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Posted
59 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Wake Forest is #72 in Kenpom, which is in the ballpark of where we were before we lost 40% of our starting lineup to season-ending injuries. Why would this guy be considered an improvement over what we have? Because his players don't get hurt?

As @basketballjones mentioned…wins. Forbes is gonna win more games in the past 2 seasons at Wake than Fred will in 4 seasons here. This many 20 loss seasons in a row would make any CBB fans long for wins. 

Posted
9 hours ago, The Polish Rifle said:

As @basketballjones mentioned…wins. Forbes is gonna win more games in the past 2 seasons at Wake than Fred will in 4 seasons here. This many 20 loss seasons in a row would make any CBB fans long for wins. 

 

Have you seen how craptacular the ACC is though?  It's just a whisker better than the Mountain West.  I think Fred could lead the Huskers to .500 in league play in the ACC.

 

Ranking of conferences by AdjEM of team that's expected to go .500 in conference play

Conference Rating Conference Rating
1 Big 12 Conference +18.81 18 Southern Conference -3.55
2 Big Ten Conference +15.21 19 Big Sky Conference -4.04
3 Big East Conference +13.70 20 ASUN Conference -4.07
4 Southeastern Conference +13.51 21 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference -5.06
5 Pac 12 Conference +11.41 22 Horizon League -5.26
6 Atlantic Coast Conference +9.45 23 Big South Conference -5.73
7 Mountain West Conference +9.21 24 Summit League -6.29
8 American Athletic Conference +6.60 25 Colonial Athletic Association -6.50
9 West Coast Conference +6.02 26 America East Conference -6.95
10 Conference USA +2.97 27 Patriot League -7.30
11 Atlantic 10 Conference +1.59 28 Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference -9.81
12 Western Athletic Conference +1.05 29 Ohio Valley Conference -10.49
13 Ivy League +0.20 30 Southland Conference -12.05
14 Missouri Valley Conference -0.48 31 Southwestern Athletic Conference -12.78
15 Sun Belt Conference -0.56 32 Northeast Conference -15.44
16 Big West Conference -1.76 33 Independents -17.70
17 Mid American Conference -3.46  

 

KenPom rankings of the ACC:

70).  Clemson - 18-5 (10-2)

13).  Virginia - 17-3 (9-2)

61).  Pittsburgh - 16-7 (9-3)

37).  Miami - 17-5 (8-4)

45).  NC State - 18-5 (8-4)

30).  Duke - 16-6 (7-4)

35).  North Carolina - 15-7 (7-4)

74).  Wake Forest - 14-9 (6-6)

88).  Syracuse - 13-10 (6-6)

167).  Florida State - 7-16 (5-7)

168).  Boston College - 11-12 (5-7)

53).  Virginia Tech - 13-9 (3-8)

159).  Notre Dame - 10-12 (2-9)

294).  Louisville - 3-19 (1-10)

213).  Georgia Tech - 8-14 (1-11)

 

 

Here is Wake's schedule this year.  Not exactly murder's row.  Even Doc Sadler would blush at that non-con (#214 NCSOS).  Last year he had a much softer schedule still if you can believe it (#350 NCSOS).

2023 Schedule 

Game Plan | Opponent Tracker

Date Rk Opponent Result     Location Record Conf  
Mon Nov 7 80 236 Fairfield W, 71-59 68   Home 1-0    
Fri Nov 11 78 106 Georgia W, 81-71 75   Home 2-0    
Tue Nov 15 75 87 Utah Valley W, 68-65 74 OT Home 3-0    
Fri Nov 18 76 249 La Salle W, 75-63 71   Neutral 4-0    
Sun Nov 20 75 95 Loyola Marymount L, 77-75 78 OT Neutral 4-1    
Wed Nov 23 78 349 South Carolina St. W, 105-74 78   Home 5-1    
Sat Nov 26 77 346 Hampton W, 97-70 73   Home 6-1    
Tue Nov 29 76 65 Wisconsin W, 78-75 69   Away 7-1    
Fri Dec 2 68 70 Clemson L, 77-57 72   Away 7-2 0-1  
Sat Dec 10 75 125 LSU L, 72-70 69   Neutral 7-3    
Wed Dec 14 80 175 Appalachian St. W, 67-66 65   Home 8-3    
Sat Dec 17 85 17 Rutgers L, 81-57 69   Away 8-4    
Tue Dec 20 92 30 Duke W, 81-70 72   Home 9-4 1-1  
Sat Dec 31 83 53 Virginia Tech W, 77-75 70   Home 10-4 2-1  
Wed Jan 4 87 35 North Carolina L, 88-79 71   Away 10-5 2-2  
Sat Jan 7 81 294 Louisville W, 80-72 66   Away 11-5 3-2  
Wed Jan 11 83 167 Florida St. W, 90-75 71   Home 12-5 4-2  
Sat Jan 14 81 168 Boston College W, 85-63 68   Away 13-5 5-2  
Tue Jan 17 73 70 Clemson W, 87-77 73   Home 14-5 6-2  
Sat Jan 21 73 13 Virginia L, 76-67 65   Home 14-6 6-3  
Wed Jan 25 74 61 Pittsburgh L, 81-79 68   Away 14-7 6-4  
Sat Jan 28 74 45 N.C. State L, 79-77 69   Home 14-8 6-5  
Tue Jan 31 74 30 Duke L, 75-73 70   Away 14-9 6-6  
Sat Feb 4   159 Notre Dame W, 78-75 66 62% Away   ×  
Tue Feb 7   35 North Carolina L, 79-78 70 47% Home   ×  
Sat Feb 11   213 Georgia Tech W, 80-67 68 88% Home   ×  
Sat Feb 18   37 Miami FL L, 84-77 69 27% Away   ×  
Wed Feb 22   45 N.C. State L, 82-75 71 28% Away   ×  
Sat Feb 25   159 Notre Dame W, 81-71 66 82% Home   ×  
Tue Feb 28   168 Boston College W, 78-67 68 83% Home   ×  
Sat Mar 4   88 Syracuse L, 78-76 68 44% Away   ×  
Projected record: 19-12 11-9

 

Posted
8 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

Have you seen how craptacular the ACC is though?  It's just a whisker better than the Mountain West.  I think Fred could lead the Huskers to .500 in league play in the ACC.

 

Ranking of conferences by AdjEM of team that's expected to go .500 in conference play

Conference Rating Conference Rating
1 Big 12 Conference +18.81 18 Southern Conference -3.55
2 Big Ten Conference +15.21 19 Big Sky Conference -4.04
3 Big East Conference +13.70 20 ASUN Conference -4.07
4 Southeastern Conference +13.51 21 Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference -5.06
5 Pac 12 Conference +11.41 22 Horizon League -5.26
6 Atlantic Coast Conference +9.45 23 Big South Conference -5.73
7 Mountain West Conference +9.21 24 Summit League -6.29
8 American Athletic Conference +6.60 25 Colonial Athletic Association -6.50
9 West Coast Conference +6.02 26 America East Conference -6.95
10 Conference USA +2.97 27 Patriot League -7.30
11 Atlantic 10 Conference +1.59 28 Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference -9.81
12 Western Athletic Conference +1.05 29 Ohio Valley Conference -10.49
13 Ivy League +0.20 30 Southland Conference -12.05
14 Missouri Valley Conference -0.48 31 Southwestern Athletic Conference -12.78
15 Sun Belt Conference -0.56 32 Northeast Conference -15.44
16 Big West Conference -1.76 33 Independents -17.70
17 Mid American Conference -3.46  

 

KenPom rankings of the ACC:

70).  Clemson - 18-5 (10-2)

13).  Virginia - 17-3 (9-2)

61).  Pittsburgh - 16-7 (9-3)

37).  Miami - 17-5 (8-4)

45).  NC State - 18-5 (8-4)

30).  Duke - 16-6 (7-4)

35).  North Carolina - 15-7 (7-4)

74).  Wake Forest - 14-9 (6-6)

88).  Syracuse - 13-10 (6-6)

167).  Florida State - 7-16 (5-7)

168).  Boston College - 11-12 (5-7)

53).  Virginia Tech - 13-9 (3-8)

159).  Notre Dame - 10-12 (2-9)

294).  Louisville - 3-19 (1-10)

213).  Georgia Tech - 8-14 (1-11)

 

 

Here is Wake's schedule this year.  Not exactly murder's row.  Even Doc Sadler would blush at that non-con (#214 NCSOS).  Last year he had a much softer schedule still if you can believe it (#350 NCSOS).

2023 Schedule 

Game Plan | Opponent Tracker

Date Rk Opponent Result     Location Record Conf  
Mon Nov 7 80 236 Fairfield W, 71-59 68   Home 1-0    
Fri Nov 11 78 106 Georgia W, 81-71 75   Home 2-0    
Tue Nov 15 75 87 Utah Valley W, 68-65 74 OT Home 3-0    
Fri Nov 18 76 249 La Salle W, 75-63 71   Neutral 4-0    
Sun Nov 20 75 95 Loyola Marymount L, 77-75 78 OT Neutral 4-1    
Wed Nov 23 78 349 South Carolina St. W, 105-74 78   Home 5-1    
Sat Nov 26 77 346 Hampton W, 97-70 73   Home 6-1    
Tue Nov 29 76 65 Wisconsin W, 78-75 69   Away 7-1    
Fri Dec 2 68 70 Clemson L, 77-57 72   Away 7-2 0-1  
Sat Dec 10 75 125 LSU L, 72-70 69   Neutral 7-3    
Wed Dec 14 80 175 Appalachian St. W, 67-66 65   Home 8-3    
Sat Dec 17 85 17 Rutgers L, 81-57 69   Away 8-4    
Tue Dec 20 92 30 Duke W, 81-70 72   Home 9-4 1-1  
Sat Dec 31 83 53 Virginia Tech W, 77-75 70   Home 10-4 2-1  
Wed Jan 4 87 35 North Carolina L, 88-79 71   Away 10-5 2-2  
Sat Jan 7 81 294 Louisville W, 80-72 66   Away 11-5 3-2  
Wed Jan 11 83 167 Florida St. W, 90-75 71   Home 12-5 4-2  
Sat Jan 14 81 168 Boston College W, 85-63 68   Away 13-5 5-2  
Tue Jan 17 73 70 Clemson W, 87-77 73   Home 14-5 6-2  
Sat Jan 21 73 13 Virginia L, 76-67 65   Home 14-6 6-3  
Wed Jan 25 74 61 Pittsburgh L, 81-79 68   Away 14-7 6-4  
Sat Jan 28 74 45 N.C. State L, 79-77 69   Home 14-8 6-5  
Tue Jan 31 74 30 Duke L, 75-73 70   Away 14-9 6-6  
Sat Feb 4   159 Notre Dame W, 78-75 66 62% Away   ×  
Tue Feb 7   35 North Carolina L, 79-78 70 47% Home   ×  
Sat Feb 11   213 Georgia Tech W, 80-67 68 88% Home   ×  
Sat Feb 18   37 Miami FL L, 84-77 69 27% Away   ×  
Wed Feb 22   45 N.C. State L, 82-75 71 28% Away   ×  
Sat Feb 25   159 Notre Dame W, 81-71 66 82% Home   ×  
Tue Feb 28   168 Boston College W, 78-67 68 83% Home   ×  
Sat Mar 4   88 Syracuse L, 78-76 68 44% Away   ×  
Projected record: 19-12 11-9

 

My man you’re doing way too much. Go look at his head coaching record on Wikipedia man lol. The guy wins, everywhere. 

Posted
3 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

My man you’re doing way too much. Go look at his head coaching record on Wikipedia man lol. The guy wins, everywhere. 

 

I am aware of his record at East Tennessee, everyone is.  I think Fred could probably rack up 25 win seasons in the Southern Conference too.

Posted
10 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Wake Forest is #72 in Kenpom, which is in the ballpark of where we were before we lost 40% of our starting lineup to season-ending injuries. Why would this guy be considered an improvement over what we have? Because his players don't get hurt?

Norm, Steve Forbes is a ridiculously good basketball coach and would instantly do everything that I feel you love about basketball coaches. I’m surprised you’re so dismissive about him. 
 

Forbes would immediately bring a real, true toughness edge we haven’t seen around here in a long time. He’d value dawgs over hype. Hoiberg has to pivot to valuing these things. Forbes lives by those things. 
 

He’d be a home run hire. I know you loved Miles - IMO, Forbes brings anything and everything Miles did… but with just a little more… I’m not sure what the word is… “gravitas” (?) to the toughness/dawg mentality persona. 

Posted
2 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

I am aware of his record at East Tennessee, everyone is.  I think Fred could probably rack up 25 win seasons in the Southern Conference too.

What about at Barton? What about at Northwest Florida? What about his extensive track record as an Assistant Coach working under Gillespie, Pearl, and Marshall? Dude knows how to grind, has an extensive record doing so, and is deeply connected. 
 

And how sure are you about that with Hoiberg? He had one good run (a great run, not dismissing that) where he hit lightening in a bottle with the transfer market before it was a big thing. Other than that he’s been a failure as a head coach. He has a 47% winning percentage post Iowa State. Every coach out there had to deal with COVID. That post the other day made about other coaches hired in ‘19 should have been illuminating for everyone. Only with Nebrasketball would we have this low of expectations.

Posted

But the question remains...why would Forbes want to leave Wake Forest for Nebraska?  Wichita State I could *maybe* see since he previously coached there (although maybe Shocker fans still want to distance themselves from the Gregg Marshall era?) but Nebraska?

 

Wake Forest is a million times better basketball school than Nebraska and it lies in the middle of one of the richest hoops recruiting areas in the country.

 

I can't see him wanting to leave that for what would be at best a lateral move.

 

If he is anywhere near as awesome a coach as some make him out to be, Nebraska ain't the move.  One would think he could hold out for any number of better jobs that are bound to open up in the next year or two.  Syracuse, for example, will be coming up soon one would think.  Georgetown too.  Louisville will most likely be available this year...

Posted
6 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

What about at Barton? What about at Northwest Florida? What about his extensive track record as an Assistant Coach working under Gillespie, Pearl, and Marshall? Dude knows how to grind, has an extensive record doing so, and is deeply connected. 
 

And how sure are you about that with Hoiberg? He had one good run (a great run, not dismissing that) where he hit lightening in a bottle with the transfer market before it was a big thing. Other than that he’s been a failure as a head coach. He has a 47% winning percentage post Iowa State. Every coach out there had to deal with COVID. That post the other day made about other coaches hired in ‘19 should have been illuminating for everyone. Only with Nebrasketball would we have this low of expectations.

 

Come on, man, Community College?  Really?  Guys that can dominate at the Community College level are a dime a dozen.

Posted
58 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

2023 Schedule 

Game Plan | Opponent Tracker

Date Rk Opponent Result     Location Record Conf  
Mon Nov 7 80 236 Fairfield W, 71-59 68   Home 1-0    
Fri Nov 11 78 106 Georgia W, 81-71 75   Home 2-0    
Tue Nov 15 75 87 Utah Valley W, 68-65 74 OT Home 3-0    
Fri Nov 18 76 249 La Salle W, 75-63 71   Neutral 4-0    
Sun Nov 20 75 95 Loyola Marymount L, 77-75 78 OT Neutral 4-1    
Wed Nov 23 78 349 South Carolina St. W, 105-74 78   Home 5-1    
Sat Nov 26 77 346 Hampton W, 97-70 73   Home 6-1    
Tue Nov 29 76 65 Wisconsin W, 78-75 69   Away 7-1    
Fri Dec 2 68 70 Clemson L, 77-57 72   Away 7-2 0-1  
Sat Dec 10 75 125 LSU L, 72-70 69   Neutral 7-3    
Wed Dec 14 80 175 Appalachian St. W, 67-66 65   Home 8-3    
Sat Dec 17 85 17 Rutgers L, 81-57 69   Away 8-4    
Tue Dec 20 92 30 Duke W, 81-70 72   Home 9-4 1-1  
Sat Dec 31 83 53 Virginia Tech W, 77-75 70   Home 10-4 2-1  
Wed Jan 4 87 35 North Carolina L, 88-79 71   Away 10-5 2-2  
Sat Jan 7 81 294 Louisville W, 80-72 66   Away 11-5 3-2  
Wed Jan 11 83 167 Florida St. W, 90-75 71   Home 12-5 4-2  
Sat Jan 14 81 168 Boston College W, 85-63 68   Away 13-5 5-2  
Tue Jan 17 73 70 Clemson W, 87-77 73   Home 14-5 6-2  
Sat Jan 21 73 13 Virginia L, 76-67 65   Home 14-6 6-3  
Wed Jan 25 74 61 Pittsburgh L, 81-79 68   Away 14-7 6-4  
Sat Jan 28 74 45 N.C. State L, 79-77 69   Home 14-8 6-5  
Tue Jan 31 74 30 Duke L, 75-73 70   Away 14-9 6-6  
Sat Feb 4   159 Notre Dame W, 78-75 66 62% Away   ×  
Tue Feb 7   35 North Carolina L, 79-78 70 47% Home   ×  
Sat Feb 11   213 Georgia Tech W, 80-67 68 88% Home   ×  
Sat Feb 18   37 Miami FL L, 84-77 69 27% Away   ×  
Wed Feb 22   45 N.C. State L, 82-75 71 28% Away   ×  
Sat Feb 25   159 Notre Dame W, 81-71 66 82% Home   ×  
Tue Feb 28   168 Boston College W, 78-67 68 83% Home   ×  
Sat Mar 4   88 Syracuse L, 78-76 68 44% Away   ×  
Projected record: 19-12 11-9

 

 

To be fair, they did play 4 P6 programs (Georgia, Wisco, LSU, and Rutgers) and a few of those programs have just stunk this year.  Mid-Majors are a crap shoot as you never know who you're going to play that could be good and boost your overall rating.

 

However-- the ACC is a disaster this year.  That 4 game losing streak they are on hurts, but they have a good opportunity to dance.  Can't say the same for us.

Posted
1 hour ago, 49r said:

KenPom rankings of the ACC:

70).  Clemson - 18-5 (10-2)

13).  Virginia - 17-3 (9-2)

61).  Pittsburgh - 16-7 (9-3)

37).  Miami - 17-5 (8-4)

45).  NC State - 18-5 (8-4)

30).  Duke - 16-6 (7-4)

35).  North Carolina - 15-7 (7-4)

74).  Wake Forest - 14-9 (6-6)

88).  Syracuse - 13-10 (6-6)

167).  Florida State - 7-16 (5-7)

168).  Boston College - 11-12 (5-7)

53).  Virginia Tech - 13-9 (3-8)

159).  Notre Dame - 10-12 (2-9)

294).  Louisville - 3-19 (1-10)

213).  Georgia Tech - 8-14 (1-11)

 

Seeing the ACC kenpom rankings actually listed out

 

giphy.gif

Posted
1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

Forbes is basically Craig Smith who had the unfortune of working for Bruce Pearl.

 

Find it hard to believe he's in the market to leave Wake after getting extended last year but find it harder to believe that people don't think he could win here or , lol, that Fred Hoiberg could have done what he did at all those stops.

 

If Fred couldn't easily duplicate Forbes' records in the low mid-majors, then what the hell are we paying him $3 million+ a year for?

 

Hoiberg did more at Iowa State than Forbes did at East Tennessee, this is an easily verifiable fact. I have no doubt that Fred could comfortably handle the SoCon.  He coached a team in the NBA to the playoffs, something that I doubt Forbes will ever have the chance to try.  

 

Just because Fred chose to commit career seppuku by coming to coach at Nebraska doesn't mean he hasn't achieved way more in less time than Forbes has, and it certainly doesn't mean that Forbes should be anxious to make the same career move.

Posted
38 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

If Fred couldn't easily duplicate Forbes' records in the low mid-majors, then what the hell are we paying him $3 million+ a year for?

 

Hoiberg did more at Iowa State than Forbes did at East Tennessee, this is an easily verifiable fact. I have no doubt that Fred could comfortably handle the SoCon.  He coached a team in the NBA to the playoffs, something that I doubt Forbes will ever have the chance to try.  

 

Just because Fred chose to commit career seppuku by coming to coach at Nebraska doesn't mean he hasn't achieved way more in less time than Forbes has, and it certainly doesn't mean that Forbes should be anxious to make the same career move.

 

IMO, we need to go after a mid-major coach that's willing to accept a new challenge and build his own program. I don't think any established P6 coaches are toughing this job. 

Posted
1 hour ago, 49r said:

 

If Fred couldn't easily duplicate Forbes' records in the low mid-majors, then what the hell are we paying him $3 million+ a year for?

 

Hoiberg did more at Iowa State than Forbes did at East Tennessee, this is an easily verifiable fact. I have no doubt that Fred could comfortably handle the SoCon.  He coached a team in the NBA to the playoffs, something that I doubt Forbes will ever have the chance to try.  

 

Just because Fred chose to commit career seppuku by coming to coach at Nebraska doesn't mean he hasn't achieved way more in less time than Forbes has, and it certainly doesn't mean that Forbes should be anxious to make the same career move.

 

Whether Forbes would come here and whether he would have success here are two different things. I would agree with you I don't think he comes here as I have no expectation of him wanting to move in the first place. 

 

The biggest thing that Forbes does that Hoiberg doesn't is recruiting. The reason that Hoiberg wouldn't have the same sort of success that Forbes had is because Hoiberg wouldn't have built those teams. As far as why we're paying Hoiberg 3+ million a year, it's because he's a former NBA player who coached Iowa St to multiple wins in the NCAA tourney and coached the Bulls in the playoffs and we thought that he could have similar success here.

Posted
1 hour ago, 49r said:

Just because Fred chose to commit career seppuku by coming to coach at Nebraska doesn't mean he hasn't achieved way more in less time than Forbes has, and it certainly doesn't mean that Forbes should be anxious to make the same career move.

Fred definitely deserves credit for what he did at ISU. I have a hard time chalking up his Husker tenure as ‘Nebrasketball gonna Nebrasketball’. His resume is a full picture, he had a hell of a 4 year run at ISU, and he’s had what may be the worst 4 year stretch any P5 coach has ever had at Nebraska. 

Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, 49r said:

 

If Fred couldn't easily duplicate Forbes' records in the low mid-majors, then what the hell are we paying him $3 million+ a year for?

 

Hoiberg did more at Iowa State than Forbes did at East Tennessee, this is an easily verifiable fact. I have no doubt that Fred could comfortably handle the SoCon.  He coached a team in the NBA to the playoffs, something that I doubt Forbes will ever have the chance to try.  

 

Just because Fred chose to commit career seppuku by coming to coach at Nebraska doesn't mean he hasn't achieved way more in less time than Forbes has, and it certainly doesn't mean that Forbes should be anxious to make the same career move.


So we’re just going to blame us for Fred’s dismal results here?  It’s all on Nebraska?  Fred has no responsibility for a bad plan upon taking the job, hiring a substandard  staff, for not leveraging his ISU success and NBA experience in recruiting, whiffing on the best collection of in-state talent in decades, having a complete lack of discipline and accountability for 3 years, and in hiring and then staying with Abdelmassih for 3 years?  Okay.  Our bad. 

Edited by HB
Posted
On 12/12/2022 at 2:17 PM, 49r said:

 

On 1/5/2023 at 2:49 PM, Navin R. Johnson said:

One of the best coaches in the game is looking for a job.

 

 

 

On 1/7/2023 at 2:40 PM, Red Don said:

I miss Weidner.

Maybe Billy Clyde Gillespie has served his penance and could resurrect his career.   IF, and it’s a very,very big IF, Chris Beard’s situation came to a cleansing, satisfactory resolution then I would pursue him.

Posted
44 minutes ago, HB said:


So we’re just going to blame us for Fred’s dismal results here?  It’s all on Nebraska?  Fred has no responsibility for a bad plan upon taking the job, hiring a substandard  staff, for not leveraging his ISU success and NBA experience in recruiting, whiffing on the best collection of in-state talent decades, having a complete lack of discipline and accountability for 3 years, and in hiring and then staying with Abdelmassih for 3 years?  Okay.  Our bad. 

 

Well, when you put it that way ...

Posted (edited)

Well he lost Five straight in 2013/14 😬 (8-8 up to that point in the year) with Nobodyindex.phpgiving him any chance of winning any more games that season, Before beating Ohio State 68-62 💣 on Jan 20; Going 11-3 the rest of the way, culminating with no-sit Sunday.  🙏

 

:ph34r: Happily, I was at the 80-67 PBA win over Penn State on 2/20/14  ;)

 

Go Big Tim!  :Lol:

Edited by Red Don

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