Norm's Conference Recognition Watch List

[AuroranHusker]

That's the beauty of this year's team, we have a bunch of dudes who care more about the team's purpose ("us" is what they say after a game in their team huddle) than any particular personal accolade, but I do think if Keisei goes off in the next 3 games that he could garner attention as a first-teamer although not all that likely it happens. GBR

 

[tcp]

Right now, I think Keisei gets 2d team honors and Mast and Gary looking at honorable mention. 

 

Thats not only fair, it's awesome. We don't depend on a star player to win. That''s ideal in sports. 

[Faux Mike Peltz]

I think this will be a year that the coaches team looks a bit different than the writers. The coaches know the nightmare of KT and matchup problems Rienk poses and the do all that Gary brings….

[millerhusker]

I don’t know how to make this make sense. But I would vote Keisei ahead of anyone else on the team for all-conference accolades. Yet, I would vote Mast our most VALUABLE player. And yet again, I would vote Gary our most IMPORTANT player. Pretty cool season of basketball we are experiencing. 
 

Over the course of the whole season, I’d say Brice has been our most improved player. Even though his numbers have dropped just a bit since non-con. His progression and role acceptance on both ends has been as vital to our current success as anything else. 

Edited February 28 by millerhusker

[Navin R. Johnson]

9 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

I don’t know how to make this make sense. But I would vote Keisei ahead of anyone else on the team for all-conference accolades. Yet, I would vote Mast our most VALUABLE player. And yet again, I would vote Gary our most IMPORTANT player. Pretty cool season of basketball we are experiencing. 
 

Over the course of the whole season, I’d say Brice has been our most improved player. Even though his numbers have dropped just a bit since non-con. His progression and role acceptance on both ends has been as vital to our current success as anything else. 

 

We kind of sacrificed Brice a little to get Lawrence going.

[tcp]

and don't forget CJs 6th man running....he's got to be squarely in that mix

 

[No Place Like the Vault]

32 minutes ago, tcp said:

and don't forget CJs 6th man running....he's got to be squarely in that mix

 

He would have to get pretty hot the last 3 games.  He hasn't scored more than 5 points in a game in our last 6 games.

[tcp]

1 hour ago, No Place Like the Vault said:

He would have to get pretty hot the last 3 games.  He hasn't scored more than 5 points in a game in our last 6 games.

 

I''m going to blame radio for that misperception. but thanks for the correction. 

[Norm Peterson]

Bump.

 

We're coming down to the wire on this. We're a team where the whole is greater than the sum of the individual parts.  And that means our guys getting post-season recognition might not be commensurate with our conference finish.

 

We're a collection of a bunch of guys who can hurt you but no individual superstars.

 

I still think the branding of Keisei is going to pay some dividends for him in terms of post-season recognition, though.

[hhcmatt]

Last season Derrick Walker made the 2nd team for the coaches and honorable mention for the media...I'd assume that in some regard that was due to the fact Derrick's numbers weren't as gaudy as others but you sure as heck had to gameplan for him.  Coaches never voted Hunter Dickenson to the first team in the B1G despite how gaudy his numbers were...though he made the media team his last year.  Probably the biggest takeaway isn't that one poll is better than the other....it's that there are two polls for the B1G post season and they can be very different.

 

This last game at Michigan could be fairly important considering how poor that team is defensively and how lumped together all our players are.  Really is an argument to make for Mast, Gary, Keisei, and even Brice. Winning and getting that 3rd-4th seed certainly helps as well given that conference standing does matter to some voters.

 

It's cool if some guys get recognition like this but in some ways it's almost cooler if we have a team as successful as we do with only 3rd team B1G players.

[OurDecay]

Completely agree.  I think it’s a badge of honor if we were to finish top-4 in this league without any serious threats for all-league players.

 

interestingly, all-Big Ten teams should be inversely related to COTY in our case.  If we finish 3rd in this damn conference without any marquee players then Hoiberg has to be lock for COTY (he might be anyway)

[hhcmatt]

Keisei scoring 30 points in the last game doesn't hurt his chances at recognition 

[hskr4life]

54 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

Keisei scoring 30 points in the last game doesn't hurt his chances at recognition 

I think there’s just too many good players in this conference with eye popping stats that’ll get 1st team.  Keisei getting at least 2nd team should be a lock though.

[Ron Mexico]

On 2/6/2024 at 1:41 PM, Norm Peterson said:

 

That all may or may not be true, but it's irrelevant to the point I was making. He's only been accused. He's not been convicted. We don't presume guilt. We do the opposite. Until he's been convicted, a mere accusation isn't sufficient, IMO, to knock him out of contention for post-season recognition. I suppose if there was video or some other unassailable, unimpeachable evidence, I might be willing to change my mind on this point. But an accusation alone isn't going to do it.

Matt Ariaza would agree as the mere accusation has destroyed him even though the accusers story completely fell apart and the lawsuit against him was dismissed. Remember that the criminal charges where moving forward and eventually dismissed because Ariaza was able to prove he wasn't involved. He was picked up by the Chiefs earlier this year, however his reputation will forever be tainted. He was very lucky....

Unlike Brian Banks who had no rock solid alibi and was ultimately found guilty until more than a decade later the accuser was secretly recorded recanting her story to Banks during a private meeting that she schedule after reaching out to Banks on Facebook. His life was completely ruined because he couldn't prove his innocence. The accuser received a $2.6mil settlement from the school district where the crime allegedly took place.

I feel awful for the women who are truly victims of this crime and never get their day in court, however I'm reminded of this quote (aka Blackstone's formulation) from jurist William Blackstone:

"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer."

[Norm Peterson]

11 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

Matt Ariaza would agree as the mere accusation has destroyed him even though the accusers story completely fell apart and the lawsuit against him was dismissed. Remember that the criminal charges where moving forward and eventually dismissed because Ariaza was able to prove he wasn't involved. He was picked up by the Chiefs earlier this year, however his reputation will forever be tainted. He was very lucky....

Unlike Brian Banks who had no rock solid alibi and was ultimately found guilty until more than a decade later the accuser was secretly recorded recanting her story to Banks during a private meeting that she schedule after reaching out to Banks on Facebook. His life was completely ruined because he couldn't prove his innocence. The accuser received a $2.6mil settlement from the school district where the crime allegedly took place.

I feel awful for the women who are truly victims of this crime and never get their day in court, however I'm reminded of this quote (aka Blackstone's formulation) from jurist William Blackstone:

"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer."

 

Yeah, and I dug into the facts a bit after this conversation started and it looks like the accusation is sketchy at best.

 

She claims the assault occurred in a public area of the bar that would have been visible to the CCTV cameras. But the police reviewed the camera footage and didn't see any video of her and him together at any point before he left.

 

That tidbit didn't come out, though, until he sued the university to be reinstated. Which a judge then ordered.

 

I'm guessing these charges aren't going to go anywhere.

[cornfed24-7]

14 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

"Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer."

Not to venture too far into this and derail this thread again, but I want to highlight what an absolutely awful quote this is. Let's follow it out logically.

This quote then means one would see it better that 10 people were murdered and their murders walk free than an innocent person suffer.

Ten people raped and their rapist walk free than an innocent person suffer.

Ten children molested and their molesters walk free than an innocent person suffer Etc.

I'm positive every person in this board agrees an innocent person wrongly accused us a tragedy, but this quote doesn't serve that point well at all. 

[Ron Mexico]

6 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

Not to venture too far into this and derail this thread again, but I want to highlight what an absolutely awful quote this is. Let's follow it out logically.

This quote then means one would see it better that 10 people were murdered and their murders walk free than an innocent person suffer.

Ten people raped and their rapist walk free than an innocent person suffer.

Ten children molested and their molesters walk free than an innocent person suffer Etc.

I'm positive every person in this board agrees an innocent person wrongly accused us a tragedy, but this quote doesn't serve that point well at all. 

I don't think you realize how influential Blackstone was as a legal scholar, and to our current system of justice and out constitution. To further clarify his statement. The goal is not to allow the guilty to go free. However, it ensures that the innocent are not unfairly jailed or punished. His formulation has been so influential that it is a legal right today. When accused of a crime, the legal system presumes you are innocent. Only when you are proven guilty can the law sentence you for your crimes.

 

[cornfed24-7]

4 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

I don't think you realize how influential Blackstone was as a legal scholar, and to our current system of justice and out constitution. To further clarify his statement. The goal is not to allow the guilty to go free. However, it ensures that the innocent are not unfairly jailed or punished. His formulation has been so influential that it is a legal right today. When accused of a crime, the legal system presumes you are innocent. Only when you are proven guilty can the law sentence you for your crimes.

 

I don't disagree with that, but I stand by that's an awful quote. To further elaborate that quote does not capture, at all, with what you responded. Which, again, why it's awful

Edited March 11 by cornfed24-7

[Ron Mexico]

1 minute ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I don't disagree with that, but I stand by that's an awful quote. 

It's a great quote as it unequivocally shows how we as a society view the importance of innocent until proved guilty.

If we take the opposite of Blackstone's quote, which is what you are saying to it's logical conclusion then that would mean it is better that 10 innocent people should be found guilty rather than one 1 guilty person go free. Blackstone's statement was made for a reason and without nuance. Many have tried and failed to add nuance to Blackstone's formulation. Either you believe in innocence until proven guilty or you don't and if that means a potentially guilty person has not been proven guilty goes free then so be it as the alternative is considered a far worse outcome in a free society.

 

[cornfed24-7]

14 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

It's a great quote as it unequivocally shows how we as a society view the importance of innocent until proved guilty.

If we take the opposite of Blackstone's quote, which is what you are saying to it's logical conclusion then that would mean it is better that 10 innocent people should be found guilty rather than one 1 guilty person go free. Blackstone's statement was made for a reason and without nuance. Many have tried and failed to add nuance to Blackstone's formulation. Either you believe in innocence until proven guilty or you don't and if that means a potentially guilty person has not been proven guilty goes free then so be it as the alternative is considered a far worse outcome in a free society.

 

Thats not what the quote you posted advocates for at all. Both that one and the inverse are stupid. Your original quote wieghts the suffering of one over the suffering of 10. Dumb. Feel free to believe that's not what the quote implys. It has nothing todo with the ”presumption" of innocense until proven guilty "beyond a reasonable doubt"

.

Edited March 11 by cornfed24-7

[hhcmatt]

 

[hskr4life]

 

[Faux Mike Peltz]

Katz leaving Tominaga off even the third team is wild 

[cornfed24-7]

14 minutes ago, Faux Mike Peltz said:

Katz leaving Tominaga off even the third team is wild 

 

[hskr4life]

51 minutes ago, Faux Mike Peltz said:

Katz leaving Tominaga off even the third team is wild 

Could be a preview of how everyone else might see it though.  Katz is a big Keisei fan too.