OT (Kinda?): NSAA, Class A/B Conferences, OPS, etc...

[basketballjones]

Just wanted to get some discussion started and hear some thoughts from all of you regarding Class A and B Boys basketball in Nebraska, specifically conference alignment, AAU Coaches involvement, Transferring/Recruitment, Omaha Public School's failures (keep it to athletics, if you can, although they're related).

 

It's kind of the wild wild west right now, and I feel like some significant changes need to be made to get back to High School Sports being High School Sports, community based, etc... I have some other thoughts, but thought I'd open up discussion to everyone else to see where it goes or if anyone has any interesting thoughts or ideas. 

[Navin R. Johnson]

I hate to say it, but I think we are starting to see the end of high school athletics all together.  It will soon be all club ball, like Europe.  The top kids will start to leave first to form travel teams and high school will look more and more like intramural sports and then they will be gone all together.  (which some administrators will support) Sports like basketball and volleyball will probably go first.  The sad part is that people will miss the high school and community connection and the fans in the stands and so on.

[basketballjones]

9 minutes ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

I hate to say it, but I think we are starting to see the end of high school athletics all together.  It will soon be all club ball, like Europe.  The top kids will start to leave first to form travel teams and high school will look more and more like intramural sports and then they will be gone all together.  (which some administrators will support) Sports like basketball and volleyball will probably go first.  The sad part is that people will miss the high school and community connection and the fans in the stands and so on.

I just don't think that is going to happen around here for a long time. Sports are still a major, major (and well supported) part of our School culture. 

This will happen in urban environments in larger cities - but I don't see it happening in the midwest, suburban areas. 

[cornfed24-7]

I can't really comment on the sports situation in Nebraska. One, my oldest boy is just under 3 and the other boy will make his debut in the next week or two. Two, I moved out of the state a little over a decade ago.

What I do want to add kinda pertains to @Navin R. Johnson comment. I sure hope it doesn't go that way. I grew up in Crete and sports was an integral part of my youth. Always planned on gently nudging my children toward sports. But I'll tell you what, I am really turned off by the way youth sports go out here (San Diego). We were the last in my group of friends to have children so we've had an outside view of their kids in sports. I can tell you I don't like the view. 

[basketballjones]

1 hour ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I can't really comment on the sports situation in Nebraska. One, my oldest boy is just under 3 and the other boy will make his debut in the next week or two.

Congrats on #2 on the way!

[Huskerpapa]

I guess I understand that all extra-curricular activities are fading away in certain urban environments.   Funding seems to be at the core of the problem.  AAU and similar type programs then become a necessary evil.  

 

But my issue has always been that AAU programs have always been about me, me, me; while high school programs tend to be about team, school and community.  So I continue to hope and pray that high school ball will always exist in Nebraska.

[basketballjones]

I don't think we have any reason to worry about Nebraska HS sports or most midwestern places losing high school sports - especially at the Class B to C2 range in this state. There is so much money in those communities, and a town like "Crete" is effectively a private school. You have to have the money, job, house, ability to pay property taxes to live in those communities. 

Where we, and other midwest type areas, will eventually lose public school sports that move towards clubs will be in the dense urban areas (OPS), and the very small schools (d1-d2 type of towns that just disappear or consolidate). 

[Silverbacked1]

Okay my $.02 worth. First I think and hope that smaller schools will keep the team/community alive much longer than the larger schools.

 

We know it has happened for years. When Northeast went on it’s four titles in 4 years most if not all of those boys didn’t come close to living in LNE district.

 

I think the thing that is going to kill high school football is a player is going to be horribly hurt or killed and the pay out will make it impossible for school’s to get insurance to cover it.

 

But the funniest thing I think was when my oldest son was a senior and playing soccer at LSW.  That is the year that one of the Omaha/Millard schools varsity was a team that had been a spring travel team for the three years before and possibly could have been 4 times state champions because they were that good. However I remember reading an article about how this was going to be their last year together so they wanted to win a state title. Some guy wrote on-line “Yeah it would be fun sitting around at your 50th class reunion and saying remember when we finished 5th in that league with those teams from KC and Chicago”

[MichHusker]

Can't speak on Nebraska specifically since I've only been here a year, but coaching in general at the high school level has to get better. Too many coaches have no idea what they are doing or operating their program at a level that will never develop their players. Holding the ball, no ball pressure, zero offseason development all lead kids to prioritize AAU. Rules need to be lightened up for high school programs as well. Coming from a successful program in Michigan you can bet your ass we broke a rule a two when it came toward off season skill work

[cipsucks]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

Where we, and other midwest type areas, will eventually lose public school sports that move towards clubs will be in the dense urban areas (OPS), and the very small schools (d1-d2 type of towns that just disappear or consolidate). 

 

D towns have been told they need to disappear for the last 40 years. Many have consolidated, more will happen in the next ten years. The remaining ones will not go down without a fight.

 

 

 

[Navin R. Johnson]

4 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Just wanted to get some discussion started and hear some thoughts from all of you regarding Class A and B Boys basketball in Nebraska, specifically conference alignment, AAU Coaches involvement, Transferring/Recruitment, Omaha Public School's failures (keep it to athletics, if you can, although they're related).

 

It's kind of the wild wild west right now, and I feel like some significant changes need to be made to get back to High School Sports being High School Sports, community based, etc... I have some other thoughts, but thought I'd open up discussion to everyone else to see where it goes or if anyone has any interesting thoughts or ideas. 

 

What do you mean by conference alignment?

 

[Cazzie22]

Class B has always been an issue in Nebraska due to enrollment disparity from the biggest to the smallest.  Class A is moving towards all Metro and Lincoln teams which are loathe to travel to North Platte.

 

My biggest concern is the dominance of Parochial Schools in the lower classes.  It’s an unfair situation because attendance zones are very broad compared to their public counterparts and they don’t deal with serving all types of students.

[basketballjones]

1 hour ago, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

What do you mean by conference alignment?

 

There’s some talk of breaking up the 20 team metro conference. Lots of other teams moving around preparing to be moved up (Ashland). 

[Navin R. Johnson]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

There’s some talk of breaking up the 20 team metro conference. Lots of other teams moving around preparing to be moved up (Ashland). 

 

Interesting, I have not heard that.

[hskr4life]

1 hour ago, Cazzie22 said:

Class B has always been an issue in Nebraska due to enrollment disparity from the biggest to the smallest.  Class A is moving towards all Metro and Lincoln teams which are loathe to travel to North Platte.

 

My biggest concern is the dominance of Parochial Schools in the lower classes.  It’s an unfair situation because attendance zones are very broad compared to their public counterparts and they don’t deal with serving all types of students.

I believe it’s maybe Oklahoma… but any school that wins a state title like 2 times in a 3 year period or something has to automatically move up a class for the following 4 years.  Might solve some of the parochial issues.

[B-town hoopsfan]

Class D for football and class C and D for basketball you basically have to be a co/op or a religious school to compete for a championship these days.  Hard to find enough serious players and parents in most small towns not to mention the money aspect of it all. 

[Handy Johnson]

Let’s give a “shout out” to Chester Nebraska or C-H-B Chester/Hubble/Byron where SIX Man Football was invented…! 

[tcp]

2 hours ago, Cazzie22 said:

Class B has always been an issue in Nebraska due to enrollment disparity from the biggest to the smallest.  Class A is moving towards all Metro and Lincoln teams which are loathe to travel to North Platte.

 

My biggest concern is the dominance of Parochial Schools in the lower classes.  It’s an unfair situation because attendance zones are very broad compared to their public counterparts and they don’t deal with serving all types of students.

 

this is part of a broader problem in education which is the selective degradation of the *idea* of public education. obviously it will affect sports as well. we're trending backwards to a time where education itself was the province of the well off and everyone else can teach their kids how to start in coal mines at the age of 7. the transformation of high school sports to a miniature version of free agency is only the harbinger of more to come if it's not stopped soon. i honestly never thought i'd live to see this sort of revanchism in my lifetime. what's happened in high school sports has been the proverbial canary in the, well, coalmine. 

[Huskerpapa]

4 hours ago, Cazzie22 said:

Class B has always been an issue in Nebraska due to enrollment disparity from the biggest to the smallest.  Class A is moving towards all Metro and Lincoln teams which are loathe to travel to North Platte.

 

My biggest concern is the dominance of Parochial Schools in the lower classes.  It’s an unfair situation because attendance zones are very broad compared to their public counterparts and they don’t deal with serving all types of students.

Cazzie, I'm not certain I buy that argument today vs 20 years ago.  Many of the smaller public schools have consolidated and many of those schools draw from a broader range than the parochial schools. 

I would agree that 20 years ago that issue was often present.  But, even then, if they drew a significant number of students from afar, they would move up a class or two.

[jayschool]

10 hours ago, Cazzie22 said:

Class B has always been an issue in Nebraska due to enrollment disparity from the biggest to the smallest.  Class A is moving towards all Metro and Lincoln teams which are loathe to travel to North Platte.

 

My biggest concern is the dominance of Parochial Schools in the lower classes.  It’s an unfair situation because attendance zones are very broad compared to their public counterparts and they don’t deal with serving all types of students.

Maryland has three statewide organizations for our high school athletics and 6.1 million population:

• The Maryland Public Secondary Schools Athletic Association has more than 200 member schools over four classes in basketball.
• Two organization serve the private/parochial schools:
  • The Maryland Interscholastic Athletic Association is for boys private school athletics (lots of all-male schools). They have three "conferences" for the 30 member schools and state champions are named in each conference.
  • The Interscholastic Athletic Association of Maryland is for girls private school athletics (lots of all-female schools). The basketball championship format is the same as the MIAA's.

[HB]

10 hours ago, tcp said:

 

this is part of a broader problem in education which is the selective degradation of the *idea* of public education. obviously it will affect sports as well. we're trending backwards to a time where education itself was the province of the well off and everyone else can teach their kids how to start in coal mines at the age of 7. the transformation of high school sports to a miniature version of free agency is only the harbinger of more to come if it's not stopped soon. i honestly never thought i'd live to see this sort of revanchism in my lifetime. what's happened in high school sports has been the proverbial canary in the, well, coalmine. 

Damn, that’s some fancy stuff right there.  Have no idea what you said, but it seems impressive.  

[basketballjones]

16 hours ago, tcp said:

 

this is part of a broader problem in education which is the selective degradation of the *idea* of public education. obviously it will affect sports as well. we're trending backwards to a time where education itself was the province of the well off and everyone else can teach their kids how to start in coal mines at the age of 7. the transformation of high school sports to a miniature version of free agency is only the harbinger of more to come if it's not stopped soon. i honestly never thought i'd live to see this sort of revanchism in my lifetime. what's happened in high school sports has been the proverbial canary in the, well, coalmine. 

Well said, happening in other areas also. 

Edited April 22, 2023 by basketballjones

[Cazzie22]

15 hours ago, Huskerpapa said:

Cazzie, I'm not certain I buy that argument today vs 20 years ago.  Many of the smaller public schools have consolidated and many of those schools draw from a broader range than the parochial schools. 

I would agree that 20 years ago that issue was often present.  But, even then, if they drew a significant number of students from afar, they would move up a class or two.

The parochial schools seem to stay in the same class.  Falls City Sacred Heart stays D-2 yet draws all over SE Nebraska.  I celebrate every championship by Public Schools and Western Nebraska schools.  How can Fremont Bergan be D-2?  How does Skutt stay in B? 

[basketballjones]

37 minutes ago, Cazzie22 said:

The parochial schools seem to stay in the same class.  Falls City Sacred Heart stays D-2 yet draws all over SE Nebraska.  I celebrate every championship by Public Schools and Western Nebraska schools.  How can Fremont Bergan be D-2?  How does Skutt stay in B? 

Ashland and Wahoo should also be B.

[roscoe]

1 hour ago, Cazzie22 said:

The parochial schools seem to stay in the same class.  Falls City Sacred Heart stays D-2 yet draws all over SE Nebraska.  I celebrate every championship by Public Schools and Western Nebraska schools.  How can Fremont Bergan be D-2?  How does Skutt stay in B? 

A multiplier for private/parochial schools was discussed a few years ago but never gained traction. They also have advantage of controlling/limiting their enrollment and not having to count special needs students.