The “Anti-Frost”

[Handy Johnson]

4 hours ago, basketballjones said:

You typed a lot of words to get to this point finally. 
 

Not only do I believe this to be obviously true, it’s historically true. He has the worst record of any Nebrasketball Coach than anyone on here can remember. 
 

I’m not sure what there’s even to argue? Only Nebraska basketball fans would be like, “gosh I dunno if we can find a coach who can win more than ~38 games in five years!!!?!?!”

Obviously his record in it’s totality sucks. But do you want him to build off of what he has NOW moving forward or as you suggest start completely over (again)??? I’m willing to see how this chapter unfolds & I have a hunch the answer will be obvious either way. 

[hskr4life]

7 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

Obviously his record in it’s totality sucks. But do you want him to build off of what he has NOW moving forward or as you suggest start completely over (again)??? I’m willing to see how this chapter unfolds & I have a hunch the answer will be obvious either way. 

 

I do worry that we'll be back to square 1 next year.  That's my biggest concern for an "improvement" year this year.  We once again lose our best guard and also lose our best post.  We'll probably see a few transfer.  It's not like we're a young team with 1-2 seniors who are small contributors and have a core of strong talent that's our bread and butter.

 

Can we BUILD off of a solid year?  That's the major question.  If this was year 2 I think it's a different story.  But it's not.  It's year 5.  That makes it a lot tougher.  With all of that being said-- post season isn't out of the question one bit this year.  We need to win a few of the close ones, lock down the vault, and steal a few on the road.

 

1. Don't play on Wednesday of the Big 10 tournament

2. Make the post season of some kind

 

If we can do the above, Fred is assured another year.

[basketballjones]

27 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

Obviously his record in it’s totality sucks. But do you want him to build off of what he has NOW moving forward or as you suggest start completely over (again)??? I’m willing to see how this chapter unfolds & I have a hunch the answer will be obvious either way. 

There’s a nearly equal chance he has to start over every year he’s been here. 

[brfrad]

I see the difference between Frost and Fred coming down to stubbornness.  Frost was going to make his system work come hell or high water.  It did not work in the Big 10.  Hoiberg has got a team that is focused on defense.  Much against a typical Hoiberg team.  I think that gives Hoiberg a little longer leash.  Now, if we go 3 - 17 in conference, we can't keep Fred.

[Handy Johnson]

2 hours ago, basketballjones said:

There’s a nearly equal chance he has to start over every year he’s been here. 

If you’re ready to cut ties with Fred I understand that. His B1G record now sits at an eye popping 10-52, but sitting in the Arena today it sure didn’t feel like that or look like that. As I said earlier, this won’t be a hard decision one or the other. 

[Faux Mike Peltz]

Anyone who thinks there is some magical number of minimum wins this season in order for Fred to be safe clearly doesn’t understand how Trev is evaluating. While we can’t have a total meltdown and go winless in conference play, Trev wants to see evidence that this is going to work. On the court and off. Chemistry. Unselfishness. Playing with 100% effort all the time. Fighting. Being well coached. Being competitive in games we aren’t favored.  Fred and Trev met and Fred laid out his vision and plan. If you look at last years team and culture of the program then vs now, it’s night and day. 
And yes, I’m basing this off of someone in my close network who is in Trev’s and has had an in depth conversation recently about the men’s basketball program. 

Edited December 11, 2022 by Faux Mike Peltz

[49r]

1 minute ago, Faux Mike Peltz said:

Anyone who thinks there is some magical number of minimum wins this season in order for Fred to be safe clearly doesn’t understand how Trev is evaluating. While we can’t have a total meltdown and go winless in conference play, Trev wants to see evidence that this is going to work. On the court and off. Chemistry. Unselfishness. Playing with 100% effort all the time. Fighting. Being well coached. Being competitive in games we aren’t favored.  Fred and Trev met and Fred ladies out his vision and plan. If you look at last years team and culture of the program then vs now, it’s night and day. 
And yes, I’m basing this off of someone in my close network who is in Trev’s and has had an in depth conversation recently about the men’s basketball program. 

 

I have no doubt that this is correct.  However, I think the more wins this team gets this year, the easier the decision is going to be for Trev to retain Fred.  Conversely the fewer wins, the more difficult.  And the final record will absolutely be a product of chemistry, effort and discipline of course.  What we can do is speculate on what kind of record would be the result of an acceptable level of the factors you mention against our schedule.

[basketballjones]

15 minutes ago, Faux Mike Peltz said:

Anyone who thinks there is some magical number of minimum wins this season in order for Fred to be safe clearly doesn’t understand how Trev is evaluating. While we can’t have a total meltdown and go winless in conference play, Trev wants to see evidence that this is going to work. On the court and off. Chemistry. Unselfishness. Playing with 100% effort all the time. Fighting. Being well coached. Being competitive in games we aren’t favored.  Fred and Trev met and Fred ladies out his vision and plan. If you look at last years team and culture of the program then vs now, it’s night and day. 
And yes, I’m basing this off of someone in my close network who is in Trev’s and has had an in depth conversation recently about the men’s basketball program. 

I agree with all of this. I’ve kind of been backed into a corner as the fire Hoiberg guy, when in all reality I am not that guy - it just seems all so painfully obvious that the story is already written. 

[Faux Mike Peltz]

3 minutes ago, 49r said:

 

I have no doubt that this is correct.  However, I think the more wins this team gets this year, the easier the decision is going to be for Trev to retain Fred.  Conversely the fewer wins, the more difficult.  And the final record will absolutely be a product of chemistry, effort and discipline of course.  What we can do is speculate on what kind of record would be the result of an acceptable level of the factors you mention against our schedule.

100%. I think most on here want to see this work. I’m tired of making a change in coaches every four or five years. I wish things had worked out with Tim, I really do. And now, I hope they work with Fred. Trev had other sensitivities and influences on keeping Frost heading into this most recent season. He even said, there isn’t a whole lot of empirical data that suggests this will work. But at the end of the day, we all know wins and losses matter. I hope we can continue to play this way, it’ll transfer to some nice wins 

[Art Vandalay]

1 hour ago, Faux Mike Peltz said:

Anyone who thinks there is some magical number of minimum wins this season in order for Fred to be safe clearly doesn’t understand how Trev is evaluating. While we can’t have a total meltdown and go winless in conference play, Trev wants to see evidence that this is going to work. On the court and off. Chemistry. Unselfishness. Playing with 100% effort all the time. Fighting. Being well coached. Being competitive in games we aren’t favored.  Fred and Trev met and Fred ladies out his vision and plan. If you look at last years team and culture of the program then vs now, it’s night and day. 
And yes, I’m basing this off of someone in my close network who is in Trev’s and has had an in depth conversation recently about the men’s basketball program. 

I have a friend who is very close to Trev as well and he would agree with what you’ve laid out. This is a different relationship than Frost that is why I was sure the stuff about him being fired before Xmas were not true at all.

 

I will add one other thing big for Trev is fan engagement / support. We need to keep showing up and supporting this team like yesterday.

[hskr4life]

15 minutes ago, Art Vandalay said:

 

 

I will add one other thing big for Trev is fan engagement / support. We need to keep showing up and supporting this team like yesterday.

 

 

That support will continue if we win.  Unfortunately-- if we start racking up losses (even if they are close) then that support will die off.

[Faux Mike Peltz]

Trev typically doesn’t comment after a loss or a single game but he has now after CU and yesterday. He thanked the team for their fight and he thanked the fans for making PBA what it can be. Man I’m a critical fan but I want this to work so bad. And my post wasn’t pointed at any one individual poster on here, just more to say, Trev did not give Fred a “win this amount or else” ultimatum 

[millerhusker]

On 12/10/2022 at 8:58 PM, hskr4life said:

 

I do worry that we'll be back to square 1 next year.  That's my biggest concern for an "improvement" year this year.  We once again lose our best guard and also lose our best post.  We'll probably see a few transfer.  It's not like we're a young team with 1-2 seniors who are small contributors and have a core of strong talent that's our bread and butter.

 

Can we BUILD off of a solid year?  That's the major question.  If this was year 2 I think it's a different story.  But it's not.  It's year 5.  That makes it a lot tougher.  With all of that being said-- post season isn't out of the question one bit this year.  We need to win a few of the close ones, lock down the vault, and steal a few on the road.

 

1. Don't play on Wednesday of the Big 10 tournament

2. Make the post season of some kind

 

If we can do the above, Fred is assured another year.

It won't be the same kind of starting over that Fred did his first three years. There is now a culture in place that there wasn't before, thanks to Fred's change in plans (encouraged by Trev) and the new assistant coaches and transfers who have helped build that culture. I've been pretty amazed with the jobs Howard and Zeigler are doing, and Fred's willingness to change. These changes are sustainable.

I've heard Trev is viewing this as year 1 and he really doesn't want to go through another coaching search. 

 

Aleks Maric's senior year, we finished 7th in the Big 12. Our team completely revolved around him. Nobody else averaged more than 9 ppg. Nobody outside of Lincoln, or most people in Lincoln, could name another player on that team. Going into the next year, we were picked to finish last in the conference. On paper, it should've been Nebraska's worst team maybe ever. There was no young core of talent returning. Steve Harley, Paul Velander, Brandon Richardson... love those guys, but they wouldn't have earned a scholarship at any other Big 12 school. In fact, they didn't have any other power 5 offers. Chris Balham was literally our only big and he didn't have knees. Most of the time, Ryan Anderson (6'4") or Ade (6'5") were playing "center". They went on to finish 18-13 overall and .500 in the Big 12. I didn't think we'd win that many games that year, but there should've been no doubt that we'd at least be competitive. Because of the culture. They didn't have the best, or most talented, players. But they had the right players and the right coaches for that culture. I shared this example prior to this season when expectations were at an all time low and pessimism (and frankly hate) were at an all time high. I'd never seen such hate on here prior to a season starting. In multiple threads, I said something along the lines of "you negative nancy's will fall in love with this team before too long." And that seems to have happened. Many on here weren't sure Sam could play at this level. Personally, I didn't think Bandoumel would be as impactful as he is. Some on here didn't disagree with Shatel about Creighton having 10 players better than our best player. 

 

People forget about preseason expectations pretty quickly once the season starts. And people don't seem to realize how vastly different the product on the court usually is from those expectations. Purdue wasn't ranked early this year. They lost almost everyone. All they had was Edey, who had his limitations last year, and a bunch of unknowns. Their stud freshman guards weren't 5 stars - Braden Smith wasn't ranked at all and his only other offers were Appalachian State and Belmont (wow). 

Point is, once you have a culture established - especially one of toughness, togetherness and defense - you no longer have to start over year to year. Even if you lose your best players. 

 

I hope we keep our coaching staff intact, keep all/most of our roster intact and add a couple impact transfers who fit this culture that this year's transfers helped build. All the returning players clearly have bought in. Quaran will fit in seamlessly. The team defensive transformation is nothing short of amazing. That should carry over, regardless of who's on the roster. And that alone can make opposing coaches dread coming Lincoln like they did in the Doc days (which can't be said about Hoiberg's previous teams and most of Miles' teams). Hoiberg is also still a great offensive mind. Under Hoiberg, we've shared the ball better and have more assists per made field goals than any Husker teams since the Nee era (even with all the me first players we've had the last three years). If we can find a scorer or two in the portal who buy in to the current culture, who knows what will happen. 

[cornfed24-7]

34 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

If we can find a scorer or two in the portal who buy in to the current culture, who knows what will happen.

Those are really big ifs. Look I'm on record stating I was completely wrong about this years team. And I applaud Hoiberg for the job he's doing this season. But to view this year as year 1 is silly in my view. Don't get me wrong, gun to my head at this very moment, I say Hoiberg gets another year. But there's a lot of season left. And a culture might be established in a year, but maintaining it is a completely different beast. Hoiberg isn't going to have old man Walker and a kid that grew up whose dream it was to play for Nebraska in Griesel next year.

Edited December 12, 2022 by cornfed24-7

[89Husker]

I remember when Frost was brought back, there was so much consternation about what if he were to achieve a 6-6/7-5 record. What would we do then??

I had a feeling then, as i do now, that we were going to get a feast or famine result.  For Frost, it became obvious early it was famine and made the firing easy. 

With Fred, then next 5 games could tell us all we need to know.  If he could go 3-2 or 4-1, this is going to be feast. Anything less, it may get to famine.

[millerhusker]

9 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

Those are really big ifs. Look I'm on record stating I was completely wrong about this years team. And I applaud Hoiberg for the job he's doing this season. But to view this year as year 1 is silly in my view. Don't get me wrong, gun to my head at this very moment, I say Hoiberg gets another year. But there's a lot of season left. And a culture might be established in a year, but maintaining it is a completely different beast. Hoiberg isn't going to have old man Walker and a kid that grew up whose dream it was to play for Nebraska in Griesel next year.

I just think the notion that people have that "the roster we'll have next year will not be competitive" is kind of silly.  And I don't think those "ifs" are what will determine whether or not we're competitive. It's actually harder to truly establish a culture than it is to maintain it. It's not hard to maintain a culture, especially if you have continuity. Now, if Howard were to take a head coaching job and multiple players were to transfer, it may feel like we're starting over again. 

[cornfed24-7]

3 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

I just think the notion that people have that "the roster we'll have next year will not be competitive" is kind of silly.  And I don't think those "ifs" are what will determine whether or not we're competitive. It's actually harder to truly establish a culture than it is to maintain it. It's not hard to maintain a culture, especially if you have continuity. Now, if Howard were to take a head coaching job and multiple players were to transfer, it may feel like we're starting over again. 

I agree. Especially after this year. I absolutely did not think we would be competitive. Transfer portal is the wild card next year. But I do think he needs to strike gold in it. And that gold better not have an attitude problem and value a team 1st approach.

[millerhusker]

16 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I agree. Especially after this year. I absolutely did not think we would be competitive. Transfer portal is the wild card next year. But I do think he needs to strike gold in it. And that gold better not have an attitude problem and value a team 1st approach.

I don't think it's a coincidence or luck that we were three for three on portal players who value a team first approach and defense. I believe that was a prerequisite. And I do believe that was strongly encouraged by Trev. He means it when he says all he wants in a basketball team is a product that Nebraskans can be proud to watch. It is easy to sort those players out after a conversation and watching body language on film. Cam Mack was practicing his crowd arrow shooting in junior college and telling people he was a one and done lottery pick before he got to Nebraska. Juwan Gary just wanted to grab offensive rebounds and play defense. 

[hhcmatt]

44 minutes ago, millerhusker said:

I just think the notion that people have that "the roster we'll have next year will not be competitive" is kind of silly.  And I don't think those "ifs" are what will determine whether or not we're competitive. It's actually harder to truly establish a culture than it is to maintain it. It's not hard to maintain a culture, especially if you have continuity. Now, if Howard were to take a head coaching job and multiple players were to transfer, it may feel like we're starting over again. 

 

Agree with this; there are always dudes. The thing Nebraska seems to have is a blueprint for the type of team they want to build which makes identifying the right players easier and for the most part it's not just the guys that everyone else wants.

[hskr4life]

I also don’t think we can look at this as a year one.  In year one, a Creighton win in Omaha, a bunch of close losses, and a solid chemistry/team that works hard looks a lot different than that same scenario in year 5.

[HuskerBB]

I think we are seeing this year what impact a player like Emmanuel Bandoumel has on the team "culture" if you want to call it that.   I can't remember seeing a kid work as hard on the defensive end as he did last Saturday - and has done all year.     Really wish we would have him for another year (or more).   Also wonder what last year might have been like with a player like that on the team.   Effort can be contagious - and I think he might have been a leader that demanded more effort out of Bryce and more team-oriented play out of Alonzo.    We will never know obviously - but I think ultimately that is what you need the abiliity to pair that high level talent with maximum effort and team play.

 

[Navin R. Johnson]

20 minutes ago, HuskerBB said:

I think we are seeing this year what impact a player like Emmanuel Bandoumel has on the team "culture" if you want to call it that.   I can't remember seeing a kid work as hard on the defensive end as he did last Saturday - and has done all year.     Really wish we would have him for another year (or more).   Also wonder what last year might have been like with a player like that on the team.   Effort can be contagious - and I think he might have been a leader that demanded more effort out of Bryce and more team-oriented play out of Alonzo.    We will never know obviously - but I think ultimately that is what you need the abiliity to pair that high level talent with maximum effort and team play.

 

 

 

It would be interesting to see what the team would be like it Bryce came back for his Sophomore year.  

[Huskerpapa]

It is so important to establish an identity-culture-team character that you can then recruit to.  Frost never did this to his demise.  Bo had one.  Billy C sort of had one.  Doc and Tim sort of had one as well.

Here is the deal though, we have to be able to shoot and score.  Defense and effort are grea; but you still have to outscore your opponent each trip out.

[Handy Johnson]

On 12/12/2022 at 1:47 PM, Navin R. Johnson said:

 

 

It would be interesting to see what the team would be like it Bryce came back for his Sophomore year.  

How’s this Starting Five:

Walker 

Griesel

Bandoumel 

T. McGowens

B. McGowens 

 

 

[hskr4life]

5 hours ago, Handy Johnson said:

How’s this Starting Five:

Walker 

Griesel

Bandoumel 

T. McGowens

B. McGowens 

 

 

Wilcher, Tominaga, Gary, Kieta off the bench too.