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South Carolina and Oregon

throwback

By throwback
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throwback

throwback

Posted
Posted

We have quite a few other schools listed as topics, so I thought I'd follow suit. :D

 

These two making the Final Four shows that it can be done at places without tradition, so I think they have some relevance to NU. 

 

Both schools had the right AD hiring the right coach and giving him the time to make it work. Looks like 5-6 years at both places to really get it rolling. 

 

The other thing that seems to be the same for both programs is hiring a coach who had long-term success previously at programs with big fan expectations.

 

Dana obviously turned cu from a dumpster fire into a program that was appealing to the Big East, had 11 straight 20-win seasons. And Oregon didn't let one subpar year at cu scare them off. Plus, his work was better than he's given credit for at K-State.

 

Martin did a lot of great things at K-State. It's not easy to hire guys like that away from their current jobs, but both Oregon and S Carolina did it, so that's where having a great AD with some foresight enters the picture.

 

Kind of interesting that both of them are on their 2nd Power Conference school. And neither Altman or Martin has Final Four experience at a previous school. Martin had one Sweet 16 appearance at K-State, Altman had never had one till getting to Oregon. So neither coach had slam-dunk credentials, but their new ADs saw something.

 

Just lots of similarities, although Dana doesn't quite match Martin's crazy eyes. (Not sure who can for that matter.)

 

This isn't meant to say anything one way or the other about NU & Coach Miles, I still like to think he can get it done here. Obviously a huge year coming up for him and the program. Certainly, South Carolina/Martin & Oregon/Altman both showed more progress by years 4 & 5 than NU has under Coach Miles. Hopefully 2017-18 is the year where things turn the corner. 

 

But I just thought it was interesting to see two schools with very little basketball tradition both make the Final Four in the same season, following a somewhat similar hiring process to find the right coach. Hopefully we have the right guy in house now, but if not, hopefully we have the right AD with the right foresight in place. I guess it's just encouraging to see some new blood get to the Final Four. There's always hope. 

cipsucks

cipsucks

Posted
Posted
51 minutes ago, throwback said:

 

Both schools had the right AD hiring the right coach and giving him the time to make it work. Looks like 5-6 years at both places to really get it rolling. 

 

 

Here's my dilemma, and what I think might be the curse on Nebraska Basketball; who's the right AD?  I love and trust T.O., one of the greatest coaches of all time, but his three coaching hires as athletic director have been less than impressive.  Did he get the Miles hire right?  I guess we'll find out this next season.

 

Our current A.D.?  No one frickin' trusts him.  Until he cleans house in the basketball administrative department, I question his decision making, thus questioning his ability to hire a great coach.

 

But hey, Nebraska did beat Kansas and Wilt Chamberlain!

busticket

busticket

Posted
Posted

All good points so far.  I have to agree with Cip, until we get an AD who is strong at identifying coaches, this problem will continue.  SE is still unknown at best.  Riley needs to come through for him; women's hoops has had a rough start. Rasmussen at CU has done better than most of our AD's.  I hope Eichorst can get it done, because if he fails we will be waiting for the next AD to hire the next coach, and at this point my patience is wearing a little thin.  It has been tough being an NU fanatic.....

KZRider

KZRider

Posted
Posted

Both of these teams are, to me, painful to watch succeed. Not because I mind them having success but because the refs let them get away with playing thugball while other teams have to play basketball. SC plays like they have a HC who used to be a bouncer at a bar. On one occasion Dozier threw a Duke player into the second ring of people parked out of bounds under the basket and no foul was called. Oregon, while not QUITE as thuggish as SC is in the same mold. When Brooks pushed a Kansas player defending him to the floor -- unlike Mr Brooks' famous flop -- it was called a foul but why it was not called a flagrant foul is beyond me. Both teams remind me of the "Bad Boys" Detroit Pistons. Very successful teams I hated to watch.

 

I am not saying players can't be tough minded and physical but they ought to still have to play the game within the rules. I guess if you want to follow the model of these two teams, recruit tallish street thugs and hope the refs let them get away with on court violence.

 

 

Silverbacked1

Silverbacked1

Posted
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, KZRider said:

Both of these teams are, to me, painful to watch succeed. Not because I mind them having success but because the refs let them get away with playing thugball while other teams have to play basketball. SC plays like they have a HC who used to be a bouncer at a bar. On one occasion Dozier threw a Duke player into the second ring of people parked out of bounds under the basket and no foul was called. Oregon, while not QUITE as thuggish as SC is in the same mold. When Brooks pushed a Kansas player defending him to the floor -- unlike Mr Brooks' famous flop -- it was called a foul but why it was not called a flagrant foul is beyond me. Both teams remind me of the "Bad Boys" Detroit Pistons. Very successful teams I hated to watch.

 

I am not saying players can't be tough minded and physical but they ought to still have to play the game within the rules. I guess if you want to follow the model of these two teams, recruit tallish street thugs and hope the refs let them get away with on court violence.

 

 

 

Yep I thought the last 6 minutes of the KU/OU game was unwatchable.  KU first guycrosshalf court with the ball throw up a three.  OU run around watse time then with one second hope Brooks can do something.  And it all came down to a badly missed shot and two KU guys not bring able to grab it.

 

Also agree with the grab and hold.  Reminds me of the NHL a few years ago when everybody grabbed guys at center ice so they couldn't go forward.

 

All it is all who has the best athletes that are the best any more.  Guys who are fundamentally sound just aren't around much.  

 

Oh well time for me to change.

Edited by Silverbacked1
The Polish Rifle

The Polish Rifle

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, KZRider said:

Both of these teams are, to me, painful to watch succeed. Not because I mind them having success but because the refs let them get away with playing thugball while other teams have to play basketball. SC plays like they have a HC who used to be a bouncer at a bar. On one occasion Dozier threw a Duke player into the second ring of people parked out of bounds under the basket and no foul was called. Oregon, while not QUITE as thuggish as SC is in the same mold. When Brooks pushed a Kansas player defending him to the floor -- unlike Mr Brooks' famous flop -- it was called a foul but why it was not called a flagrant foul is beyond me. Both teams remind me of the "Bad Boys" Detroit Pistons. Very successful teams I hated to watch.

 

I am not saying players can't be tough minded and physical but they ought to still have to play the game within the rules. I guess if you want to follow the model of these two teams, recruit tallish street thugs and hope the refs let them get away with on court violence.

 

 

kansasflop.0.gif

 

Please tell me you don't think this should be a flagrant on Brooks. 

Silverbacked1

Silverbacked1

Posted
Posted (edited)
39 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

Josh Jackson, 2017 Oscar winner for "Yo, Killa Flopingbird"

 

Looked like the women's basketball player he hit, Jackson that is.

 

And yes I just said that.  Tried of the women beaters in the world,  one game... okay walkaway....:angry:

Edited by Silverbacked1
Blindcheck

Blindcheck

Posted
Posted

I don't mind guys that Flop....in fact i like it as guys are trying to draw an offensive foul...however they are taking a calculated risk, since if the call is not made, they are giving up their position which can lead to an easy basket.

 

As for Physical play, If your teams can adjust to how they are calling fouls and you can abandon the physical play in those games, you will be a very tough team to beat.

 

I do like watching the defense of South Carolina...they aren't sitting back and waiting for the offense to come to them, they get out and harass the opposing offense...which can be very frustrating for offenses to face.

Navin R. Johnson

Navin R. Johnson

Posted
Posted

Did anyone hear Frank Martin's post game talk with the press?  I have always thought Martin was kind of shady and a bit of an ass, but a young reporter from SI kids complimented his defense and asked him if it was more important to teach attitude on defense or a team system (paraphrasing here) I thought Martin was going to light him up and after a pause he told him that was best question a reporter has ever asked him (and then said attitude was more important) I thought it was a cool moment for the kid and a little bit funny knock on the other media people.  Kind of changed my opinion of Martin and I think he has really matured as a coach.

throwback

throwback

Posted
  • Author
Posted
23 hours ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

Did anyone hear Frank Martin's post game talk with the press?  I have always thought Martin was kind of shady and a bit of an ass, but a young reporter from SI kids complimented his defense and asked him if it was more important to teach attitude on defense or a team system (paraphrasing here) I thought Martin was going to light him up and after a pause he told him that was best question a reporter has ever asked him (and then said attitude was more important) I thought it was a cool moment for the kid and a little bit funny knock on the other media people.  Kind of changed my opinion of Martin and I think he has really matured as a coach.

I'd agree - when he was at K-State, I always thought he was going to end his career a'la Woody Hayes at some point. Seemed completely unhinged.

 

He definitely seems to have mellowed a bit at S Carolina. It's been interesting to hear him speak after a few of these NCAA games. It hasn't been the tone or subject matter of what I would expect having watched him up close at KSU.

 

He did have an incident a couple of years in at S Carolina where he was suspended a few games. Maybe that gave him a bit of a different perspective. 

 

Either way, what he has done at that school is really amazing. 

 

For me, it's also a lot easier to respect him/listen to what he has to say when NU isn't playing his teams twice per year. :P 

 

How pissed are KSU fans going to be if two coaches they've essentially run off end up playing for it all Monday? Plus KSU-ers have to hate Roy Williams. They just may not tune in at all Saturday or Monday.

atskooc

atskooc

Posted
Posted
On 3/27/2017 at 8:27 AM, Navin R. Johnson said:

Did anyone hear Frank Martin's post game talk with the press?  I have always thought Martin was kind of shady and a bit of an ass, but a young reporter from SI kids complimented his defense and asked him if it was more important to teach attitude on defense or a team system (paraphrasing here) I thought Martin was going to light him up and after a pause he told him that was best question a reporter has ever asked him (and then said attitude was more important) I thought it was a cool moment for the kid and a little bit funny knock on the other media people.  Kind of changed my opinion of Martin and I think he has really matured as a coach.

Not that it really matters, but I don't think he said it was the best question he'd ever been asked; I believe he said it was a great question and one he'd never been asked before.

 

Either way, it was a great moment. 

AuroranHusker

AuroranHusker

Posted
Posted
15 hours ago, throwback said:

I'd agree - when he was at K-State, I always thought he was going to end his career a'la Woody Hayes at some point. Seemed completely unhinged.

 

He definitely seems to have mellowed a bit at S Carolina. It's been interesting to hear him speak after a few of these NCAA games. It hasn't been the tone or subject matter of what I would expect having watched him up close at KSU.

 

He did have an incident a couple of years in at S Carolina where he was suspended a few games. Maybe that gave him a bit of a different perspective. 

 

Either way, what he has done at that school is really amazing. 

 

For me, it's also a lot easier to respect him/listen to what he has to say when NU isn't playing his teams twice per year. :P 

 

How pissed are KSU fans going to be if two coaches they've essentially run off end up playing for it all Monday? Plus KSU-ers have to hate Roy Williams. They just may not tune in at all Saturday or Monday.

 

And, last year, Lon Kruger was in the Final Four. That's 3 ex-K-St head coaches in the Final Four in the past 2 years. And Huggy Bear went there as well seven years ago.

Cazzie22

Cazzie22

Posted
Posted

It is refreshing to see some new blood in the Final Four.  West Coast BB has had a difficult time overcoming the tyranny of TV scheduling which impacts recruiting.  Oregon is attractive because of Phil Knight's largess to the school and Altman has proven he can coach elite recruits.  I am pulling for an Oregon-Gonzaga final.  UNC will eventually have to pay for the academic fraud and I like Roy Williams.

 

South Carolina appeared to me to be the weakest #7 seed.  I figured the Dukies had a Cakewalk to the finals.  SC has impressed with their defense, Sindarious Thornwell and is the hot and confident team which makes them a danger.  Looking forward to the games.

royalfan

royalfan

Posted
Posted
On 3/28/2017 at 10:31 PM, swmckewon said:

Osborne's hiring of Erstad has been fine to this point. IMO. 

 

TO waited 2 years too long to let go of his predecessor, however.

 

 

 

If you like not recruiting any speed or power on offense and overrecruiting "grinder" type guys then he is killing it.  

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