have thought about the program's shortcomings and one thing that comes up is focus.

 

I love the kids we've recruited, but it doesn't seem like we have a coherent strategy for building a team. One thing is that Ed, Jack, Isaiah, Horne and Jacobson all seem best suited as 4s. Yeah, you can slide them over into other spots, but is that where they're most effective. We don't have a true point guard. (Glynn is a great scorer, but he shows no signs of being a floor general.) The best true point guard we've had has been Benny, and he was a Doc leftover. In Miles' fifth year, we finally have a center. We don't have shooters, although I think Horne or Jack can be if they settle into a role. And I just can't believe we haven't signed a local kid in five years while giving out scholarships to (fill in the names). I'm not playing the "we should have signed Daum" card, I'm saying there are about a number of local kids who have moved on to prove they can play D-1 basketball and it's like we don't even know who they are. I think the staff can evaluate talent, but I don't think they see the importance of helping to fill out a roster with kids right under their nose. Kids who are committed to the program and will stay. That creates roster stability.

 

Regarding style of play, strategy, etc. I think it's the same thing. The board has had a lot of discussions about who we are and what we're trying to do. Should that be happening in year 5? 

 

I don't go to practice, so this might not be valid, but from a fan's perspective, there seem to be too many stretches where somebody doesn't play for a few games, then gets minutes and produces. This is one of those things that seems positive when you're winning, seems erratic when you're losing. 

 

There have been a lot of comparisons to Minnesota making a jump this year and so we can next year. Maybe. But their core was freshman last year, this year they're sophomores, just like ours. Plus they added the NBA-caliber Amir Coffey this year, and we're not adding anybody that level next year. So maybe the better comparison is this year's Minnesota team to this year's NU team. Depends on your perspective, I tend to think these kind of comparisons aren't worth much.

 

In conclusion: give him another year and see where we are. If he gets fired, I'm going to write "lacked focus" on his tombstone.

 

We are super easy to scout too. We don't have multiple guys who play that can knock down 3s at a solid clip, and our post players aren't good enough yet where we can just throw the ball down low every other possession. So, that leaves trying to get our guards to the rim and we do that by setting a bunch of ball screens. Since we can't space the floor with good perimeter shooting, teams just pack the paint and make it tough on us to score. As long as other coaches handle our other actions well (everything that's not a ball screen), with this roster we will continue to have a tough time trying to score 

[Chuck Taylor]

16 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

5-star Copeland from gtown tho...

Absolutely agree, although his best position is also the 4. I just don't see how that logjam ends in a good way. Somebody transfers? Some of them play somewhere other than their best position? 

[tuxino]

1 hour ago, Chuck Taylor said:

So the question is why did we look like a good team in December and not now? Some possibilities: 1. We're worn down mentally from losing. 2. We didn't improve as much or as quickly as the teams we're playing. 3. Similarly, teams we played early were still finding themselves. We never figured out who we are. 4. We don't have a floor general. 5. All of the above. 

 

I've bitched about the "fire Miles" threads and think that (barring something behind the scenes that we don't know) it would be a really bad move to fire him. However, I have thought about the program's shortcomings and one thing that comes up is focus.

 

I love the kids we've recruited, but it doesn't seem like we have a coherent strategy for building a team. One thing is that Ed, Jack, Isaiah, Horne and Jacobson all seem best suited as 4s. Yeah, you can slide them over into other spots, but is that where they're most effective. We don't have a true point guard. (Glynn is a great scorer, but he shows no signs of being a floor general.) The best true point guard we've had has been Benny, and he was a Doc leftover. In Miles' fifth year, we finally have a center. We don't have shooters, although I think Horne or Jack can be if they settle into a role. And I just can't believe we haven't signed a local kid in five years while giving out scholarships to (fill in the names). I'm not playing the "we should have signed Daum" card, I'm saying there are about a number of local kids who have moved on to prove they can play D-1 basketball and it's like we don't even know who they are. I think the staff can evaluate talent, but I don't think they see the importance of helping to fill out a roster with kids right under their nose. Kids who are committed to the program and will stay. That creates roster stability.

 

Regarding style of play, strategy, etc. I think it's the same thing. The board has had a lot of discussions about who we are and what we're trying to do. Should that be happening in year 5? 

 

I don't go to practice, so this might not be valid, but from a fan's perspective, there seem to be too many stretches where somebody doesn't play for a few games, then gets minutes and produces. This is one of those things that seems positive when you're winning, seems erratic when you're losing. 

 

There have been a lot of comparisons to Minnesota making a jump this year and so we can next year. Maybe. But their core was freshman last year, this year they're sophomores, just like ours. Plus they added the NBA-caliber Amir Coffey this year, and we're not adding anybody that level next year. So maybe the better comparison is this year's Minnesota team to this year's NU team. Depends on your perspective, I tend to think these kind of comparisons aren't worth much.

 

In conclusion: give him another year and see where we are. If he gets fired, I'm going to write "lacked focus" on his tombstone.

This is it stated much better than I did. I really don't see Tim Miles learning how to use what he has any time soon. A local High School coach told me one time not long before Tim was hired that there is local talent. It kind of fueled my excitement when it was reported that Tim recruited Nebraska players while at CSU. Maybe we need to look for a replacement much lower than major level. At least we would have some thing to hang our hats on if they were ever able to achieve an above 500 level season(Minnesota,Northwestern,etc). I guess I need someone to explain to me why we are stuck with sub 500 coaching for six years. After all we don't really have a tradition of big time winning here. Why not reset, reload? tux

1 hour ago, Chuck Taylor said:

 

 

[unl]

Spacing looks so much better against Dayton.

[Norm Peterson]

Momentum is a powerful force.  When it's positive momentum, we sometimes call it mojo.  When it's negative momentum, we sometimes call it a funk.

 

When we played Dayton, we were loose.  We weren't over-thinking things.  We hadn't been stung by a lot of defeats yet.  Actually, undefeated at that point.  And our guys went out there and played like a confident team.

 

We hit a tough stretch early in the season where there was only one gimme in a stretch of six or seven games where we were the underdog basically every game.  We got over the hump against Dayton, but then dropped consecutive games against UCLA, VTech, and Clemson before getting a breather against USD.  But then it was back into the frying pan against Creighton and KU.

 

This is NOT the non-con schedule any coach would have ever put together for a young, developing team like we ended up having.  Losing Benedict Arnold III was more harmful to us than simply losing a good player.  We lost a player we were depending on having for the schedule we'd built for ourselves.  I wondered at the time how much bounce-back they had in them.

 

Gardner-Webb was a loss I wrote off to just the mental grind of facing so many tough teams in a row and losing most of those games.  When I saw the same team that lost to Gardner-Webb go into Assembly Hall and come out with a W, I was still feeling pretty optimistic for the season.

 

But then we have a couple of injuries to key players and drop a couple games to Rutgers and Ohio State that I'm sure the players think they should have won.  And, again, I wondered whether this team could bounce back.  And they did bounce back, by knocking off Purdue.  But there was no opportunity to build up further confidence because we followed the Purdue game with a road trip to Iowa City sandwiched between Michigan State and Wisconsin.  And we almost got Wisconsin.  And then we did get Penn State and redemption against Ohio State.

 

I think our bounce-back ability has diminished as the losses have piled up.  And I think it probably would have been a little bit different if either we had Benedict Arnold III for the entire season OR we'd played a slightly more pedestrian non-conference schedule and learned how to win a little bit.

 

I don't think it's an issue of lack of progress or development.  I think it's totally a matter of being hesitant and overthinking things, and not being confident and aggressive.  And I think it's a carry over from losing a bunch of games early and emptying the supply of bounce-back that we had in the tank.  Couple that with the injuries to key personnel and you're just not looking at a team that played as loose and confident late in the year as they were playing at the beginning of the year.

 

Sad to think what might have been.

Edited March 5, 2017 by Norm Peterson

[Huskerpapa]

1.  Ed was starting...I hope that he is back in the starting line up tonight, but I doubt it.

2.  Our offensive spacing is not as good.  Part of that is lack of consistent outside shooting.

3.  We are not as fresh

4.  We didn't have a black cloud hanging over the program

5.  Confidence is MIA. 

[boomer1]

20 minutes ago, huskercwg said:

1.  Ed was starting...I hope that he is back in the starting line up tonight, but I doubt it.

2.  Our offensive spacing is not as good.  Part of that is lack of consistent outside shooting.

3.  We are not as fresh

4.  We didn't have a black cloud hanging over the program

5.  Confidence is MIA. 

According to the press conference yesterday, Ed will be starting today, which I am happy about. 

[royalfan]

Teams didn't have much of us on film then.  They do now and we are super non complex to defend.  Close off the lane and then close off the lane.  Contest the deep shots as best you can, but close off the lane.  Teams know that now.  We need more ways to score in a consistent fashion.  White sure would have helped on this front. 

[Handy Johnson]

It doesn't look like they're having fun anymore, and that's why we all started playing Basketball in the first place, right?

[hal9000]

The mental aspect of basketball is huge.  We've all seen it before where good teams, with good players have just played terrible, and you're thinking how?  Why is Wisconsin playing so poorly right now?  Every team can have an off night, or even a few games where they are slumping.  The good teams usually come back, but not always.  Why?  It's that mysterious aspect of team sports where one week you're loose and confident, and then when you inexplicably have an off night it can, like a virus, spread from one game to the next.  Maybe then, and I'm no psychologist mind you, players try to over correct the problem by focusing so much on themselves, their training, their drills, fundamentals, etc., that they forget how to play together.  They think, "I've got to correct this slump we're in by making sure I play near perfect basketball."  Consequently (and unconsciously), they play hesitant, timid, not wanting to make mistakes, and forgetting how they played before, loose and together.  Mix in some heartbreaking losses also to make them press all the more. 

 

And the coaches.  They see their players making mistakes they used to not make, lacking confidence, and they think "We've got to coach them up better.  More training, better drills, scrimmages, coach/player meetings, film sessions.  Maybe the rope gets a little shorter during games.  Do they over compensate as well, instead of letting them play through it?  

 

And now with these last few games, I think there's a sense of being resigned to the fact that we're not going to play in any post season tourney.  The basketball season is a drain on everyone, but if you're Minnesota your energy is buoyed by knowledge that you've earned your way in to the NCAA Tourney, and in fact they are fighting to get as high a seed as possible.  If you're Nebraska, well....

 

Again, not a psychologist, just a one possible explanation.  I think the thing that gives me the most hope is that until these last four games, we've played pretty good (Garner-Webb not withstanding), and made every game we played in a dog fight.  Hit the reset button after this year, and I think we regain our confidence, and hopefully if we've logged some more wins by next February, we'll have the strength and energy to close out our conference schedule with enough wins to make the dance.  

 

 

[Norm Peterson]

Someone, if you have time, please look at our average margin of victory/defeat against the rpi top 100 prior to the last 4 games.

 

And then compare that to the average margin of victory/defeat against rpi top 100 teams in the last 4 games.

 

I will tell you without you having to look that before the last 4 games, we were 7-12 against ESPN's rpi top 100.  Last 4, we were 0-4.

 

Is there anything that happened just prior to the last 4 games that might have had an effect on player morale or anything like that?

[HuskerFever]

30 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Someone, if you have time, please look at our average margin of victory/defeat against the rpi top 100 prior to the last 4 games.

 

And then compare that to the average margin of victory/defeat against rpi top 100 teams in the last 4 games.

 

I will tell you without you having to look that before the last 4 games, we were 7-12 against ESPN's rpi top 100.  Last 4, we were 0-4.

 

Is there anything that happened just prior to the last 4 games that might have had an effect on player morale or anything like that?

 

@49r care to fill in the RPIs?

 

Here's the thread I posted the margins in:

Win vs Sacramento State, 83-61 (+22pts)
Win vs University of Mary, 70-38 (+32pts)
Win vs Louisiana Tech, 65-54 (+11pts)
Win ne Dayton, 80-78 (+2pts)
Loss ne UCLA, 71-82 (-11pts)
Loss ne Virginia Tech, 53-66 (-13pts)
Loss at Clemson, 58-60 (-2pts)
Win vs South Dakota, 73-61 (+12pts)
Loss vs Creighton, 62-77 (-15pts)
Loss vs Kansas, 72-89 (-17pts)
Loss vs Gardner-Webb, 62-70 (-8pts)
Win vs Southern, 81-76 (+5pts)
Win at Indiana, 87-83 (+4pts)
Win at Maryland, 67-65 (+2pts)
Win vs Iowa, 93-90 2OT (+3pts)
Loss vs Northwestern, 66-74 (-8pts)
Loss at Michigan, 85-91 (-6pts)
Loss vs Ohio State, 66-67 (-1pts)
Loss at Rutgers, 64-65 (-1pts)
Loss at Northwestern, 61-73 (-12pts)
Win  vs Purdue 83-80, (+3pts)
Loss vs Michigan State, 61-72 (-11pts)
Loss at Iowa, 70-81 (-11pts)

Loss vs Wisconsin, 69-70 OT (-1pts)

Win vs Penn State, 82-66 (+16pts)

Win at Ohio State, 58-57 (+1pts)

Loss at Michigan State, 72-88 (-16pts)

Loss vs Illinois, 57-73 (-16pts)

Loss at Minnesota, 73-88 (-15pts)

Loss vs. Michigan, 57-93 (-36pts)

 

Records:
Games between 0-4 points: 6-4 (5-3)
Games between 5-9 points: 1-3 (0-2)

Double-digit games: 5-11 (1-7)

 

Top 5 largest victories: 32 (University of Mary), 22 (Sacramento State), 16 (Penn State), 12 (South Dakota), 11 (Louisiana Tech)

 

Top 5 largest defeats: 36 (Michigan), 17 (Kansas), 16 (Michigan State), 16 (Illinois), 15 (Creighton/Minnesota)

[Silverbacked1]

36 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Someone, if you have time, please look at our average margin of victory/defeat against the rpi top 100 prior to the last 4 games.

 

And then compare that to the average margin of victory/defeat against rpi top 100 teams in the last 4 games.

 

I will tell you without you having to look that before the last 4 games, we were 7-12 against ESPN's rpi top 100.  Last 4, we were 0-4.

 

Is there anything that happened just prior to the last 4 games that might have had an effect on player morale or anything like that?

 

Yeah wasn't it Lee's article?

[jason2486]

19 minutes ago, Silverbacked1 said:

 

Yeah wasn't it Lee's article?

 

I could definitely listen to the argument that those 2 articles by the OWH put unnecessary pressure on 18-22 yo college kids. Who knows what crossed their mind. They do appear to have played scared since those came out. For whatever reason, they are doubting themselves, their coaches, or both.

[Silverbacked1]

Something else might have happened at that time that we won't know about, but it was all about the same time.  

 

Remember how a lot of us kind of went why is Lee writing this right now?  

 

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by Silverbacked1

[Norm Peterson]

Here's what I have after taking 5 minutes to crunch the numbers:

 

Of the ESPN top 100 rpi teams played prior to the last 4 games of the season, our record was 7-12 and the average margin was -4.05 with a range of +16 (#97 PSU) to -17 (@ #2 KU).

 

Over our last 4 games, our record was 0-4 and the average margin was -20.75 with a range of -15 (@ #20 Minn) to -36 (#46 Mich).

 

Our worst home loss to anyone in the top 50-100 teams was a -16 loss to #59 Illinois in the last 4 games.

 

Outside of the last 4 games, our worst home loss to teams 50-100 was a -8 loss to #52 Northwestern.  We also had a -1 loss to #79 Ohio State.

 

And, Silverbacked, what prompted Lee B to write that column?

 

 

[uneblinstu]

I don't think the Shatel article had much impact. He's not around the team, I doubt many of the players even know who he is. Lee, on the other hand, they all know. He's got a powerful voice when it comes to NU hoops, for better or worse. He's around the team all the time. I could very much see that article playing to the subconscious of the team.

[Silverbacked1]

19 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

Here's what I have after taking 5 minutes to crunch the numbers:

 

Of the ESPN top 100 rpi teams played prior to the last 4 games of the season, our record was 7-12 and the average margin was -4.05 with a range of +16 (#97 PSU) to -17 (@ #2 KU).

 

Over our last 4 games, our record was 0-4 and the average margin was -20.75 with a range of -15 (@ #20 Minn) to -36 (#46 Mich).

 

Our worst home loss to anyone in the top 50-100 teams was a -16 loss to #59 Illinois in the last 4 games.

 

Outside of the last 4 games, our worst home loss to teams 50-100 was a -8 loss to #52 Northwestern.  We also had a -1 loss to #79 Ohio State.

 

And, Silverbacked, what prompted Lee B to write that column?

 

 

 

Don't know what is was, I was just throwing out an idea to see if it would stick.  

Edited March 7, 2017 by Silverbacked1

[49r]

1 hour ago, HuskerFever said:

@49r care to fill in the RPIs?

 

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/teams/rpi/NEB/nebraska-cornhuskers

 

GAME BY GAME

WINS RANK DATE SITE OPPONENT SCORE 18 Jan. 29 Home Purdue 83-80 21 Nov. 24 Neutral Dayton 80-78 25 Jan. 1 Away Maryland 67-65 72 Jan. 5 Home Iowa 93-90 78 Feb. 18 Away Ohio State 58-57 81 Dec. 28 Away Indiana 87-83 99 Feb. 14 Home Penn State 82-66 108 Dec. 3 Home South Dakota 73-61 116 Nov. 19 Home Louisiana Tech 65-54 301 Nov. 13 Home Sacramento State 83-61 319 Dec. 20 Home Southern 81-76

LOSSES RANK DATE SITE OPPONENT SCORE 2 Dec. 10 Away Kansas 72-89 15 Nov. 25 Away UCLA 71-82 20 Mar. 2 Away Minnesota 73-88 26 Dec. 7 Home Creighton 62-77 38 Feb. 9 Home Wisconsin 69-70 45 Nov. 27 Neutral Virginia Tech 53-66 47 Jan. 14 Away Michigan 85-91 47 Mar. 5 Home Michigan 57-93 48 Feb. 2 Home Michigan State 61-72 48 Feb. 23 Away Michigan State 72-88 54 Jan. 8 Home Northwestern 66-74 54 Jan. 26 Away Northwestern 61-73 57 Feb. 26 Home Illinois 57-73 67 Nov. 30 Away Clemson 58-60 72 Feb. 5 Away Iowa 70-81 78 Jan. 18 Home Ohio State 66-67 170 Jan. 21 Away Rutgers 64-65 182 Dec. 18 Home Gardner-Webb 62-70

Edited March 7, 2017 by 49r

[cipsucks]

41 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

I don't think the Shatel article had much impact. He's not around the team, I doubt many of the players even know who he is. Lee, on the other hand, they all know. He's got a powerful voice when it comes to NU hoops, for better or worse. He's around the team all the time. I could very much see that article playing to the subconscious of the team.

 

I'm truly living in an alternative universe.  Lee writes an article in support of Miles, taking shots at SE and Boehm, and somehow that makes the team clutch up and play like it's that time of the month for each and everyone of them?

 

That's part two of living in this messed up universe.  There's a frickin" coloring book out called Toni the Tampon which says men get periods, too.

 

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/culture/sarah-stites/2017/03/06/toni-tampon-coloring-book-reminds-kids-men-get-periods-too

 

I just need to get drunk and stay that way til sanity returns to my universe....

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2017 by cipsucks
wrong link fixed it