uneblinstu's postgame chatter: vol 14; ed 8 - at NC State

2 hours ago, demone said:

Alright, I slept on this and the following topics will not be covered:

• Officiating

Up 14 with under 12 minutes to go in the 2nd half...there is no excuse for losing that game.

 

I have a question and really need some guidance. I'm starting to wonder if my expectation for the style of basketball we would play under this staff may have been way off. 

 

From my viewpoint, the offense we now run is a dribble-heavy drive and sometimes roll, sometimes kick, sometimes hope to get fouled approach. Some version of the dribble, drive, motion that Calipari uses at UK. It is all about beating your man 1 on 1 and then see what happens.

 

My expectation was something more free flowing, ball movement, people movement - alas, something that looked more like what that team in Omaha runs. 

 

Was I wrong? Did Hoiberg's philosophy change after going to the NBA? What I see now is not enjoyable for me to watch and in essence is not much different than what Miles ran, just with a few better shooters. Nebraska had their shots blocked 11 times! Blame the officiating (dammit, I did it) all you want - Nebraska could have and should have won this game, TV Teddy or not. But I really need to know if this is the intended offensively philosophy so I can prepare myself for what this will continue to look like going forward. 

I went back this morning and watched the lead evaporate, and there was little during that period that resembled an offense. Kobe made a couple of baskets because he recognized the soft part of the zone. Several forced shots at the basket and then begging for a call. Mostly we just dribbled, dribbIed, dribbled away the lead.

9 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I went back this morning and watched the lead evaporate, and there was little during that period that resembled an offense. Kobe made a couple of baskets because he recognized the soft part of the zone. Several forced shots at the basket and then begging for a call. Mostly we just dribbled, dribbIed, dribbled away the lead.

 

And it was strange/frustrating how whenever we did make a basket, it almost looked like we used that as an excuse to not have to defend on the next possession. Bryce kept picking up #1 about 25 feet from the basket but had no plans to stay in front of him. This would have been the game to pack the paint and make them beat you with outside shots. NC State looked like a really bad offensive team to me. 

19 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I went back this morning and watched the lead evaporate, and there was little during that period that resembled an offense. Kobe made a couple of baskets because he recognized the soft part of the zone. Several forced shots at the basket and then begging for a call. Mostly we just dribbled, dribbIed, dribbled away the lead.

 

Exactly this.  With the 12 or 14 point lead at somewhere around 12-14 minutes left, they resorted to street ball/hero ball as you described.  Jacked up a bunch of early shot-clock 3's also, if I remember correctly.  I was texting with my brothers and nephews that if they had kept playing something resembling team basketball, they would have been up 20+ with 8 minutes left (as others have pointed out in this thread) and almost assured of a win.

Then again, Nebrasketball probably finds a way to piss away a 20 point lead with 8 minutes left anyway.

16 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

And it was strange/frustrating how whenever we did make a basket, it almost looked like we used that as an excuse to not have to defend on the next possession. Bryce kept picking up #1 about 25 feet from the basket but had no plans to stay in front of him. This would have been the game to pack the paint and make them beat you with outside shots. NC State looked like a really bad offensive team to me. 

This would be one of those in game adjustment things I was referring to. I think we tried to trap seabron once out of that pick a roll and it resulted in a time out, why not go back to it after that? 

38 minutes ago, busticket said:

A bit surprised with all the negativity.  The team that walked out against Western Illinois would have got rolled badly in this game.  We should have won this game.  Far and away the best game we have played this year.  Not perfect by any means, but there were times the ball movement was excellent.  Problem was guys like Wilcher were cold and missing their open looks.  I thought the decision making on when to attack vs pass, especially by Verge, was much better.  Not a lot of hero ball; Fred wanted to see players make the easy play and I thought this was the best all season we have done that.  Finally looked a bit like Hoiberg ball out there.  
 

I had no hope going into Big Ten play before this game.  If we play like this, or heaven forbid keep improving, we are going to be proud of this team.  We were a dumpster fire our first 5 games.  We are making big progress.  It was a great effort tonight and I was proud of the fight, even if we came up a hair short.  

Good points - easily our best performance of the season - Verge made good decisions thru most of regulation and I don't think he took a shot outside of a few feet for the majority of regulation - unfortunately CJs & Bryce's outside shots weren't falling or it's probably an easy win.

For the majority of the game, it was our best half-court defensive performance by miles as well. Not sure why we couldn't come up with a way to stop Seaborn, though, and make someone else beat us. As someone else mentioned, Bryce had no business trying to guard Seaborn. Would've liked to have seen Edwards get a shot at him.

Not sure if we've improved enough to win any of these next three games -- after all, the bar was very, very low after the first several games -- but I'm way more encouraged this morning than I was 24 hours ago. That was a good effort going on the road for the first time & easily could have been a win.

Admittedly, my expectations going into last night were for a double-digit beatdown, so my perspective is skewed a bit.  But I'm still more encouraged coming out of the game than I was going in. Teddy Valentine isn't going to ruin that for me.

Two things can be true at once:

- NU could have done things better earlier in the game so NCST has a harder time coming back. I know I rued it at the time. 

AND

- The officials missed an obvious call at the end of regulation, perhaps other calls as well that could have significantly impacted the outcome, both in regulation and the overtimes.

Both are true.

Regarding the officiating, I think there were many calls that were questionable.

1. I am surprised that only 1 NC State player got tossed as the entire bench was on the floor, I know it was a timeout at the start, but they didn't go back to their bench, they got into the mix.

2. Walker got away with at least 4 travels in overtime alone...His footwork is a disaster.

3. Definitely a foul on the layup, especially after a call on the other end...I'm ok if you allow some hacks in the last minute if you allow it both ways.

39 minutes ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I went back this morning and watched the lead evaporate, and there was little during that period that resembled an offense. Kobe made a couple of baskets because he recognized the soft part of the zone. Several forced shots at the basket and then begging for a call. Mostly we just dribbled, dribbIed, dribbled away the lead.

 

This offense is just mindblowing.  Its just isolation for Verge and Mcgowens.  Not the offense I was expecting in year 3 with this talent under Fred

10 hours ago, B-town hoopsfan said:

Why? Let’s just look at the point in the game where lat lost his shit and got ejected.

 

played the rest of Regulation and I believe all of the first OT without subbing. Played just breidenbach as a sub for the 2nd and 3rd OT. No Webster till the 4th OT where he hits several shots. 
 

played wilcher for the rest of regulation and what seemed like all 3 of those OT periods when his shot was obviously off( if you want shooting try lakes, if you want defense try Edwards ) 

 

let seabron take it to Bryce over and over again on the defensive end which was a clear miss match in regulation and the first couple overtime’s without trying anyone else on him.  Again try Edwards who’s 6’7 and seems fairly athletic on him or wilcher held his own vs him A few times even.  But it’s just shit coaching to expect Bryce to handle a majority of the load on offense and then to also try to stop seabron every position on defense. 
 

The fact the we don’t play Andre half the game just makes zero sense too. Something must be up behind closed doors. It should be like a 22/18 minute split between him and walker at the 5 because like always we are gonna get our shit rocked in the Big Ten with just walker at center and Andre is likely to transfer without meaningful playing time IMO.

 

we are in year three and yes talent level is better than it’s been in quite some time but that doesn’t matter if the coaching isn’t better than it’s been in quite some time. 

If Trey is not hurt he is defending Seabron.

Bryce needs to improve as a defensive player.

8 minutes ago, throwback said:

 

 

For the majority of the game, it was our best half-court defensive performance by miles as well. Not sure why we couldn't come up with a way to stop Seaborn, though, and make someone else beat us. As someone else mentioned, Bryce had no business trying to guard Seaborn. Would've liked to have seen Edwards get a shot at him.

 

 

Sounds like Edwards was to cold to get a chance at playing defense last night 

4 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

If Trey is not hurt he is defending Seabron.

Bryce needs to improve as a defensive player.

Totally agree with both those points. But he is hurt and Bryce didn’t have it on defense last night so we shoulda tried something different IMO

10 hours ago, HB said:

Don’t need to.  I saw many of our own mistakes, which are embedded in our culture.   We can keep blaming refs, or we can be better coached.  

All teams make mistakes. NC State made many of them. The calls deliberately kept them in the game. It's ok to say that refs have a significant impact on the game when they do their job poorly and inconsistently. SVP opened his show with it. 

1 hour ago, Chuck Taylor said:

I went back this morning and watched the lead evaporate, and there was little during that period that resembled an offense. Kobe made a couple of baskets because he recognized the soft part of the zone. Several forced shots at the basket and then begging for a call. Mostly we just dribbled, dribbIed, dribbled away the lead.

 

Exactly what I saw and honestly have seen the entire year. I can say that if this is what our offense is supposed to be, I'll follow the team (mostly right here on HHC) and hope they win, but I won't go out of my way to watch it. Not that it matters in the grand scheme but I want to see team basketball, apparently an increasingly foreign concept in today's game.

I'm done complaining about the any of the players.  Hoiberg is easily our worst coach since Jerry Bush.  He just seems so bad in game.  Its like her forgot that its okay to call and timeout and coach college kids.  All of our potential game ending possessions were expectedly bad; just like Husker football, I know if the game is close Nebrasketball will lose.

Will be interesting to see what our starting lineup and rotation will be against Indiana. Keon didn't start the second half last night. Will Lat be suspended? Will we go bigger and have Walker guard Jackson-Davis and Wilhelm guard Thompson? Or smaller with Keisei and CJ and make them chase us around. Jackson-Davis is the best player in the league IMO and would absolutely abuse Lat anyway. Can't say I'm too excited for this game. Feels like one where we could get ran out of the gym. Their bigs are athletic and physical, and good passers out of the post. They don't seem to have a sharpshooter (Parker Stewart's early season high 3P% is an anomaly for his career) but they are all a threat to shoot. Teams with a boat load of average three point shooters seem to light it up against Nebraska. 

9 hours ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

The cherry on top of this shit sandwich is when NC St. is one of the last teams in on selection Sunday and we are the first team out and the committee points back at this head to head result.  That seems like the natural evolution and most fitting conclusion of this chapter in Nebrasketball history.

That is the day I leave a bag of burning dog poop on Ted Valentine's front porch.

11 hours ago, throwback said:

NC State was called for a foul with 12:24 left in regulation while trailing by 13. Not counting the technicals, they were called for 1 foul in the next 19:40 of regulation and OTs. Somehow, they managed not to commit fouls while having to scramble to get back in the game and while trailing for the majority of the 19:40.

 

NU was called for 13 fouls over the same 19:40.

 

Exactly!  After NU took that big lead they made 3 or 4 "questionable" calls in a row to help NC St get back into it.  I said at that moment "the fix is in" and it played out that way exactly. 

22 minutes ago, PimpMario said:

I'm done complaining about the any of the players.  Hoiberg is easily our worst coach since Jerry Bush.  He just seems so bad in game.  Its like her forgot that its okay to call and timeout and coach college kids.  All of our potential game ending possessions were expectedly bad; just like Husker football, I know if the game is close Nebrasketball will lose.

Iowa St must have been a fluke or the ISU fans were smoking something. 

Some days I wish I could just step away from Nebraska Basketball and not watch the games or be a fan...  Check that  MOST DAYS!

We desperately need more shooting in our first group. I went back and looked at the first 5 minutes of each of our games. 

We're averaging 7 points in the first 5 minutes on the season. That'd be on pace for 56 ppg.  

Verge never seems to get going until CJ, Keisei, Kobe come in. Our three best shooters (by far) come off the bench. At this point, there's not one reliable outside shooter in the starting lineup. 

Our starters are a combined 18/89 from behind the arc.  21%. 

When your two best offensive players are at their best getting to the rim, you have to have shooting threats around them to create space. Especially if we're gonna keep running the PNR with Verge and Walker as much as we have been. Doesn't look like Verge is going to stop throwing behind the back bounce passes on the run through traffic, so might as well give him more space to do so. 

I continue to be impressed by Quaran McPherson who I've only seen play in a couple of minutes in an exhibition game.  He's sitting by the coaching staff during regulation and then is the only guy on the sideline not losing his shit when they don't get the call. He spots Verge and immediately goes over to help him up.

2 hours ago, busticket said:

A bit surprised with all the negativity.  The team that walked out against Western Illinois would have got rolled badly in this game.  We should have won this game.  Far and away the best game we have played this year.  Not perfect by any means, but there were times the ball movement was excellent.  Problem was guys like Wilcher were cold and missing their open looks.  I thought the decision making on when to attack vs pass, especially by Verge, was much better.  Not a lot of hero ball; Fred wanted to see players make the easy play and I thought this was the best all season we have done that.  Finally looked a bit like Hoiberg ball out there.  
 

I had no hope going into Big Ten play before this game.  If we play like this, or heaven forbid keep improving, we are going to be proud of this team.  We were a dumpster fire our first 5 games.  We are making big progress.  It was a great effort tonight and I was proud of the fight, even if we came up a hair short.  

Oh 100% we look a ton better than we did.  You have to remember though that after the first 4 games (even our wins) we couldn’t have looked much worse.  There was only one way to go.

It’ll be interesting to see what the Wolfpack do in the ACC but I think they’ll struggle.  They didn’t defend all that well and shot it terrible.

I think the reason people are upset/frustrated is the fact that we gave up a 14 point lead, once again went long stretches without hitting a shot, and they know that was one that got away in a very daunting 5 game stretch where there is not a guaranteed win.

To me, the officiating last night fell into the same thing i see so often. Balls out bull charge to rim, quick whistle. But actually use some finesse and angles, like you actually try to make a move, have to be the victim of a felony to get a call. 

12 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

It was Lat, Andre, and Oleg who were ejected.

I was quietly excited to see Lat ejected so I could see how we'd play without him... But Andre was so dumb. What a bone-head. We could have really used him in multiple scenarios.