Hot Seat

[Husker4theSpurs]

8 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

Two Top 4 finishes & a 19 win season, in 7 years. So roughly half the time you’re one of the best teams in the B1G, that was unacceptable to you? Just so we’re clear, because I grow weary of revisiting the facts regarding Miles.

Three losing seasons in a row for the first time since the 1960s is not exactly a great fact either. Probably one of the most disappointing seasons in history following the 2014 NCAA bid when we went from 11-10 to white hot.

[HuskerFever]

Adolf Lewandowski had a better record than our current coach. Maybe we find a phone booth and try to dial him up?

 

Nobody's going to rehire our old coaches; who cares if somebody liked one former coach and you don't, and vice versa? It's a weird flex. It was a much simpler time when we would get into discussions about how unobtainable Hoiberg would've been for this program and how we need to focus on coaches who had other means of proven success.

[Handy Johnson]

34 minutes ago, coughunter said:

5 out of 7 years finishing 10th or worse.  One year got hot, one year conference was down and schedule was weak and didnt make the tourney.  Great, i get it.  You love Miles.  Fact is he hit his ceiling and couldnt get over the hump and be consistent to compete.  7 years with his 8 lookimg at a total rebuild made sense to move on, especially if at the time you knew you could get Fred.

I’ll never scoff @ 19 wins & the year the Conference was “down” the 5th place team played for the National Title. So now what…? 

[BannedAccount]

2 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

I’ll never scoff @ 19 wins & the year the Conference was “down” the 5th place team played for the National Title. So now what…? 

Goes to show you how far off the 4th place team was. If that was the norm in those 7 years then yeah.  Unfortunately the norm was finishing in the bottom 4 on a yearly basis.

[brfrad]

23 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

Miles' San Jose team is 0-10 in conference right now, can we let go of the narrative that we lost something with his firing? Maybe he'll get them turned around eventually, but there are plenty of first-year coaches who have done a lot better this season. And a lot of them inherited hot messes too.

 

He was 52–76 in the BIG over 7 seasons, enough time to prove what he could do. The fact that the Hoiberg era stinks to high heaven doesn't mean the Miles era was acceptable.

Colorado State was 0 - 16 in conference his first year there.  He was 4 - 12 in his 2nd year.  His 3rd year they went 7 - 9 and made the CBI.  His 4th year they went 9 - 7 and made the NIT.  In his 4th year, they went 8 - 6 with an NCAA tournament appearance.  At least he showed improvement.  Hoiberg was 2 - 18 first year, 3 - 16 his 2nd year, and 0 - 12 currently.  I have more faith in Miles turning San Jose State around than Hoiberg turning us around.  

 

I would still have fired Miles and hired Hoiberg.  I anticipated us being on the bubble by the 3rd year.

[cornfed24-7]

3 hours ago, coughunter said:

Goes to show you how far off the 4th place team was. 

It wasn't though. Until I die I refuse to let this narrative live It was a royal screw job not getting selected for the tournament. I believe it was the first year the NCAA change the metric to decide invites. No BIGTEN team EVER before had been left out of the tournament with a conference record/finish we had. Was it down a bit sure. We still should have been in. Also, Lunardi is a doche.

Edited February 6, 2022 by cornfed24-7

[BannedAccount]

Just now, cornfed24-7 said:

It wasn't though. Until die I refuse to let this narrative live It was a royal screw job not getting selected for the tournament. I believe it was the first year the NCAA change the metric to decide invites. No team BIGTEN team EVER before had been left out of the tournament with a conference record/finish we had. Was it down a bit sure. We still should have been in. Also, Lunardi is doche.

I think you need to let it go as well as the Miles narrative.  Its not changing.  They had 1 good win that year and reversed it in the tourney.  The had chances and blew it.  It sucks but it is what it is.  Again it was followed up by another bottom finish when expectations were high.  Dont give me the Copeland injury cause things were trending down prior to that. 

[cornfed24-7]

1 minute ago, coughunter said:

I think you need to let it go as well as the Miles narrative.  Its not changing.  They had 1 good win that year and reversed it in the tourney.  The had chances and blew it.  It sucks but it is what it is.  Again it was followed up by another bottom finish when expectations were high.  Dont give me the Copeland injury cause things were trending down prior to that. 

Nope. I agree Miles hit his ceiling and he needed to go. But I will never agree we weren't screwed that year. And I think people that want to argue he should have been let go have more than enough points in their arsenal than needing to use the revisionist history they are using for that season.

[throwback]

9 hours ago, huskerbill85 said:

I keep coming back to if he's fired this year with the whole buyout it's going to be hard to pony up for a quality coach. Does anyone know what his buyout is after next year? On the other hand if he stays he's got a decent class coming in next year. Maybe the new coach the year could in the year after and have some talent? If he leaves this year the new coach would have nothing. Assuming Trevs words regarding patience weren't just BS I think Fred gets another year.

If the money is there for a buyout, there will be money for a new coach. Whether we could lure a coach with a level of success equal to what Hoiberg had when we hired him is highly doubtful though. I'd imagine the next coach will be a mid-major type guy and will have a significantly lower salary than what Fred has.

 

I'd also imagine that if Fred gets fired, that recruiting class completely falls apart. That class was sold on Fred's NBA ties. Most of them are not sticking around for a different coach. It doesn't matter any longer whether a kid signed a letter of intent or not. No new coach is going to hold a kid to that LOI if he wants out of it after the old coach is fired. It's just not worth the blowback.

 

All that said, he may very well get another year. I question whether he truly wants it, though. Hopefully if he does, he's willing to make significant changes to approach, philosophy, staff members, etc., or we're just running out the clock here.

 

 

We took a big swing and missed with Hoiberg, unfortunately. But it was definitely a swing worth taking at the time. I appreciated what Miles did here, but if you have a chance to go get a Fred Hoiberg-level coach at the time we had that chance, you do it 100 times out of 100.

 

 

As far as the buyout, Trev is a smart guy. Maybe they can work something out to reduce the total cost. Most buyouts like this are paid in increments over the life of the original contract. I'm sure Fred has his eye on a NBA front office job. Maybe NU gives him a reduced lump sum payment, and he takes it, just to put an end to it, so both parties can move on. 

 

Who knows? I know there is a lot of talk that we can't afford to fire him. But with lagging fan interest, attendance, etc., sooner or later you hit the tipping point where you can't afford not to fire him as well. Not sure when that tipping point arrives. And the football situation greatly complicates things.

 

Trev walked into a hot mess. I like his chances of cleaning it up, though.

 

[The Polish Rifle]

4 minutes ago, throwback said:

As far as the buyout, Trev is a smart guy. Maybe they can work something out to reduce the total cost. Most buyouts like this are paid in increments over the life of the original contract. I'm sure Fred has his eye on a NBA front office job. Maybe NU gives him a reduced lump sum payment, and he takes it, just to put an end to it, so both parties can move on. 

 

Shatel mentioned the NBA several times in his article yesterday. It's obvious Fred wants to be at that level having left ISU for the NBA in the past. If Fred is sick of this and takes an NBA offer for a Front Office position or Asst Coach position - wouldn't we be off the hook for a buyout? I'm sure we would be owed a buyout by the NBA team, but I'm sure Trev would waive it and send a thank you note instead. 

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

32 minutes ago, coughunter said:

I think you need to let it go as well as the Miles narrative.  Its not changing.  They had 1 good win that year and reversed it in the tourney.  The had chances and blew it.  It sucks but it is what it is.  Again it was followed up by another bottom finish when expectations were high.  Dont give me the Copeland injury cause things were trending down prior to that. 

Seriously though, what was the name of your dog that Miles ran over?

[hhcmatt]

I came to the realization yesterday that I have no emotional investment in Fred. Tim, Doc...I was emotionally invested in them to where I could give them the benefit of the doubt. Logically I could tell myself it was for the best to move on but emotionally I felt those guys were bought into this school as much as any of us.

 

It's just not there with Fred... It's just a business decision at this point and that's why for me it's not difficult at all.

[HB]

16 minutes ago, CrazyforNUHOOPS said:

Seriously though, what was the name of your dog that Miles ran over?

Sek  ran over his dog.  Miles ran over his cat.  

Edited February 6, 2022 by HB

[Fullbacksympathy]

1 hour ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

Three losing seasons in a row for the first time since the 1960s is not exactly a great fact either. Probably one of the most disappointing seasons in history following the 2014 NCAA bid when we went from 11-10 to white hot.

My #1 will always be the 90s NIT champs with three NBA starters on the court.  That team should’ve been a title contender.  

[hal9000]

I've always been amazed at how much money NU can come up with after seemingly not having enough money for something.  

[demone]

41 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

I came to the realization yesterday that I have no emotional investment in Fred. Tim, Doc...I was emotionally invested in them to where I could give them the benefit of the doubt. Logically I could tell myself it was for the best to move on but emotionally I felt those guys were bought into this school as much as any of us.

 

It's just not there with Fred... It's just a business decision at this point and that's why for me it's not difficult at all.

Completely agree - for me, it goes even further to the players on the court. There aren't many that I have any type of connection with like I've had in the past. Not everyone fits this description, but for the most part it does feel like a group of misfits and mercenaries out for themselves without regard for the program at all. I guess it's to be expected given the recruiting profile in use. There is simply nothing good about this program, top to bottom. Ctrl+Alt+Del is the only option at this point. As much as I hate the idea of paying people to go away, it needs to happen soon and I would be in favor of doing so before the end of the season.

[HuskerFever]

1 hour ago, coughunter said:

Goes to show you how far off the 4th place team was. If that was the norm in those 7 years then yeah.  Unfortunately the norm was finishing in the bottom 4 on a yearly basis.

 

For what it's worth, one coach had two 4th place finishes in the conference. The last time we were that high in the standings was 1997-1998 with Danny Nee.

 

Regardless of what coach got us those 4th place finishes, it's more of a point that our program isn't a top-half conference team. It was nice that we were able to buck that trend even just for a bit.

 

If you normalize each of the team's conference finishes to a 14-team conference, here's where our coaches have fared. (Note that it's not until Joe Cipriano where we are consistently a top-half of the conference team.)

 

Average Conference Standing by Coach (normalized to a 14-team conference):
1. Fred Hoiberg: 14.0

2. Adolph J. Lewndowski: 10.3

3. Doc Sadler: 10.1

4. Jerry Bush: 9.9

5. Tim Miles: 9.8

6. Barry Collier: 9.5

7. L. F. "Pop" Klein: 9.3

8. Danny Nee: 8.6

...

15. Joe Cipriano: 6.9

16. Moe Iba: 5.8

...

[Handy Johnson]

2 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

For what it's worth, one coach had two 4th place finishes in the conference. The last time we were that high in the standings was 1997-1998 with Danny Nee.

 

Regardless of what coach got us those 4th place finishes, it's more of a point that our program isn't a top-half conference team. It was nice that we were able to buck that trend even just for a bit.

 

If you normalize each of the team's conference finishes to a 14-team conference, here's where our coaches have fared. (Note that it's not until Joe Cipriano where we are consistently a top-half of the conference team.)

 

Average Conference Standing by Coach (normalized to a 14-team conference):
1. Fred Hoiberg: 14.0

2. Adolph J. Lewndowski: 10.3

3. Doc Sadler: 10.1

4. Jerry Bush: 9.9

5. Tim Miles: 9.8

6. Barry Collier: 9.5

7. L. F. "Pop" Klein: 9.3

8. Danny Nee: 8.6

...

15. Joe Cipriano: 6.9

16. Moe Iba: 5.8

...

Also, ask yourself if that 19 win team that won 2 games in the B1G Tournament (with 6 players I might add) looked like a “bottom feeder”…?

[BannedAccount]

1 hour ago, CrazyforNUHOOPS said:

Seriously though, what was the name of your dog that Miles ran over?

What was the name of your dog Miles bought for you?  Just let it go.  I liked the guy and wanted it ti work, but it didnt.  We got at the time was the best guy available.  It hasnt worked so we will move on and find the next

[BannedAccount]

2 hours ago, HuskerFever said:

Adolf Lewandowski had a better record than our current coach. Maybe we find a phone booth and try to dial him up?

 

Nobody's going to rehire our old coaches; who cares if somebody liked one former coach and you don't, and vice versa? It's a weird flex. It was a much simpler time when we would get into discussions about how unobtainable Hoiberg would've been for this program and how we need to focus on coaches who had other means of proven success.

Just a weird hill to die on to live in the past with a guy that peaked and to think that one season can never get better here.

[BannedAccount]

1 hour ago, cornfed24-7 said:

Nope. I agree Miles hit his ceiling and he needed to go. But I will never agree we weren't screwed that year. And I think people that want to argue he should have been let go have more than enough points in their arsenal than needing to use the revisionist history they are using for that season.

I guess we just disagree cause there was no point in that final week I felt they were going to be selected on that Sunday.  Every reporter locally and nationally felt that way.  The number of wins you have,  as proven, dont get you a ticket to the dance.

[cornfed24-7]

3 minutes ago, coughunter said:

I guess we just disagree cause there was no point in that final week I felt they were going to be selected on that Sunday.  Every reporter locally and nationally felt that way.  The number of wins you have,  as proven, dont get you a ticket to the dance.

I agree. The narrative had been cast long before the final week. I too at no point during the final week thought they were going to be selected. Every reporter did not feel that way, but they did report what was probably going happen based on the new metric that was being used for the first time that year. Again, revisionist history.

[cornfed24-7]

8 minutes ago, coughunter said:

I guess we just disagree cause there was no point in that final week I felt they were going to be selected on that Sunday.  Every reporter locally and nationally felt that way.  The number of wins you have,  as proven, dont get you a ticket to the dance.

Let me also add had the metric been the old metric we still would have probably only made it in by the skin of our teeth and quite possibly been in a play in game.

[throwback]

1 hour ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Shatel mentioned the NBA several times in his article yesterday. It's obvious Fred wants to be at that level having left ISU for the NBA in the past. If Fred is sick of this and takes an NBA offer for a Front Office position or Asst Coach position - wouldn't we be off the hook for a buyout? I'm sure we would be owed a buyout by the NBA team, but I'm sure Trev would waive it and send a thank you note instead. 

Yes, if he leaves on his own to take an NBA front office job, AD job at Butler, whatever, we're off the hook.

 

He'd be crazy to do that though. Make NU fire him, so he gets his buyout. That's why a mutual parting with a reduced lump-sum buyout payment makes the most sense for everyone. To achieve that, though, Trev may almost have to work backward, and make it seem like we can't afford to fire him so we're going to keep him and make him continue to suffer through with the rest of us. Then maybe he'd be more willing to take that reduced buyout, so he can go back to an NBA job. Hope Trev is a good poker player.

 

Of course, that's assuming Fred's ready to get out. It certainly has seemed that way for quite a while, but I don't know how stubborn he is down deep. Fred Hoiberg the player definitely wouldn't give up and would double down and grind through to do whatever it takes to win. The version of Fred Hoiberg in his first coaching job at ISU probably would've done the same.

 

I think this coaching version of Fred Hoiberg just doesn't have the desire to grind, hold players accountable, etc., but he may be delusional enough to think he can just snap his fingers and flip the script and get back to his ISU level of success. 

 

[uneblinstu]

The central Florida and Kansas losses were killer for that team. Miles knew it at the time, too. Flip those two games and the whole story changes