uneblinstu's postgame chatter: vol 14; ed 6 - vs. Tennessee State

[millerhusker]

Wasn't able to watch the game last night, so watching it now. 

1st half:

-First 4 minutes were the best we've played all year. If Keon's minute allotment in the rotation is 8-12 minutes, I'm good with him getting those minutes at the start of each half. In the first 3 minutes, he forced two turnovers, had a rebound on a good block out and had a nice contest on a shot (I actually thought he tipped it but wasn't credited with a block). I felt like he set the tone defensively from the tip, the bench players just didn't keep it up. He's going to be a great 3 and D player eventually. 

- Bryce had a George Gervin finger roll. That was sweet.

- Agree with what someone said earlier. Derrick needs to give the same effort on the boards and defensively as he did last year. He's not doing that right now. But playing well offensively.

- The offense itself seems fine. We've gotten wide open threes within the offense from Keisei (2), Bryce (2-3), Keon (2), Wilhelm (1), CJ (2), Lat (several). Just missed almost all of them. 

- CJ's defense is poor, but I appreciate his effort blocking out. We need his shooting and he's the best on the team at moving without the ball right now.

- There are only two ball stoppers on the team at this point. Verge (it's just going to happen with him, but he's playing pretty darn good now) and Lat, who of all people should not be a ball stopper. The turnovers and missed wide open threes are bad enough. But when he catches and just holds the ball and jab steps for 8 seconds, it's frustrating and a possession killer. My old high school coach would not allow that from anyone, let alone a guy who's not a threat to create. 

 

2nd half:

-Another solid first 4 minutes defensively. Only gave up 3 points before the first sub came in. I like Keon. You don't have to worry about effort or dumb mistakes with him. He's shooting the ball with confidence and they'll start falling.

- Bryce and Verge playing very well. And EFFICIENT.

- Wilhelm and Ed both really bad in this one. Is Wilhelm not being coached? It's kinda embarrassing how confused he is after laying someone out and getting called for a foul. 

- A positive: Our guards are doing a much better job of finishing at the rim. Overall the team was 22/28 on 2FG's.

- Bryce, CJ, Verge and Walker played as well as you could ask them to, offensively. Tenn St. stayed in the game because almost everyone else played just poorly enough, and about 5-6 of their made threes were prayers they just threw up there that went in.

- People might not remember, but our three point shooting improved dramatically over the course of each of the past two seasons. Everything will look different if/when that happens. Free throws and 2P% have been substantially better this year. We're 71% on "close 2's" this year, compared to 55% and 54% in the previous two years. 73% from FT's compared to 64% and 61%. 

 

I feel like I'm the only one who still has hope for a fun year. To the people who think we're not running an offense or sharing the ball, we really are. Turn on a college basketball game any given night and you'll see stagnant offense. We're getting shots at the rim, free throw line and wide open threes. It's going to turn around. Maybe lower your W/L expectations. My preseason hope was that we'd go around .500 this year. I had no tourney expectations. We won 7 freaking games each of the last two years. 

Edited November 24, 2021 by millerhusker

[hhcmatt]

Was looking more into Keon Edwards minutes.  

One correction in this thread is that he's played the majority of his minutes at the wing, not at the 4. 

In the last 3 games he's only been on the court with Lat and Derrick.

 

https://hoop-explorer.com/LineupAnalyzer?baseQuery="Edwards%2C Keon" &filter=&gender=Men&maxRank=400&maxTableSize=50&minPoss=5&minRank=0&showGameInfo=true&sortBy=desc%3Aoff_poss&team=Nebraska&year=2021%2F22&

 

I know that Bryce and Keon play together but functionally speaking minutes without Trey break down like Bryce and Keon are in a platoon and Bryce gets the lionshare of minutes.

 

 

 

21 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

1st half:

-First 4 minutes were the best we've played all year. If Keon's minute allotment in the rotation is 8-12 minutes, I'm good with him getting those minutes at the start of each half. In the first 3 minutes, he forced two turnovers, had a rebound on a good block out and had a nice contest on a shot (I actually thought he tipped it but wasn't credited with a block). I felt like he set the tone defensively from the tip, the bench players just didn't keep it up. He's going to be a great 3 and D player eventually. 

 

What would our night have looked like if Wilcher had come in for Lat instead of Edwards at the first TV timeout?

 

[aphilso1]

17 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

What would our night have looked like if Wilcher had come in for Lat instead of Edwards at the first TV timeout?

 

 

I had the exact same question, and I'm hoping the coaches think the same thing before our next game.  With Lat struggling from 3 thus far, Keon seems to be the more valuable player.  Better defender, better rebounder (to my eye anyway...not sure if the stats back that up).  Both have had sticky hands and forced up bad shots from deep, so might as well give the extra minutes to the guy that does other things for the team.

[aphilso1]

41 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

- People might not remember, but our three point shooting improved dramatically over the course of each of the past two seasons. Everything will look different if/when that happens. Free throws and 2P% have been substantially better this year. We're 71% on "close 2's" this year, compared to 55% and 54% in the previous two years. 73% from FT's compared to 64% and 61%. 

 

 

Excellent point.

[basketballjones]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

I get the people giving Alonzo Verge props. Yeah, he's dishing dimes (mostly to Walker.) And he's getting to the rim with some success.

 

But everyone else just stands around and watches him dribble. When he's out of the game and, say, Webster comes in, they actually pass the ball to create open shots.

 

Remember everyone complaining last year about how the ball would stop in Teddy Allen's hands? Remember how people said Teddy would have fit better in Tim Miles' offense than in the Hoiberg offense? Remember @basketballjones saying that Teddy would never be a star player on a good team?

 

Verge can sometimes get to the rim 1-on-5. And he can often make acrobatic, circus shots at the  rim that go in. He's been fairly effective the last two games at dropping the ball off for Walker, who's been really good at taking advantage of it. But he CANNOT score enough to win the game by himself and he does a poor job of getting his teammates involved in the offense.

 

And then you talk about the almost indifference on defense.

 

I don't know. I'm not as high on Verge as some of y'all.

Well, ironically, I’m Team Verge. I don’t think the Teddy comparisons are fair. 

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

I get the people giving Alonzo Verge props. Yeah, he's dishing dimes (mostly to Walker.) And he's getting to the rim with some success.

 

But everyone else just stands around and watches him dribble. When he's out of the game and, say, Webster comes in, they actually pass the ball to create open shots.

 

Remember everyone complaining last year about how the ball would stop in Teddy Allen's hands? Remember how people said Teddy would have fit better in Tim Miles' offense than in the Hoiberg offense? Remember @basketballjones saying that Teddy would never be a star player on a good team?

 

Verge can sometimes get to the rim 1-on-5. And he can often make acrobatic, circus shots at the  rim that go in. He's been fairly effective the last two games at dropping the ball off for Walker, who's been really good at taking advantage of it. But he CANNOT score enough to win the game by himself and he does a poor job of getting his teammates involved in the offense.

 

And then you talk about the almost indifference on defense.

 

I don't know. I'm not as high on Verge as some of y'all.

 

Verge is like any polarizing issue: there is a lot of middle ground to be found in between he's our most important player and he's responsible for holding back the team.

 

As far as Teddy goes the very important distinction to be made between these two ball dominant players is that Teddy was hunting for scoring opportunities and Verge is hunting for passing opportunities.   

[brfrad]

17 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Verge is like any polarizing issue: there is a lot of middle ground to be found in between he's our most important player and he's responsible for holding back the team.

 

As far as Teddy goes the very important distinction to be made between these two ball dominant players is that Teddy was hunting for scoring opportunities and Verge is hunting for passing opportunities.   

He's pretty much like AM2.  He does enough good things to keep us in games, and enough bad things to keep the other team in games.

[AuroranHusker]

7 minutes ago, brfrad said:

He's pretty much like AM2.  He does enough good things to keep us in games, and enough bad things to keep the other team in games.

 

The primary difference is that Verge doesn't have to run for his life because his O-Line is as leaky as a sieve! 

 

 

[Busch Light]

I thought for sure we were going to be pretty salty after the Colorado game. I’ve seen nothing to suggest that since then. Eventually some of these shots are going to start falling, we will get some issues corrected, and I truly believe this will be Fred’s best team at Nebraska. There’s too much talent (compared to his other teams here) not to be. But we still aren’t going to be good and I don’t see us making any post-season again this year. 
 

I realize that Nebraska basketball, in theory, should have less expectations and require more patience than football. At least that used to be the case. It appears that Trev doesn’t have any real expectations at all by extending the monstrosity that is Nebraska football for another year. If he’s willing to let a 15-28 football coach have another losing season, I can only expect Hoiberg’s seat not to be even remotely warm. Not that I want to run Fred, but he’s 18-47, he has to start winning games here. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect at least an NIT bid next year. 

[basketballjones]

1 hour ago, brfrad said:

He's pretty much like AM2.  He does enough good things to keep us in games, and enough bad things to keep the other team in games.

I don’t think Verge is the one even remotely doing things to keep other teams in games. He turns it over just like everyone else, takes bad shots like everyone else, and is super lax on D from time to time like everyone else. 
 

If anything, besides Bryce and Walker, he’s the only one also consistently bringing super positive things. Everyone else does the bad stuff and either brings no good stuff or is inconsistent doing so. 

[aphilso1]

2 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

The primary difference is that Verge doesn't have to run for his life because his O-Line is as leaky as a sieve! 

 

 

 

I'm glad someone made this comment, otherwise I never would have guessed that "AM2" meant Adrian Martinez.  For someone that doesn't really follow the football team all that closely, there are dozens of "AM" names that come to mind first.  I was just trying to figure out how the "2" aspect fit into the equation, but thankfully you solved the riddle for me!

[cornfed24-7]

4 hours ago, millerhusker said:

 

I feel like I'm the only one who still has hope for a fun year.

I can't speak for everyone, but for me I have had to drastically tamper down my expectations.

I had hopes the talent would be more team ready and thats just not the case.

And its not that I don't think they can't get there.

Its just that by the time they do the odds are the team has already dug itself into a hole that we can't get out of to make the tournament. 

Got to get through the stages a grief before I can have fun again.

 

[Art Vandalay]

5 hours ago, millerhusker said:

Wasn't able to watch the game last night, so watching it now. 

1st half:

-First 4 minutes were the best we've played all year. If Keon's minute allotment in the rotation is 8-12 minutes, I'm good with him getting those minutes at the start of each half. In the first 3 minutes, he forced two turnovers, had a rebound on a good block out and had a nice contest on a shot (I actually thought he tipped it but wasn't credited with a block). I felt like he set the tone defensively from the tip, the bench players just didn't keep it up. He's going to be a great 3 and D player eventually. 

- Bryce had a George Gervin finger roll. That was sweet.

- Agree with what someone said earlier. Derrick needs to give the same effort on the boards and defensively as he did last year. He's not doing that right now. But playing well offensively.

- The offense itself seems fine. We've gotten wide open threes within the offense from Keisei (2), Bryce (2-3), Keon (2), Wilhelm (1), CJ (2), Lat (several). Just missed almost all of them. 

- CJ's defense is poor, but I appreciate his effort blocking out. We need his shooting and he's the best on the team at moving without the ball right now.

- There are only two ball stoppers on the team at this point. Verge (it's just going to happen with him, but he's playing pretty darn good now) and Lat, who of all people should not be a ball stopper. The turnovers and missed wide open threes are bad enough. But when he catches and just holds the ball and jab steps for 8 seconds, it's frustrating and a possession killer. My old high school coach would not allow that from anyone, let alone a guy who's not a threat to create. 

 

2nd half:

-Another solid first 4 minutes defensively. Only gave up 3 points before the first sub came in. I like Keon. You don't have to worry about effort or dumb mistakes with him. He's shooting the ball with confidence and they'll start falling.

- Bryce and Verge playing very well. And EFFICIENT.

- Wilhelm and Ed both really bad in this one. Is Wilhelm not being coached? It's kinda embarrassing how confused he is after laying someone out and getting called for a foul. 

- A positive: Our guards are doing a much better job of finishing at the rim. Overall the team was 22/28 on 2FG's.

- Bryce, CJ, Verge and Walker played as well as you could ask them to, offensively. Tenn St. stayed in the game because almost everyone else played just poorly enough, and about 5-6 of their made threes were prayers they just threw up there that went in.

- People might not remember, but our three point shooting improved dramatically over the course of each of the past two seasons. Everything will look different if/when that happens. Free throws and 2P% have been substantially better this year. We're 71% on "close 2's" this year, compared to 55% and 54% in the previous two years. 73% from FT's compared to 64% and 61%. 

 

I feel like I'm the only one who still has hope for a fun year. To the people who think we're not running an offense or sharing the ball, we really are. Turn on a college basketball game any given night and you'll see stagnant offense. We're getting shots at the rim, free throw line and wide open threes. It's going to turn around. Maybe lower your W/L expectations. My preseason hope was that we'd go around .500 this year. I had no tourney expectations. We won 7 freaking games each of the last two years. 

Your not the only one, I’m am with you. Definitely disappointed so far, especially Creighton game. We do not look like a well coached team right now. I also agree on Edwards, play him more instead of Lat (hurts my soul watching him handle the ball, shoot, pass, or cut is all he should do)

 

I don’t think we will shoot it as good as we all thought but I’m confident it will improve. Weather we can get close to our potential lies on Defense IMO. Lack of intensity and communication is terrible. Leads to all the open shots and easy offensive rebounds. 
 

One last positive is we pulled ahead and closed out a close game. Not something we have excelled at so even though it was a bad team it helps.

 

 

[Cazzie22]

6 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

I get the people giving Alonzo Verge props. Yeah, he's dishing dimes (mostly to Walker.) And he's getting to the rim with some success.

 

But everyone else just stands around and watches him dribble. When he's out of the game and, say, Webster comes in, they actually pass the ball to create open shots.

 

Remember everyone complaining last year about how the ball would stop in Teddy Allen's hands? Remember how people said Teddy would have fit better in Tim Miles' offense than in the Hoiberg offense? Remember @basketballjones saying that Teddy would never be a star player on a good team?

 

Verge can sometimes get to the rim 1-on-5. And he can often make acrobatic, circus shots at the  rim that go in. He's been fairly effective the last two games at dropping the ball off for Walker, who's been really good at taking advantage of it. But he CANNOT score enough to win the game by himself and he does a poor job of getting his teammates involved in the offense.

 

And then you talk about the almost indifference on defense.

 

I don't know. I'm not as high on Verge as some of y'all.

I don’t disagree with your position on Verge, but I do feel we needed his play to beat TSU last night.  Don’t understand why Kobe isn’t playing more.

[GoBigRed]

I’ll keep posting this until it’s no longer true. At 26.6% from 3 it’s the worst Nebraska shooting team in the 21st Century. Only two teams (2002-03 and 2014-15) finished the season under 30%. They went 11-19 and 13-18. So you can see where we are headed. 
 

It really is mind-boggling to wrap your head around. Is Fred over coaching mechanics? It’s not just a thing this year either. All of his Husker teams have been pathetic. We used to chalk it up to lack of recruited shooters but that can’t be an excuse anymore. Are they recruiting mental head cases who can’t handle performing on this stage? Lat’s been dreadful since he got here despite that report where Fred said he hit like 88 out of 100 in a drill (unguarded of course). Keisei has grossly underperformed even his most conservative expectations (21%…puke). Even Lakes is a guy they talked about lighting it up in practices and was automatic at lower levels…only 30.8% in his Husker career. 
 

I just don’t get it. Perhaps we are just destined to suck forever. On paper we have the most highly rated players in our program we’ve ever had, with a handful of guys who were labeled sharp shooters. And yet we don’t play as a team, we don’t play smart, and we are fundamentally piss poor. 

[Coaches kid]

Watched the game on DVR yesterday. What stuck out to me is that we just don't seem to be connected on defense. I get what we're attempting to do with the constant switching, but we clearly don't communicate well and guys don't seem to play with urgency and passion on that end. They are not locked in.  There are also certain guys who just don't do a good job of staying in front of the ball off of the dribble. We need to have people buy in on defensive end to have any chance of winning games in conference play. 

 

I've seen enough on offense to at least feel a bit positive that we can become dangerous when guys share the ball and hit shots. I agree with the sentiments about Lat. He can't handle the ball and he even has trouble catching it. He's not a rim defender and he's not an aggressive rebounder. Play Edwards and Breidenbach. Granted, Wil had a bad game against TSU, but I'm not as down on him as some seem to be. Might as well get him minutes and let him learn on the fly. I sense Edwards will mature into a nice player once he gains some confidence and experience. 

[brfrad]

I'm a defensive first guy.  However, if we can't figure out how to shoot from 3 in games, this is going to be a long season.

[Huskerpapa]

Methinks that the offense will be fixed if/when we start knocking down the numerous open look 3's that are present.  Once those go down, the lane opens up and poof...our offense will be great. I can still dream!

[Cowboy Kermit]

On the first watch for me and the subsequent rewatch, this game was not as much of a dumpster fire as some are making it out to be. Following the Creighton game I was definitely most concerned about offensive scheme and rhythm, closely followed by rebounding, and what would become of the Trey McGowens injury. After watching this game through twice you can see the positive signs offensively, especially from Verge in the second half. The two biggest worries for this team at the moment are shooting and making. the 3 and defense as a whole. They're getting good looks from 3, they just simply are not falling. No idea what the hell is going on defensively, that needs to be addressed ASAP.