uneblinstu's postgame chatter: vol 13; ed 11 - vs. Michigan St.

14 minutes ago, LNKtrnsplnt said:

I think he’s smart. I was just reiterating the fact that many were calling for Stevenson over Thor on this board and how bad that take has aged.

At that point Stevenson was more productive than Thor with less minutes.  And again, it had zero to do with Stevenson and everything to do with how poorly Thor was playing. And that hasn’t changed. But Stevenson has done nothing to show he deserves minutes as well. 

The fact that we have to argue that a guard shooting less than 30% from the field, with lackluster defense, who has made it to the line 6 times in 270 minutes is needed within the lineup just goes to show we have a long ways to go with the roster. 

4 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

Shamiel hasn’t outplayed the ball rack this season, I’ve said it from day 1 he’s not productive and doesn’t do anything better than any other player other than mope and not be a team player.  The idea that people were saying last year that if he was eligible we would have won at least 2 more games is so laughable it’s on the verge of delusional.  He’s been a wasted scholarship since day 1 and it’s infuriating.

That pass to Yvan today was something I haven't seen in a long time. 

5 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

Shamiel hasn’t outplayed the ball rack this season, I’ve said it from day 1 he’s not productive and doesn’t do anything better than any other player other than mope and not be a team player.  The idea that people were saying last year that if he was eligible we would have won at least 2 more games is so laughable it’s on the verge of delusional.  He’s been a wasted scholarship since day 1 and it’s infuriating.

I have to eat humble pie: I was one of the worst offenders re: Stevenson. I thought he would be one of our best.

4 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

Shamiel hasn’t outplayed the ball rack this season, I’ve said it from day 1 he’s not productive and doesn’t do anything better than any other player other than mope and not be a team player.  The idea that people were saying last year that if he was eligible we would have won at least 2 more games is so laughable it’s on the verge of delusional.  He’s been a wasted scholarship since day 1 and it’s infuriating.

The actual early game stats prove you entirely wrong but he’s been awful since.  Thor has been consistently awful the entire season, tonight included.  

Regardless, problem solved if:

1. Trey

2. Kobe

3. Teddy/Thor

4. Banton/Lat

5. Walker/Yvan

26 minutes ago, big red22 said:

Teddy Allen may score points in bunches, but is his play what Hoiberg is looking for?  I struggle watching his game, it makes me cringe. His lazy turnovers, lazy defense and inability to jump for rebounds are equally as bad as the ugly buckets he grabs in bunches is good.

It's almost what he's looking for. The thing that Teddy can't do is make scoring easier for other guys. Relative to watching Dachon Burke and Kevin Cross shoot from outside it's better.  In theory Bryce McGowens could be the scoring/passing dynamo we are looking for

12 minutes ago, LK1 said:

The actual early game stats prove you entirely wrong but he’s been awful since.  Thor has been consistently awful the entire season, tonight included.  

His stats are pretty garbage, so I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make.  The guy has been the most underwhelming player on the court this year.  And since when does losing ones confidence get you a pass on this forum?  There’s a reason he’s like 10th in the rotation and confidence or not he’s had 2 games where he’s produced and one was McNeese state where ever player we had looked all conference.  It makes no sense why he gets a pass for being crap for all but 2 games.

Just now, Keenan9595 said:

His stats are pretty garbage, so I really don’t understand the point you are trying to make.  The guy has been the most underwhelming player on the court this year.  And since when does losing ones confidence get you a pass on this forum?  There’s a reason he’s like 10th in the rotation and confidence or not he’s had 2 games where he’s produced and one was McNeese state where we thought we were going to compete this year.  It makes no sense why he gets a pass for being crap.

He doesn’t get a pass.  Losing confidence is a terrible trait.  He and Thor both share this trait. 

Neither does Thor get a pass except from delusional people.  

Both of them to this point have been nothing short of terrible.  I want both of them to do great.  
 

Kobe has been serviceable.  He’s playing more.  
 

It’s pretty simple. 

The fact Yvan has added a “baby hook” to his repertoire is huge, & what happened to Sophomore Thor they led us thru the B1G tourney with Trueblood...?

15 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

It's almost what he's looking for. The thing that Teddy can't do is make scoring easier for other guys. Relative to watching Dachon Burke and Kevin Cross shoot from outside it's better.  In theory Bryce McGowens could be the scoring/passing dynamo we are looking for

Good point. 
 

I think as a PG, we may Lebron Bryce by surrounding him with spot up

shooters.  Something like:

Bryce

Keisei

Teddy

Lat

Wilhelm

With that lineup you can basically just let him go to work and score or kick, but we’d struggle on defense.  
 

What I’d to see us is:

1. Trey

2. Keisei 

3. Bryce

4. Teddy

5. Dalano 

^^ with this lineup, any player can initiate the offense and it will always be spread out for driving lanes.  On D, we’d be great on the perimeter and fast enough to recover/rotate when doubling the post. 
 

Every guy in that lineup could exploit a mismatch in isolation, and each is a serviceable 3pt threat with Keisei and Bryce being deadly on the wings.  

Finally made shots, then got killed by turnovers and offensive rebounds

2 minutes ago, LK1 said:

He doesn’t get a pass.  Losing confidence is a terrible trait.  He and Thor both share this trait. 

 

Neither does Thor get a pass except from delusional people.  

 

Both of them to this point have been nothing short of terrible.  I want both of them to do great.  
 

Kobe has been serviceable.  He’s playing more.  
 

It’s pretty simple. 

Apparently it’s not, we had 2 maybe 3 guys play well tonight and the same people come out and shit on the same 2-3 guys rather than analyzing the whole team.  Kobe was serviceable tonight but has been a ghost since GA Tech.  Maybe the better question is if Thor has been so terrible why can’t anyone outplay him other than Mcgowens and teddy when his heads in the game?  And apparently the whole board other than you and 3 others is delusional.  

10 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

Apparently it’s not, we had 2 maybe 3 guys play well tonight and the same people come out and shit on the same 2-3 guys rather than analyzing the whole team.  Kobe was serviceable tonight but has been a ghost since GA Tech.  Maybe the better question is if Thor has been so terrible why can’t anyone outplay him other than Mcgowens and teddy when his heads in the game?  And apparently the whole board other than you and 3 others is delusional.  

Banton doesn’t outplay Thor?  Yvan doesn’t outplay Thor?  Kobe doesn’t outplay Thor?  It is, in fact, simple. 
 

Thor has come off the bench the past three games.  I like him off the bench.  

So I guess Fred and I are delusional.  I’m comfortable with that.  
 

Also, I never shit on Thor. I love Thor.  Read any post I’ve written about him.  But he isn’t producing.  That isn’t even debatable.  

7 minutes ago, Crush78 said:

Finally made shots, then got killed by turnovers and offensive rebounds

How do you figure we got killed on the O boards? By my count it was even 9-9

5 minutes ago, Bugeaters1 said:

How do you figure we got killed on the O boards? By my count it was even 9-9

 

9-9 is correct, but that offensive rebound and put back when we were down 75-69 was a big deal.  The timing of their offensive rebounds were clutch

6 minutes ago, LK1 said:

Thor has come off the bench the past three games.  I like him off the bench.  

 

So I guess Fred and I are delusional.  I’m comfortable with that.  
 

Also, I never shit on Thor. I love Thor.  Read any post I’ve written about him.  But he isn’t producing.  That isn’t even debatable.  

Why is Fred delusional if he’s still giving the guy minutes?  That really doesn’t help your point.  The whole reason he isn’t starting is due to the fact lat at the 5 wasn’t producing and was racking up fouls faster then he could take shots and we tried to get him back to the 4 where he still isn’t producing like he should be.  Which brings me back to what I and so many others have been saying for weeks, we have so few players producing consistently from week to week that it’s a moot point who’s first off the bench right now.  But without fail the only guys that continually get called out are Thor and Yvan, doesn’t make much sense.  It’s not hard to understand my man.  It’s obvious we aren’t going to agree, I just don’t understand how you can go after one guy for not producing so hard when we have about 6-7 guys who all fit that Bill.  

16 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

Why is Fred delusional if he’s still giving the guy minutes?  That really doesn’t help your point.  The whole reason he isn’t starting is due to the fact lat at the 5 wasn’t producing and was racking up fouls faster then he could take shots and we tried to get him back to the 4 where he still isn’t producing like he should be.  Which brings me back to what I and so many others have been saying for weeks, we have so few players producing consistently from week to week that it’s a moot point who’s first off the bench right now.  But without fail the only guys that continually get called out are Thor and Yvan, doesn’t make much sense.  It’s not hard to understand my man.  It’s obvious we aren’t going to agree, I just don’t understand how you can go after one guy for not producing so hard when we have about 6-7 guys who all fit that Bill.  

Stop paraphrasing shit from me that doesn’t exist (you’ve done this several times now).  I never said Thor shouldn’t get *any* minutes.  I said he shouldn’t start, and I was right.  He definitely should get minutes.  He’s a good positional defender and great passer.  If he can shoot, he’s a starter hands down.  You clearly have no idea what my point is.  

I haven’t gone after Thor out of context once.  To be clear, here have been my points:

1.  I thought early in the year Shamiel earned a look over Thor.  The stats in the early games backed me up.  Since then, Shamiel has fallen off a cliff in numbers, effort, and attitude.  
 

2.  I also thought Kobe outplayed Thor after a few games in the rotation and deserved the chance at more minutes than Thor.  That’s what we have now.  

I’m not wrong for either of those thoughts.  Shamiel got more minutes initially and lost them.  Kobe got more minutes and has kept them.  Andre returned so we don’t need Lat at the 5 at all, for good reason.  That’s not my opinion.  That’s directly from Hoiberg press conference.  Want a citation? 
 

I don’t know what we disagree on other than you claim I call out Thor unfairly, which there is absolutely no evidence of from any post I’ve made.
 

I LOVE THOR.  I WANT HIS SHOTS TO GO IN.  HE DESERVES IT. 

But you know what I love most about Thor right now?  He’d be the first to agree to lessen his own minutes until his shot returns because that’s how great of a teammate he truly is.  

15 minutes ago, LK1 said:

Stop paraphrasing shit from me that doesn’t exist (you’ve done this several times now).  I never said Thor shouldn’t get *any* minutes.  I said he shouldn’t start, and I was right.  He definitely should get minutes.  He’s a good positional defender and great passer.  If he can shoot, he’s a starter hands down.  You clearly have no idea what my point is.  

 

I haven’t gone after Thor out of context once.  To be clear, here have been my points:

 

1.  I thought early in the year Shamiel earned a look over Thor.  The stats in the early games backed me up.  Since then, Shamiel has fallen off a cliff in numbers, effort, and attitude.  
 

2.  I also thought Kobe outplayed Thor after a few games in the rotation and deserved the chance at more minutes than Thor.  That’s what we have now.  

 

I’m not wrong for either of those thoughts.  Shamiel got more minutes initially and lost them.  Kobe got more minutes and has kept them.  Andre returned so we don’t need Lat at the 5 at all, for good reason.  That’s not my opinion.  That’s directly from Hoiberg press conference.  Want a citation? 
 

I don’t know what we disagree on other than you claim I call out Thor unfairly, which there is absolutely no evidence of from any post I’ve made.
 

I LOVE THOR.  I WANT HIS SHOTS TO GO IN.  HE DESERVES IT. 

 

But you know what I love most about Thor right now?  He’d be the first to agree to lessen his own minutes until his shot returns because that’s how great of a teammate he truly is.  

 

I haven’t paraphrased anything, is calling him down right terrible not shitting on him?  The only trouble he’s had this year is his shooting, on defense he is constantly having to try and recover for guys when they get caught ball watching or don’t rotate correctly.  Against ohio state he probably had the play of the game when he stopped a 2 on 1 fast break after no one else got back.  That’s not savvy, that’s being a fundamentally sound player with instincts.  
 

All I’ve ever said is that even when he does something beneficial somehow he still gets criticized.  It’s pretty obvious on this team that he isn’t the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd scoring option when he is on the floor but yet he still finds ways to be productive.  And finally, I never implied that Thor should start, I don’t know where you are getting that from.  

Last thing I’m going to say for the night is something I think we can all agree on is that unless we get more from guys not named mcgowens or Allen we aren’t going to do much anyway.  We have a 6’9 point guard who is turning the ball over with very sloppy passing and is missing too many non-contested layups when he drives.  We have two young and raw centers with walker coming back who hasn’t played meaningful minutes in over two years, we have 4 guys that were all 3 point specialists last year who are combining for 1 out of 18 in some games, we don’t run enough and  get caught ball watching on rebounds and probably not having enough athletes to play true man to man D in this league at the moment.  

II’m just frustrated as a fan because we aren’t getting consistent play from our starters or our bench on a game to game basis and right now you could probably rotate your starters outside of mcgowens, Allen and Banton and we probably won’t be seeing anything different.  I would just prefer that if we are going to struggle we are going to have the guy who is going to get steals, rarely turn the ball over, look to make the easy pass and get the ball to the guards quick so we can attempt to run.  I’m sorry if you thought I was going after you, wasn’t my intention.  

2 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

I haven’t paraphrased anything, is calling him down right terrible not shitting on him?  The only trouble he’s had this year is his shooting, on defense he is constantly having to try and recover for guys when they get caught ball watching or don’t rotate correctly.  Against ohio state he probably had the play of the game when he stopped a 2 on 1 fast break after no one else got back.  That’s not savvy, that’s being a fundamentally sound player with instincts.  
 

All I’ve ever said is that even when he does something beneficial somehow he still gets criticized.  It’s pretty obvious on this team that he isn’t the 1st, 2nd or even 3rd scoring option when he is on the floor but yet he still finds ways to be productive.  And finally, I never implied that Thor should start, I don’t know where you are getting that from.  

 

Last thing I’m going to say for the night is something I think we can all agree on is that unless we get more from guys not named mcgowens or Allen we aren’t going to do much anyway.  We have a 6’9 point guard who is turning the ball over with very sloppy passing and is missing too many non-contested layups when he drives.  We have two young and raw centers with walker coming back who hasn’t played meaningful minutes in over two years, we have 4 guys that were all 3 point specialists last year who are combining for 1 out of 18 in some games, we don’t run enough and  get caught ball watching on rebounds and probably not having enough athletes to play true man to man D in this league at the moment.  

 

II’m just frustrated as a fan because we aren’t getting consistent play from our starters or our bench on a game to game basis and right now you could probably rotate your starters outside of mcgowens, Allen and Banton and we probably won’t be seeing anything different.  I would just prefer that if we are going to struggle we are going to have the guy who is going to get steals, rarely turn the ball over, look to make the easy pass and get the ball to the guards quick so we can attempt to run.  I’m sorry if you thought I was going after you, wasn’t my intention.  

First, no worries, but dude...  you gotta stop with the extra emotional wordage about what I’m actually saying.  He *has* played terrible this season.  I never said “he is down right terrible.”  I’m not shitting on him.  I’m observing his play because we’ve all seen him do great things.  That’s just a fact.  I think other posters have been mean/personal about it, and that’s annoying (he’s a great kid), but I’m not one of them.  I never said he’s a terrible player!  I think he’s our most skilled and smartest player, and I expected an amazing year from him in this offense.  In fact, I still do.  I think he’s gonna heat up like he does in practice.  
 

The problem is Fred was relying on Thor to flat out make threes this year because the five out offense absolutely depends on it at the wing.  Because that hasn’t happened, he’s had to do some shuffling and put Kobe at the wing rather than at the backup PG.  Now we have Trey at PG and we might be onto something with iso 5-out since we have no assassins from 3.  
 

If we ran a 1-4 high like MSU, Thor would be absolutely invaluable.  But we don’t, and until he regains his shot he’s a liability in a 5-out offense, because he cannot make up for his lack of outside shot with isolation buckets.  
 

No one is pulling for the guy more than me. He’s one of my favorite Huskers ever.  I don’t think anyone who feels that way is delusional, and I’m sure there’s some consensus there.  

16 minutes ago, LK1 said:

First, no worries, but dude...  you gotta stop with the extra emotional wordage about what I’m actually saying.  He *has* played terrible this season.  I never said “he is down right terrible.”  I’m not shitting on him.  I’m observing his play because we’ve all seen him do great things.  That’s just a fact.  I think other posters have been mean/personal about it, and that’s annoying (he’s a great kid), but I’m not one of them.  I never said he’s a terrible player!  I think he’s our most skilled and smartest player, and I expected an amazing year from him in this offense.  In fact, I still do.  I think he’s gonna heat up like he does in practice.  
 

The problem is Fred was relying on Thor to flat out make threes this year because the five out offense absolutely depends on it at the wing.  Because that hasn’t happened, he’s had to do some shuffling and put Kobe at the wing rather than at the backup PG.  Now we have Trey at PG and we might be onto something with iso 5-out since we have no assassins from 3.  
 

If we ran a 1-4 high like MSU, Thor would be absolutely invaluable.  But we don’t, and until he regains his shot he’s a liability in a 5-out offense, because he cannot make up for his lack of outside shot with isolation buckets.  
 

No one is pulling for the guy more than me. He’s one of my favorite Huskers ever.  I don’t think anyone who feels that way is delusional, and I’m sure there’s some consensus there.  

Sorry, i read nothing short of terrible and while juggling posting back to you and answering emails I wrote the wrong thing, my crow to eat for trying to multi-task.  One thing we might need to do is shorten up the rotation a bit, we’re running close to 10 guys with walker coming back and I don’t know how we are supposed to get any sort of cohesion when we are throwing all of these extra subs in randomly.  For example with shamiel the last few games, he goes in for maybe a minute and then doesn’t play again, I don’t see how that is beneficial unless we are having too many guys gassed at once.  Maybe play lakes, but more so as a shooter where we have a set play for him.  Little changes like that might help.

1 hour ago, Keenan9595 said:

Apparently it’s not, we had 2 maybe 3 guys play well tonight and the same people come out and shit on the same 2-3 guys rather than analyzing the whole team.  Kobe was serviceable tonight but has been a ghost since GA Tech.  Maybe the better question is if Thor has been so terrible why can’t anyone outplay him other than Mcgowens and teddy when his heads in the game?  And apparently the whole board other than you and 3 others is delusional.  

How much Krona is Thor paying you per post?

Thor has out played Banton this year? 

Yes, I do think you are delusional when you are evaluating his play. Stats don’t lie. And he may be the only option we have. So again, that says a heck of a lot about our depth. 

6 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

How much Krona is Thor paying you per post?

 

Thor has out played Banton this year? 

 

Yes, I do think you are delusional when you are evaluating his play. Stats don’t lie. And he may be the only option we have. So again, that says a heck of a lot about our depth. 

Banton has been having trouble the last few games, his confidence looks off and he’s making errant passes, turning the ball over a lot and missing shots he wasn’t at the beginning of the season.  I’m not the only one who’s worried about him going forward, especially running the point.  When we played our best tonight was when it was Teddy, trey, Thor, Kobe and either lat or yvan, those stats don’t lie.  I find it delusional you can’t see how the offense works better with him in it.  I’ve never argued our depth, I think we have about 5-6 one trick ponies who aren’t producing or playing their roles correctly.  You and I obviously look for and notice different things on the court.  

4 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

Banton has been having trouble the last few games, his confidence looks off and he’s making errant passes, turning the ball over a lot and missing shots he wasn’t at the beginning of the season.  I’m not the only one who’s worried about him going forward, especially running the point.  When we played our best tonight was when it was Teddy, trey, Thor, Kobe and either lat or yvan, those stats don’t lie.  I find it delusional you can’t see how the offense works better with him in it.  I’ve never argued our depth, I think we have about 5-6 one trick ponies who aren’t producing or playing their roles correctly.  You and I obviously look for and notice different things on the court.  

That may or may not be true...I have no idea on how the +- looked tonight but I can tell you I’m going to go ahead and say the guy averaging 13/7/5 is having a better year than the guy averaging 3/3/1. 

17 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

That may or may not be true...I have no idea on how the +- looked tonight but I can tell you I’m going to go ahead and say the guy averaging 13/7/5 is having a better year than the guy averaging 3/3/1. 

I checked his game log if you have another source I’d definitely like to compare but it has him going negative 5 of the last 6 games 3 of them in the double digits.  I’m just wanting to have a game where we have all three guards being productive, I can’t think of a game yet where that can be said.  I could be wrong though.