Bizarro Fire Miles Talk (Not BS)

[Silverbacked1]

9 minutes ago, jason2486 said:

 

Gotta love when people like him hide behind a phone or screen and say what they want knowing there's little chance of repercussions.

 

Kind of like us.... oh.... never mind.....

[AuroranHusker]

1 minute ago, Silverbacked1 said:

 

Kind of like us.... oh.... never mind.....

 

Wait, I thought that was your self-portrait, Sliver.

 

 

((ducks))

 

 

((runs away))

[jimmykc]

Random morning thought of the day: Is Shawn in D.C. with the team to show his support for the coach or to be there to fire him in person? Either way I would hope he does not perch over Tim's shoulder on the bench like some big red-headed raven over Poe's door. He has established himself as a jinx and it would be bad karma. Sit upstairs or somewhere the cameras can't focus on you whenever something bad happens on the court.

[colhusker]

21 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

How do you see a 308 area code and get tricked into Fremont?

 

Roby and Jordy were on first.

Interesting tidbits

 - Roby played AAU ball on the same team with Ethan Happ and Nicholas Baer

 - Jordy learned English in 5 years

That is better than some folks who were born in this country and have been trying to learn it their whole lives.

 

[hhcmatt]

47 minutes ago, jimmykc said:

Random morning thought of the day: Is Shawn in D.C. with the team to show his support for the coach or to be there to fire him in person? Either way I would hope he does not perch over Tim's shoulder on the bench like some big red-headed raven over Poe's door. He has established himself as a jinx and it would be bad karma. Sit upstairs or somewhere the cameras can't focus on you whenever something bad happens on the court.

 

He's going to sit right behind him like he does for every away game this month this year.

 

[hhcmatt]

 

 

[Hooper]

I have to admit that it surprises me that some folks here are still in favor of Miles being retained. The truth is that, post-OSU a couple of weeks ago, I was right there with you. Things have changed drastically since then.

 

Believe me, I see the talent on the roster that's due to return next year and fully grasp the argument that coach Miles and his staff deserve another year to see what they can do with that group. I made the same argument before the slide. However, I no longer believe it.

 

It seems evident to me that the program's culture is not healthy right now. I believe the players have lost faith in Miles' ability to lead them to success, and it really looks like they've tuned him out. Despite Tim's happy-go-lucky public demeanor, I believe he's much different in private. He's reportedly a tough coach to play for, and not very positive with his players. I happen to believe that these traits have exacerbated an already difficult situation by making it miserable.

 

The sideline tirade on Roby in the Illinois game did not sit well with me, and I know from reading posts from other fans that it didn't sit well with a lot of people. Isaiah's made a lot of freshman-type mistakes this year, but there has to be a better way to coach him than what I witnessed, and you didn't have to be an expert lip reader to decipher it. I found that whole exchange to be unacceptable, especially in light of what a good kid Isaiah is. 

 

I posted last week that an important component in any decision Eichorst makes on Miles is whether or not the coach has lost his team. I believe, without question, that Tim has in fact lost this team, and that pretty much seals it for me that he needs to go. Tim's outstanding recruiting over the past three classes bought him a lot of goodwill with me, but he's effectively used up all of his credit at this point and is now overdrawn.

 

Finally, for those who are worried that players will transfer if Miles is canned, from what I've heard, the reality is precisely the opposite. 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Hooper

[MichHusker]

27 minutes ago, Hooper said:

I have to admit that it surprises me that some folks here are still in favor of Miles being retained. The truth is that, post-OSU a couple of weeks ago, I was right there with you. Things have changed drastically since then.

 

Believe me, I see the talent on the roster that's due to return next year and fully grasp the argument that coach Miles and his staff deserve another year to see what they can do with that group. I made the same argument before the slide. However, I no longer believe it.

 

It seems evident to me that the program's culture is not healthy right now. I believe the players have lost faith in Miles' ability to lead them to success, and it really looks like they've tuned him out. Despite Tim's happy-go-lucky public demeanor, I believe he's much different in private. He's reportedly a tough coach to play for, and not very positive with his players. I happen to believe that these traits have exacerbated an already difficult situation by making it miserable.

 

The sideline tirade on Roby in the Illinois game did not sit well with me, and I know from reading posts from other fans that it didn't sit well with a lot of people. Isaiah's made a lot of freshman-type mistakes this year, but there has to be a better way to coach him than what I witnessed, and you didn't have to be an expert lip reader to decipher it. I found that whole exchange to be unacceptable, especially in light of what a good kid Isaiah is. 

 

I posted last week that an important component in any decision Eichorst makes on Miles is whether or not the coach has lost his team. I believe, without question, that Tim has in fact lost this team, and that pretty much seals it for me that he needs to go. Tim's outstanding recruiting over the past three classes bought him a lot of goodwill with me, but he's effectively used up all of his credit at this point and is now overdrawn.

 

Finally, for those who are worried that players will transfer if Miles is canned, from what I've heard, the reality is precisely the opposite. 

 

 

If what you say is true regarding the last sentence, then Miles should be gone. 

[HuskerFever]

20 minutes ago, Hooper said:

I have to admit that it surprises me that some folks here are still in favor of Miles being retained. The truth is that, post-OSU a couple of weeks ago, I was right there with you. Things have changed drastically since then.

 

These past four games should have no bearing on whether or not Miles is retained or let go. If all ADs fell victim to recency effect, then Coach Izzo could've been fired as the Michigan State coach back in 2010 when his team went on a 2-6 run, or Coach K when he went 4-8 to finish off the 2006 season, or more recently Coach Groce this year who went 4-9 and was "100% fired" by ESPN analyst but will likely be around next year.

 

You either believe in the long-term vision or you don't; the past four games don't matter. At least that's how I see it. Mind you, some people believe in the vision and some people don't. That's the part up for debate.

[Hooper]

21 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

These past four games should have no bearing on whether or not Miles is retained or let go. If all ADs fell victim to recency effect, then Coach Izzo could've been fired as the Michigan State coach back in 2010 when his team went on a 2-6 run, or Coach K when he went 4-8 to finish off the 2006 season, or more recently Coach Groce this year who went 4-9 and was "100% fired" by ESPN analyst but will likely be around next year.

 

You either believe in the long-term vision or you don't; the past four games don't matter. At least that's how I see it. Mind you, some people believe in the vision and some people don't. That's the part up for debate.

 

I disagree. This is a dynamic situation, not a static one. Circumstances change and evolve over time. This is about more than a bad losing streak. We've had bad losing streaks in the past under Miles, and we've had them this season. This isn't about losing four games in a row in dramatic fashion. To me, it's about a culture that has deteriorated, grown toxic and is in need of rebuilding.

And, if we're talking about Miles' long-term vision, if the players apparently don't believe in it, why should I?

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, Hooper said:

I have to admit that it surprises me that some folks here are still in favor of Miles being retained. The truth is that, post-OSU a couple of weeks ago, I was right there with you. Things have changed drastically since then.

 

Believe me, I see the talent on the roster that's due to return next year and fully grasp the argument that coach Miles and his staff deserve another year to see what they can do with that group. I made the same argument before the slide. However, I no longer believe it.

 

It seems evident to me that the program's culture is not healthy right now. I believe the players have lost faith in Miles' ability to lead them to success, and it really looks like they've tuned him out. Despite Tim's happy-go-lucky public demeanor, I believe he's much different in private. He's reportedly a tough coach to play for, and not very positive with his players. I happen to believe that these traits have exacerbated an already difficult situation by making it miserable.

 

The sideline tirade on Roby in the Illinois game did not sit well with me, and I know from reading posts from other fans that it didn't sit well with a lot of people. Isaiah's made a lot of freshman-type mistakes this year, but there has to be a better way to coach him than what I witnessed, and you didn't have to be an expert lip reader to decipher it. I found that whole exchange to be unacceptable, especially in light of what a good kid Isaiah is. 

 

I posted last week that an important component in any decision Eichorst makes on Miles is whether or not the coach has lost his team. I believe, without question, that Tim has in fact lost this team, and that pretty much seals it for me that he needs to go. Tim's outstanding recruiting over the past three classes bought him a lot of goodwill with me, but he's effectively used up all of his credit at this point and is now overdrawn.

 

Finally, for those who are worried that players will transfer if Miles is canned, from what I've heard, the reality is precisely the opposite. 

 

 

 

I have a question:  If Miles is such a dick to play for, why is Nick Fuller still here?

[Huskerone]

4 hours ago, jimmykc said:

Random morning thought of the day: Is Shawn in D.C. with the team to show his support for the coach or to be there to fire him in person? Either way I would hope he does not perch over Tim's shoulder on the bench like some big red-headed raven over Poe's door. He has established himself as a jinx and it would be bad karma. Sit upstairs or somewhere the cameras can't focus on you whenever something bad happens on the court.

I remember Tom Osborne sat behind the bench for the NIT game with Wichita State.  When it was evident we were getting rolled (half time I believe), he moved up to the nose bleed seats to finish watching the game.  Doc got one more year after that game.

 

I also remember the AD that should not be named being behind the bench when Charles Richardson hit the game winner against Texas Tech, so not sure how much the AD sitting behind the bench helps or hurts. 

[Hooper]

Just now, Norm Peterson said:

 

I have a question:  If Miles is such a dick to play for, why is Nick Fuller still here?

Well, I don't believe he'll be here next year, as I believe he'll pursue a grad transfer opportunity, but every player’s story and motivation is different. Nick knows he’s not a great player. Right now he’s getting a free education, and, for all I know, he has a great group of friends and didn’t want to uproot himself and sit out a year somewhere else. I don’t have enough information to answer your question, but I don’t believe it’s implied that Nick Fuller would automatically leave just because Miles is a tough coach to play for.

[HuskerFever]

9 minutes ago, Hooper said:

 

I disagree. This is a dynamic situation, not a static one. Circumstances change and evolve over time. This is about more than a bad losing streak. We've had bad losing streaks in the past under Miles, and we've had them this season. This isn't about losing four games in a row in dramatic fashion. To me, it's about a culture that has deteriorated, grown toxic and is in need of rebuilding.

And, if we're talking about Miles' long-term vision, if the players apparently don't believe in it, why should I?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're both speaking the same language but not understanding each others points.

 

I'm saying that just because there's a four game losing streak doesn't mean you should immediately flip your opinion about a coach. My understanding from the comment I'm replying to is that this is more than a losing streak. (Do we not agree?)

 

My other point is that a coach should be evaluated based on how and where the ship is being steered, which takes a more holistic view than just a game, a streak, or a season. My understanding from you is that a coach's career should be evaluated over time, which may encompass things like coaching ability, culture, etc.

 

I am just proposing that we think of it in terms of 'Do we believe in the vision or do we not?' That's a personal decision, which it sounds like you've got a solid grasp on from your standpoint.

[Huskerone]

1 hour ago, Hooper said:

The sideline tirade on Roby in the Illinois game did not sit well with me, and I know from reading posts from other fans that it didn't sit well with a lot of people. Isaiah's made a lot of freshman-type mistakes this year, but there has to be a better way to coach him than what I witnessed, and you didn't have to be an expert lip reader to decipher it. I found that whole exchange to be unacceptable, especially in light of what a good kid Isaiah is. 

 

I never minded a butt chewing from my coaches, it meant they cared, it meant they knew I could do better, they pushed me to be better.  I'm sure Miles has high expectations for Roby because he sees his potential.  That butt chew wasn't just for Roby's sake either, some of the things were said the rest of the team probably needed to hear also.

 

I would have more concern if Miles ignored the kid and just chocked up his mistakes to being a Freshman.  Especially if it were things that were emphasized in practice that were missed or not executed.

 

Good coaches know when to push that button and since this is A typical of coach Miles, I think he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Hooper]

3 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think we're both speaking the same language but not understanding each others points.

 

I'm saying that just because there's a four game losing streak doesn't mean you should immediately flip your opinion about a coach. My understanding from the comment I'm replying to is that this is more than a losing streak. (Do we not agree?)

 

My other point is that a coach should be evaluated based on how and where the ship is being steered, which takes a more holistic view than just a game, a streak, or a season. My understanding from you is that a coach's career should be evaluated over time, which may encompass things like coaching ability, culture, etc.

 

I am just proposing that we think of it in terms of 'Do we believe in the vision or do we not?' That's a personal decision, which it sounds like you've got a solid grasp on from your standpoint.

 

When you frame your argument like that, I'm more inclined to agree with you because losing streaks happen to the best coaches, and you cited clear examples from two of the best who ever coached. If you still believe in a coach in the broader context (his overall vision for the program, his ability to perform all facets of his job capably), then of course you shouldn't be fazed by a four-game losing streak.

However, my view on Miles is much more holistic and comprehensive than simply being upset about a four-game stretch during which the team was entirely uncompetitive. To me, this is more about a broken culture. Recent events that comprise far more than simply losing have led me to no longer believe in coach Miles in the larger context.

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, Hooper said:

I have to admit that it surprises me that some folks here are still in favor of Yori Miles being retained. The truth is that, post-OSU a couple of weeks ago, I was right there with you. Things have changed drastically since then.

 

Believe me, I see the talent on the roster that's due to return next year and fully grasp the argument that coach Yori Miles  and his staff deserve another year to see what they can do with that group. I made the same argument before the slide. However, I no longer believe it.

 

It seems evident to me that the program's culture is not healthy right now. I believe the players have lost faith in Yori Miles ability to lead them to success, and it really looks like they've tuned him out. Despite Connie's Tim's happy-go-lucky public demeanor, I believe he's much different in private. She's He's reportedly a tough coach to play for, and not very positive with his players. I happen to believe that these traits have exacerbated an already difficult situation by making it miserable.

 

The sideline tirade on Shepard Roby in the Illinois game did not sit well with me, and I know from reading posts from other fans that it didn't sit well with a lot of people. Isaiah's made a lot of freshman-type mistakes this year, but there has to be a better way to coach him than what I witnessed, and you didn't have to be an expert lip reader to decipher it. I found that whole exchange to be unacceptable, especially in light of what a good kid Jess Isaiah is. 

 

I posted last week that an important component in any decision Eichorst makes on Yori Miles is whether or not the coach has lost his team. I believe, without question, that Connie Tim has in fact lost this team, and that pretty much seals it for me that he needs to go. Connie's Tim's outstanding recruiting over the past three classes bought him a lot of goodwill with me, but he's effectively used up all of his credit at this point and is now overdrawn.

 

Finally, for those who are worried that players will transfer if Yori Miles is canned, from what I've heard, the reality is precisely the opposite. 

 

 

 

I admit I'm not an expert on the women's team. This seem about right?

[colhusker]

10 minutes ago, Huskerone said:

 

I never minded a butt chewing from my coaches, it meant they cared, it meant they knew I could do better, they pushed me to be better.  I'm sure Miles has high expectations for Roby because he sees his potential.  That butt chew wasn't just for Roby's sake either, some of the things were said the rest of the team probably needed to hear also.

 

I would have more concern if Miles ignored the kid and just chocked up his mistakes to being a Freshman.  Especially if it were things that were emphasized in practice that were missed or not executed.

 

Good coaches know when to push that button and since this is A typical of coach Miles, I think he knew exactly what he was doing.

This is spot on, at least for me.  When I coached baseball I told my parents right up front I might chew their son out.  I told them when I stopped chewing them out (if they needed it, usually came after a kid made the same mistake over and over) is when they needed to worry, meant I'd given up on kid.  Roster turnover was small and never because of correcting a kid.

Edited March 8, 2017 by colhusker

[Silverbacked1]

You know the best part is we will most likely know soon enough and then we can start the threads about if we did the right thing and who is leaving and who is staying and why.

 

 

[49r]

2 minutes ago, Silverbacked1 said:

You know the best part is we will most likely know soon enough and then we can start the threads about if we did the right thing and who is leaving and who is staying and why.

 

 

 

Can't wait, Silver!

 

Then it's going to be a dozen or so threads hashing and re-hashing potential starting lineups and rotations, the "how are we ever gonna replace Tai's production - we've never had to replace a talented scorer before in the history of ever" threads and on and on...

[The Polish Rifle]

7 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

 

I admit I'm not an expert on the women's team. This seem about right?

I think a mass exodus is much more likely to occur when a coach with success is fired. Yori had been here 10+ years and had been to tournaments 5 of her last 6 years, including sweet sixteens. Her players had seen success on the national level with her, and probably sensed unfairness towards her and had ill will for Nebraska - hence transferred. 

 

If Miles is fired for his performance on the court, I think players are going to be slightly more understanding, and not hold the university accountable for some type of conspiracy against their coach. 

[Norm Peterson]

20 minutes ago, Hooper said:

Well, I don't believe he'll be here next year, as I believe he'll pursue a grad transfer opportunity, but every player’s story and motivation is different. Nick knows he’s not a great player. Right now he’s getting a free education, and, for all I know, he has a great group of friends and didn’t want to uproot himself and sit out a year somewhere else. I don’t have enough information to answer your question, but I don’t believe it’s implied that Nick Fuller would automatically leave just because Miles is a tough coach to play for.

 

Hooper, you're one of the posters on here that I think generally knows what's going on and has good insights, and I tend to pay attention to what you have to say.

 

Having said that, your reply above is an example of what they call "kettle logic," which suggests that points in someone's argument are incompatible with each other.  The name comes from the illustration of someone being accused of returning a borrowed kettle in a damaged condition and the response that consists of kettle logic is "I never had your kettle and, besides, it was in perfect condition when I returned it to you."

 

Why would you believe he would pursue a graduate transfer now if he's motivated to stay here because, for all you know, he has a great group of friends, etc.?  Your contention that he would pursue a graduate transfer argues against your logic about why he hasn't left already.

 

Listen, Nick is a great kid.  I think we can all see that.  It's also been clear he would be nothing more than a role player while he remains in a Husker uniform.  He could have dropped down to D2 and played immediately or he could have left after his redshirt freshman year and burned a sophomore year, during which he rarely saw the floor here.  It seems unlikely that he would have remained here and played for a dick of a coach only to transfer for his senior year.  He's not going to transfer to a D1 program if he transfers at all.  Based on his stats, who would offer him?  If he goes anywhere, it would more like be D2, and he could have gone there already without sitting out.

 

So, bottom line, I still don't feel like I have an answer to my question.  If Miles was such a difficult coach, Nick could have left many moons ago.  Yet, he hasn't.

[FredsSlacks]

having watched the summit league final last night, fuller probably could have started or played heavy minutes for either of those teams. I imagine he'll transfer to a small d1 school if he decides to leave. I could see craig smith adding him next year.

Edited March 8, 2017 by TimSmiles

[49r]

anybody else watch "A Taste of Coaching" on BTN these last few weeks?  I found it somewhat strange to watch that show (which was taped nearly a year ago) amid all of the talk going on here.

[Hooper]

31 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Hooper, you're one of the posters on here that I think generally knows what's going on and has good insights, and I tend to pay attention to what you have to say.

 

Having said that, your reply above is an example of what they call "kettle logic," which suggests that points in someone's argument are incompatible with each other.  The name comes from the illustration of someone being accused of returning a borrowed kettle in a damaged condition and the response that consists of kettle logic is "I never had your kettle and, besides, it was in perfect condition when I returned it to you."

 

Why would you believe he would pursue a graduate transfer now if he's motivated to stay here because, for all you know, he has a great group of friends, etc.?  Your contention that he would pursue a graduate transfer argues against your logic about why he hasn't left already.

 

Listen, Nick is a great kid.  I think we can all see that.  It's also been clear he would be nothing more than a role player while he remains in a Husker uniform.  He could have dropped down to D2 and played immediately or he could have left after his redshirt freshman year and burned a sophomore year, during which he rarely saw the floor here.  It seems unlikely that he would have remained here and played for a dick of a coach only to transfer for his senior year.  He's not going to transfer to a D1 program if he transfers at all.  Based on his stats, who would offer him?  If he goes anywhere, it would more like be D2, and he could have gone there already without sitting out.

 

So, bottom line, I still don't feel like I have an answer to my question.  If Miles was such a difficult coach, Nick could have left many moons ago.  Yet, he hasn't.

 

The reality is that you asked a question I'm not informed enough to answer with any degree of certainty, which forces me to speculate. It's not implied that Nick would have left if Miles were a tough coach to play for. It's likewise not implied that Nick staying as long as he has refutes the notion that Miles is a tough coach to play for. It's also not the case that every player who plays for Miles has a bad relationship with him, regardless of whether or not he's tough to play for. I know Brandon Ubel seems to have a good relationship with Miles to this day.

 

I'm not convinced that Nick would be forced to go D2 if he were to transfer. I'm not saying he's headed to Kansas or Duke, but I feel that a lower-tier D1 team like Arkansas-Pine Bluff, Maine or Coppin State, to cite a few representative examples, would possibly be enthusiastic to grab a guy like Nick, who does a lot of things well and could bring a tough, physical presence to a team that might lack it. Did the prospect of uprooting himself only to sit out a year discourage Nick from transferring earlier? You may know the answer to that, but I can tell you that I do not. Nevertheless, it's an important variable in the equation, no?

 

We also can't ignore the guys who did decide to transfer, and, while I don't fault the staff for the departures of guys like Tarin Smith, Jake Hammond, Nate Hawkins and even AWIII, I strongly believe that Miles' coaching style certainly didn't discourage those guys from leaving. Let's just put it that way.

 

Ultimately, I just question how informative the Nick Fuller situation really is in relation to assessing Miles' coaching style. I've heard from multiple sources over the past couple of years that Tim has a very intense style of coaching in which he really gets after guys and doles out a lot of negativity without a lot of complementary positive reinforcement or encouragement. That can get old very quickly for guys and cause them to tune the coach out. Tough love is great, but tough without love often causes a dramatic deterioration in a player-coach relationship. 

Look at the body language recently of a guy like Glynn Watson. Do you like what you see? Does it not seem indicative to you of a player who's tuning his coach out? Maybe we just see things differently.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 8, 2017 by Hooper