Fire Miles Talk (complete BS)

[49r]

2 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

 

Well, obviously I don't have "concrete evidence" that Nebraska could get any of these guys.

 

As far as Nebraska going after Greg Marshall last time...This is a very different situation than last time. Literally every single example I listed in the post that you referenced happened after Nebraska's last coaching search.

 

Also, I would keep in mind, that what I would consider "opening up the checkbook" is probably very different than what Osborne probably would have offered anyone during the last coaching search.

 

1).  When you make the statement "examples of proven coaches that Nebraska could get" you imply that there is some evidence suggesting a reason other than pure speculation that they would accept a position at Nebraska

 

2).  I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here, particularly the last sentence.

 

3).  Again, IIRC, Osborne almost tripled the NUBB coaching compensation with his hire and was prepared to do even more for the right guy (Marshall, Altman, Boyle).  That was a pretty large fiscal leap of faith, what more did you want from him?

[49r]

7 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

 

That we didn't get to the wish list of name coaches on page one even with a diffused topic title is quite the surprise. 

 

 

Truly.  Well, at least our annual "fire him now" thread is much less vitriolic than the one on Huskerboard.  Man, those guys are irate!

[jimmykc]

Funny that a topic listed as BS by the originator has now gone on for 3 pages and appears to still have some life. Had we just played the second half of the last game like the first, the topic would not have even come up. But such is the allure of message boards.

[khoock]

@Donkey Nana is actually blowing up pretty quickly. I've read numerous recruiting articles naming him as one of the most underrated recruits in the nation.

 

Should be Top 150 by the time he makes it here. So far seems like a really good find by Miles and Co.

[Hooper]

Tim Miles' biggest problem in my view, and why we're in the situation we're in right now, is that his recruiting during the first three years of his tenure was horrific. I don't believe coach Miles brought a staff to Lincoln when he was first hired that was capable of recruiting the type of player needed to elevate this program, especially after Chin Coleman wasn't made an AC and subsequently moved on.

 

I loved coach Smith, but his recruiting of HS players was hot garbage. Harriman brought in two nice players in addition to one who wasn't even remotely close to being a B1G player in Vooch, but the two foreign prospects he brought in were longer-term developmental guys. Tai has become a great player, but it took years. Jack is marginal in terms of his athleticism for this level, but still has a lot of potential, and I'm glad to have him.

 

Coach Miles eventually righted the ship by finally bringing in ACs who could recruit to this level. Molinari and Hunter have completely rebuilt this basketball team with quality players, but those guys are still relatively young and will take time to develop. I'm not crazy about how our offense looks, but attribute most of it to an inability to consistently knock down outside shots. I feel that the critics of our offensive style would feel differently if we had more scoring punch from the outside, especially as a counter to zone defenses. RPIII's departure has turned out to be a devastating blow. I'd hoped that McVeigh could mitigate it, but that simply hasn't materialized in most games.

 

Personally, I feel that the 2017-2018 season will be a pivotal one for coach Miles and will likely determine whether he's still coaching this team in 2018-2019. There simply can't be any more excuses next year for not making the NCAA tournament, or, at the very least, being a high NIT seed. I feel like I'm currently enduring the last season in which the excuses and rationalizations for not winning more still hold weight, and my patience as a fan for poor play and offensive impotence will have been exhausted by the end of this year.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by Hooper

[nustudent]

7 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Tim Miles' biggest problem in my view, and why we're in the situation we're in right now, is that his recruiting during the first three years of his tenure was horrific. I don't believe coach Miles brought a staff to Lincoln when he was first hired that was capable of recruiting the type of player needed to elevate this program, especially after Chin Coleman wasn't made an AC and subsequently moved on.

 

I loved coach Smith, but his recruiting of HS players was hot garbage. Harriman brought in two nice players in addition to one who wasn't even remotely close to being a B1G player in Vooch, but the two foreign prospects he brought in were longer-term developmental guys. Tai has become a great player, but it took years. Jack is marginal in terms of his athleticism for this level, but still has a lot of potential, and I'm glad to have him.

 

Coach Miles eventually righted the ship by finally bringing in ACs who could recruit to this level. Molinari and Hunter have completely rebuilt this basketball team with quality players, but those guys are still relatively young and will take time to develop. I'm not crazy about how our offense looks, but attribute most of it to an inability to consistently knock down outside shots. I feel that the critics of our offensive style would feel differently if we had more scoring punch from the outside, especially as a counter to zone defenses. RPIII's departure has turned out to be a devastating blow. I'd hoped that McVeigh could mitigate it, but that simply hasn't materialized in most games.

 

Personally, I feel that the 2017-2018 season will be a pivotal one for coach Miles and will likely determine whether he's still coaching this team in 2018-2019. There simply can't be any more excuses next year for not making the NCAA tournament, or, at the very least, being a high NIT seed. I feel like I'm currently enduring the last season in which the excuses and rationalizations for not winning more still hold weight, and my patience as a fan for poor play and offensive impotence will have been exhausted by the end of this year.

 

 

I'd agree with a lot of this.

 

Though I don't think excuses or rationalizations can be made this year.   This is his team/program.   Any errors/talent deficits/lack of experience is on him.   No longer any Doc hold out.   He can survive a .500ish season this year.   But IMO, that makes next year his defining year.

[Silverbacked1]

Thius was tweeted yeterday:

 

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Bolingbrook’s Nana Akenten is the real deal. I’ve seen very few 6-6 athletes shoot as well as he can in high school. Nebraska has a player.

 

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  LockportHoops ‏@LockportHoops  12h12 hours ago

  @michaelsobrien @brookhoops you're right on with that one! He's a great player!

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[Nebrasketballer]

30 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

1).  When you make the statement "examples of proven coaches that Nebraska could get" you imply that there is some evidence suggesting a reason other than pure speculation that they would accept a position at Nebraska

 

2).  I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say here, particularly the last sentence.

 

3).  Again, IIRC, Osborne almost tripled the NUBB coaching compensation with his hire and was prepared to do even more for the right guy (Marshall, Altman, Boyle).  That was a pretty large fiscal leap of faith, what more did you want from him?

 

Ok. Well, since I do not believe that we are at a point that Eichorst or anyone else in the athletic department would be having conversations with other coaches, that would also mean that I do not believe there is any "concrete evidence" that these coaches would come to Nebraska. And since I do not believe the conversations have started yet, that would mean any discussion on the topic would be "pure speculation". This is a message board. There is "pure speculation" all over.

 

I wasn't implying "there is some evidence suggesting a reason other than pure speculation that they would accept a position at Nebraska". I was addressing the notion of "Nebraska can't fire Miles, because...who else can they get?" I was pointing out that there are numerous factors that make Nebrasketball's current situation very different than it has been for any of the last couple of coaching searches.

 

I guess that I'm not aware "concrete evidence" that Marshall, Altman, etc... were offered the position during the last coaching search, but chose to turn it down. But even if that was in fact the case...

 

There are multiple improvements throughout the entire basketball program from that time. The obvious upgrades of Arena, area directly surrounding the arena, practice facilities, increased financial resources, Big Ten conference affiliation, etc.

 

But another glaring difference is current roster talent, compared to what it was the last coaching search.

 

Look at Nebraska's current roster. 5-6 former Rivals150 players that are primarily in the freshman and sophomore class. And all of them will be back for at least 1-2 more seasons (if they don't transfer). There is enough talent on this roster that a coach can come in and win right away. That was not the case last time.

 

Compare that to what a prospective coach would have seen if they would have looked at the roster during the last coaching search. Remember that Nebraska's roster was so bad that Tim Miles had to have student tryouts, because there were not even enough scholarship players to fill the roster. That is an incredible difference.

 

And as far as "Osborne almost tripled the NUBB coaching compensation with his hire and was prepared to do even more for the right guy (Marshall, Altman, Boyle).  That was a pretty large fiscal leap of faith, what more did you want from him?"

 

I guess I don't judge the level of coaching compensation by using the benchmark of what has been paid in the past by a Nebraska program that up to that point had made minimal commitment/investment prior to that. I would judge it based on the current market and what other programs are paying that are at a level that Nebraska wants to be at.

 

As far as "concrete evidence" concerning this topic, all that I think we have is that Miles led Nebraska to 2 consecutive sub-.500 seasons, and then his boss elected not to extend his contract. Now, there is a legitimate chance that Nebraska might only win 7 nonconference games and end up with a 3rd consecutive sub-.500 season, or very close to it. I guess we can all decide for ourselves what the implications of that evidence is/will be. But until Eichorst does/or says anything himself, I guess all we have is "pure speculation."

 

 

 

 

[49r]

Thanks for putting all that effort into your reply @Nebrasketballer - I guess you view making a coaching change and getting the hot name to accept a job is a panacea, nothing wrong with that notion I suppose.  Except it has proven to be as much of a crap shoot as going under the radar with a top assistant or lesser known mid major guy...or sticking with what you already have.  Not to mention the fact that it takes two to tango.  You won't be able to just "open up the checkbook" and dictate your terms on who you get to come.  We tried it in the past, I'm sure we'll try it in the future, but I don't seem to recall one coach that we've been able to money-slap into being our coach.

 

Remember Bill Byrne's very public attempt to hire Bill Self?  He was willing to pay as much as a million bucks to get Self, no luck.

 

Besides, the hot name doesn't always translate to success.  You think Illinois fans are truly happy with where they've gotten so far with Groce?  How about Texas and Shaka?  It looks like finally Alford is doing something at UCLA, but he's probably lucky to still be there.  Que Sera, I suppose.  It's cold and people are grumpy.  Might as well have something to talk about.

 

But humor me and explain what you meant by this:

"Literally every single example I listed in the post that you referenced happened after Nebraska's last coaching search."

 

I still don't get what you mean there.

Edited December 9, 2016 by 49r

[Buglem]

While I agree that a lot has changed since Miles took the job, most of it positive, there's one thing that will not have changed if Miles doesn't make it this year or next - the perception the HC of Nebrasketball is a soul-sucking, career-ending job with little upside.  Miles is a proven program builder at multiple levels of basketball.  If he fails here (I don't think he will) the perception in the coaching community will likely at least in part be "holy crap, that dude couldn't pull it off, can anybody?".  Facilities, players, $$$ can all help lure a coach but none of them want their coaching career to die a lonely death on the prairie in a high major job where the challenges are high and the history of the program is low.  Not saying you wouldn't get someone decent, but I'd be shocked if any of the four on the list above were interested.  There's a reason Miles was given a 7 year contract to start with.  I know we would like to see a higher win total the last couple years but how quickly we forget the NCAA appearance that was our 1st in 17 years...

[Hooper]

39 minutes ago, nustudent said:

I'd agree with a lot of this.

 

Though I don't think excuses or rationalizations can be made this year.   This is his team/program.   Any errors/talent deficits/lack of experience is on him.   No longer any Doc hold out.   He can survive a .500ish season this year.   But IMO, that makes next year his defining year.

 

What you said about this being 100% Miles' team now is undoubtedly true. The question is whether or not you're prepared to essentially grant him a "reset" beginning last year given that the program's recruiting has been night and day different from what it was during the first three years of his tenure. Beginning with the 2015 recruiting class, he committed to build this team through the development of HS players, and given that Nebraska isn't getting the Jabari Parkers and Lonzo Balls of the world, these young players will take a year or two to develop. 

 

Personally, I gave Miles a reset, so to speak, that began last season. This is now year two of the reset. I want to see an upward trajectory for the program in terms of wins/losses, development of players, and sustained high-level recruiting. The process will require some patience, but I personally need to continue to see a clear upward trajectory, and it will have to have a relatively steep curve going forward.

 

Some fans may not be as inclined to grant Miles the reset I did, and will instead evaluate him from the time he took over for Sadler. I, on the other hand, am okay cutting him a bit more slack due to the restructuring of his coaching staff and dramatic elevation in the caliber of player being signed.

[bball23]

We are 5-4 and have lost to the #2 and #10 team in America with a road loss @Clemson (who some think will make NCAA tourney) and a loss on a neutral court vs another team that some say think will make the NCAA tourney and the sky is falling?

 

Call me crazy, but I still think THIS year this team will do good things.  The B10 isn't as strong as it has been in years past.  I think there are plenty of wins to be had this year.  The B10 did us no favors by sending us to Maryland and IU to start the slate, but I still see some good things happening this year.

 

Also, so many are saying that a new coach would have a good roster to work with.  Wrong.  With coaching changes means player changes.  These guys were recruited by Miles.  You don't think 2-3 of them up and leave?  You're crazy.  Look at the women's team.  Coaching change means players change.  Means we start all over and the merry-go-round of NU hoops continues to spin for the next 2-3 years.  The next coach finally gets his guys in place for years 4-5, we haven't been winning, fans want him fired and away we go again.

 

In my mind no doubt Miles gets to finish out until this sophomore class is seniors.

 

Yes, people can say it is his fault that his program is doing this.  But let me ask you this.  Do you think Miles knew Walt and TP would leave for the draft when our team finally had some momentum?  Did we know that Andrew White's helicopter father would want him to leave a month before school starts?  Again, we can say its on Miles to keep those kids, but I can't think Miles was pushing them out the door by any means.  They made a choice, it hurt us, and we have paid the price for it.

 

I am putting it in writing that I still think this team does well this year.  Yes it stinks to lose to CU, but CU is REALLY good this year (as much as it pains me to say that).  The one game I really wish we could have back is Clemson as that game was ours for the taking.  Sitting 6-3 with losses to UCLA, VT and CU doesn't look so bad. 

 

GBR!

[FredsSlacks]

whether you want to blame miles or not, a big reason for our recent struggles is that petteway and white both left a year early.

 

we're not a top tier program that can replace 20 point scorers at the drop of a hat like kentucky and duke.

 

If the current group stays together, and you mix in nana and palmer, we'll see some success at some point in the next few years.

 

 

[huskerbaseball13]

12 minutes ago, TimSmiles said:

whether you want to blame miles or not, a big reason for our recent struggles is that petteway and white both left a year early.

 

we're not a top tier program that can replace 20 point scorers at the drop of a hat like kentucky and duke.

 

If the current group stays together, and you mix in nana and palmer, we'll see some success at some point in the next few years.

 

 

 

I want to believe this. But unless there are some changes on the offensive end I'm afraid we are stuck in the mud.  I was really hoping Coach Lewis would breath some life into the program on that end but I really don't see any difference from this year to years past in what we are trying to do. 

[khoock]

Not to keep bringing this up. But I think our offense looks a lot better if you know who doesn't screw us over in the middle of the summer. Tai, Jack, and Glynn have all been solid 3 pt shooters. Throw in AW3 to that mix and I think we are all much more pleased with 

[khoock]

Miles has caught some bad breaks.

-Year 1: inherits a roster nightmare that has no business winning 5 conference games.

-Year 3: TP dealing with pro aspirations and the death of his mother, Walt losing passion for the game, and Moses and L Smith injuries.

-Year 4 offseason: just when Miles seems to have assembled enough talent to get us over the hump and get this program rolling, his best returning player bounces in the middle of the summer.

 

I am acknowledging that as the HC everything falls on him. Both the good and bad. But still that's some unfortunate circumstances. If Miles is given the time to develop (which he has proven he can do) these Top 150 kids, all these losing seasons will be worth it bc we will be special.

[Silverbacked1]

I think we are doing more on Offense we took 71 shots against CU.  We just are making 71 shots.  If you watch at Time outs Lewis is truely coaching when we go stale or are having problems with our O.  We were doing things earlier just didn't see it last game.  As I said earlier they were so very tight before the game, MJ looked like he had forgot how to basketball, let alone run an O.

[hskr4life]

My take is that we just haven't found that identity yet.  We have seen flashes of what could be.  That first 10 minutes vs Dayton and pounding the rock.  All the open shots against CU. We just didn't make them.  

 

We we are right there.  We aren't throwing up prayers with 2 seconds left on the buzzer (most of the time).  We have the players now that can create for themselves.  

 

Right now now the shots just aren't falling.  When they do though (first 10 minutes vs Dayton and SD) we look as tough as anyone.

 

Losing... if you look at it the right way... helps a team learn HOW to win.  I am still 100 percent favorable that at 6-4 or 5-5, we'll be a better team for playing the schedule we did early.

 

 

[HuskerFever]

4 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

That we didn't get to the wish list of name coaches on page one even with a diffused topic title is quite the surprise. 

 

Could you see this becoming one of those infamous 20-pagers?

[hhcmatt]

Just now, HuskerFever said:

Could you see this becoming one of those infamous 20-pagers?

 

Way too early in the season unless we choke on a couple of those holiday cupcakes.

[HuskerBB]

8 hours ago, Nebrasketballer said:

 

Gregg Marshall - Wichita State

Archie Miller - Dayton
Dana Altman - Oregon
Scott Drew - Baylor

 

With the decline in the Mo Valley following CU's exit - Marshall might be more likely to look for a higher profile job - but he has already turned down better offers than NU and may well have more down the road.   Plus we would never win a bidding war for a basketball coach with either Wichita State or Oregon - bot those schools have more money available for basketball coaching hires than NU.  Phil Knight gives Oregon whatever they want and there is huge oil money in Wichita and all they care about is basketball there.

 

Scott Drew is crooked as they come and hopefully we would never get a coach from the cesspool of an athletic department that exists at Baylor.

 

Archie Miller is a good coach - but resume is no better than Miles' was when he came here.

 

 

[HuskerBB]

7 hours ago, Hooper said:

Tim Miles' biggest problem in my view, and why we're in the situation we're in right now, is that his recruiting during the first three years of his tenure was horrific. I don't believe coach Miles brought a staff to Lincoln when he was first hired that was capable of recruiting the type of player needed to elevate this program, especially after Chin Coleman wasn't made an AC and subsequently moved on.

 

 

Recruiting is always more difficult during a transition - particularly at a school with little local talent.  Plus Doc was a complete and total disaster as a recruiter so we had not relationships with kids who might be looking at the school.   Miles did get quality transfers early (Pettaway and Pitchford) that gave us a quick fix - but we did not get the freshmen along with them to fill in the gaps until the last couple years.   But recruiting today involves initial contacts with kids at a much younger age to develop relationships which makes it harder to get the kids you want right away when you move to a new school.   But there is no question that now Miles is getting players that are at an entirely different level from what we were recruiting before he got here.   We need to see the results on the court - but at least we are not in the downward spiral we were in before he arrived.

 

[Nebrasketballer]

1 hour ago, HuskerBB said:

 

With the decline in the Mo Valley following CU's exit - Marshall might be more likely to look for a higher profile job - but he has already turned down better offers than NU and may well have more down the road.   Plus we would never win a bidding war for a basketball coach with either Wichita State or Oregon - bot those schools have more money available for basketball coaching hires than NU.  Phil Knight gives Oregon whatever they want and there is huge oil money in Wichita and all they care about is basketball there.

 

Scott Drew is crooked as they come and hopefully we would never get a coach from the cesspool of an athletic department that exists at Baylor.

 

Archie Miller is a good coach - but resume is no better than Miles' was when he came here.

 

 

 

My point wasn't to say that Nebraska's options have to be those 4 specific coaches. I was just throwing a few names out that I think Nebraska could legitimately get, if they were willing to pay for them. And I will disagree about Nebraska not being able to compete for Altman or Marshall. Now that Nebraska will be a full member of the Big Ten...it won't be an issue of whether or not Nebraska is able to pay. It will be an issue of whether they are willing to pay.

 

My point is simply that Nebraska doesn't have to feel trapped because they don't think they can get any other good coaches. I think there are a lot of good coaches out there that Nebraska could get.

 

I think this is another one of the many options that Nebraska could have a realistic chance of landing (No evidence. Pure speculation.):

 

Bino Ranson - Maryland (Assistant)

 

http://www.umterps.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=207324750

 

 

[FredsSlacks]

6 hours ago, khoock said:

Miles has caught some bad breaks.

-Year 1: inherits a roster nightmare that has no business winning 5 conference games.

-Year 3: TP dealing with pro aspirations and the death of his mother, Walt losing passion for the game, and Moses and L Smith injuries.

-Year 4 offseason: just when Miles seems to have assembled enough talent to get us over the hump and get this program rolling, his best returning player bounces in the middle of the summer.

 

I am acknowledging that as the HC everything falls on him. Both the good and bad. But still that's some unfortunate circumstances. If Miles is given the time to develop (which he has proven he can do) these Top 150 kids, all these losing seasons will be worth it bc we will be special.

all true, but if we have to make more excuses for year 5 and 6, then we can talk about letting miles go.

[uneblinstu]

7 hours ago, khoock said:

Tai, Jack, and Glynn have all been solid 3 pt shooters.

Has he? He's shooting below what he did last year. He's an ok 3 point shooter. If he's not going to be more than that, one of the freshmen needs to be starting over him, IMO. If NU just shot their season average coming into the game from 3 on Wednesday, it's a much different result. That's just 4 makes over the course of the game. They're next to last in the B1G from beyond the arc. That, more than anything else, is what Miles needs to find right now.