If Miles is Fired This Year

[dustystehl]

I'm genuinely curious as to why people think Miles resigning/leaving is greater than or equal to the odds of him being fired. Are things in his personal life factoring into that train of thought? Miles has said he likes it here and wants to coach here (but Urban Meyer said the same things about Ohio State), so just wanting peoples' thoughts on this.

[The Polish Rifle]

1 hour ago, avfan2121 said:

I often see comments like this. I think it's important to remember that every school in the conference (and country) has bigger budgets and better facilities than ever before.

“The facilities are ridiculous. You can make a case that they are the best in the league. Fans also show up – because there’s nothing else to do in Lincoln.” – Big Ten head coach 

 

B1G basketball coaches ranked our facilities #2 in the league this past fall.

[Handy Johnson]

Winning cures all ills... no one ever bitched about the Devaney when we went to 4 straight NCAA Tourneys. Conversely, if you think facilities/money translate directly to success, well the examples to the contrary are too numerous to mention. Let's sign Tim up long term, and quit wetting our finger to see which way the wind blows.

[avfan2121]

28 minutes ago, The Polish Rifle said:

“The facilities are ridiculous. You can make a case that they are the best in the league. Fans also show up – because there’s nothing else to do in Lincoln.” – Big Ten head coach 

 

B1G basketball coaches ranked our facilities #2 in the league this past fall.

From the same article you pulled the quote from:

History/Tradition-12

Media Exposure-11
Game Atmosphere-6

Budget/Resources-7

Recruiting Base-13

Facilities-2

Selling Pros-12

Admission Requirement-3

Overall-9

 

So combining budget and facilities were aren't anything too special. Combine that with the other rankings, as I mentioned in my other comments, and there really isn't much reason to expect to be a winning program in the Big Ten. I'm guessing most high level players would rather play for a winning, historic program than one with a nice practice gym and locker room.

Edited January 24, 2019 by avfan2121

[huskerbaseball13]

24 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

Winning cures all ills... no one ever bitched about the Devaney when we went to 4 straight NCAA Tourneys. Conversely, if you think facilities/money translate directly to success, well the examples to the contrary are too numerous to mention. Let's sign Tim up long term, and quit wetting our finger to see which way the wind blows.

 

 

Why would you sign up a guy long term right now who doesn't deserve it?  Then NU is stuck with another large bill when /if he's fired. Sure, if this year ends up being a success then lock him up. If not, it does not make much sense keeping him around after Moos extended him just 1 year during the offseason.

 

Nobody is saying facilities/money is the only thing you need for success.  But, imagine how terrible we would be if Miles did not have a practice facility or the PBA to work with.  We would still be the Rutgers of the Big Ten.  The facility upgrades and resources put us on a more even playing field with other P5 programs. More so than ever before.  Unfortunately, we still don't have much to show for it in terms of postseason success.   

Edited January 24, 2019 by huskerbaseball13

[The Polish Rifle]

3 minutes ago, avfan2121 said:

From the same article you pulled the quote from:

History/Tradition-12

Media Exposure-11
Game Atmosphere-6

Budget/Resources-7

Recruiting Base-13

Facilities-2

Selling Pros-12

Admission Requirement-3

Overall-9

 

So combining budget and facilities were aren't anything too special. Combine that with the other rankings, as I mentioned in my other comments, and there really isn't much reason to expect to be a winning program in the Big Ten. I'm guessing most high level players would rather play for a winning, historic program than one with a nice practice gym and locker room.

Top third of the big 10 if we combine those - that's pretty special....Look i'm not expecting us to compete for national titles. But if you are in the top third of the big 10 in facilities and resources, and sell out a 15,000 person arena - the bar should be set higher than making the tournament once in a blue moon and never winning a game once we get there. If Iowa St can do it, KState can do it, Iowa can do it, Missouri can do it, then we most definitely can do it. 

[avfan2121]

7 minutes ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Top third of the big 10 if we combine those - that's pretty special....Look i'm not expecting us to compete for national titles. But if you are in the top third of the big 10 in facilities and resources, and sell out a 15,000 person arena - the bar should be set higher than making the tournament once in a blue moon and never winning a game once we get there. If Iowa St can do it, KState can do it, Iowa can do it, Missouri can do it, then we most definitely can do it. 

Not trying to move the goalposts, but people are always quick to point at facilities, resources, etc for reasons we should be winning more. Just saying we aren't a mile ahead of the other programs in those areas like they think. And I doubt those are of top importance to recruits/players.

Edited January 24, 2019 by avfan2121

[huskerbaseball13]

11 minutes ago, avfan2121 said:

From the same article you pulled the quote from:

History/Tradition-12

Media Exposure-11
Game Atmosphere-6

Budget/Resources-7

Recruiting Base-13

Facilities-2

Selling Pros-12

Admission Requirement-3

Overall-9

 

So combining budget and facilities were aren't anything too special. Combine that with the other rankings, as I mentioned in my other comments, and there really isn't much reason to expect to be a winning program in the Big Ten. I'm guessing most high level players would rather play for a winning, historic program than one with a nice practice gym and locker room.

 

I wonder if KSU/ISU fans think that way?

 

KSU has not been some powerhouse recruiting juggernaut under Weber yet they have gone to 4 NCAA tournaments under him one in which included an elite 8 run.  Obviously Weber did not have the rebuild Miles did but on paper, Miles recruiting has been equal if not better counting the transfers.  I fail to see why Nebraska can't replicate the success that ISU/KSU has had.  Quite honestly, if we should not expect to be a winning program then we should go back to finding a coach for Doc Sadler salary and use the rest for football.  Or, cut the program and start a hockey team.   

[The Polish Rifle]

1 minute ago, avfan2121 said:

And I doubt those are of top importance to recruits/players

Player lounges, full arenas, sparkling locker rooms, training tables - absolutely are these a huge part of a players decision. 

[avfan2121]

1 minute ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Player lounges, full arenas, sparkling locker rooms, training tables - absolutely are these a huge part of a players decision. 

And yet the top players keep going to the top programs every year.

[avfan2121]

2 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

 

I wonder if KSU/ISU fans think that way?

 

KSU has not been some powerhouse recruiting juggernaut under Weber yet they have gone to 4 NCAA tournaments under him one in which included an elite 8 run.  Obviously Weber did not have the rebuild Miles did but on paper, Miles recruiting has been equal if not better counting the transfers.  I fail to see why Nebraska can't replicate the success that ISU/KSU has had.  Quite honestly, if we should not expect to be a winning program then we should go back to finding a coach for Doc Sadler salary and use the rest for football.  Or, cut the program and start a hockey team.   

Not saying we can't expect more out of the program. My original points was we need to stop saying we should be a better program simply because we have a nice practice gym and arena.

[hhcmatt]

5 minutes ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Player lounges, full arenas, sparkling locker rooms, training tables - absolutely are these a huge part of a players decision. 

 

If we have the best facilities and this is a huge part of recruiting why don't we have any 5 star players?

[huskerbaseball13]

4 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

If we have the best facilities and this is a huge part of recruiting why don't we have any 5 star players?

 

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/isaac-copeland-1040

 

We start four players that were 4* according to rivals and one that was considered a 5*. 

 

If facilities don't matter...why do football programs and basketball programs take the time and money to invest in them? There would be no use if recruits don't care. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by huskerbaseball13

[avfan2121]

Just now, huskerbaseball13 said:

 

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/isaac-copeland-1040

They guy who said what sold him is how Miles showed him how he would be used compared to how he had been used at Georgetown?

[Mr. Red]

3 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Sure, coaches evolve. Not sure why a coach would change with greater success. Success is usually an indication that what you're doing is working.  Failure is what usually provokes someone to make changes.

 

But my issue is that we have this same discussion every single year.  And every year, the people who want to see Miles gone make the same complaints.

 

We lose 4 senior contributors off this team, including a couple of the best players we've ever had.  We might have some decent recruits coming in but you have to figure we're going to backslide a bit next year.

 

Who knows? We might not make the dance this year, in which case this discussion is academic. On the other hand, we might not only make the dance but also win a game there for the first time in program history.  But, if we do have NCAA tourney success this year, are we just putting off the annual "fire Miles" discussion for a year?

 

I honestly want to know: If he's the same Tim Miles you wanted fired a year or two years ago, why would anything change just because he wins a game in the dance?

1

I know this is a stretch so be easy on me...

When I ponder this argument, I think of those "disaster couples" that have a bad marriage, but decide to get pregnant because they think that having a baby will save or "fix" their marriage. I'm sure many of you have seen examples of this.

Does the wonderful, joyful experience of having a baby have the chance to change a person's life for the better?  Yes.  But the underlying relationship issues are still there regardless of the great experience you just had.

 

Most of the time (in my anecdotal opinion)  these relationships still end in divorce

 

[huskerbaseball13]

1 minute ago, avfan2121 said:

They guy who said what sold him is how Miles showed him how he would be used compared to how he had been used at Georgetown?

 

I don't know what this means.  But, nobody is saying facilities are the end all be all.  But, they matter.  Quite a bit.  If they didn't...there would be no arms race in football/basketball to build the next best thing. 

[The Polish Rifle]

2 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

If we have the best facilities and this is a huge part of recruiting why don't we have any 5 star players?

If were being technical, wasn't Cope one? and I don't think the resources and facilities make us more attractive to guys that have offers from Duke, NC, KU - but those aren't who we are competing with. Those facilities have gotten us 4 stars and given us the talent to compete with Iowa, Wisconsin, KState, ect. 

[Nebrasketball1979]

41 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

If we have the best facilities and this is a huge part of recruiting why don't we have any 5 star players?

 

We clearly haven't shaken enough couch cushions to find the $100K necessary to get them here.  

[hhcmatt]

1 minute ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

 

https://n.rivals.com/content/prospects/2014/isaac-copeland-1040

 

Touche. If you ask Cope why he came here facilities are either lower or not on the list. Quite certain there is an article that already has this answer floating around.

Having good facilities is a reason for guys to not cross Nebraska off the list.

[nebrasketball10]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Interesting you should bring up Doc.  Funny thing about that is that a lot of the complaints I've heard levelled against Miles were also levelled against Doc and Barry and Danny and Moe and ...

 

And a lot of it by, I think, the same people.

 

Nobody ever develops. Except when they do. But in those cases, you can't give credit to the coach because those players would have developed anyway. But other than those players who do develop, nobody ever develops, and that's the coach's fault.

 

Our offense is sluggish. We run the weave. Can we please not run the weave anymore? That's so middle school.  We need to be up-tempo. No one wants to play slow-it-down ball.  You want recruits? We need to increase the tempo. Oh, but now we're giving up more offensive rebounds. Can't we slow it down? I'd rather win 45-40 than lose 90-88. And maybe run the weave once in awhile (kidding, no one ever said that.)

 

People who think Tim Miles runs a middle school offense aren't going to suddenly think he's running a sophisticated NBA-style offense next year if he happens to be retained.

 

I just don't want to hear the same shit a year from now, that's all.

 

I don’t think I’ve ever been on the fire Miles wagon, and I’m not certain I’m there now. I do not think he is the coach who can get us where I want us to go... so from them at sense, maybe I’m heading there. I’ve met him a number of times both at events and social occasions, and he seems like a super nice guy. I would definitely prefer he succeed. 

 

I worked with Doc while he was here... real salt of the earth kind of guy. I was definitely a Doc apologist. 

[Handy Johnson]

1 hour ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

 

 

Why would you sign up a guy long term right now who doesn't deserve it?  Then NU is stuck with another large bill when /if he's fired. Sure, if this year ends up being a success then lock him up. If not, it does not make much sense keeping him around after Moos extended him just 1 year during the offseason.

 

Nobody is saying facilities/money is the only thing you need for success.  But, imagine how terrible we would be if Miles did not have a practice facility or the PBA to work with.  We would still be the Rutgers of the Big Ten.  The facility upgrades and resources put us on a more even playing field with other P5 programs. More so than ever before.  Unfortunately, we still don't have much to show for it in terms of postseason success.   

I didn’t mean sign him long term tomorrow, I meant at the end of the season. A season that still has a chance to be very successful, but I wouldn’t base that “success” entirely on winning a Tournament game or not.

[ladyhusker]

1 hour ago, avfan2121 said:

Not trying to move the goalposts, but people are always quick to point at facilities, resources, etc for reasons we should be winning more. Just saying we aren't a mile ahead of the other programs in those areas like they think. And I doubt those are of top importance to recruits/players.

THIS. In fact, if you look at the articles from when we signed any of our starting five, IIRC facilities never really come up, or if they do it's as a secondary thing. (I think we had this conversation back when Kenya Hunter left? I could be making that up but I seem tor recall it.) Having nice facilities might help (admittedly no one WANTS to practice at Mabel Lee) but if we're looking at factors in recruiting, I think we can probably agree that not everything weighs equally, and from the mouths of those who did commit here, having a nice locker room didn't really have much bearing in their decision.

 

Another thing to keep in mind: it's been joked about, but in all seriousness, with all the corruption in men's basketball recruiting, Nebraska has never come up. I'm not saying everyone cheats, but there is enough cheating going on that we don't exactly have a level playing field (which adds yet another hurdle to overcome). If we want to go down that road, maybe we'd pull in some better recruits and have quicker success -- but it seems to me that we can either have a longer road to success OR resort to some less-than-legal ways to speed up the process. I know which way I prefer.

[dustystehl]

2 hours ago, avfan2121 said:

And yet the top players keep going to the top programs every year.

 

Because those programs have better coaches.

[cipsucks]

9 minutes ago, dustystehl said:

 

Because those programs have better coaches.

Nebraska fans have been "spoiled" with great coaches in many of their programs.  Devaney/Osborne in football, Petit/Cook in volleyball, Pepin in track, Van Horn in baseball, Yori and the hot chick back in the 80's women's hoops, wrestling, sorry names escape me--don't follow the sport, Revelle in softball, Francis Allen in gymnastics and whoever coaches women's bowling--that person is really good!  Missing from the list is men's basketball.  Haven't had one in my lifetime, probably not in the history of the program.  Sigh....

[The Polish Rifle]

1 hour ago, ladyhusker said:

THIS. In fact, if you look at the articles from when we signed any of our starting five, IIRC facilities never really come up

Cope- “It was hard to say no to going home,” he said. “But I had to do what was best for me. I thought Nebraska had the edge. The facilities they have out there you don’t see too many places.”

 

Palmer- “When I came on a visit here, it just blew me away — facilities, coaching staff, what they told me I needed to work on"

 

Roby- “When you like the school and the coaches and the facilities, I don’t know what else more there is to wait for.” "Roby cited the 2-year-old Hendricks Training Complex and the 1-year old Pinnacle Bank Arena as two of the best facilities in the country, and said he felt “at home” in Lincoln from the first minute he set foot on campus."
 

Miles is a fantastic recruiter, but lets not act facilities in college sports don't matter. They do. That goes for attracting players and coaches. Hell I don't think Miles is here if we don't have PBA and Hendricks.