Difference between this team and Doc's teams

[Norm Peterson]

Doc never had a Terran Petteway.

 

Seriously.

 

This team plays good defense.  Doc's teams played good defense.

 

Doc's teams went deep into possessions looking for a shot.  This team can go deep into possessions looking for a shot.

 

I think the key difference is that Doc never had a guy like Terran Petteway (or Shavon Shields, the way he played last night) who could hit the kinds of shots those guys hit.

 

Early in the 2nd half, shot clock winding down, Terran drives towards the baseline, probably 5 feet outside the lane, puts up a bank shot and hits it.  I think that was just before or just after his 3 to answer Rice's 3 that put Illinois up 6.

 

The woman behind me groaned when he let it go but it went in.  And it occurred to me, y'know, Doc never had a player who could hit that shot.  And Petteway does it consistently.  And not just that kind of shot but any kind of shot.  He actually scores.

 

We don't have as many empty possessions as we used to because this team has guys who can actually score.  In-system, out-of-system, we have a couple of guys who can hit shots.

 

That's the bottom line.  We have guys who can score.  Makes Miles look like an offensive genius.

[AuroranHusker]

No doubt, it's high time NU has a roster w/ some finishers to make clutch plays, not just 1 guy like Ade Duganduro (or a Lance Jeter) that Doc had on his roster.

[Handy Johnson]

Doc had teams that overachieved and played their a** off on defense, shortest team in D1 and they won 20. This team has loads more talent, and let's remind ourselves, we start 3 sophomores & a freshman. Should be heady days ahead Husker fans!

[GoBigRed]

I don't even bat an eye when Petteway shoots any shot anymore like I did early in the season. He's proven himself. He's our guy and if he misses, I'd rather lose a game with him being off than with him just not shooting the ball at all.

 

And funny you compare this team to Doc's defenses Norm. Remember at the beginning of the year when everyone was all up in arms about this team's defensive effort and how we longed for the days of Doc's defensive teams? They've come a long way in a short amount of time. And we still don't have any big guys protecting the rim.

[Boots]

The question I have is would Doc have let a player like Terran see the floor.  I don't mean this as a knock on Doc, but Terran takes a lot of shots early in the shot clock, takes a lot of difficult shots and is a little loose with the ball at times which I think would have driven Doc crazy.  I could just envision Doc burying him on the bench once he committed a bad turnover or took an early bad shot.

[hhcmatt]

And it occurred to me, y'know, Doc never had a player who could hit that shot.  

 

Marcus Perry. Bo Spencer.

Honorable mention to Steve Harley and Sek Henry.

 

Both coaches had guys who could score.

I'd say it's more about Doc trying to be perfect and Miles trying to minimize mistakes.  Brandon Richardson still probably looks over his shoulder if he misses a shot on his driveway.

[HuskerBB]

The question I have is would Doc have let a player like Terran see the floor.  I don't mean this as a knock on Doc, but Terran takes a lot of shots early in the shot clock, takes a lot of difficult shots and is a little loose with the ball at times which I think would have driven Doc crazy.  I could just envision Doc burying him on the bench once he committed a bad turnover or took an early bad shot.

 

Very true.  Doc would have certainly at least reigned Petteway in from some of the things he has done this year - which would have made him much more hesitant on the floor.  Others mentioned Daganduro as a player Doc had that was very talented.  That is more similar in position - but in the context of the question I would use Bo Spencer as an example of a player that Doc had that was very talented and while smaller played similarly in some respect to Petteway.

[BenJammin63]

I would say Doc had the better defense overall. But Miles is starting to get a little closer. And what hurt Doc was that it seemed like every year he had like one big time player, and then a couple of ok players who could do their job and get a few points. But with this team, we have two big time scorers and a lot of people who could go off at any moment. 

[AuroranHusker]

The question I have is would Doc have let a player like Terran see the floor.  I don't mean this as a knock on Doc, but Terran takes a lot of shots early in the shot clock, takes a lot of difficult shots and is a little loose with the ball at times which I think would have driven Doc crazy.  I could just envision Doc burying him on the bench once he committed a bad turnover or took an early bad shot.

 

Very true.  Doc would have certainly at least reigned Petteway in from some of the things he has done this year - which would have made him much more hesitant on the floor.  Others mentioned Daganduro as a player Doc had that was very talented.  That is more similar in position - but in the context of the question I would use Bo Spencer as an example of a player that Doc had that was very talented and while smaller played similarly in some respect to Petteway.

I see the comparison to Bo w/ talent, but he didn't really finish well around the rim. Bo was always ready to be the guy to shoot it & handle the rock in crunch time. Ade did a lot of things well, especially his SR year & will his team to victory despite all odds. I guess I'm being a little harsh on Bo as the team only had 12 wins his one season...

[colhusker]

While I think Doc's teams play good defense, I still have not been convinced that some of his teams great defense was simply holding the ball for 33 seconds each trip.

[Norm Peterson]

 

And it occurred to me, y'know, Doc never had a player who could hit that shot.  

 

Marcus Perry. Bo Spencer.

Honorable mention to Steve Harley and Sek Henry.

 

Both coaches had guys who could score.

I'd say it's more about Doc trying to be perfect and Miles trying to minimize mistakes.  Brandon Richardson still probably looks over his shoulder if he misses a shot on his driveway.

 

No.  Sorry.  Perry was a great shooter if he caught the ball in rhythm beyond the arc.  He could nail threes at a pretty high rate.  But he did NOT create his own offense.  Spencer was close, but as someone else pointed out, he wasn't able to finish at the rim like Petteway and Petteway's numbers are all-around better than Spencer's.

 

Petteway is hitting 37% from three and 45% overall.  Spencer was 34% from three and 41% overall.

 

 Harley and Henry were nowhere near as good of shooters as Petteway.  Nowhere near.  Terran is one of those rare players who can score from anywhere.  Last night, he shot (and made) a 3 off the dribble, he took it off the dribble and got to the rim, and he hit a mid-range fade-away jumper off the dribble.

 

Sek and Steve simply could not do what Petteway does.  Period.

[Norm Peterson]

Oh, and Petteway is 6'6" whereas Harley was 5'11", Perry and Spencer were 6'2", and Sek Henry was 6'3".

[atskooc]

Just think what would happen if Miles would run Kansas' offense.

[kldm64]

Well, if Doc didn't have players like Petteway on this teams, then who's fault is that?  Doc had some very good offensive players but he kept the reins so tight on his players on the offensive end that a guy like Petteway wouldn't be playing like he is now if Doc was his coach.  So I don't buy the notion that Doc didn't have guys like Petteway on his team.  He had Stanhardinger who had loads of offensive talent but Doc had no idea how to coach a player like that.  Yes, he was out of control at times but so was Petteway at the beginning of the season.  Miles figured out a way to get to play the way he needed him to.  Doc couldn't seem to figure that out so he just benched players.  You wouldn't be seeing the same player Petteway is if Doc was the coach so there is no way to make a comparison.

[HuskerPower #nato73]

It's about the ability to create, not just knock down shots.  Petteway and Shields last night can create their own.  Get down 40-34 and without batting an eye, Petteway hits the pull-up three and Shields on the next possession gets the and one.

 

40-40 and then extend from there.

 

Not in our house and not tonight.

 

 

We still lack a big and what was more apparent to me last night we lack speed.  (Hence our need to play Benny)  Hawkins, Webster etc. struggle a bit to play side to side defense.  Parker and Rivers played it very well last night.

[HuskerBB]

 

 

And it occurred to me, y'know, Doc never had a player who could hit that shot.  

 

Marcus Perry. Bo Spencer.

Honorable mention to Steve Harley and Sek Henry.

 

Both coaches had guys who could score.

I'd say it's more about Doc trying to be perfect and Miles trying to minimize mistakes.  Brandon Richardson still probably looks over his shoulder if he misses a shot on his driveway.

 

No.  Sorry.  Perry was a great shooter if he caught the ball in rhythm beyond the arc.  He could nail threes at a pretty high rate.  But he did NOT create his own offense.  Spencer was close, but as someone else pointed out, he wasn't able to finish at the rim like Petteway and Petteway's numbers are all-around better than Spencer's.

 

Petteway is hitting 37% from three and 45% overall.  Spencer was 34% from three and 41% overall.

 

 Harley and Henry were nowhere near as good of shooters as Petteway.  Nowhere near.  Terran is one of those rare players who can score from anywhere.  Last night, he shot (and made) a 3 off the dribble, he took it off the dribble and got to the rim, and he hit a mid-range fade-away jumper off the dribble.

 

Sek and Steve simply could not do what Petteway does.  Period.

 

 

The point wasn't to compare their actual numbers.   My point would be that if Spencer played for Miles rather than Doc his numbers would have been better - and conversely if Petteway played for Doc rather than Miles his numbers would be considerably worse.  I think in terms of raw talent Spencer was every bit as talented as Petteway (offensively anyway and understanding Petteway is obviously taller).

 

That said perhaps the overriding original point was that Doc generally had less talent to work with and that is true.  But personally I see alot of differences between MIles and Doc that go beyond recruiting as well.

[GoBigRed]

Spencer and Petteway have similar games, but Petteway will always be the better scorer because of his height advantage. Needs to work on his passing though. Doc never had an offensive talent as good as Terran. I still think Terran would have put up numbers in Doc's system. Spencer and Talley were given a lot of leeway once Doc realized nobody else could really score.

[Norm Peterson]

Fair point, HuskerBB.  I just think Petteway creates and makes shots like no one we've seen around here in a very long time.  And it's not just creating the shots, it's making the shots he creates. 

 

And drop Doc from the equation if you want.  Other than Tyron Lue, I can't think of a player we've ever had who has had this type of ability to generate his own offense.  Nate Johnson?  Nate was pretty good but small and he wasn't going to finish strong at the rim in traffic.  If you cleared it out for him, he was probably going to score.

 

But Terran makes shots that few players I have ever seen in a Husker uni would have had the guts to even take.  And, yeah, I think he forces some things sometimes.  Still takes some ill-advised shots like his fade-away three that he airballed last night.  But his ability to score is truly unusual. 

[jimmykc]

The main difference is that Doc's teams played baseline to baseline.

[HoiBall]

Fair point, HuskerBB.  I just think Petteway creates and makes shots like no one we've seen around here in a very long time.  And it's not just creating the shots, it's making the shots he creates. 

 

And drop Doc from the equation if you want.  Other than Tyron Lue, I can't think of a player we've ever had who has had this type of ability to generate his own offense.  Nate Johnson?  Nate was pretty good but small and he wasn't going to finish strong at the rim in traffic.  If you cleared it out for him, he was probably going to score.

 

But Terran makes shots that few players I have ever seen in a Husker uni would have had the guts to even take.  And, yeah, I think he forces some things sometimes.  Still takes some ill-advised shots like his fade-away three that he airballed last night.  But his ability to score is truly unusual. 

Man he loves that little fadeaway going to his right from the right wing. I don't know how many times he's made that this year. I remember him shooting one at Purdue and all I could think was how lucky he was that he made it. Now, I actually believe that that shot is a high percentage one for him

[Section_316]

Miles gives freedom

 

Doc did not

[jdostal]

While I think Doc's teams play good defense, I still have not been convinced that some of his teams great defense was simply holding the ball for 33 seconds each trip.

 

No, they played great defense.  They were regularly a top AdjD on KenPom, which adjusts for tempo.

[jdostal]

Miles gives freedom

 

Doc did not

So Doc gave death?

[AuroranHusker]

Miles gives freedom

 

Doc did not

So Doc gave death?

Miles had a dream

Doc doesn't dream

[KZRider]

I don't think it has much to do with the players. The difference is Doc HOPED the Huskers might steal a win and Miles BELIEVES we can take one away. It pains me to say this because I loved Doc as a person but, IMO, if Doc were coaching this same squad of players we would have lost against ILL and Indy and Minnesota and @ NW and probably Georgia and Miami to boot. It has very little to do with the players' talent. It has a lot to do with the heart and mind of the coach.