OT: Most overrated/underrated coaches..

[Fullbacksympathy]

My most overrated has always been Roy Williams.  I can't stand the guy.  I'm watching UNC this year, who still has decent talent--though less than recent years--and his coaching is atrocious.  They are 10-12 with only 3 conference wins.  I just can't help but remember all those KU teams with championship talent that fizzled out in the tourney under his system.  Fred would have Roy's current roster dancing.  I don't think it takes a coaching miracle to put 3-4 future NBA players in the final four.  He rode Dean Smith's coattails to can't-miss jobs.  

 

My most underrated would be Mick Cronin.  I love his style, the types of players he recruits, and what he built at Cincy.  I think he'll get things rolling at UCLA.  

 

Any others?  

[Chuck Taylor]

I agree on Cronin at Cincy, while skeptical about him getting the job done at UCLA. His style is strictly hard-nosed, physical defense with a barely functional offense. Not sure he's going to get buy-in from the West Coast kids, although he'll definitely get better talent than at CIncy. Also don't think the Pac 12 officials will allow the bullyball style he's used to. 

 

Gregg Marshall is a terrific coach, but is he underrated? Matt Painter might not get enough credit. Is "Coach Fran" underrated if everybody thinks he sucks but he still makes the tournament? 

 

As for overrated, I'd vote for Jim Boeheim. He used to be an elite recruiter but now they don't get the same caliber of kids and his coaching isn't enough to keep them among the elite any more. He wallpapers over their deficiencies by scheduling nothing but home games in noncon, then relies on the ACC schedule to get him Q1 wins to get in the tourney. Lot of respect for what he did to build Syracuse into a major power, but just seems like he's on cruise control now. 

[Cazzie22]

Scott Drew is underrated nationally.  He is not well liked by his colleagues but Baylor has been consistent during his tenure.  This year’s team has some excellent component parts.  

 

Chris Beard at Texas Tech is a great Coach.  Tech is offensively challenged this season but will be a tough out.  Tony Bennet is excellent.

 

Some coaches who get elite talent every year are overrated.  I would include a couple of the ACC powerhouse programs in that assessment.

[Nebrasketball1979]

Lots of good choices above.  I always thought Rick Barnes was vastly overrated at Texas for the supposed talent they had.  However, he built a good team in Tennessee last year and has done a good job with that program; although, they appear to have regressed a bit this year.

 

As far as underrated...this won't be popular but McDermott churns out quality team after quality team and he did a phenomenal job transitioning the team in Blue to the Big East.  But, maybe it's just the money guy that is underrated.

[Dean Smith]

1 hour ago, LK1 said:

My most overrated has always been Roy Williams.  I can't stand the guy.  I'm watching UNC this year, who still has decent talent--though less than recent years--and his coaching is atrocious.  They are 10-12 with only 3 conference wins.  I just can't help but remember all those KU teams with championship talent that fizzled out in the tourney under his system.  Fred would have Roy's current roster dancing.  I don't think it takes a coaching miracle to put 3-4 future NBA players in the final four.  He rode Dean Smith's coattails to can't-miss jobs.  

 

My most underrated would be Mick Cronin.  I love his style, the types of players he recruits, and what he built at Cincy.  I think he'll get things rolling at UCLA.  

 

Any others?  

Roy Williams has over 880 wins. Roy Williams has three national championships to his record. It was Roy Williams as an assistant at UNC for Dean Smith that created the "secondary fastbreak." Now who actually thought of something first is always debatable in basketball. Bring up who started the flex in South Dakota and Minnesota and you might see a fist fight break out. But it was at UNC that if became a thing and spread through basketball. Wooden made the primary fastbreak a good thing and Roy Williams revolutionized and gave us the current game of basketball heavy on transition and flow through early offense. The style of play Fred likes, the emphasis on the transition in today's game, all that has Roy's fingerprints all over it.  Roy is certainly not underrated. He gets a ton of recognition. But he isn't overrated either. When you take in account how much he has influenced the modern game you might say he is under appreciated.

[Vinny]

Overrated, Sean Miller. All that talent at Arizona and no final fours.

Underrated, I agree with the Mick Cronin pick, he won’t be if he gets UCLA rolling again.

[Handy Johnson]

All-time underrated: Rick Majerus

Overrated: Bill Self

[AuroranHusker]

Overrated, Kidney.

 

Underrated, anyone else.

 

[Fullbacksympathy]

6 hours ago, Dean Smith said:

Roy Williams has over 880 wins. Roy Williams has three national championships to his record. It was Roy Williams as an assistant at UNC for Dean Smith that created the "secondary fastbreak." Now who actually thought of something first is always debatable in basketball. Bring up who started the flex in South Dakota and Minnesota and you might see a fist fight break out. But it was at UNC that if became a thing and spread through basketball. Wooden made the primary fastbreak a good thing and Roy Williams revolutionized and gave us the current game of basketball heavy on transition and flow through early offense. The style of play Fred likes, the emphasis on the transition in today's game, all that has Roy's fingerprints all over it.  Roy is certainly not underrated. He gets a ton of recognition. But he isn't overrated either. When you take in account how much he has influenced the modern game you might say he is under appreciated.

I agree that system was very innovative (though not always effective in a tournament setting), although I’ve only ever seen Dean get credit for originally implementing it as head coach,  but your first two points—the wins and national titles—are honestly not that impressive to me given where he has coached and the talent he wasted at KU for decades.   
 

As far as coaches with notoriety, I don’t think Roy is anywhere near Jay Wright, who is, in my opinion, head and shoulders above any other coach in college basketball at the moment.  

[Fullbacksympathy]

6 hours ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

Lots of good choices above.  I always thought Rick Barnes was vastly overrated at Texas for the supposed talent they had.  However, he built a good team in Tennessee last year and has done a good job with that program; although, they appear to have regressed a bit this year.

 

As far as underrated...this won't be popular but McDermott churns out quality team after quality team and he did a phenomenal job transitioning the team in Blue to the Big East.  But, maybe it's just the money guy that is underrated.

Barnes seems like a decent pick, although he did some pretty cool stuff with his press back in the day.  I have no idea who you are talking abo in the second paragraph.  

[Dean Smith]

23 hours ago, LK1 said:

I agree that system was very innovative (though not always effective in a tournament setting), although I’ve only ever seen Dean get credit for originally implementing it as head coach,  but your first two points—the wins and national titles—are honestly not that impressive to me given where he has coached and the talent he wasted at KU for decades.   
 

As far as coaches with notoriety, I don’t think Roy is anywhere near Jay Wright, who is, in my opinion, head and shoulders above any other coach in college basketball at the moment.  

That system or an offshoot of it is pretty much run by almost everybody today. So when someone wins the Final Four then it has been effective in a tournament setting (maybe not Virginia). You might guess that I am a fan of Dean Smith and I've only ever heard the credit for the secondary going to Roy. That's why the secondary first run at UNC is known as KU across the country. I heard Coach Smith speak in coaching clinics and he has always been quick to give that credit to Coach Williams.

Edited February 6, 2020 by Dean Smith

[49r]

7 hours ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

Lots of good choices above.  I always thought Rick Barnes was vastly overrated at Texas for the supposed talent they had.  However, he built a good team in Tennessee last year and has done a good job with that program; although, they appear to have regressed a bit this year.

 

As far as underrated...this won't be popular but McDermott churns out quality team after quality team and he did a phenomenal job transitioning the team in Blue to the Big East.  But, maybe it's just the money guy that is underrated.

 

I'm pretty sure I disagree on the McDermott opinion here.  He's squandered an embarrassing amount of talent in his time.  NBA lottery picks, a Wooden Award winner and he's 3-8 in his career in NCAA Tourney games...never advancing past the second round.

[AuroranHusker]

7 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

I'm pretty sure I disagree on the McDermott opinion here.  He's squandered an embarrassing amount of talent in his time.  NBA lottery picks, a Wooden Award winner and he's 3-8 in his career in NCAA Tourney games...never advancing past the second round.

 

Never mind the fact that Fred Hoiberg is the one to clean up the considerable mess that he had left in Ames, Iowa.

[basketballjones]

Calling Roy overrated is a bit much, IMO. I won't repeat what Dean said, but he's correct. Roy is currently a victim of the current generation of kids and the landscape of the college game. He hasn't figured it out like Coach K has. You have no idea how much that pained me to say that. Roy would much rather prefer kids he's recruited and kept around for 2-4 years. This current model is not conducive to his style and strengths. I'm actually surprised that he has gone down this road like he has... it seems half-hearted and he's clearly not enjoying it. Speaking of overrated - Cole Anthony makes me vomit. 

Hot take - Coach K for overrated. How many times has that guy got beaten the same exact way and never adjusted? How much NBA or senior lead teams has he squandered before the Sweet 16? Dude should have double digit NCAA titles by now. He has done absolutely nothing to innovate the game. I've always heard rumblings that (before the one and done era), behind closed doors, Coach K is more Bobby Knight than Bobby Knight is. He's obviously changed. I'm slightly kidding regarding being overrated of course, but I will say that Coach K's biggest strength has always been creating an environment where players are forced to lead and buy-in. I've never heard a lot of people go, "let's run what Duke is running," etc... 

Underrated....... Hmmmm........
Randy Bennet - St. Mary's

Buzz Williams - wherever he's at now

Leonard the frickin man Hamilton - FSU, and apparently he's 71 but doesn't look older than 50
Bob Huggins - WV

 

But my two main ones might be Mike Brey - ND and Jay Wright - Nova. Both of these guys are constantly doing things that other coaches are stealing. Wright is obviously going to go down as one of the GOATs before it's all said and done. 
 

[basketballjones]

14 hours ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

Never mind the fact that Fred Hoiberg is the one to clean up the considerable mess that he had left in Ames, Iowa.

Both of you are correct... But at the risk of being banned from the board - Coach McDermott is a really good coach, and a great person. Living in Omaha I have had the pleasure of being able to attend many of his practices. He's really, really good. Just hasn't gotten it done in March and obviously Iowa State wasn't a good fit. 

[Fullbacksympathy]

16 hours ago, Dean Smith said:

That system or an offshoot of it is pretty much run by almost everybody today. So when someone wins the Final Four then it has been effective in a tournament setting (maybe not Virginia). You might guess that I am a fan of Dean Smith and I've only ever hear the credit for the secondary going to Roy. That's why the secondary first run at UNC is known as KU across the country. I heard Coach Smith speak in coaching clinics and he has always been quick to give that credit to Coach Williams.

 

Thanks for the info.  

[AuroranHusker]

Coach K is clearly overrated. Agree with @basketballjones on that assessment !

 

 

[Navin R. Johnson]

5 hours ago, basketballjones said:

Both of you are correct... But at the risk of being banned from the board - Coach McDermott is a really good coach, and a great person. Living in Omaha I have had the pleasure of being able to attend many of his practices. He's really, really good. Just hasn't gotten it done in March and obviously Iowa State wasn't a good fit. 

 

I have talked to Coach McDermott a number of times as well and I think he is a very good coach and a good guy.(just wish he was not at Creighton!)  I appreciate a guy that starts at a lower level and works his way up like Coach Mac and Miles.  I think there are a number of great coaches at the lower levels that don't get a chance to move up or choose to stay at D-II or a Mid-major school.  The difference between good and great is being able to bring in the big time talent.  Coaches anymore have to have connections to AAU programs or other systems and some guys that know the game very well and can teach the game just never get to work with the supreme talent sometimes. (Unless you are cheating to get players which can put a whole new spin on the topic as far as underrated and overrated coaches) 

Edited February 5, 2020 by Navin R. Johnson

[Cowboy Kermit]

Overrated: Jim Boeheim, Archie and Sean Miller. 

Underrated: Ben Jacobson, Niko Medved 

[jimmykc]

Overrated: 1.Frank Martin 2. Danny Manning, Underrated: Mark Few ( has coached at a small, West Coast school which always seems to be close, but hasn't won it all)

[Huskerpapa]

Any college coach is better at it than me.  So therefore they are all underrated in my simple mind. 

 

But there are many a fan(atic) that is cocksure they know more than many coaches.