uneblinstu's postgame chatter : vol 17; ed 2 - Bethune-Cookman

Obviously we played horrible.

The careless turnovers are what’s bothering me the most.

The fact that we only lost to Utah by 2 tells me this team can still be decent.

I will remain optimistic that we can figure it out.

Just remember we played horrible against North Dakota and Rider last year in the non con.

Hopefully we’re getting our bad games out of the way early. 

11 hours ago, basketballjones said:

They should be embarrassed after that “effort.”

 

This team isn’t “bad,” (I don’t think anyways…) - but boy do they do some atrocious things. We’re gonna get the brakes beat off of us by Creighton and St. Mary’s.

 

Brice Williams needs to check the attitude/ego at the door. His body language is such shit. It’s clearly all about him out there, and if he doesn’t have it he’s checked out. 
 

Braxton Meah is not a good basketball player, and if he can’t figure out how to be 7’1” with a 20ft wingspan then he will be riding pine. 
 

I asked after the scrimmage, “does this team have mono?” And I’m starting to wonder if either I was onto something, or they all just hate each other. Definitely looks like 2 or 3 different teams depending on the line-ups. And certain guys play different when other guys are on the bench. 
 

Last thing I’m going to say - all I’ve heard is how smart of an offensive mind Fred Hoiberg is - when have you ever said, “damn Fred really dialed up some stuff tonight?” I can’t think of one game. His hot potato 5-out weave offense is so ridiculously easy to guard. These guys never space the floor and let actions happen/develop. No one knows how to draw to and kick, then use it. They never get solid kick-out 3’s (and if they do it’s to the wrong guys). 
 

I’m pretty fed up with what I’ve seen from this crew the first few games. Lazy, uninspired, too-cool-for-school basketball. Zero team chemistry. 
 

Get it figured out fellas 

Agree with most of what you said, especially regarding Brice. He's not as good as he thinks he is and he would be better served IMO if he stopped trying to be the guy and let the game come to him. As for Meah, he looks great when he has an uncontested dunk, otherwise he's just meh.

49 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

 

 

Our "finisher lineup" is Rollie, Connor/Sam, Brice, Juwan, Berke. Yet I'm pretty sure we didn't see that group play together at all in the first 37 minutes. If that's your best group, how does that make sense? I suppose Fred didn't expect a barn burner with Bethune-Cookman. It's pretty clear to me that our best five is that group, with Connor in the 2 spot. Connor only playing 14 minutes in that game is inexcusable. I don't care that he went 0-fer from three. Still had 8 points in those 14 minutes and he's the ONLY player on our team that constantly makes the defense work with his off-ball movement, similar to Keisei. He's also our best shooter - can be hard for a shooter to get into a rhythm coming off the bench playing spot minutes (see Connor's freshman vs. sophomore seasons). I know Fred doesn't want to go small with Gary at the 4 in conference play, but I think we're going to have to.

 

We can still be a good team. Can still go up to Sioux Falls and beat St. Mary's. But we have a lot of work to do. 

Regarding Connor, I would tend to agree but last night I don't believe he was totally locked in (he wasn't alone in this regard either). One glaring example was when he was setting up for a defensive rebound and instead of blocking out the opponent he just grabbed him and threw him aside and then looked dumbfounded when he was called for the foul. I believe he got the hook immediately after that. Just an absolutely stupid/lazy play for someone that knows better.

10 hours ago, cozrulz said:

kind of wonder if we'll see Janowski start getting minutes

We discussed this up in our section as well.  I sort of think that both our freshmen are eyeing redshirt seasons.  Sure, things could change; especially if there are injuries.  Our depth simply won't provide them sufficient minutes at this point.  The first three games seemingly would have been ideal for them to play, and they didn't...sooo, shoot redshirts seem inevitable???

I feel like I felt after the first Minnesota game last year - Does Brice care? Is there locker room cancer? Why are certain players getting the minutes they are?

We figured it out well after that game last year. Hoping we can this year too. And it’s earlier in the season, so it could end up being a plus to meet that moment now.

What did Ulis do to earn his flagrant foul?  I missed it at the arena, and if there was a replay, I missed that as well.  It is extremely rare to see two fouls upheld on one shot.  

3 minutes ago, Vinny said:

I feel like I felt after the first Minnesota game last year - Does Brice care? Is there locker room cancer? Why are certain players getting the minutes they are?

 

We figured it out well after that game last year. Hoping we can this year too. And it’s earlier in the season, so it could end up being a plus to meet that moment now.

The second half of the Minnesota game was maddening. The very next morning I went and picked up a new puppy, then everything took a turn for the better…

8 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

What did Ulis do to earn his flagrant foul?  I missed it at the arena, and if there was a replay, I missed that as well.  It is extremely rare to see two fouls upheld on one shot.  

I think he backed underneath a player who was airborne.

There's still time to figure it out, but we're a long way away. One bit of optimism, we do seem to look OK running sets out of timeouts. I think Fred is trying not to call sets so they can figure it out on their own, but this might be a team that needs more sets for a while. Maybe worth trying. Or maybe that's the plan once the competition ramps up.

There's just a lot that looks really bad on offense right now. Even if we make 8 of those bricked layups and win by 20 last night, I'd still feel the same way today. It doesn't negate the issues with offensive flow. We've been able to see 120 minutes of play against vastly inferior opponents, and it's looked awful against all 3, so the issues are not a one-off. 

We really miss Mast right now. Berke easily has the closest skill set to Mast on the roster. Maybe we need to play smaller and just live with the rebounding issues to get better flow on offense. I don't know that Morgan and Meah will be able to give us anything offensively once we hit B1G play. I don't know that either one of them can score consistently in the post against B1G-quality posts. Teams certainly won't be doubling them ... and I don't know that either of them could pass out of it successfully if they do get doubled.

And if either freshman was doing anything in practice that would put them even with or ahead of the guys who are playing, the freshmen would be playing now. They're both redshirting unless something disastrous happens. The coaches might reconsider if we get blown out by St Mary's and the bluebirds, but I doubt it. I'd imagine we're riding all year with the guys who are playing now. I'd rather see them give Jacobsen a shot if they're going to try to get a spark by putting someone else in the rotation.

24 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

The second half of the Minnesota game was maddening. The very next morning I went and picked up a new puppy, then everything took a turn for the better…

Didn't get to see the game last night and just popped on here this morning. After reading all the posts gotta say I'm a bit concerned. Then I landed on your post. The rescue is bringing our new puppy by in about 45 min. Coincidence? We shall find out.

I think the body language concerns are overblown at this point.  When shots are going in everyone is happy and when they aren’t, it looks bad.   Effort and selfishness haven’t been the major concerns of mine through two games.  At the end of the day you have to take care of the ball and make 3s to win in today’s game. 
 

-Rollie was close to 3:1 assist to turnover ratio and at the top of the PAC 12 in that stat.  So far he has 5 assists to 8 turnovers which has to change. I will put more stock in his two years over two games but no offense looks good with your PG having those stats.  
 

- 3 point shooting. We currently sit at 25% which again is not a winning level.  I don’t hate the shot selection overall but Griffiths/Berke/Gary/Brice have to shoot a better percentage if we are to be successful. I’m more concerned about this one long term than the above point.  Those guys have some track record of good shooting but outside of Brice not a long history of high percentages.  

1 hour ago, hugh42 said:

 

Regarding Connor, I would tend to agree but last night I don't believe he was totally locked in (he wasn't alone in this regard either). One glaring example was when he was setting up for a defensive rebound and instead of blocking out the opponent he just grabbed him and threw him aside and then looked dumbfounded when he was called for the foul. I believe he got the hook immediately after that. Just an absolutely stupid/lazy play for someone that knows better.

I hear ya, but we kinda dealt with that sort of stuff from Keisei also. But overall he was a clear net positive and we needed him in the game to be what we were last year.  Essegian is a better rebounder than Keisei and defensively it's probably a wash between the two. 

Without Keisei, CJ, JL and Mast this team desperately needs some shooting. Connor made nearly as many threes his true freshman year as Keisei did in his final year of college. I think this is just one of those situations where you have to take the bad with the good, and roll with it. 

I watched the whole replay. 
 

Two things:

Griffiths should have been on the court for the last 5 minutes.  The more I watch him the more I like.  I’d start him over Meah and have Berke start at the 5.  He creates all sorts of problems that don’t show up on the stat sheet with his length and speed.  He’s smart, unselfish, and helps the offense flow.  He also has a good understanding of pro spacing.  BC’s run to get back in the game was with him on the bench.  His closeouts on defense are really good and he’s capable of switching everything.  He also led our team in assists playing 13 minutes.  I love Sam but he’s not a PG and GG deserved Sam’s minutes last night.  
 

I like Berke a lot.  He’s smart, skilled, and tough.  We need to give him a ton of reps as the 5 in the half court because he has the passing ability to get it done in Mast’s role.  They also need to green light him from 3 and live with the results.  He’s a good player. 
 

Juwan started being Juwan more this game.  Good to see.  Brice forced it but also played really well alongside Griffiths.  They are a problem together.  
 

Worster was terrible offensively but he’s a great defender.  
 

I guess this week is layup practice. Wtf. 

8 minutes ago, Fullbacksympathy said:

I watched the whole replay. 
 

Two things:

 

Griffiths should have been on the court for the last 5 minutes.  The more I watch him the more I like.  I’d start him over Meah and have Berke start at the 5.  He creates all sorts of problems that don’t show up on the stat sheet with his length and speed.  He’s smart, unselfish, and helps the offense flow.  He also has a good understanding of pro spacing.  BC’s run to get back in the game was with him on the bench.  His closeouts on defense are really good and he’s capable of switching everything.  He also led our team in assists playing 13 minutes.  I love Sam but he’s not a PG and GG deserved Sam’s minutes last night.  
 

I like Berke a lot.  He’s smart, skilled, and tough.  We need to give him a ton of reps as the 5 in the half court because he has the passing ability to get it done in Mast’s role.  They also need to green light him from 3 and live with the results.  He’s a good player. 
 

Juwan started being Juwan more this game.  Good to see.  Brice forced it but also played really well alongside Griffiths.  They are a problem together.  
 

Worster was terrible offensively but he’s a great defender.  
 

I guess this week is layup practice. Wtf. 

I noticed a lot of what you said with Gavin. There were a few times that I thought he could force a shot, but he made the easy pass which led to layups or dunks. The Morgan pass and the fast break one stand out to me. He still seems to be figuring out where to be on offense in the half court right now, but that wasn't just a him thing. He just needs to continue to get better every game. 

With Berke, I agree. I can see the talent and skill, it's all there. It's about piecing it together for him. 

Agree with the Griffiths take.  I also would like to see a few more minutes for Connor. 

Will be interesting to see us move to an  eight or nine man rotation.  Who is out?

11 minutes ago, Huskerpapa said:

Agree with the Griffiths take.  I also would like to see a few more minutes for Connor. 

 

Will be interesting to see us move to an  eight or nine man rotation.  Who is out?

I think it'll be 9 man, and that last spot will probably be Sam and uhlis I think?

3 hours ago, millerhusker said:

I hear ya, but we kinda dealt with that sort of stuff from Keisei also. But overall he was a clear net positive and we needed him in the game to be what we were last year.  Essegian is a better rebounder than Keisei and defensively it's probably a wash between the two. 

Without Keisei, CJ, JL and Mast this team desperately needs some shooting. Connor made nearly as many threes his true freshman year as Keisei did in his final year of college. I think this is just one of those situations where you have to take the bad with the good, and roll with it. 

I agree and don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to have Connor on the roster. Right or wrong, I'm going to hold him to a higher standard.

2 minutes ago, hugh42 said:

 

I agree and don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to have Connor on the roster. Right or wrong, I'm going to hold him to a higher standard.

Yeah, his sloppiness on defense lead Essegian to the bench for good portions of that 2nd half. I did appreciate his clutch play in each of the 1st 2 games, though. It's a tough one to set a standard on one end, this early on, and making sure your team wins the game at the same time. Hoiberg seemed to thread the needle well enough both games.

2 hours ago, Huskerpapa said:

Agree with the Griffiths take.  I also would like to see a few more minutes for Connor. 

 

Will be interesting to see us move to an  eight or nine man rotation.  Who is out?

Here is what I would like to see:

Starters

Rollie

Connor

Brice

Juwan

Berke

Bench

Gavin

Andrew

Ahron

Braxton

Meah is 7’1” and had 4 boards in 20 minutes. That’s not great with how poorly both teams were shooting. Morgan had 3 boards in 11 minutes and at least is a threat to shoot from deep. Those minutes need to swap.  Meah should play roughly the middle 6 minutes of each half and not be out there in crunch time or when we’re trying to set the pace we want.

If you're playing Meah you almost have to start him because you don't want him shooting FTs

Meah wasn’t bad last night. But I don’t understand Fred’s infatuation with him. “I’ve never had a player like him before at any level.”

Yes and you’ve also had really good offenses most of the time and last year’s team was no slouch defensively at all, we were the #1 defense in the country in February with a hobbling Mast and one guard who had no interest in defense and another who tried but didn’t know what he was doing. 
 

Meah kills the offensive flow, he can’t get up and down the floor, he has fewer rebounds than our point guard, and he has blocked 1 shot and has 0 steals. 
 

I really don’t understand. It seems like we are just trying to force this to happen. 
 

Play like last year! Honestly I would like to see us start Brice, Connor, Juwan, Gavin, Berke. Bring Rollie, Morgan, Sam off the bench and Meah and Ulis in case of foul trouble or injuries. 
 

We need a better scoring starting lineup to start games. Right now we are starting basically one guy (Brice) who is a scoring threat from 3. 

Starting Meah mucks up the whole offense and that leads to the stagnant offense throughout the game because it prevents the offense from getting into a rhythm early and then guys get down and start pressing.  For the life of me I can't understand why he starts.  He should be a 5-10 minute a game player, at most.  I would be fine with zero minutes against lesser/smaller teams.  His detrimental role in the starting lineup is compounded by the fact that Rollie and Gary can't shoot.  Hard to believe Hoiberg is starting a lineup with three guys who can't shoot.  Ugh!

Watching basketball is not as fun when the players on your team can't shoot.  Last year any of 4 or 5 guys could go off from the 3 point line on any night (Keisei, Wilcher, Mast, Williams, Lawrence, etc.)  That made if fun--electric! After three games of watching this team the only thing I have felt is annoyed.  

Now that I've got that off my chest, I'll try to find some positives.  Like many above, I do agree there could be some potential in some of these players if the lineups are adjusted.  More minutes for Connor, Gavin and Morgan.  Less minutes for Meah and less for Ulis or Sam. 

My roster is the exact same as Hugh's above, except that battle for the 8th spot is between Sam and Ulis.  As of this point, I have no idea what Ulis brings to the table.  So far all I have seen is a guy who can kind of dribble and is an okay athlete.  He is not a good shooter.  I have not seen any indication is a good creator or distributor.  He is just . . . there.  Does not really bring anything of substance that i have seen so far.  But the season is early so he should have more time to show what he can bring and then it must be  decided between him and Sam for those minutes.  

2 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

Starting Meah mucks up the whole offense and that leads to the stagnant offense throughout the game because it prevents the offense from getting into a rhythm early and then guys get down and start pressing.  For the life of me I can't understand why he starts.  He should be a 5-10 minute a game player, at most.  I would be fine with zero minutes against lesser/smaller teams.  His detrimental role in the starting lineup is compounded by the fact that Rollie and Gary can't shoot.  Hard to believe Hoiberg is starting a lineup with three guys who can't shoot.  Ugh!

 

Watching basketball is not as fun when the players on your team can't shoot.  Last year any of 4 or 5 guys could go off from the 3 point line on any night (Keisei, Wilcher, Mast, Williams, Lawrence, etc.)  That made if fun--electric! After three games of watching this team the only thing I have felt is annoyed.  

 

Now that I've got that off my chest, I'll try to find some positives.  Like many above, I do agree there could be some potential in some of these players if the lineups are adjusted.  More minutes for Connor, Gavin and Morgan.  Less minutes for Meah and less for Ulis or Sam. 

 

My roster is the exact same as Hugh's above, except that battle for the 8th spot is between Sam and Ulis.  As of this point, I have no idea what Ulis brings to the table.  So far all I have seen is a guy who can kind of dribble and is an okay athlete.  He is not a good shooter.  I have not seen any indication is a good creator or distributor.  He is just . . . there.  Does not really bring anything of substance that i have seen so far.  But the season is early so he should have more time to show what he can bring and then it must be  decided between him and Sam for those minutes.  

 

We basically just typed the exact same thing at the same time.