Red flags in recruiting?

[hhcmatt]

  On 4/1/2013 at 1:52 PM, nustudent said:

Maybe they didn't hold back the scholarship just to leave room for this year.   Maybe they didn't think much of those players

Just looking at the numbers those guys put up last year, either one of them would have definitely been in the rotation this last year and probably the upcoming year as well. Maybe the coaching staff didn't think they would cut it. Did they explore other JUCOs to balance the class?

[nustudent]

  On 4/1/2013 at 2:54 PM, hhcdimes said:

  On 4/1/2013 at 1:52 PM, nustudent said:

Maybe they didn't hold back the scholarship just to leave room for this year.   Maybe they didn't think much of those players

Just looking at the numbers those guys put up last year, either one of them would have definitely been in the rotation this last year and probably the upcoming year as well. Maybe the coaching staff didn't think they would cut it. Did they explore other JUCOs to balance the class?

Maybe they didn't think they would cut it and felt like taking a late JUCO (outside of Biggs) wasn't worth taking the chance.  There's no pressure to win immediately...so why take the flyer?

[Donkey]

  On 4/1/2013 at 2:54 PM, hhcdimes said:

  On 4/1/2013 at 1:52 PM, nustudent said:

Maybe they didn't hold back the scholarship just to leave room for this year.   Maybe they didn't think much of those players

Just looking at the numbers those guys put up last year, either one of them would have definitely been in the rotation this last year and probably the upcoming year as well. Maybe the coaching staff didn't think they would cut it. Did they explore other JUCOs to balance the class?

 

Just curious.  Had we not held back a scholarship last year, who could we have realistically pursued?  From what I recall, the staff brought in two transfers, a JUCO, and a prep school kid.  It appears they scoured all available resources to find talent.  If they didn't like what was out there, why hand out a scholarship for another player to simply ride the bench?  People on this board have been very outspoken about SV riding the pine.  Heck some on here bring up Ping as an example of NOT just giving out scholarships to fill out spots.  

[Hooper]

I don't believe there are red flags about Miles' recruiting per se, but we have to acknowledge three stark realities about our program with respect to recruiting:

 

1) We have virtually no established basketball history and have never even won an NCAA tournament game.

2) We have a well-deserved reputation as a football school where basketball is treated like the red-headed stepchild.

3) Unlike many other programs, we don't pay players, their families or their AAU or high school coaches to steer them to Lincoln.

 

Factors 1 and 2 can be changed through on-court success. The new facilities upgrades help with #2 as well. Item #3 is not likely to change. I'm not saying it should, but it's a hindrance for sure, as basketball recruiting is as shady as shady gets. The Atewe scenario was a good example. I don't know what his mentor got to land him for Auburn, but you can bet your ass he got something, and that something may have been shared with Matthew and his family. AAU coaches are known for "making it rain." Now, someone like Atewe may only make it drizzle, but something shady went down for sure.

 

We also lost a lot of recruiting contacts, especially at the AAU level, when Chin Coleman left the building. We haven't replaced him and really don't have another guy on staff with the AAU connections Coleman had. I'd love to see us replace him with someone similar once the NCAA clarifies its policies.

[Daledangdarn]

I think Miles had done good in the first couple recruiting cycles.  Now, once we move into the arena, and we don't see a boost in recruiting then I could see a legitimate reason for someone to grip a little, but as of now no way. 

[hugh42]

  On 4/1/2013 at 5:34 PM, Hooper said:

I don't believe there are red flags about Miles' recruiting per se, but we have to acknowledge three stark realities about our program with respect to recruiting:

 

1) We have virtually no established basketball history and have never even won an NCAA tournament game.

2) We have a well-deserved reputation as a football school where basketball is treated like the red-headed stepchild.

3) Unlike many other programs, we don't pay players, their families or their AAU or high school coaches to steer them to Lincoln.

 

Factors 1 and 2 can be changed through on-court success. The new facilities upgrades help with #2 as well. Item #3 is not likely to change. I'm not saying it should, but it's a hindrance for sure, as basketball recruiting is as shady as shady gets. The Atewe scenario was a good example. I don't know what his mentor got to land him for Auburn, but you can bet your ass he got something, and that something may have been shared with Matthew and his family. AAU coaches are known for "making it rain." Now, someone like Atewe may only make it drizzle, but something shady went down for sure.

 

We also lost a lot of recruiting contacts, especially at the AAU level, when Chin Coleman left the building. We haven't replaced him and really don't have another guy on staff with the AAU connections Coleman had. I'd love to see us replace him with someone similar once the NCAA clarifies its policies.

 

Doesn't Harriman have AAU connections?  Didn't he arrange for the team from Indiana to visit?

[cipsucks]

  On 4/1/2013 at 2:27 AM, MilesForPrez said:

actually this is the best thread on the damn board. 

I don't know.  The choach firing season is pretty strong.....

[AuroranHusker]

It was the best of times and the worst of times... all in 1 thread. Recruiting will do that~!!

[uneblinstu]

  On 4/1/2013 at 11:06 PM, hugh42 said:

  On 4/1/2013 at 5:34 PM, Hooper said:

I don't believe there are red flags about Miles' recruiting per se, but we have to acknowledge three stark realities about our program with respect to recruiting:

 

1) We have virtually no established basketball history and have never even won an NCAA tournament game.

2) We have a well-deserved reputation as a football school where basketball is treated like the red-headed stepchild.

3) Unlike many other programs, we don't pay players, their families or their AAU or high school coaches to steer them to Lincoln.

 

Factors 1 and 2 can be changed through on-court success. The new facilities upgrades help with #2 as well. Item #3 is not likely to change. I'm not saying it should, but it's a hindrance for sure, as basketball recruiting is as shady as shady gets. The Atewe scenario was a good example. I don't know what his mentor got to land him for Auburn, but you can bet your ass he got something, and that something may have been shared with Matthew and his family. AAU coaches are known for "making it rain." Now, someone like Atewe may only make it drizzle, but something shady went down for sure.

 

We also lost a lot of recruiting contacts, especially at the AAU level, when Chin Coleman left the building. We haven't replaced him and really don't have another guy on staff with the AAU connections Coleman had. I'd love to see us replace him with someone similar once the NCAA clarifies its policies.

 

Doesn't Harriman have AAU connections?  Didn't he arrange for the team from Indiana to visit?

Chin certainly had AAU connections, but the rest of them have AAU connections of thier own.  We didn't go for 10 to 0 in that regard, not even close.

[Rome4Lyfe]

I would say with this class and what Miles was able to put together with last year's class our athleticism has skyrocketed, along with our overall size of the team. I see no red flags so far!

[jimmykc]

I don't think that Chin was technically considered a choach here.

[Red Rum]

I see one Big Red flag!

 

 

Sorry I should finish my coffee before I start posting

[Norm Peterson]

  On 4/1/2013 at 3:04 PM, nustudent said:

  On 4/1/2013 at 2:54 PM, hhcdimes said:

 

  On 4/1/2013 at 1:52 PM, nustudent said:

Maybe they didn't hold back the scholarship just to leave room for this year.   Maybe they didn't think much of those players

Just looking at the numbers those guys put up last year, either one of them would have definitely been in the rotation this last year and probably the upcoming year as well. Maybe the coaching staff didn't think they would cut it. Did they explore other JUCOs to balance the class?

Maybe they didn't think they would cut it and felt like taking a late JUCO (outside of Biggs) wasn't worth taking the chance.  There's no pressure to win immediately...so why take the flyer?

I'm sure that's probably what they thought.  And hindsight is 20/20.  But these weren't late jucos.  These were guys we signed in November of 2011.  And one of them is 6'10" and 240# and would be entering his senior year at Nebraska if he'd come here.  Right at a time where we've been saying we need someone with some size inside.  Hey, we had him.  And instead of keeping him, we gave his scholarship to Trevor Menke for a year and are now having difficulty finding other guys with size to hold down the middle for us next year.  So ...

[nustudent]

  On 4/2/2013 at 2:12 PM, Norm Peterson said:

  On 4/1/2013 at 3:04 PM, nustudent said:

 

  On 4/1/2013 at 2:54 PM, hhcdimes said:

 

  On 4/1/2013 at 1:52 PM, nustudent said:

Maybe they didn't hold back the scholarship just to leave room for this year.   Maybe they didn't think much of those players

Just looking at the numbers those guys put up last year, either one of them would have definitely been in the rotation this last year and probably the upcoming year as well. Maybe the coaching staff didn't think they would cut it. Did they explore other JUCOs to balance the class?

Maybe they didn't think they would cut it and felt like taking a late JUCO (outside of Biggs) wasn't worth taking the chance.  There's no pressure to win immediately...so why take the flyer?

I'm sure that's probably what they thought.  And hindsight is 20/20.  But these weren't late jucos.  These were guys we signed in November of 2011.  And one of them is 6'10" and 240# and would be entering his senior year at Nebraska if he'd come here.  Right at a time where we've been saying we need someone with some size inside.  Hey, we had him.  And instead of keeping him, we gave his scholarship to Trevor Menke for a year and are now having difficulty finding other guys with size to hold down the middle for us next year.  So ...

Weren't we hurting for APR reasons when they took over?   Why do you bring in guys that aren't your guys that you don't necessarily like that are iffy to graduate when you have no pressure to win in your first few years.

Safe to say that if Miles and Co would have though Fahro and Coleman actually offered something outside of increasing our average team height...they would have brought them in. 

[Hooper]

  On 4/2/2013 at 4:12 AM, uneblinstu said:

  On 4/1/2013 at 11:06 PM, hugh42 said:

 

  On 4/1/2013 at 5:34 PM, Hooper said:

I don't believe there are red flags about Miles' recruiting per se, but we have to acknowledge three stark realities about our program with respect to recruiting:

 

1) We have virtually no established basketball history and have never even won an NCAA tournament game.

2) We have a well-deserved reputation as a football school where basketball is treated like the red-headed stepchild.

3) Unlike many other programs, we don't pay players, their families or their AAU or high school coaches to steer them to Lincoln.

 

Factors 1 and 2 can be changed through on-court success. The new facilities upgrades help with #2 as well. Item #3 is not likely to change. I'm not saying it should, but it's a hindrance for sure, as basketball recruiting is as shady as shady gets. The Atewe scenario was a good example. I don't know what his mentor got to land him for Auburn, but you can bet your ass he got something, and that something may have been shared with Matthew and his family. AAU coaches are known for "making it rain." Now, someone like Atewe may only make it drizzle, but something shady went down for sure.

 

We also lost a lot of recruiting contacts, especially at the AAU level, when Chin Coleman left the building. We haven't replaced him and really don't have another guy on staff with the AAU connections Coleman had. I'd love to see us replace him with someone similar once the NCAA clarifies its policies.

 

Doesn't Harriman have AAU connections?  Didn't he arrange for the team from Indiana to visit?

Chin certainly had AAU connections, but the rest of them have AAU connections of thier own.  We didn't go for 10 to 0 in that regard, not even close.

 

Every basketball coach in American has some AAU connections. The issue is the caliber and strength of those connections. 

Harriman's forte is international recruiting. He has plenty of contacts in the US, but I feel that's his specialty.

 

Johnson has good contacts in Minnesota in particular.

 

I'm not exactly sure where Smith's AAU connections are.

 

What I'm saying is that Coleman had very strong AAU connections, especially in the Chicago metro, which walked out the building when he left and haven't been replaced.

[Norm Peterson]

Again, I say we were hurting for big bodies inside last year and remain concerned about it this year and Miles dumped a 6'10" kid who was committed to us and gave his spot to Trevor Menke for a year instead.

 

I realize hindsight is 20/20, but it's not like he'd have had to invest 4 years in those guys.

[Swan88]

Let's not confuse the second guessing of a recruiting judgment call with an actual mistake by the coaching staff.

Keep in mind that the coaches took a legitimate shot at such things as signing both Akoy and Vitto. Would we now criticize the coaching staff for taking shots like that instead of signing Fahro Alihodzic, who turned in this past year a middling performance on a 16 wins / 17 losses Conference USA team . . . or for passing on Jarron Young who put up 8.8 points and 4.1 rebounds per game at Wright State?

Here's voting for nothing short of stellar reviews and highest plaudits for the recruiting performance thus far by this staff.

[NUdiehard]

Fahro averaged 9.7pts/game (47.4% from the field) and 4.5 rebouds/game this season for UAB.  He is 6'10" and shot 80% on free throws, all in just 25.5 minutes per game.  If you average that out over a 40 minutes per game average, I am guessing this is very close to the production of Ubel this year.  And Fahro is only a junior. 

 

Looking back, I don't see how it could be disputed that it was a mistake to not keep Fahro.  As mentioned, his scholarship was given to Menke last year.  There would have been almost no risk in keeping him.

[nustudent]

  On 4/2/2013 at 2:50 PM, NUdiehard said:

Fahro averaged 9.7pts/game (47.4% from the field) and 4.5 rebouds/game this season for UAB.  He is 6'10" and shot 80% on free throws, all in just 25.5 minutes per game.  If you average that out over a 40 minutes per game average, I am guessing this is very close to the production of Ubel this year.  And Fahro is only a junior. 

 

Looking back, I don't see how it could be disputed that it was a mistake to not keep Fahro.  As mentioned, his scholarship was given to Menke last year.  There would have been almost no risk in keeping him.

Safe to say in hindsight.

 

Do you sign a guy you don't like who may have qualificiation issues when you are also teetering on the APR bubble?   Do you sign a guy you don't like when you are going to have room for a much bigger class the next year? 

Seems to me...considering what our expectations were for this year.....there was more potential downside than good to bring him in.

[BigTexHusker]

  On 4/2/2013 at 2:35 PM, Hooper said:

  On 4/2/2013 at 4:12 AM, uneblinstu said:

 

  On 4/1/2013 at 11:06 PM, hugh42 said:

 

  On 4/1/2013 at 5:34 PM, Hooper said:

I don't believe there are red flags about Miles' recruiting per se, but we have to acknowledge three stark realities about our program with respect to recruiting:

 

1) We have virtually no established basketball history and have never even won an NCAA tournament game.

2) We have a well-deserved reputation as a football school where basketball is treated like the red-headed stepchild.

3) Unlike many other programs, we don't pay players, their families or their AAU or high school coaches to steer them to Lincoln.

 

Factors 1 and 2 can be changed through on-court success. The new facilities upgrades help with #2 as well. Item #3 is not likely to change. I'm not saying it should, but it's a hindrance for sure, as basketball recruiting is as shady as shady gets. The Atewe scenario was a good example. I don't know what his mentor got to land him for Auburn, but you can bet your ass he got something, and that something may have been shared with Matthew and his family. AAU coaches are known for "making it rain." Now, someone like Atewe may only make it drizzle, but something shady went down for sure.

 

We also lost a lot of recruiting contacts, especially at the AAU level, when Chin Coleman left the building. We haven't replaced him and really don't have another guy on staff with the AAU connections Coleman had. I'd love to see us replace him with someone similar once the NCAA clarifies its policies.

 

Doesn't Harriman have AAU connections?  Didn't he arrange for the team from Indiana to visit?

Chin certainly had AAU connections, but the rest of them have AAU connections of thier own.  We didn't go for 10 to 0 in that regard, not even close.

 

Every basketball coach in American has some AAU connections. The issue is the caliber and strength of those connections. 

Harriman's forte is international recruiting. He has plenty of contacts in the US, but I feel that's his specialty.

 

Johnson has good contacts in Minnesota in particular.

 

I'm not exactly sure where Smith's AAU connections are.

 

What I'm saying is that Coleman had very strong AAU connections, especially in the Chicago metro, which walked out the building when he left and haven't been replaced.

 

Coach Smith has made large inroads in the Texas AAU community.  Since his beginnings at CSU, he has been a mainstay in TX and there are plenty of elite level programs here that I've seen him around.  Coach Miles as well, has been here numerous times and seems to have a little juice in the TX ranks.  Obviously, that only increased with the move to a high major, with the facilities and B1G calling cards, and will continue to rise with winning.

 

Another thing that helps us going forward is TV exposure.  When you can tell a recruit every game is on national TV, it's a lot easier to convince mom to let her baby go 

[NUdiehard]

  On 4/2/2013 at 3:04 PM, nustudent said:

  On 4/2/2013 at 2:50 PM, NUdiehard said:

Fahro averaged 9.7pts/game (47.4% from the field) and 4.5 rebouds/game this season for UAB.  He is 6'10" and shot 80% on free throws, all in just 25.5 minutes per game.  If you average that out over a 40 minutes per game average, I am guessing this is very close to the production of Ubel this year.  And Fahro is only a junior. 

 

Looking back, I don't see how it could be disputed that it was a mistake to not keep Fahro.  As mentioned, his scholarship was given to Menke last year.  There would have been almost no risk in keeping him.

Safe to say in hindsight.

 

Do you sign a guy you don't like who may have qualificiation issues when you are also teetering on the APR bubble?   Do you sign a guy you don't like when you are going to have room for a much bigger class the next year? 

Seems to me...considering what our expectations were for this year.....there was more potential downside than good to bring him in.

I don't get the APR point.  How is Fahro any more of an APR risk than any other recruit?  If Fahro had not qualified, I don't think he would have counted against our APR since he never would have played in a game.  Besides, I don't remember there being major concerns about his qualification status.  None more than any other recruit.  And beyond that, I think this whole APR issue is overblown right now.  I have not seen any credible source say that NU is currently walking a thin line with the APR, only rumors and innuendo right now on that.

 

Fahro is not a huge deal either way.  All I am saying is that looking back, it definitely would have been better to keep him.  Miles was unable to land another recruit for last year and has been unable to land sufficient quality recruits this year to justify not keeping him.  Of course Miles may have hoped he could get better, but ulitimately it is his job to evaluate where things are at and make the right choices.  I just don't think it would have been much of a risk at all to keep him.  Miles stll would have had 4 scholarships available for this class, and he always has the option of letting a a few players go to make more room if he needs it.  For instance, would you rather have Fahro next year or BP?  Miles knew last year that AA and Ubel were going to graduate and that Vooch was going to need a lot of strenght conditioning before he is ready.  Miles knew enough to make an informed decision.

 

If you want to take it one step further, you could say the mistake was in choosing BP over Fahro if you are so concerned about saving scholarships for this class.

[nustudent]

  On 4/2/2013 at 3:45 PM, NUdiehard said:

  On 4/2/2013 at 3:04 PM, nustudent said:

 

  On 4/2/2013 at 2:50 PM, NUdiehard said:

Fahro averaged 9.7pts/game (47.4% from the field) and 4.5 rebouds/game this season for UAB.  He is 6'10" and shot 80% on free throws, all in just 25.5 minutes per game.  If you average that out over a 40 minutes per game average, I am guessing this is very close to the production of Ubel this year.  And Fahro is only a junior. 

 

Looking back, I don't see how it could be disputed that it was a mistake to not keep Fahro.  As mentioned, his scholarship was given to Menke last year.  There would have been almost no risk in keeping him.

Safe to say in hindsight.

 

Do you sign a guy you don't like who may have qualificiation issues when you are also teetering on the APR bubble?   Do you sign a guy you don't like when you are going to have room for a much bigger class the next year? 

Seems to me...considering what our expectations were for this year.....there was more potential downside than good to bring him in.

I don't get the APR point.  How is Fahro any more of an APR risk than any other recruit?  If Fahro had not qualified, I don't think he would have counted against our APR since he never would have played in a game.  Besides, I don't remember there being major concerns about his qualification status.  None more than any other recruit.  And beyond that, I think this whole APR issue is overblown right now.  I have not seen any credible source say that NU is currently walking a thin line with the APR, only rumors and innuendo right now on that.

 

Fahro is not a huge deal either way.  All I am saying is that looking back, it definitely would have been better to keep him.  Miles was unable to land another recruit for last year and has been unable to land sufficient quality recruits this year to justify not keeping him.  Of course Miles may have hoped he could get better, but ulitimately it is his job to evaluate where things are at and make the right choices.  I just don't think it would have been much of a risk at all to keep him.  Miles stll would have had 4 scholarships available for this class, and he always has the option of letting a a few players go to make more room if he needs it.  For instance, would you rather have Fahro next year or BP?  Miles knew last year that AA and Ubel were going to graduate and that Vooch was going to need a lot of strenght conditioning before he is ready.  Miles knew enough to make an informed decision.

 

If you want to take it one step further, you could say the mistake was in choosing BP over Fahro if you are so concerned about saving scholarships for this class.

There were qualification concerns over Fahro last year.   If he's a guy that has grade risks and you don't like him...what are the chances he doesn't finish.   Decent.   For a guy who was no more than an average prospect on paper....and you are facing APR issues and you are rebuilding with no expectations for success...why do you pull the trigger.  

 

Fahro was an average player on an average finishing team in an average at best conference.   Not really the type of player you want to take risks on when there is no reason for you to take a risk.

 

And there were APR issues last year.   I believe we are past them with guys like Standhardinger on pace to graduate at Hawaii and with Ubel, Talley and Almeida graduating but we were on thin ice for a while.  And it was reported, its not just message board speculation.

 

And again...if Miles actually though Fahro was worth a darn...my guess is that he probably would have brought him in.   We needed the bigs and had room to do so.  It's not like Fahro was some highly rated stud that we chose to turn away.   He was a questionable prospect at the time and still is.   It's not like he's shown anything that would lead one to believe he would make us any better than we are.   That's not worth the risk if you ask me.

 

At least with Parker, you filled a need at point guard (since Hilliard left).  Fahro was going to sit behind Ubel for sure and Almeida this year anyways.   Parker also gave you 4 years to develop (and was the Kansas City player of the year) vs. 2 for Fahro. 

 

Hard for me to fault Miles on that right now. 

 

If Fahro had been a 4* stud who was lighting it up now...it'd be fair to ask why.   Neither of those are the case.

[Red Rum]

I'm actually with nustudent on this one.

 

It wasn't a big secret that we'd be hurting for size if we let Fahro and Coleman go so I'm sure the staff was aware of this. I don't know what it is but they saw something in those players that they didn't want, but they saw it so they let them go. Nebraska is in rebuilding mode right now and has been for a long time. Coach Miles has rebuilt programs before so I trust he has some sort of idea on how to do that and brining in quick fix patches doesn't cut it. Ask Doc.

 

Back to the OP, there is no reason to jump. The man's been on the job for one year. You mean he couldn't get 4 or 5 star players to come to consitantly below average Nebrasketball to get their brain beat in? Let it play out.

[Silverbacked1]

Maybe we should ask the manager of the book store of Fahro's junior college?

[HB]

  On 4/2/2013 at 4:35 PM, Silverbacked1 said:

Maybe we should ask the manager of the book store of Fahro's junior college?

 

Yes, I was surprised this wasn't brought up sooner in the thread.  Who knows if it played into Miles thinking.  Publically, at the time, there was mention of Miles having a tough time even reaching Fahro.  In any event, Miles caeres a lot about chemistry and claims to be selective about the type of person he recruits in addition to the talent level.  Perhaps Fahro checks out fine in spite of the bookstore issue, but I can see why Miles may have thought it wasn't worth the chance at the time.