uneblinstu's postgame chatter: vol 15, prologue: @ Colorado

[Art Vandalay]

55 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

 

 

Have it on pretty good authority that HCFH won't make it to Christmas. I'm just going to leave it at that.

 

That might end up being true but it would be a HUGE surprise to someone pretty close to Trev. If he is fired it’ll be after the season.

[Ron Mexico]

2 minutes ago, Art Vandalay said:

That might end up being true but it would be a HUGE surprise to someone pretty close to Trev. If he is fired it’ll be after the season.

None of this is written in stone, although my source told me that SF was on extremely thin ice this season and that TA would pull the trigger sooner rather than later. I asked him if that meant he would fire him before the Oct 7 contract kicked in if things went south and he said yes.

 

I think most here know this is not going to be a good season. I can't think of any scenario outside of some miracle in which he isn't fired by the end of the season. Once we hire a new football coach, the FH clock will start ticking.

[Ron Mexico]

20 hours ago, hskr4life said:

9.  Colorado should be pretty good, so I’m happy with the fight.  We didn’t roll over and die and very well could have.  This team doesn’t have a stud.  Honestly there’s good and bad throughout the top 10-12 players.

Not sure how much weight should be given to pre-season prediction, but most have Colorado finishing anywhere from 6th - 9th in the PAC 12.

[49r]

KenPom has 'em 6th (and tied standings-wise for 5th) in the Pac 12, a substantially weaker conference than the Big Ten.  Their ranking would be good for 12th in the Big Ten:

 

2023 Standings

Team	Overall	Conf	Proj	AdjEM		AdjO		AdjD		AdjT		Conf SOS		Next Game
Arizona	0-0	0-0	15-5	+23.19	10	112.6	6	89.5	20	75.1	9	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 247 Nicholls St. 9:30 PM	(W, 89-63, 99%)
UCLA	0-0	0-0	15-5	+23.12	11	112.4	7	89.3	18	69.4	330	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 275 Sacramento St. 11:30 PM	(W, 79-55, 99%)
Oregon	0-0	0-0	13-7	+18.36	29	110.5	18	92.1	57	71.4	194	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 356 Florida A&M 10:00 PM	(W, 84-53, 100%)
USC	0-0	0-0	13-7	+17.25	36	107.7	41	90.5	31	71.1	228	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 257 Florida Gulf Coast 9:30 PM	(W, 83-62, 97%)
Stanford	0-0	0-0	11-9	+13.68	58	105.4	66	91.7	46	71.2	215	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 251 Pacific 2:00 PM	(W, 79-61, 95%)
Colorado	0-0	0-0	11-9	+12.93	61	104.1	85	91.1	37	71.5	178	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 203 UC Riverside 8:30 PM	(W, 76-61, 91%)
Washington St.	0-0	0-0	9-11	+11.56	71	103.1	102	91.6	42	71.0	231	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 178 Texas St. 7:30 PM	(W, 73-60, 87%)
Utah	0-0	0-0	9-11	+11.41	72	105.8	64	94.4	83	71.2	220	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 339 LIU 11:00 PM	(W, 83-61, 98%)
Arizona St.	0-0	0-0	9-11	+11.19	75	102.9	108	91.8	48	72.6	85	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 200 Tarleton St. 7:00 PM	(W, 74-60, 89%)
Washington	0-0	0-0	7-13	+5.75	113	100.7	144	94.9	95	73.1	57	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 233 Weber St. 11:00 PM	(W, 77-66, 84%)
California	0-0	0-0	5-15	+1.63	146	97.3	207	95.6	98	69.1	340	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 184 UC Davis 11:00 PM	(W, 68-62, 71%)
Oregon St.	0-0	0-0	3-17	-4.85	228	98.3	188	103.2	267	70.5	259	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 153 Tulsa 12:00 AM	(L, 72-71, 47%)
Projected conference records may not sum to .500 due to rounding.

[Cazzie22]

Explain to me what benefit would come from firing Hoiberg during the season? It’s a little early for all the panic being displayed.  I don‘t expect a winning season but I do expect to see hustle, teamwork and some fight. 

[Fullbacksympathy]

 

[millerhusker]

16 minutes ago, 49r said:

KenPom has 'em 6th (and tied standings-wise for 5th) in the Pac 12, a substantially weaker conference than the Big Ten.  Their ranking would be good for 12th in the Big Ten:

 

2023 Standings

Team	Overall	Conf	Proj	AdjEM		AdjO		AdjD		AdjT		Conf SOS		Next Game
Arizona	0-0	0-0	15-5	+23.19	10	112.6	6	89.5	20	75.1	9	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 247 Nicholls St. 9:30 PM	(W, 89-63, 99%)
UCLA	0-0	0-0	15-5	+23.12	11	112.4	7	89.3	18	69.4	330	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 275 Sacramento St. 11:30 PM	(W, 79-55, 99%)
Oregon	0-0	0-0	13-7	+18.36	29	110.5	18	92.1	57	71.4	194	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 356 Florida A&M 10:00 PM	(W, 84-53, 100%)
USC	0-0	0-0	13-7	+17.25	36	107.7	41	90.5	31	71.1	228	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 257 Florida Gulf Coast 9:30 PM	(W, 83-62, 97%)
Stanford	0-0	0-0	11-9	+13.68	58	105.4	66	91.7	46	71.2	215	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 251 Pacific 2:00 PM	(W, 79-61, 95%)
Colorado	0-0	0-0	11-9	+12.93	61	104.1	85	91.1	37	71.5	178	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 203 UC Riverside 8:30 PM	(W, 76-61, 91%)
Washington St.	0-0	0-0	9-11	+11.56	71	103.1	102	91.6	42	71.0	231	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 178 Texas St. 7:30 PM	(W, 73-60, 87%)
Utah	0-0	0-0	9-11	+11.41	72	105.8	64	94.4	83	71.2	220	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 339 LIU 11:00 PM	(W, 83-61, 98%)
Arizona St.	0-0	0-0	9-11	+11.19	75	102.9	108	91.8	48	72.6	85	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 200 Tarleton St. 7:00 PM	(W, 74-60, 89%)
Washington	0-0	0-0	7-13	+5.75	113	100.7	144	94.9	95	73.1	57	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 233 Weber St. 11:00 PM	(W, 77-66, 84%)
California	0-0	0-0	5-15	+1.63	146	97.3	207	95.6	98	69.1	340	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 184 UC Davis 11:00 PM	(W, 68-62, 71%)
Oregon St.	0-0	0-0	3-17	-4.85	228	98.3	188	103.2	267	70.5	259	+0.00	1	Mon, vs 153 Tulsa 12:00 AM	(L, 72-71, 47%)
Projected conference records may not sum to .500 due to rounding.

I do like that Colorado team, though. I think they'll be solid. Apparently they handled Wyoming in their scrimmage a week ago. Wyoming is in all the preseason bracketologies as an at-large team. 

[Huskerpapa]

Good lord...stop the fire the coach chatter at least until the first official loss.  Come on.

[49r]

8 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

I do like that Colorado team, though. I think they'll be solid. Apparently they handled Wyoming in their scrimmage a week ago. Wyoming is in all the preseason bracketologies as an at-large team. 

 

Yeah it's hard to know where they'll end up, and Tad always seems to get 'em coached up so it wouldn't be a surprise to see them finish higher, but that's where KenPom has them right now.

[Fullbacksympathy]

After watching the game...

 

We sorely lack an identity, but one could easily be carved.

 

Here's who earned starting spots after two games, IMO:

 

Griesel, Bando, Dawson, Gary, Walker. 

 

Want an identity?  How about a team who won't get outworked?  Maybe they won't win, but they won't get outworked.  I don't even think it's close.  I really, really like all five of these players.  They play hard.  They are athletic.  They could be excellent defensively.  They have enough skill to learn to score at the rim.  

 

I am tired of seeing Wilcher and Tominaga not be able to guard opposing guards.  They give up so many more points than they score.  They are not D1 defenders.  Sorry.  Lloyd looked much better than both of them defensively.  

 

Kojenets is severely underrated.  He isn't a fluke out there.  He's a Euro player with legit offensive skills and great effort.  The offense was night and day with him in the pick and roll.  He's the son of a pro and it shows with his knowledge of spacing and skill inside.  He'd be first off the bench for me at the 5.  

 

Wilcher, Tominaga, WB, Keita can battle it out for the rest of the minutes.  I think Wilcher has to play the 4 and WB has to play the 5.  I'll include Lloyd here too but I'm pretty optimistic about him.  He has great size and some good instincts.  

 

 

 

 

[Ron Mexico]

16 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

Good lord...stop the fire the coach chatter at least until the first official loss.  Come on.

Not for or against, just providing info.

[mkroll12345]

3 hours ago, Huskerpapa said:

Good lord...stop the fire the coach chatter at least until the first official loss.  Come on.

at least wait until we lose to Maine or Omaha like civilized people

[hhcmatt]

Amazing 180 degree reactions from last year's exhibition game.

 

The two biggest takeaways for me were

- Is Derrick Walker going to miss regular season games?

- Oleg looks like a good use of a scholarship

[Chuck Taylor]

I rewatched the game this morning (I know), trying to take the emotion out of it. Things that struck me of offense:

1. Our "offense" is really just a bunch of action that does nothing until the ball ends up in the hands of someone who decides to do it on his own. We only had 6 assists. I realize we ran "vanilla" offense, but everybody does in exhibitions. Our vanilla offense didn't generate anything, just one on one play.

2. Our shooting is mostly a result of poor shot selection. Wilcher and Tominaga can shoot, but they force shots when the team shows a mindset of "better shoot because I won't see the ball again."

3. Gary and Bandoumel suffer from the chronic P5 transfer to Nebraska syndrome. "If I transfer to NU, then I'll be the man." Palmer and Petteway forced shots but made it work. However, they were young players when they came here. Gary and Bando played a lot at their former schools, and they're not budding stars.

4. This is stuff we've seen over and over since Fred got here. Either his system doesn't work any more, or he doesn't have the talent to make it work, or he's not a good enough coach to enforce the discipline needed to make it work.

Defense and rebounding:

1. As mentioned by others, we guard poorly on the perimeter, almost as if we're funneling people toward our rim protector. Except we don't have one.

2. We should be solid inside this year. Walker is good, and Oleg has really improved. Didn't see much from Keita but he might be ok too.

3. As for our improved "effort" on defense this year, it would improve more if we had our hands up. That's the first thing I notice on defense in terms of effort: Are the hands active. Ours aren't.

 

Too early to give up, but I didn't really see the things we supposedly improved on during the offseason. The 6 assists and poor shot selection don't say much about a "team first" philosophy.

 

 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Chuck Taylor
Clarification

[hhcmatt]

11 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

Is Derrick Walker going to miss regular season games?

 

Hearing that Walker might be out at least the first 7 games though absolutely no idea why. Hoiberg declined again to get into specifics on Sports Nightly so I'm left to wonder if it's non-injury related as it's pretty common to name a body part that keeps a player out.

[aphilso1]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Hearing that Walker might be out at least the first 7 games though absolutely no idea why. Hoiberg declined again to get into specifics on Sports Nightly so I'm left to wonder if it's non-injury related as it's pretty common to name a body part that keeps a player out.

 

The vagueness appears intentional.  Makes me wonder if DW has some kind of surgery coming up that is unrelated to basketball.  Inquiring minds want to know, but I also realize that its his life and his privacy, so we may never know.  And that is OK.

[Navin R. Johnson]

3 hours ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I rewatched the game this morning (I know), trying to take the emotion out of it. Things that struck me of offense:

1. Our "offense" is really just a bunch of action that does nothing until the ball ends up in the hands of someone who decides to do it on his own. We only had 6 assists. I realize we ran "vanilla" offense, but everybody does in exhibitions. Our vanilla offense didn't generate anything, just one on one play.

2. Our shooting is mostly a result of poor shot selection. Wilcher and Tominaga can shoot, but they force shots when the team shows a mindset of "better shoot because I won't see the ball again."

3. Gary and Bandoumel suffer from the chronic P5 transfer to Nebraska syndrome. "If I transfer to NU, then I'll be the man." Palmer and Petteway forced shots but made it work. However, they were young players when they came here. Gary and Bando played a lot at their former schools, and they're not budding stars.

4. This is stuff we've seen over and over since Fred got here. Either his system doesn't work any more, or he doesn't have the talent to make it work, or he's not a good enough coach to enforce the discipline needed to make it work.

Defense and rebounding:

1. As mentioned by others, we guard poorly on the perimeter, almost as if we're funneling people toward our rim protector. Except we don't have one.

2. We should be solid inside this year. Walker is good, and Oleg has really improved. Didn't see much from Keita but he might be ok too.

3. As for our improved "effort" on defense this year, it would improve more if we had our hands up. That's the first thing I notice on defense in terms of effort: Are the hands active. Ours aren't.

 

Too early to give up, but I didn't really see the things we supposedly improved on during the offseason. The 6 assists and poor shot selection don't say much about a "team first" philosophy.

 

 

 

I think things will be different with Walker in there.  There were times last year when we played thru him at the high post as he is a very good passer.  I would hope we will see more sets for our shooters as well.  Now if Walker is out a while....

[Breslin Petteway]

All things considered I thought it went okay.

 

Defense

Looks pretty solid, the guys are competing and putting out multiple efforts. You feel guys like Emanuel, Denim, Gary, Sam, Walker (fingers crossed). They disrupt stuff and our scheme is unique which could throw some teams off. Guys compete on the glass as well. Wilhelm and Keisei try but feel like pretty big negatives on this end.

 

Offense

Yikes. Turnovers, killed us. Mark Jackson type backdowns from Griesel were our best offense. Someone mentioned earlier there is a desperate need for someone who can get into the lane and create. We can't get around anyone off the dribble which makes it tough for guys like Wilcher, Wilhelm, and Keisei who can shoot but not create their own. Fred seems to think we can fix our offense through set plays, but I doubt it. 

 

Before Sunday I thought Walker and the defense would will us to 6-7 Big Ten wins. I still feel that way if he is okay. Hoping he just is freaked out about altitude.....anything long term and we are in deep trouble. If this was Fred's first roster it would be damn fun, but this is year 4 and while this team might be fun to root its time for results and hopefully the conference is down enough for us to get them 

[Norm Peterson]

23 hours ago, Cazzie22 said:

Explain to me what benefit would come from firing Hoiberg during the season? It’s a little early for all the panic being displayed.  I don‘t expect a winning season but I do expect to see hustle, teamwork and some fight. 

 

Very fair question. I'll try to give you an answer that rises to the level of the question.

 

Watching a lame duck coach, who's sure to be fired, flounder as the season moves along is PAINFUL. It's painful to the fans; it's painful to the players; it's painful, I'm sure, to the staff. It would be better to put things out of our collective misery by firing a coach who's gonna get canned anyway and replace him with an interim than to watch half the players give up and the other half try too hard to make the hero plays that would somehow save the season or save the coach.

 

An interim coach sets a sort of reset button. Instead of agonizing about the diagnosis, you have the diagnosis and can move forward. It allows the players to play for something new. We might not be able to salvage a winning season, maybe not save the coach's job, but we can salvage some self-respect.  I think you see that with the football team. And a mid-season coaching change also allows you to get a jump on who the available coaching prospects will be and send out feelers to see who might or might not be interested so you can focus your search when the season concludes.

 

I'm not saying they will or won't fire Hoiberg. But if it becomes manifestly apparent that the end is nigh, and he's just marking time until the hammer drops, and the product on the floor becomes unbearable to watch because of the level of futility the players feel about the situation, then I'd say drop the hammer.

[jimmykc]

Probably an inopportune choice of weapons, Norm, although it may be because it is presently "top of mind". How about dropping an anvil?

[Cowboy Kermit]

8 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Hearing that Walker might be out at least the first 7 games though absolutely no idea why. Hoiberg declined again to get into specifics on Sports Nightly so I'm left to wonder if it's non-injury related as it's pretty common to name a body part that keeps a player out.

 

Hearing this as well. Non-basketball related, out until after Thanksgiving. Certainly less than ideal. 

[TourneyBound]

Pretty underwhelmed with Wilhelm’s play. I know he is coming off surgery but he needs to be ready to shoot when he gets ball. Him putting the ball on the floor or pump faking is not what we want. He had a couple chances to shoot it and passed

[Cazzie22]

5 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Very fair question. I'll try to give you an answer that rises to the level of the question.

 

Watching a lame duck coach, who's sure to be fired, flounder as the season moves along is PAINFUL. It's painful to the fans; it's painful to the players; it's painful, I'm sure, to the staff. It would be better to put things out of our collective misery by firing a coach who's gonna get canned anyway and replace him with an interim than to watch half the players give up and the other half try too hard to make the hero plays that would somehow save the season or save the coach.

 

An interim coach sets a sort of reset button. Instead of agonizing about the diagnosis, you have the diagnosis and can move forward. It allows the players to play for something new. We might not be able to salvage a winning season, maybe not save the coach's job, but we can salvage some self-respect.  I think you see that with the football team. And a mid-season coaching change also allows you to get a jump on who the available coaching prospects will be and send out feelers to see who might or might not be interested so you can focus your search when the season concludes.

 

I'm not saying they will or won't fire Hoiberg. But if it becomes manifestly apparent that the end is nigh, and he's just marking time until the hammer drops, and the product on the floor becomes unbearable to watch because of the level of futility the players feel about the situation, then I'd say drop the hammer.

I don’t disagree with your points but a search can be conducted with Hoiberg still in place.  I just don’t like calling for his job when this season hasn’t started. 

[HB]

3 hours ago, ConkintheCorner said:

Pretty underwhelmed with Wilhelm’s play. I know he is coming off surgery but he needs to be ready to shoot when he gets ball. Him putting the ball on the floor or pump faking is not what we want. He had a couple chances to shoot it and passed

Having seen him shoot, that’s understandable 

[huskerbill85]

I haven't gotten to watch much of the preseason yet so folks who have what do you think our chances are that we can hold most teams on our schedule to 60-65 points a game?