Thoughts on Dayton game last night

[basketballjones]

First off, that's a game we usually lose in the non conference that constantly plays into our "what if scenario at the end of the year." Good, if not great, win last night.

 

As a lot of you have noticed, I've been heavily critical of Coach Miles' offensive philosophy over the past few years. I absolutely despise our continuity hand-off/ball screen game. I vomited over our lack of transition push on misses and makes that were easy to get out and go. And more importantly, I had grown quite weary of listening to Coach Miles talk about how he's a motion coach every year, and speak about motion at every clinic or camp I saw him at - only to constantly run our 1-4 high quick hitters/entries into our ball-screen/hand-off action. 

 

BUT LAST NIGHT, BY THE GRACE OF THE THANKSGIVING GOD AND ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THE BASKETBALL WORLD - I saw beautiful flashes of real, read and react, dribble drive, pass screen away, 4 out 1 in, and 3 mover 2 blocker motion basketball. There were random post ups, flare screens, random (well timed) ball screens, fluid actions that built off of each other. We saw transition pushes into motion based principles, we saw people running actual specific lanes in transition, we saw a coach trust his point guard to push it and know when to not push it...

 

They also only used their continuity offense and 1-4 high entries on dead ball or slow paced opportunities. WE controlled the pace last night with our intelligent offensive play. 'Twas a thing of beauty my friends...

 

My only frustrations last night were slow defensive adjustments and late game management. How long did it take to figure out to switch all the guard to guard hand offs? How many times were they going to get us on that action where the trailing big dive bombed while the hand off was going on (effectively acting as a moving screen)? Once we finally figured this stuff out it was almost too late. Watson got that great steal when he finally figured out how to switch those hand offs. 

 

Also, can we get an adjustment on press break? Or how about a timeout, up 1, with 1.8 seconds to instruct your dude to try to miss the FT and get everyone matched up. Only shot that could be attempted with 1.8 seconds left is a full court 3, which beats you whether you're up 1 or 2. But if you make it, it gives them an opportunity to get the ball out of bounds and set up a better shot with a long pass. Miss the FT, instruct your guys to stay matched up without fouling, and Dayton never gets the ball past 3/4 court. 

 

Just my opinions. Last night was beautiful from this guys perspective... I very much enjoyed watching that team play. 

[royalfan]

I think it is safe to say coach Lewis deserves most of the credit for our offense looking like a dangerous one.  We are having no trouble at all getting good shots.  Granted, we do have some dudes now, but the movement and spacing probably wouldn't be there without coach Lewis. 

 

I am still a little bit frustrated by our defense as well.  I thought Molinari would be a little better than he has shown thus far.  He has been a lot better on the recruiting front than I ever would have imagined though.  I wish his defense reputation would start showing a little better results on that end though.  The adjustments need to be better, like you mentioned.  I still think back to that NW game last year at home.  A freshman back up big man had 30 or so on about 12 pick and roll dunks.  It showed a bit of a problem with adjustments.

[Fullbacksympathy]

5 minutes ago, royalfan said:

I think it is safe to say coach Lewis deserves most of the credit for our offense looking like a dangerous one.  We are having no trouble at all getting good shots.  Granted, we do have some dudes now, but the movement and spacing probably wouldn't be there without coach Lewis. 

 

I am still a little bit frustrated by our defense as well.  I thought Molinari would be a little better than he has shown thus far.  He has been a lot better on the recruiting front than I ever would have imagined though.  I wish his defense reputation would start showing a little better results on that end though.  The adjustments need to be better, like you mentioned.  I still think back to that NW game last year at home.  A freshman back up big man had 30 or so on about 12 pick and roll dunks.  It showed a bit of a problem with adjustments.

 

Agree with the Lewis analysis (the points in the paint difference was incredible), but disagree with the Mo analysis.  We held Dayton to 38% shooting last night and kept their NBA SG in check fairly well despite an extremely ticky tac ref squad.  We held La Tech to 37% shooting.  Our defense has been extremely good this year because we no longer have to double the post.  This year and last year are different planets, personnel wise.  Having a talented 7' Fr as a fresh body, plus Roby's ability to play the 4 make a huge difference.  That's two bodies we didn't have last year which allow Jacobson and Morrow to play together, and those two are a tough duo on both ends.  

 

Dayton did seem to get to the lane at will, but that is literally the quickest team we'll face all season, and we had a lot of blocked shots.  

[Art Vandalay]

Jones, I agree on the offensive improvements and am sure Lewis has a big hand. I also feel that a major reason is we have 4-5 guys on the floor all the time that can move, pass, and shoot. I love Shavon and Benny but ball handling and passing were not strong points. Then add White to that mix and we were just not a good passing team at all.

 

I was concerned with our TO use, transition defense, and defensive rebounding, all need to improve but we are young and they will learn. I am not down on half court defense though, I think the numbers will show we are solid there.

[khoock]

Feel like this whole thread should be in the Dayton post game thread...

[basketballjones]

16 minutes ago, royalfan said:

I think it is safe to say coach Lewis deserves most of the credit for our offense looking like a dangerous one.  We are having no trouble at all getting good shots.  Granted, we do have some dudes now, but the movement and spacing probably wouldn't be there without coach Lewis. 

 

I am still a little bit frustrated by our defense as well.  I thought Molinari would be a little better than he has shown thus far.  He has been a lot better on the recruiting front than I ever would have imagined though.  I wish his defense reputation would start showing a little better results on that end though.  The adjustments need to be better, like you mentioned.  I still think back to that NW game last year at home.  A freshman back up big man had 30 or so on about 12 pick and roll dunks.  It showed a bit of a problem with adjustments.

I, unfortunately, do not have an educated opinion on the roles/accomplishments/faults of our assistants. I did not get the opportunity with my schedule to see a Husker practice or workout this year. 

 

But fwiw, the new coach may be helping with a bit of this, but it's not like Coach Miles doesn't "know" these spacing and motion concepts. My guess was he's never felt comfortable with a point guard, or guards in general, to actually run it. I think he's got a ton of trust in Watson/Tai/Gill/Taylor's abilities, and also trusts the bigs we have in the program to play a bit more freely and be allowed to operate in the post when they choose. 

 

I'm never quick to compliment or criticize assistants. The HC creates the environment for the program and what roles everyone has. Fwiw, we still run the same general defensive concept we've always ran - before or after Coach Mo. 

[basketballjones]

1 minute ago, khoock said:

Feel like this whole thread should be in the Dayton post game thread...

But then I wouldn't get the attention I so desperately crave. 

[royalfan]

All good points LK.  My thoughts on Lewis are about 20 times stronger than Mo by the way.  Our defense was so bad at times last year, that is still weighing on my mind.  Hopefully, it will be shown to be a blip in the grand scheme of our defense. 

[HuskerFever]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

First off, that's a game we usually lose in the non conference that constantly plays into our "what if scenario at the end of the year."

 

The @ Rhode Island game comes to mind when thinking about this matchup. We barely squeezed this one out, but a win is a win. I think it shows that we're a young but scrappy team.

[Jugular]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

First off, that's a game we usually lose in the non conference that constantly plays into our "what if scenario at the end of the year." Good, if not great, win last night.

 

As a lot of you have noticed, I've been heavily critical of Coach Miles' offensive philosophy over the past few years. I absolutely despise our continuity hand-off/ball screen game. I vomited over our lack of transition push on misses and makes that were easy to get out and go. And more importantly, I had grown quite weary of listening to Coach Miles talk about how he's a motion coach every year, and speak about motion at every clinic or camp I saw him at - only to constantly run our 1-4 high quick hitters/entries into our ball-screen/hand-off action. 

 

BUT LAST NIGHT, BY THE GRACE OF THE THANKSGIVING GOD AND ALL THAT IS GOOD IN THE BASKETBALL WORLD - I saw beautiful flashes of real, read and react, dribble drive, pass screen away, 4 out 1 in, and 3 mover 2 blocker motion basketball. There were random post ups, flare screens, random (well timed) ball screens, fluid actions that built off of each other. We saw transition pushes into motion based principles, we saw people running actual specific lanes in transition, we saw a coach trust his point guard to push it and know when to not push it...

 

They also only used their continuity offense and 1-4 high entries on dead ball or slow paced opportunities. WE controlled the pace last night with our intelligent offensive play. 'Twas a thing of beauty my friends...

 

My only frustrations last night were slow defensive adjustments and late game management. How long did it take to figure out to switch all the guard to guard hand offs? How many times were they going to get us on that action where the trailing big dive bombed while the hand off was going on (effectively acting as a moving screen)? Once we finally figured this stuff out it was almost too late. Watson got that great steal when he finally figured out how to switch those hand offs. 

 

Also, can we get an adjustment on press break? Or how about a timeout, up 1, with 1.8 seconds to instruct your dude to try to miss the FT and get everyone matched up. Only shot that could be attempted with 1.8 seconds left is a full court 3, which beats you whether you're up 1 or 2. But if you make it, it gives them an opportunity to get the ball out of bounds and set up a better shot with a long pass. Miss the FT, instruct your guys to stay matched up without fouling, and Dayton never gets the ball past 3/4 court. 

 

Just my opinions. Last night was beautiful from this guys perspective... I very much enjoyed watching that team play. 

 

It's possible Ed tried to miss and actually made it. Did you see that first FT?  ?

[royalfan]

1 minute ago, Jugular said:

 

It's possible Ed tried to miss and actually made it. Did you see that first FT?  ?

Jones is certainly correct that he should have missed.  I believe he was trying to miss, but it would be interesting question for Miles. 

[nustudent]

I think Lewis helps most definitely.   But I think personnel is probably the biggest factor.   You have a very talented point guard who is playing 30+ minutes a game.  You don't have a liability out there in Parker.   Your big guys aren't undersized, injured true freshmen or Jake Hammond.    Shields was a great player but he had to handle the ball a lot to be successful

[royalfan]

Good point on the personnel possibly not being conducive to the motion offense that we are able to play now.  Those two players you mentioned are sort of like fitting a square peg into a round hole in regards to motion offense. 

[Dean Smith]

10 minutes ago, Jugular said:

 

It's possible Ed tried to miss and actually made it. Did you see that first FT?  ?

You try to make both which gives you a three point lead and then worst case scenario, you go to overtime. Once you miss the first, you then miss the second to force them to take the 3/4 court three.

 

You defend all of their players from the back and make them go away from the basket to receive the ball. With such little time, they probably couldn't get a pass off  up the court anyway.

 

You put two bigs on the lane while we are shooting the "missed" free throw. They would be under extreme instructions to not try to get a rebound or do anything but stand there on the shot so there couldn't be any chance of a foul call on them. By putting two bigs there you force Dayton to do the same. That's two players you don't have to defend up the court and now you have their bigs getting the rebound with 1.8 seconds left and they have to use valuable time passing to a guard or they have to dribble out and take the shot themselves which puts them in a very uncomfortable position. It's likely they try to pass and eat up the whole clock. 

 

Bottom line you have to make sure your players do nothing on the rebound or shot that could in any way be construed as a foul. If they hit a 3/4 court shot to beat you then so be it. They odds are definitely in you favor if you play this way. 

[aphilso1]

Great thread, guys.  I think I know stuff, until I read analysis like this that's on a whole different level.  Super informative and definitely worth it's own thread!

[royalfan]

While I would probably coach it exactly how Dean described, I am still not sure math would say that it would be the correct approach trying to make both.  If you miss the second a big man will likely get the rebound and then have to turn and fire.  Probably goes in one in 1000 times, but you do lose the game if it does.  If you go up 3 and they inbound it to half court or maybe even inside half court, you likely have a guard shooting and lets say it goes it one out of 40 times, which could be low.  That ties the game.  And you will lose half of the time or more in overtime.  I think I have officially changed my mind.  Better to miss the second no matter what.  The math doesn't lie IMO.  They are basically drawing dead if you miss the second one. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by royalfan

[Dean Smith]

45 minutes ago, royalfan said:

While I would probably coach it exactly how Dean described, I am still not sure math would say that it would be the correct approach trying to make both.  If you miss the second a big man will likely get the rebound and then have to turn and fire.  Probably goes in one in 1000 times, but you do lose the game if it does.  If you go up 3 and they inbound it to half court or maybe even inside half court, you likely have a guard shooting and lets say it goes it one out of 40 times, which could be low.  That ties the game.  And you will lose half of the time or more in overtime.  I think I have officially changed my mind.  Better to miss the second no matter what.  The math doesn't lie IMO.  They are basically drawing dead if you miss the second one. 

The only thing I disagree with is losing half or more in overtime. Life has lots of variables. You take in consideration Tai fouling out last night. Other times you would consider home or on the road and simply who has the better team. The longer the game, the greater the chance the better team wins.  Last night we had the better team but now we are without Tai if it goes OT. Statistically speaking if you're in that situation you are going to win the vast majority of the time.

 

I think more important that what you're planning, is having a plan. You cover every possible end of game situation you can think of in practice and you increase the team's confidence in their ability to succeed and their confidence in you as a coach. Covering the details allows you to say, "We've practices this, now go execute it."  

 

I really did like Doc Sadler but I felt that many times in end of game situations you could tell they were winging it. Prepared equals confidence and confidence increases you chance of success. 

[Silverbacked1]

I think we may have also snuck up on our first team last night. I think if you could ask coach Archie in private last night his team did not respect us or think they had to play that hard to beat us.

 

We did what we needed to do which was jump on them early, play much harder than them, keep the pressure on, and then finish them.

 

After Dayton figured out that we are a good to very good team it was to late for them to win.  Used a lot of their energy to have to climb back in too many times. And we are good enough this year to weather those storms and come out with a lead and then a win.

[brfrad]

The best thing about the win, is that it gives us 2 more resume games.  We play UCLA tonight, and either Texas A & M and Va Tech.

 

We will find out how good our defense is tonight.  We hold UCLA to less than 80, we have a very good defense.  The problem I see with our defense is youth, and why the bench struggles in games so far.  I've seen a few times, where one of our freshmen go out on a shooter out of control, and that allows the shooter to go by them.  We then have to send help to the player, and leave someone open.

[kleitus]

12 minutes ago, Silverbacked1 said:

I think we may have also snuck up on our first team last night. I think if you could ask coach Archie in private last night his team did not respect us or think they had to play that hard to beat us.

 

We did what we needed to do which was jump on them early, play much harder than them, keep the pressure on, and then finish them.

 

After Dayton figured out that we are a good to very good team it was to late for them to win.  Used a lot of their energy to have to climb back in too many times. And we are good enough this year to weather those storms and come out with a lead and then a win.

 

Not going to sneak up on many more if we are good enough to play daytons guards to a standstill. 

 

We'll see how we do tonight.  ucla has no reason to take us seriously either.

[basketballjones]

2 hours ago, royalfan said:

While I would probably coach it exactly how Dean described, I am still not sure math would say that it would be the correct approach trying to make both.  If you miss the second a big man will likely get the rebound and then have to turn and fire.  Probably goes in one in 1000 times, but you do lose the game if it does.  If you go up 3 and they inbound it to half court or maybe even inside half court, you likely have a guard shooting and lets say it goes it one out of 40 times, which could be low.  That ties the game.  And you will lose half of the time or more in overtime.  I think I have officially changed my mind.  Better to miss the second no matter what.  The math doesn't lie IMO.  They are basically drawing dead if you miss the second one. 

I'm not talking about missing both - it's about missing the second because he missed the first. If he made the first then obviously you make the second, because OT is worse case scenario. 

[royalfan]

1 hour ago, basketballjones said:

I'm not talking about missing both - it's about missing the second because he missed the first. If he made the first then obviously you make the second, because OT is worse case scenario. 

 

Yeah I know that is what you meant.   My latest discussion is if he should miss anyway, after making the first.   I believe it is smart game theory to do miss and force a full court shot to win or lose the game.  The odds are so slim of making it, I think it is worth it, after thinking about it a bit. 

[hhcmatt]

5 hours ago, nustudent said:

I think Lewis helps most definitely.   But I think personnel is probably the biggest factor.   You have a very talented point guard who is playing 30+ minutes a game.  You don't have a liability out there in Parker.   Your big guys aren't undersized, injured true freshmen or Jake Hammond.    Shields was a great player but he had to handle the ball a lot to be successful

 

Lewis certainly has to help bringing all his Butler and Bobby Knight experience to the table but I'd put more weight into our current roster being more appropriate for this sort of offense.  The other thing not mentioned here is that while we have players capable of dominating shot attempts we don't really have anyone on the roster who NEEDS to dominate the shot attempts.

[hhcmatt]

6 hours ago, khoock said:

Feel like this whole thread should be in the Dayton post game thread...

 

I'm going to point the finger for loss of institutional control at tryptophan

[hhcmatt]

6 hours ago, LK1 said:

We held Dayton to 38% shooting last night and kept their NBA SG in check fairly well despite an extremely ticky tac ref squad

 

This was a bit misleading at they missed a ton of short shots which lead to 16 offensive rebounds.  I think it's encouraging how we handled a team capable of killing you from long range but the 1.10 Points per possession points to an overall subpar showing.