Hot Seat

[Huskerpapa]

13 hours ago, coughunter said:

Come on.  Let that go.  He hit his ceiling.  Easy to say now based on the current situation.  No one thought this 3 years ago.

I respectfully disagree.  I didn't agree with the way administration handled the last couple years and thought Tim deserved better.

Now, that said, I was ECSTATIC and pumped with the hiring of Fred and thought, finally, husker basketball has made it to the big time! But, that literally makes where we now sit even worse.  Expectations were driven to a significantly higher level and results are horribly worse.

Just an aside, I was one of the heartless and soulless jerks who chanted Moe must go, dig up Joe. I was very happy with Danny but knew it was time when he courted the Rutgers job, thought little of Collier and was glad he took off. Liked Doc's  coaching and personality, and was saddened by his termination.

[BannedAccount]

11 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

I respectfully disagree.  I didn't agree with the way administration handled the last couple years and thought Tim deserved better.

Now, that said, I was ECSTATIC and pumped with the hiring of Fred and thought, finally, husker basketball has made it to the big time! But, that literally makes where we now sit even worse.  Expectations were driven to a significantly higher level and results are horribly worse.

Just an aside, I was one of the heartless and soulless jerks who chanted Moe must go, dig up Joe. I was very happy with Danny but knew it was time when he courted the Rutgers job, thought little of Collier and was glad he took off. Liked Doc's  coaching and personality, and was saddened by his termination.

I agree to a point about the admin but dude had 7 years here and finished in the bottom 5 of those years.  If Tims personality was like Freds I'd find it hard to believe people would say the same. 

[Huskerpapa]

54 minutes ago, coughunter said:

I agree to a point about the admin but dude had 7 years here and finished in the bottom 5 of those years.  If Tims personality was like Freds I'd find it hard to believe people would say the same. 

I don't disagree per se...I was simply addressing your comment that nobody thought this three years ago.  There was support for Tim when he was ousted.   Dare I say there was more support for Tim then there is for Fred right now. 

[BannedAccount]

1 minute ago, Huskerpapa said:

I don't disagree per se...I was simply addressing your comment that nobody thought this three years ago.  There was support for Tim when he was ousted.   Dare I say there was more support for Tim then there is for Fred right now. 

Of course there is, thats cause this team under Fred is the worst in history.  The  previous guy will be brought up although there issomeone better out there then both of these coaches, as was with Barry and Doc

[NUdiehard]

 

Miles is currently winless (0-10) in the Mountain West Conference.  And has a 36 point home loss to CSU (how ironic), a 25 point loss to UNLV, a 30 point home loss to Fresno St., a 20 point road loss to Fresno St., multiple other 16+ point losses.  

[NUdiehard]

The ultimate goal of this program should be to win a game in the NCAA tourney for the first time in its history and then try to put the program in a position to do it again (or even better).  The last 100 years or utter futility of this program is a sunk cost.  Nothing is going to change what has happened, including the last 3 years which have been the worst in history.  The only question is who/how to reach this goal. 

 

Some of you seem content to roll in another Doc Sadler level coach and have him squeeze every ounce out of his 2.5 star mighty mites and go 6-14 in conference every year and say "well, at least its better than Fred's first 3 years."  Well, if this is your goal, have at it, you will probably get your wish.  I've seen that movie every year for 40 years and am not interested in watching it again. 

 

Fred and Matt A have completely blown it on the recruiting trail the first 2 years, but this year's class shows some promise (Wilhelm and Wilcher are freshman), and next year's class looks like it should be by far the best yet, and they are all HS recruits, not transfers.  Fred also has almost a virtual lock on a top 100 2023 recruit in Parker Friedrichsen and has many other top level prospects still on the line such as Avery Brown, etc. 

 

So who has a better chance to get us to our first tourney win within the next 2-3 years?  A new coach who will be starting completely over and most likely lose much/all of the 2022 and 2023 recruits commits?  Or Fred who has proven he can win if he has the right players and appears to have made significant strides on the recruiting front starting with next year's class?  I roll with Fred.  And for me it's simple.  If these 2022 and 2023 recruits don't pan out, then okay, the decision is easy, fire him after his 5th year.  At least we will then know we gave him every opportunity to get his guys and he failed.  But if we fire him now, we will never know.  But if we fire him now, I think we can all pretty much know for sure that NU will not be winning a tourney game in the next 2-3 years because the new coach will be starting over from scratch and so the process starts over again.   

Edited February 6, 2022 by NUdiehard

[Chuck Taylor]

We'll also never know if Adolf Lewandowski could have won us a Big Six title if he hadn't been let go.

[HuskerFever]

2 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

We'll also never know if Adolf Lewandowski could have won us a Big Six title if he hadn't been let go.

 

 

Resurfacing this whole Adolf Lewandowski thing might be all my fault, but I (or WE) have learned so much about our basketball history this season.

[NUdiehard]

4 hours ago, demone said:

Completely agree - for me, it goes even further to the players on the court. There aren't many that I have any type of connection with like I've had in the past. Not everyone fits this description, but for the most part it does feel like a group of misfits and mercenaries out for themselves without regard for the program at all. I guess it's to be expected given the recruiting profile in use. There is simply nothing good about this program, top to bottom. Ctrl+Alt+Del is the only option at this point. As much as I hate the idea of paying people to go away, it needs to happen soon and I would be in favor of doing so before the end of the season.

 

I agree with a lot of this.  The last few years (including this year) has felt like a group of mercenaries.

 

But can we agree that Fred/Matt A appear to have started to change their recruiting philosophy.  Next year's (2022) class is 3 HS freshman and 1 sophomore juco player.  Now, Fred will probably take one or two transfers as well (as will virtually every team in the country), but the current core of his recruiting class is HS recruits.  This is a distinct change in philosophy and practice.  And these HS recruits appear to be a pretty solid group.  

 

So if Fred has recognized his errors in past recruiting, why not give him a chance to rectify those errors since he has shown he is willing to change his methods/strategy?

[NUdiehard]

8 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

We'll also never know if Adolf Lewandowski could have won us a Big Six title if he hadn't been let go.

 

Did Adolf ever go to 4 straight NCAA tourneys and a sweet 16 while coaching a power 5 school?  

[demone]

46 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

 

I agree with a lot of this.  The last few years (including this year) has felt like a group of mercenaries.

 

But can we agree that Fred/Matt A appear to have started to change their recruiting philosophy.  Next year's (2022) class is 3 HS freshman and 1 sophomore juco player.  Now, Fred will probably take one or two transfers as well (as will virtually every team in the country), but the current core of his recruiting class is HS recruits.  This is a distinct change in philosophy and practice.  And these HS recruits appear to be a pretty solid group.  

 

So if Fred has recognized his errors in past recruiting, why not give him a chance to rectify those errors since he has shown he is willing to change his methods/strategy?

 

I appreciate what you are saying. Ultimately, on the question of keep him or fire him after 3 years of recruiting misses, stubborn adherence to a failed scheme and losses piling up, I don’t trust him any longer. 
 

I did when he was hired based on his resume. I don’t anymore. Pretty simple for me. 
 

Now, if you want to hang and give him time to “change”, fine. Not sure why it would take 3 years for him to decide he needed to change but fair enough. My stance is the same - there’s a long way to go to earn my trust back - and I’m not holding my breath. 

[Chuck Taylor]

1 hour ago, NUdiehard said:

 

Did Adolf ever go to 4 straight NCAA tourneys and a sweet 16 while coaching a power 5 school?  

Well, you asked, so I looked up some more:

 

Quote

He served as the head football coach at the University of Nebraska–Lincoln from 1943 to 1944, compiling a record of 4–12.

It's like he was a combination of Frost and Hoiberg.

[Ron Mexico]

18 hours ago, coughunter said:

How Nebrasketball would that be after this garbage season?

I've said the same thing. Our first win of the season is in the 1st round of the BIG Tournament would be the most Nebrasketball thing ever.

[jimmykc]

Edited February 6, 2022 by jimmykc

[cipsucks]

He looks like Kevin Spacey. No wonder he coached young men.

[Ron Mexico]

8 hours ago, hugh42 said:

 

Not to nit pick, but 2 out of 7 isn't near half of the time and that 19 win season was with a 6-14 conference record, which put us in the bottom four of the B1G and is where his team's resided in every other season that we didn't finish in the top 4. If his teams would have finished in the middle of the pack a couple of those years, he probably would still be here. I thought Tim was a good hire at the time (I thought Doc and Collier were good hires at the time as well) but I also thought it was the right move to move on from him. Having said that and as others have already said, I never thought in my wildest dreams that we would be where we are today under Hoiberg. Absolutely unbelievable.

At the time Collier was every bit as much of home run hire as FH was. He built that team into what it is today. To be fair he did have some very good assistant coaches, however he was the one who hired them, and he was in charge. He was the HC there for 10yrs and 3 of his last 4yrs there he got them into the NCAA Tourney. He was never able to replicate that level of success at Nebraska. Of note we made the NIT 2 of his last 3 seasons. Would have been interesting to see if BC would have been fired his last season if he wouldn't have been offered the AD job at Butler.

I like Doc a lot, still do, but I didn't have much confidence in him being able to get us to the NCAA. He had only been a HC for 2yrs when we hired him away from UTEP. He like BC did make an appearance in the NCAA Tourney at their previous school. He had 1 season getting us to .500 in conference play, which is something BC was never able to accomplish and that's it. He has also had 2 very bad season,  neither of which are as bad as what we've seen with FH as coach. He was given 6 yrs. While at Southern Miss they improved every season. What he did there was even more remarkable considering they where coming off sanctions.He left there to be FH assistant at ISU.

Tim Miles, while not a splash hire had a pretty good resume. He worked his way up the hard way. He had been a head coach at 3 different schools before coming to Nebraska. Unlike our previous 2 coaches he got us above .500 twice, something our previous coaches where not able to do. He also did get us to the NCAA Tournament. He was a victim of some really bad luck during his last 2 seasons. Not getting an NCCA invite 2017/18 season was about as big of screw job as I've ever seen, and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise. We make the NCAA that season and TM is our coach for at least another 2-3 seasons. The loss of Isaac Copeland the following season was devastating. Of note we made the NIT his last 2 seasons. Unlike his 2 predecessors he was given 7 seasons rather than 6, however it was well deserved. He also had a better conference winning percentage than his predecessors.

Not much to say about FH that hasn't been already said.  We will finish dead last in the BIG again, currently he is .098 in conference and .244 overall. We haven't come close to winning 10 games in season, something that didn't happen with his 3 predecessors. I don't think anybody ever thought we would be where we are now. 

In hindsight, letting go of TM was a mistake. I don't think there is much debate on that.

 

One thing we have shown, as a fan base and university, is a lot of patience with our basketball coaches. This is a good thing. If we want any chance of hiring quality coaches in the future we have to be able to continue to show that we will give him time. This is why I'm torn with letting go of FH, buyout not withstanding. I want to give him 4 full seasons. I want to once again demonstrate to any potential coaching candidates that he will be given time to turn us around and get us to the NCAA Tournament. 

 

 

 

[hskr4life]

7 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

At the time Collier was every bit as much of home run hire as FH was. He built that team into what it is today. To be fair he did have some very good assistant coaches, however he was the one who hired them, and he was in charge. He was the HC there for 10yrs and 3 of his last 4yrs there he got them into the NCAA Tourney. He was never able to replicate that level of success at Nebraska. Of note we made the NIT 2 of his last 3 seasons. Would have been interesting to see if BC would have been fired his last season if he wouldn't have been offered the AD job at Butler.

I like Doc a lot, still do, but I didn't have much confidence in him being able to get us to the NCAA. He had only been a HC for 2yrs when we hired him away from UTEP. He like BC did make an appearance in the NCAA Tourney at their previous school. He had 1 season getting us to .500 in conference play, which is something BC was never able to accomplish and that's it. He has also had 2 very bad season,  neither of which are as bad as what we've seen with FH as coach. He was given 6 yrs. While at Southern Miss they improved every season. What he did there was even more remarkable considering they where coming off sanctions.He left there to be FH assistant at ISU.

Tim Miles, while not a splash hire had a pretty good resume. He worked his way up the hard way. He had been a head coach at 3 different schools before coming to Nebraska. Unlike our previous 2 coaches he got us above .500 twice, something our previous coaches where not able to do. He also did get us to the NCAA Tournament. He was a victim of some really bad luck during his last 2 seasons. Not getting an NCCA invite 2017/18 season was about as big of screw job as I've ever seen, and no one will ever be able to convince me otherwise. We make the NCAA that season and TM is our coach for at least another 2-3 seasons. The loss of Isaac Copeland the following season was devastating. Of note we made the NIT his last 2 seasons. Unlike his 2 predecessors he was given 7 seasons rather than 6, however it was well deserved. He also had a better conference winning percentage than his predecessors.

Not much to say about FH that hasn't been already said.  We will finish dead last in the BIG again, currently he is .098 in conference and .244 overall. We haven't come close to winning 10 games in season, something that didn't happen with his 3 predecessors. I don't think anybody ever thought we would be where we are now. 

In hindsight, letting go of TM was a mistake. I don't think there is much debate on that.

 

One thing we have shown, as a fan base and university, is a lot of patience with our basketball coaches. This is a good thing. If we want any chance of hiring quality coaches in the future we have to be able to continue to show that we will give him time. This is why I'm torn with letting go of FH, buyout not withstanding. I want to give him 4 full seasons. I want to once again demonstrate to any potential coaching candidates that he will be given time to turn us around and get us to the NCAA Tournament. 

 

 

 

I think the toughest thing with FH right now is that we don’t even look competitive and we should be.  We have the horses to at least compete.  With Tim, Doc and Barry— at least those teams played hard and had some sort of identity.  Yesterday was flat out embarrassing.

 

I’d be down for a 4th year no questions asked for Fred IF we at least looked somewhat competitive, competent, and like we’re improving.  The thing that has me at the tipping point right now are things outside of W’s and L’s.  Though 20 wins through 2 2/3 seasons doesn’t really move the needle much for me either.

[Ron Mexico]

8 hours ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Shatel mentioned the NBA several times in his article yesterday. It's obvious Fred wants to be at that level having left ISU for the NBA in the past. If Fred is sick of this and takes an NBA offer for a Front Office position or Asst Coach position - wouldn't we be off the hook for a buyout? I'm sure we would be owed a buyout by the NBA team, but I'm sure Trev would waive it and send a thank you note instead. 

Great question. We would only be on the hook for the difference. That's why a negotiated buyout is a real possibility.

Lets say FH is let go and is owed $18 mil over 5yrs and gets a job in the NBA with a contract of, for arguments sake, $10mil. we would only owe him $8mil. This is why FH will  either take a contract restructure or a negotiated buy out. The reality is that we will likely never have to pay him anywhere close to $18mil. In order for FH to collect the full $18 mil he would not be able to work again for the next 5yrs. That isn't going to happen.

 

We are going to find out very soon if FH is a competitor or was using us for a pay day. This decision will define his legacy. 

1. Refuse restructured contract

2. Refuse negotiated buyout

This could his lasting legacy as a coach.

1. Take a restructured contract.

He thinks he can turn this around and shows him to be a competitor.

2. Take a negotiated buyout.

This is a simple parting of ways.

[HB]

3 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

 

Miles is currently winless (0-10) in the Mountain West Conference.  And has a 36 point home loss to CSU (how ironic), a 25 point loss to UNLV, a 30 point home loss to Fresno St., a 20 point road loss to Fresno St., multiple other 16+ point losses.  

Check in with us in year 3.

[HuskerFever]

14 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

Great question. We would only be on the hook for the difference. That's why a negotiated buyout is a real possibility.

Lets say FH is let go and is owed $18 mil over 5yrs and gets a job in the NBA with a contract of, for arguments sake, $10mil. we would only owe him $8mil.

 

I don't think that's accurate...

 

https://journalstar.com/sports/huskers/mens-basketball/extension-hefty-buyout-part-of-hoiberg-contract-that-was-quietly-revised-in-2020/article_668a9258-cdd7-5fd8-acb9-009ecd1323f0.html

 

The language of Hoiberg's contract would also make it financially difficult for the coach to leave for another Division I job in the first five years of his deal.

 

If Hoiberg was to resign at Nebraska for another DI job, he would have owed Nebraska $11.5 million after Year 1, $10.25 million after Year 2, $8.75 million after Year 3 (this year), $7 million after Year 4, and $5.25 million after Year 5.

 

However, if Hoiberg were to resign for a basketball position (coaching or executive position) outside of NCAA DI (i.e. the NBA), he would owe Nebraska $2.5 million after Year 1, $2 million after Year 2, $1.5 million after Year 3, $500,000 after Year 4 and $250,000 after Year 5.

 

In either scenario, Hoiberg would not owe the school anything should he leave in the final two years of his deal.

[Ron Mexico]

3 hours ago, NUdiehard said:

 

Miles is currently winless (0-10) in the Mountain West Conference.  And has a 36 point home loss to CSU (how ironic), a 25 point loss to UNLV, a 30 point home loss to Fresno St., a 20 point road loss to Fresno St., multiple other 16+ point losses.  

It's his 1st season.

For reference here are the 4 previous seasons before Miles got there:

SEASON	W - Overall	L - Overall	W/L % - Overall	W - Conf	L - Conf	W/L % - Conf
2020-21	5	16	0.238	2	12	0.143
2019-20	7	24	0.226	3	15	0.167
2018-19	4	27	0.129	1	17	0.056
2017-18	4	26	0.133	1	17	0.056

 

[hal9000]

With the Regents looking at alcohol sales for UNL sporting events this week, the thought occurs to me that this might buy Trev some time with his Men's basketball HC decision.  If it is going to happen, the PBA is the best place to start since it is already set up for selling beer. 

 

So Trev may be looking at it thinking if he keeps Hoiberg we may have trouble selling tickets next year, but the sale of beer may offset that to some degree.  That way he can avoid the buyout problem, at least for another year.  

[demone]

5 minutes ago, hal9000 said:

With the Regents looking at alcohol sales for UNL sporting events this week, the thought occurs to me that this might buy Trev some time with his Men's basketball HC decision.  If it is going to happen, the PBA is the best place to start since it is already set up for selling beer. 

 

So Trev may be looking at it thinking if he keeps Hoiberg we may have trouble selling tickets next year, but the sale of beer may offset that to some degree.  That way he can avoid the buyout problem, at least for another year.  

 

Great point - I had not connected the dots on that one but it seems feasible.

[HuskerFever]

9 minutes ago, hal9000 said:

With the Regents looking at alcohol sales for UNL sporting events this week, the thought occurs to me that this might buy Trev some time with his Men's basketball HC decision.  If it is going to happen, the PBA is the best place to start since it is already set up for selling beer. 

 

So Trev may be looking at it thinking if he keeps Hoiberg we may have trouble selling tickets next year, but the sale of beer may offset that to some degree.  That way he can avoid the buyout problem, at least for another year.  

 

Cigarette tax built the Bob. Alcohol sales get rid of the Fred.

 

Seems feasible.

[uneblinstu]

I don’t think beer generates *that* much revenue…