Who ya got? Pitchford or White?; Muhleisen or Trueblood?

[Norm Peterson]

Walt vs. White:

 

Walt was a big man whose primary job ended up being perimeter shooting and defending the low post.

 

White isn't as tall but may end up being asked to fill a similar role on a team that doesn't have an athletic big like Walt.

 

At his best, Walt was 41% from beyond the arc as a sophomore, contributing 9.3 ppg; at his worst, he was 29% from three for his junior year, contributing 7.2 ppg.   Both years, he grabbed 4 1/2 boards/game but needed 4 more minutes of playing time per game as a junior to reach that figure.

 

Granted, we haven't seen as much from White to make a complete comparison.  We're forecasting ahead rather than using hindsight and comparing the stats they both put up.

 

I don't expect White to be quite as good from behind the line as Walt's best year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he snares as many rebounds.  And contributes more points.  And, when asked to defend the low post, I doubt Andrew will do any worse than Walt did last year.  Moreover, I see more ability with Andrew to put the ball on the floor and drive it than I did with Walt.

 

Had Walt returned for his senior season, he would probably not be as good as his sophomore year nor as bad as his junior year.  If you had the choice, though, which one would you start?  Walt as a senior or Andrew now?  And "both" is not one of the options.

 

 

Jake vs. Johnny:

 

I brought this up in the post-game following the exhibition to illustrate how much the talent level has improved under Miles. 

 

Jake started at point as a true freshman.  I think he started right away from game one.  Given the roster we had at the time, Jake was very good.  Good enough to start from day 1 on a team that also saw significant contributions from a walk-on (Ross Buckendahl) and a football player (Wilson Thomas.)

 

Jake's primary offensive weapon was his ability to penetrate and finish at the rim.  He was tall for a guard and had reasonable quicks.  He was not a great shooter, hitting 28.9% from deep.  Jake was listed on the Husker roster as being 6'4" and 190#.

 

Johnny Trueblood is also listed at 6'4" and has about a 5# advantage on Jake.  Johnny's primary offensive weapon also appears to be his ability to penetrate.  Granted, we haven't seen him do it against good competition (and probably won't.)  But you're going to have to kind of imagine.

 

As between these two homegrown Huskers (one a scholarship recruit; the other a walk-on), which do you think looks better as a true freshman?

 

(Note:  "There's no real way for us to compare" is NOT an option.  If you want that as an option, go start your own poll.)

[uneblinstu]

White. I'll just say this...Nebraska played it's best game of the year last year when Pitchford got kicked out of the game. That one's not even close.

[huskerbaseball13]

White...as I think he will be a better player and won't be a headcase.  I would have to say Jake over Trueblood and that's probably not close at this point...but I have not seen much of Trueblood.  Jake averaged double digits as a freshman.  He just wasn't the same after his injury. 

[bball23]

Most of us know that Walt's biggest issue sometimes was his mental toughness.  I think White has it.  White is my choice.

 

Jake M. was a darn good player for us.  The injury at KU really hurt him as he never quite was the same player.  I'm excited to see if Johnny T. can help us somehow down the road whether that be this year or in the future. 

 

We've had some pretty decent walk-ons in the past.  Verlander and Beranek come to mind first.  I would love to see if Johnny can continue to grove his shot and be a 3 point shooter for us.  If anything maybe they at least have to respect him and it opens up driving lanes.

[Norm Peterson]

White...as I think he will be a better player and won't be a headcase.  I would have to say Jake over Trueblood and that's probably not close at this point...but I have not seen much of Trueblood.  Jake averaged double digits as a freshman.  He just wasn't the same after his injury. 

Jake was a good player on a very bad team.

 

We won 13 games his freshman season.  We won only 1 road game in 9 tries.  We lost at home to Sam Houston State.

 

We had significant contributions that season from walk-ons (Ross Buckendahl) and a football player.  And we brought in some of the worst juco transfers in memory (Kedrick Ford and Justin Boeker.)

 

I don't think Jake starts on this squad.  Not only that, I don't think he sees significant time on this squad.

 

Trueblood won't see significant time on this squad either.   But, he averaged more than 23 ppg his senior year whereas I think Jake averaged about 16 ppg in HS his senior year, but I might be off on that.  True, you can't compare Class A with Class B.  So, let's just say for comparison that Johnny's scoring average was comparable to Mike Gesell's. 

 

I think Trueblood and Muhleisen are pretty comparable players, actually.  Jake might have been a bit better but I think they're comparable enough that it's at least a question.  I don't think Jake wins this one going away.

[Handy Johnson]

No offense to Trueblood, but he and Jake shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence. As for Pitchford and White, it looks like A III has a better all-around game and isn't afraid to take it to the rack rather than just jack 3's 

[Red Don]

White!  I don't think Walt's heart (or head) was in it last year; & I think there is a lot more upside with Andrew.

 

No Idea, because I'm not a long-time (read 'long-suffering') Husker BB follower (do Not read 'Not a Fan') having been following Hoops since Miles has been HC.  So I don't know about Jake M.  A vote is required on both questions to participate so I voted for Johnny Trueblood; I think being surrounded by the talent in this class will result in his playing up to his maximize ability.

[hskr4life]

White!  I don't think Walt's heart (or head) was in it last year; & I think there is a lot more upside with Andrew.

 

No Idea, because I'm not a long-time (read 'long-suffering') Husker BB follower (do Not read 'Not a Fan') having been following Hoops since Miles has been HC.  So I don't know about Jake M.  A vote is required on both questions to participate so I voted for Johnny Trueblood; I think being surrounded by the talent in this class will result in his playing up to his maximize ability.

 

This is an interesting way to look at it.  I never thought of it this way.  Though the JM era was a little before my time, the way it sounds, JM was a starter on a bad team.  I never thought of competition level would be a factor, but it certainly is an interesting idea to think about.

[HB]

 

White!  I don't think Walt's heart (or head) was in it last year; & I think there is a lot more upside with Andrew.

 

No Idea, because I'm not a long-time (read 'long-suffering') Husker BB follower (do Not read 'Not a Fan') having been following Hoops since Miles has been HC.  So I don't know about Jake M.  A vote is required on both questions to participate so I voted for Johnny Trueblood; I think being surrounded by the talent in this class will result in his playing up to his maximize ability.

 

This is an interesting way to look at it.  I never thought of it this way.  Though the JM era was a little before my time, the way it sounds, JM was a starter on a bad team.  I never thought of competition level would be a factor, but it certainly is an interesting idea to think about.

 

 

Jake was more than just a starter on a bad team.  He was a starter as a true freshman in a good basketball league and held his own.  While he was never the same athletically after his injury, he was still a starter for  most of the rest of his career.   Proven commodity vs. a walk-on who is currently at the end of the bench.  

[uneblinstu]

 

 

White!  I don't think Walt's heart (or head) was in it last year; & I think there is a lot more upside with Andrew.

 

No Idea, because I'm not a long-time (read 'long-suffering') Husker BB follower (do Not read 'Not a Fan') having been following Hoops since Miles has been HC.  So I don't know about Jake M.  A vote is required on both questions to participate so I voted for Johnny Trueblood; I think being surrounded by the talent in this class will result in his playing up to his maximize ability.

 

This is an interesting way to look at it.  I never thought of it this way.  Though the JM era was a little before my time, the way it sounds, JM was a starter on a bad team.  I never thought of competition level would be a factor, but it certainly is an interesting idea to think about.

 

 

Jake was more than just a starter on a bad team.  He was a starter as a true freshman in a good basketball league and held his own.  While he was never the same athletically after his injury, he was still a starter for  most of the rest of his career.   Proven commodity vs. a walk-on who is currently at the end of the bench.  

 

This is where I'm at with it, too. I don't really care how bad the team was, he scored the fourth most points, second in assists and third in three point shooting by a freshman in school history up to that point.  I don't think JT is at that level yet. 

[REDZONEDAN]

I'd take Jake.  I agree with others as he was never the same after his injury.

[Norm Peterson]

It's truly unfortunate that Jake got hurt because, as everyone else has said, he never got his swagger back after that.  Just wasn't the same player.

 

Having said that, as I watched Johnny Trueblood in the exhibition, a lot of things about his game reminded me of Jake.  Except maybe just a little bit moreso, a  little more "Jake" than what Jake was.

 

In other words, while Jake's primary offensive weapon was to dribble drive (which is how he was injured) he mostly drove with a strong right hand dribble the way you've seen Benny do it here recently.  But Jake didn't have much change-of-direction in his arsenal.

 

Johnny demonstrated a nice crossover dribble and I've seen him in HS show the ability to finish at the rim with either hand.

 

Jake was never much of a jump shooter.  And that's been Johnny's weakness, too.  But he hit a corner jumper from just inside the arc during the exhibition that revealed a pretty good looking jump shot.  He also made a couple of nifty passes.

 

Considering what Jake did as far as freshman numbers go, it's hard to say you wouldn't take him over Johnny, just on the basis of the numbers he put up.  But Johnny comported himself really well during what limited action he saw in the scrimmage.  Well enough that I think this is a realistic comparison and question to ask.

[HB]

 

 

Considering what Jake did as far as freshman numbers go, it's hard to say you wouldn't take him over Johnny, just on the basis of the numbers he put up.  But Johnny comported himself really well during what limited action he saw in the scrimmage.  Well enough that I think this is a realistic comparison and question to ask.

 

From my perspective, a few minutes against a D2 team is way too small of a sample size to make any such comparison.  It happens every year where kids look OK, or even better than OK, against inferior competition.   And then they get exposed when the true level at which they are trying to play happens.   Jake competed and held up over several years at the highest levels of competition, e.g. against Kansas.  I'd love it if Johnny turned out to be that good, but a few garbage time minutes against a D2 team doesn't tell us much in that regard.  And just eyeballing it, I didn't see the same size and athleticism as Jake,  not that I'm an expert.  

[HF_]

JTB COULD end up being better, who knows...but seems a bit strange, perhaps disrespectful to suggest he might be better than Jake after watching him for 4 minutes in an exhibition game.

Can't wait for the season to really start so we can talk about what's happening instead of fan fiction hypotheticals.

[Norm Peterson]

JTB COULD end up being better, who knows...but seems a bit strange, perhaps disrespectful to suggest he might be better than Jake after watching him for 4 minutes in an exhibition game.

Can't wait for the season to really start so we can talk about what's happening instead of fan fiction hypotheticals.

1.  You're assuming an awful lot to say that I've only seen JTB play for 4 minutes in an exhibition game.  And your assumptions would not be correct in that regard.

2.  The point about who might be better grew out of a larger discussion about the talent level in the program having increased by so much.  The point wasn't made in a vacuum just for the sake of dissing Jake.  It was part of a larger discussion.

3.  I have always maintained and will continue to maintain that you don't need to watch a guy a lot to get a decent sense of whether or not he has game and, if so, how much.

4.  I think the comparison between the two players is a natural one because: a) they're both guards; from Nebraska; c) about the same size; d) with similar strengths and weaknesses in their offensive games.

5.  I realize it's tough to compare a guy who started as a true freshman on a bad team 14 years ago with a guy who's probably not going to see many minutes at all on what now might or might not be a pretty decent team.  But it's offered for the sake of discussion, so either make the comparison based on 4 minutes of footage or don't make any comparison.

[Norm Peterson]

If you want to see a sample move from JTB, watch the video originally linked by Dimes in the post-game thread.  It's toward the end.  Notice the pump fake getting one defender airborne, then a left-handed drive, cross-over dribble fake, and finish with left hand.  Niiiice.

 

 

Also, BTW, I was tempted to include a 3rd comparison.  The lineup differences between our probable starters now and our starters last year would be White and Morrow in place of Pitchford and Rivers.  I already compared Pitchford to White in the poll above (along with Jake and Johnny.)  I didn't bother to ask about Rivers vs. Morrow.  I figured that one was too self-evident.  Otherwise, we still have Benny, Tai and Shavon.

 

Otherwise, I think it's very telling about the voting so far where it's a much closer question between Jake and Johnny (in spite of people saying that the comparison is preposterous) than between Andrew and Walt.  Practically no one has taken Walt over Andrew at this juncture.  That says a lot.  JTB can garner 30% of the vote in polling against Jake Muhleisen but Walt can't even get over 5% against Andrew White.

 

Hmmmmm.

[hskr4life]

 

JTB COULD end up being better, who knows...but seems a bit strange, perhaps disrespectful to suggest he might be better than Jake after watching him for 4 minutes in an exhibition game.

Can't wait for the season to really start so we can talk about what's happening instead of fan fiction hypotheticals.

1.  You're assuming an awful lot to say that I've only seen JTB play for 4 minutes in an exhibition game.  And your assumptions would not be correct in that regard.

2.  The point about who might be better grew out of a larger discussion about the talent level in the program having increased by so much.  The point wasn't made in a vacuum just for the sake of dissing Jake.  It was part of a larger discussion.

3.  I have always maintained and will continue to maintain that you don't need to watch a guy a lot to get a decent sense of whether or not he has game and, if so, how much.

4.  I think the comparison between the two players is a natural one because: a) they're both guards; from Nebraska; c) about the same size; d) with similar strengths and weaknesses in their offensive games.

5.  I realize it's tough to compare a guy who started as a true freshman on a bad team 14 years ago with a guy who's probably not going to see many minutes at all on what now might or might not be a pretty decent team.  But it's offered for the sake of discussion, so either make the comparison based on 4 minutes of footage or don't make any comparison.

 

 

One thing that you have to ask yourself, and I think Norm is hinting at it (I could be wrong) is are you comparing the two with their certain situations?  Because they are different.

 

Put Jake on this team as a frosh and does he get the PT?  Put JTB on that team as a frosh and could he realistically challenge for some PT?  Those are the questions you need to ask.

[Dead Dog Alley]

 

 

JTB COULD end up being better, who knows...but seems a bit strange, perhaps disrespectful to suggest he might be better than Jake after watching him for 4 minutes in an exhibition game.

Can't wait for the season to really start so we can talk about what's happening instead of fan fiction hypotheticals.

1.  You're assuming an awful lot to say that I've only seen JTB play for 4 minutes in an exhibition game.  And your assumptions would not be correct in that regard.

2.  The point about who might be better grew out of a larger discussion about the talent level in the program having increased by so much.  The point wasn't made in a vacuum just for the sake of dissing Jake.  It was part of a larger discussion.

3.  I have always maintained and will continue to maintain that you don't need to watch a guy a lot to get a decent sense of whether or not he has game and, if so, how much.

4.  I think the comparison between the two players is a natural one because: a) they're both guards; from Nebraska; c) about the same size; d) with similar strengths and weaknesses in their offensive games.

5.  I realize it's tough to compare a guy who started as a true freshman on a bad team 14 years ago with a guy who's probably not going to see many minutes at all on what now might or might not be a pretty decent team.  But it's offered for the sake of discussion, so either make the comparison based on 4 minutes of footage or don't make any comparison.

 

 

One thing that you have to ask yourself, and I think Norm is hinting at it (I could be wrong) is are you comparing the two with their certain situations?  Because they are different.

 

Put Jake on this team as a frosh and does he get the PT?  Put JTB on that team as a frosh and could he realistically challenge for some PT?  Those are the questions you need to ask.

 

 

How about Jake as a freshman vs. Benny or Tai the last few years?  The stats aren't close but the teams were completely different, so there wouldn't have been as many opportunities on offense. Also it depends on what you want to do defensively as to who you take. I'd probably go with Jake.

 

As to Jake vs. Johnny, if you look at the individual skills of each it appears that Jake would have a small marginal advantage in a lot of areas.  But a lot of times it's the margins that determine how good someone is going to be.  JM is probably slightly quicker, slightly stronger, it is pretty close as to shooting and driving skills, JM might have an edge as to court vision and passing skills. A lot of areas would probably be pretty close but when it's all added up, one was a double figure scorer as a freshman and the other will have to fight to get minutes.

[Chuck Taylor]

Jake vs. Johnny. Absurb comparison. I really can't believe this is a topic, based on 4 minutes of an exhibition game. Jake was a player, and as others said, never quite recovered from the injury. Still, his career will dwarf Johnny's.

[Dead Dog Alley]

It's truly unfortunate that Jake got hurt because, as everyone else has said, he never got his swagger back after that.  Just wasn't the same player.

 

Having said that, as I watched Johnny Trueblood in the exhibition, a lot of things about his game reminded me of Jake.  Except maybe just a little bit moreso, a  little more "Jake" than what Jake was.

 

In other words, while Jake's primary offensive weapon was to dribble drive (which is how he was injured) he mostly drove with a strong right hand dribble the way you've seen Benny do it here recently.  But Jake didn't have much change-of-direction in his arsenal.

 

Johnny demonstrated a nice crossover dribble and I've seen him in HS show the ability to finish at the rim with either hand.

 

Jake was never much of a jump shooter.  And that's been Johnny's weakness, too.  But he hit a corner jumper from just inside the arc during the exhibition that revealed a pretty good looking jump shot.  He also made a couple of nifty passes.

 

Considering what Jake did as far as freshman numbers go, it's hard to say you wouldn't take him over Johnny, just on the basis of the numbers he put up.  But Johnny comported himself really well during what limited action he saw in the scrimmage.  Well enough that I think this is a realistic comparison and question to ask.

 

Here's another comparison, vs. a walk on who contributed a lot: Trueblood vs. Velander.  If you looked at who was better at what at a similar stage in their careers, Trueblood would probably have an edge with regard to everything, with the exception of shooting the three.  But the ability to shoot the three can be a big role and can make someone a contributor who otherwise wouldn't be. 

[Norm Peterson]

Truly, the point of the comparison between Jake and Johnny was not to say that Jake isn't any good or to throw any shade on Jake. Rather, the point was to show how significantly improved our recruiting is. I believe there is a lot bigger difference between Johnny and Glynn then there is between Johnny and Jake.

[Huskerpapa]

I'd take Jake in a heartbeat, especially prior to his broken hip.  And I will also take Andrew in a heartbeat, he has a better all around game.

[jimmykc]

Here is a short poll for ya: which one do you think is better, Yesterday or tomorrow?

[HuskerFever]

Here is a short poll for ya: which one do you think is better, Yesterday or tomorrow?

 

I would prefer 2 Morrows.

[Handy Johnson]

Jake vs. Johnny. Absurb comparison. I really can't believe this is a topic, based on 4 minutes of an exhibition game. Jake was a player, and as others said, never quite recovered from the injury. Still, his career will dwarf Johnny's.

Correct, any one taking Johnny over Jake probably never saw Muhlheisen play.