At this point, if things keep going this way ...

[HuskerFever]

30 minutes ago, hhcscott said:

For Fred to walk away without full buyout, while the right thing to do, would be seen as a dangerous precedent.

The one thing that Nebraska needs to work on is finding a way to offer incentives that make success more profitable than failure buyouts. We seem to have abandoned the idea that success leads to wealth...we pay more for potential than we do for proof.

My wife is begging me to get a job that I can fail into a million plus $$$$.

 

I hear there might be an opening at a Power-5 basketball school that can pay you millions to fail miserably. You should check it out!

[unl]

I think these guys come back likely:

 

Wilcher

Breidenbach

Walker

 

Probably Trey, Keisei, Quaran...Dawson...

 

I don't think Bryce, Lat, Andre, or Edwards come back. 

 

I'm not really sure it matters, until we figure out what is more likely- that Fred replaces a new assistant. 

 

Then Trev is going to have to meet with Fred and tell him what he wants: number of wins? postseason appearance? heck, just a team that shows passion unlike against Northwestern at home. 

 

I would say if Nebraska were a basketball school, it'd be more likely to fork up the buyout. I just am having a hard time believing we part ways with a huge price tag. But like many have asked, what's the issue here? 1) Do players hate Fred? 2) Has college changed too much since Fred was at ISU? Is Nebraska just that much harder to obtain success than other colleges like ISU? 

 

I think back to Tim's last year a lot. We said going into the year, "He knows it and everyone knows it, that he has to get to the NCAA tournament or else."  I think that was flawed because Nebraska has no blueprint. Decent coaches have come here with success at previous stops and faltered here. I'm not all about this 5 year turnaround all the time. If we get a guy like Tim Miles, I think we have to ride it out. Is Fred that? He dang well should be. It's really an easy fix IMO. Guys have to buy in, pass the ball, and communicate. No more possessions with 0-1 pass unless you have an open layup. No more letting Northwestern shoot a 3 with the nearest defender 20 feet away standing still. We have bodies - get back to the basics.

 

I took my 5 year old twins to the game today, and they got bored/sad that we lost and have lost so much. I can keep their interest in the games, but each game starts with eyes peeled and ends with....bleh. I hate this. I just want to see Tim Miles-like success here. At least we were talked about. Fix this. Please!

[Ron Mexico]

23 hours ago, hhcscott said:

For Fred to walk away without full buyout, while the right thing to do, would be seen as a dangerous precedent.

The one thing that Nebraska needs to work on is finding a way to offer incentives that make success more profitable than failure buyouts. We seem to have abandoned the idea that success leads to wealth...we pay more for potential than we do for proof.

My wife is begging me to get a job that I can fail into a million plus $$$$.

You want $18.5 mill here's how you can get it, but your base salary is going to be this amount.

Buyout of your contract will get you a full 75% of what we owe you for the remainder of your contract.

I honestly don't understand why this is so hard.

TO had an average base salary that was very heavily incentive laden which included his assistant coaches.

[HuskerFever]

Just now, Ron Mexico said:

You want $18.5 mill here's how you can get it, but your base salary is going to be this amount.

Buyout of your contract will get you a full 75% of what we owe you for the remainder of your contract.

I honestly don't understand why this is so hard.

TO had an average base salary that was very heavily incentive laden which included his assistant coaches.

 

Osborne treated the athletic department like it was his business, while Moos treated it like house money in Vegas.

[Ron Mexico]

Just now, HuskerFever said:

 

Osborne treated the athletic department like it was his business, while Moos treated it like house money in Vegas.

TO also loved this state and University and lived a life of service. 

[nustudent]

On 2/2/2022 at 5:56 PM, Ron Mexico said:

I disagree with @nustudent of the mess Miles left. Miles didn't leave a mess our previous 2 AD's did. One for basically withdrawing any kind of support, the other for the bloated contract extension. Also, it doesn't take 5yrs to turn around a basketball program.

What's going to happen:

Renegotiated contract with lowered buyout and results oriented incentive bonuses added. Trev will also publicly and behind the scenes give FH everything he needs to succeed. There is no way that Trev wants to have to deal with firing a basketball coach anytime soon and thus he's going to give FH whatever he needs. He is likely going to assist FH with some staff changes. We already know about Doc. I think one or both of Armon and Matt are gone. I'm leaning towards Armon. He then needs to bring a couple of bench coaches who can help him clean things up. For sure one or both needs to be African American. Think lower level D1 or D2 assistants.

Since we know that Doc is gone could probably start a thread on assistant coaches.

Loenser isn't going anywhere. Could also see some "administrative" changes as well.

 

Heard on good authority that both Trey and Derrick are leaning towards coming back next year. This would avoid a complete roster flip. We would only be losing Bryce, Verge and Webster. 

 

 

I think you meant to tag Diehard rather than me.  That being said, I agree Fred was left a mess from a returning talent perspective.   But that doesn’t mean he’s not culpable in what’s going on right now.   
If we can’t afford $20M for football, we can’t afford $18.5M for basketball. So he’ll keep his job moreso for that than the direction we’re heading.   
 

im sure there will be some reworking of the contract in case he wins 7 again next year.  

[Blackshirt83]

I don't see any way they fire Hoiberg before next year. Which means you need to give him something he can recruit on but also make an adjustment to his contract. Best way might be to keep the same dollar amount but add an extra year to the back end. So while his last extension ran through March 31, 2027 and added $3.5M to the deal, his new deal would run through March 31st 2028 but add $0 to the deal. Giving him the ability to recruit well but save the university money. It essentially makes this season a freebie for Nebraska while still technically extending the contract for recruiting.

 

I would also like to see a provision where a. The contract automatically adjusts back to where the extra $3.5M gets reapplied in as soon as he wins an ncaa tournament game. So he gets back to net neutral with an extra year on top. And b. If Nebraska doesn't go .500 next season the buyout gets lowered and if there's no tournament bid by 2027 it gets lowered further. Along with the tournament win triggering a readjusting the contract language to add back the extra salary it would also reset the buyout to current.

 

 

As for assistants.. Doc will do what he's expected to do after the season. And we will see what happens with that.

 

Abdelmassith did his job on the wings. Anyone thinking he should be let go is nuts to me.

 

I also think Loenser has done well but he above everyone not named Fred Hoiberg is the one who I think kobe's radio comments might say a change is needed. This is the guy that should be holding many of these guys accountable. But I would maybe give him a year to see if things improve. There's no denying that while the losses suck, he's helped guys improve and I want to see how this front court looks next year before I judge fully.

 

That all said, Armon Gates. I don't understand what the problem is but how do you go from turning out all conference point guards at Northwestern and helping Glynn Watson have his run (though Gates didn't recruit Watson) to bringing in Cam Mack and the utterly futile pg hole this year? I know that losing Banton was a little late and a bit of a shock but what was your plan here? Verge is a good player but what is the deal? And who is the next pg? Did you recruit one? If there's any shakeup of the staff I think Gates is where you have to start. PG recruiting and development hasn't exactly been great and while credit for Banton is warranted does it get offset by the utterly season destroying production of the pg position as of late? I don't know.

 

I think the biggest changes need to be in mindset rather than personnel, but who knows at this point. If It were me I would restructure Hoiberg's deal as above. And make it perfectly clear that the assistant coaches are in a one year save or die situation. Either the players show marked improvement in production yes but moreover defensive accountability, and Honestly the basic ability to play together and play fundamentally sound, team basketball. And improvement in the recruiting efforts of Gates for sure (expecially when looking at team cohesion) but also improvement in the front court from Loenser expecially block out and rebounding.

[hhcmatt]

53 minutes ago, Blackshirt83 said:

Abdelmassith did his job on the wings. Anyone thinking he should be let go is nuts to me.

 

53 minutes ago, Blackshirt83 said:

That all said, Matt Abdelmassih. I don't understand what the problem is but how do you go from bringing in Cam Mack to the utterly futile pg hole this year? I know that losing Banton was a little late and a bit of a shock but what was your plan here? Verge is a good player but what is the deal? And who is the next pg? Did you recruit one? If there's any shakeup of the staff I think Abdelmassih is where you have to start. PG recruiting and development hasn't exactly been great and while credit for Banton is warranted does it get offset by the utterly season destroying production of the pg position as of late? I don't know.

 

Things become clearer (or confusing) when you attribute the right shortcomings to the right people.

 

[Fullbacksympathy]

40 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

 

Things become clearer (or confusing) when you attribute the right shortcomings to the right people.

 

 

This, although MA seems to have brought in another decent class for next season.  This is on Fred for a lack of discipline, IMO.  I don't think he knows how to motivate entitled players, which means he needs to step in and recruit guys like him--high character kids who don't need motivation in the same sense because they love the game too much not to have pride in how they play every possession.  That's how he was.  That's who he needs.  

 

With regard to the above problem of motivation, Gates is the absolute last person on staff we should let go.  

[kldm64]

Clearly Doc needs to go.  He bring no value at all.  Regardless of how well the other assistants are doing, at least one of them will have to go.  There is no way you can sell bringing back all your assistants doing the same thing and expect different results.  Fred is going to have to make some changes in several aspects of this program.  That is assuming he is giving one more year which is not a guarantee at this point.

[HuskerFever]

3 hours ago, Blackshirt83 said:

I don't see any way they fire Hoiberg before next year. Which means you need to give him something he can recruit on but also make an adjustment to his contract. Best way might be to keep the same dollar amount but add an extra year to the back end. So while his last extension ran through March 31, 2027 and added $3.5M to the deal, his new deal would run through March 31st 2028 but add $0 to the deal. Giving him the ability to recruit well but save the university money. It essentially makes this season a freebie for Nebraska while still technically extending the contract for recruiting.

 

His contract goes through 2027. I'm not sure how extending him another year (even at $0 expense) helps recruiting. Even if a player stayed 5 seasons, he'd be under Hoiberg's entire contract.

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

28 minutes ago, kldm64 said:

Clearly Doc needs to go.  He bring no value at all.  Regardless of how well the other assistants are doing, at least one of them will have to go.  There is no way you can sell bringing back all your assistants doing the same thing and expect different results.  Fred is going to have to make some changes in several aspects of this program.  That is assuming he is giving one more year which is not a guarantee at this point.

And you know Doc brings no value how?

[Blackshirt83]

1 hour ago, hhcmatt said:

 

 

Things become clearer (or confusing) when you attribute the right shortcomings to the right people.

 

Explain?

 

From what I understand they have the guys classified into 3 groups. Bigs, Wings, and Guards (pointguards)

 

And I don't know where this notion that one guy is recruiting the entire roster but it's not even remotely correct. It seemed to be the case when Abdlemassih was at St. Johns but not here. Each coach is in charge of one group.

 

Gates is in charge of the point guards. That's easily our worst position and where much of our issues are. Wether it's players not being good fits or simply not being good point guards, aside from Banton it's been a rough ride and it doesn't look like it gets better next year. Who's running the point next season?

 

Abdelmassih's primary role is recruiting, especially the wings. He did that pretty well. - we have several highly ranked classes and a couple nba kids on the roster. Haven't said that in a while.

Loenser is our best on floor development coach. It doesn't look like it with the record but several players have had some advancements. But accountability is an issue and other than Fred (fred gets 90% of the blame) this is the guy I would put most of the rest of that on. he's definitely our best floor coach as far as the assistants go. Adjustments needed but a little more authority and accountability could probably help.

 

- I think Loesner is in charge of recruiting the Bigs but I'm not sure. Possibly getting help from Holt? I'm not sure who our primary on bigs is but I assume it's him or Abdelmassih. 

 

Doc doesn't recruit and just helps Fred and orchestrates the defense. He's a non factor going forward I believe if I hear correctly.

 

And Katsantonis just handles the portal stuff. Among other non recruiting duties.

 

If you're going to make a switch Gates seems the obvious choice. And I think Gates is a terrific coach. I wouldn't fire any of them. I would make adjustments and fix the problems. I don't know why we keep bringing in bad fits at pg. But he's the guy coaching them.

 

Loenser and Abdelmassih at  least have shown to be able to do what they need to do here under Fred and our point guards have been our problem. What exactly am I missing?

 

If you think we're recruiting the wrong guys, okay but that's on the head coach. Hire a recruiting coordinator who evaluates the recruits these guys target to provide oversight if you want. But how bout we don't fire the guy who's bringing 5 star NBA talent to Lincoln AND signing them just because things aren't working elsewhere. 

 

[Blackshirt83]

27 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

His contract goes through 2027. I'm not sure how extending him another year (even at $0 expense) helps recruiting. Even if a player stayed 5 seasons, he'd be under Hoiberg's entire contract.

 

It shows you're not just giving him a year because his contract number is so high.  Every coach recruiting against us will say Fred is only here for a year to get his contract number down and then he's gone after the season. You can nip that in the bud AND spread the payments you are paying out a little bit. Like I said it's basically making this season a freebie without lowering his overall payout AND giving recruits a reason to see this being more than a one and done pump and dump cash rideout. It also gives Fred a potential extra year and $3.5M payout if he does well in exchange for lowering the buyout if it doesn't improve. Otherwise why would Fred agree to lower the buyout? You gotta give something up and this is basically a no lose way to do it.

Edited February 15, 2022 by Blackshirt83

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

12 minutes ago, Blackshirt83 said:

Explain?

 

From what I understand they have the guys classified into 3 groups. Bigs, Wings, and Guards (pointguards)

 

And I don't know where this notion that one guy is recruiting the entire roster but it's not even remotely correct. It seemed to be the case when Abdlemassih was at St. Johns but not here. Each coach is in charge of one group.

 

Gates is in charge of the point guards. That's easily our worst position and where much of our issues are. Wether it's players not being good fits or simply not being good point guards, aside from Banton it's been a rough ride and it doesn't look like it gets better next year. Who's running the point next season?

 

Abdelmassih's primary role is recruiting, especially the wings. He did that pretty well. - we have several highly ranked classes and a couple nba kids on the roster. Haven't said that in a while.

Loenser is our best on floor development coach. It doesn't look like it with the record but several players have had some advancements. But accountability is an issue and other than Fred (fred gets 90% of the blame) this is the guy I would put most of the rest of that on. he's definitely our best floor coach as far as the assistants go. Adjustments needed but a little more authority and accountability could probably help.

 

- I think Loesner is in charge of recruiting the Bigs but I'm not sure. Possibly getting help from Holt? I'm not sure who our primary on bigs is but I assume it's him or Abdelmassih. 

 

Doc doesn't recruit and just helps Fred and orchestrates the defense. He's a non factor going forward I believe if I hear correctly.

 

And Katsantonis just handles the portal stuff. Among other non recruiting duties.

 

If you're going to make a switch Gates seems the obvious choice. And I think Gates is a terrific coach. I wouldn't fire any of them. I would make adjustments and fix the problems. I don't know why we keep bringing in bad fits at pg. But he's the guy coaching them.

 

Loenser and Abdelmassih at  least have shown to be able to do what they need to do here under Fred and our point guards have been our problem. What exactly am I missing?

 

If you think we're recruiting the wrong guys, okay but that's on the head coach. Hire a recruiting coordinator who evaluates the recruits these guys target to provide oversight if you want. But how bout we don't fire the guy who's bringing 5 star NBA talent to Lincoln AND signing them just because things aren't working elsewhere. 

 

You are wildly off base with all of that. 

[royalfan]

1 hour ago, kldm64 said:

Clearly Doc needs to go.  He bring no value at all.  Regardless of how well the other assistants are doing, at least one of them will have to go.  There is no way you can sell bringing back all your assistants doing the same thing and expect different results.  Fred is going to have to make some changes in several aspects of this program.  That is assuming he is giving one more year which is not a guarantee at this point.

 

Yeah Doc is a negative value.  No recruiting, his defensive schemes are horrific.  Absolutely nothing good is being done by him.  Looks about ready to fall asleep over there on sidelines.  The days of having fire and passion are long gone for Doc.  

[Blackshirt83]

9 minutes ago, CrazyforNUHOOPS said:

You are wildly off base with all of that. 

Again Explain.

 

It was literally the first word of my post.

[royalfan]

34 minutes ago, CrazyforNUHOOPS said:

And you know Doc brings no value how?

Have you watched our defense play?  He never was a good recruiter.  

[hhcmatt]

5 minutes ago, Blackshirt83 said:

Again Explain.

 

It was literally the first word of my post.

 

Your point of view is based on a poor interpretation of what you think is happening as opposed to what is actually happening. Half your post is filled with "I assume" so I don't understand why you think you're the one who is on the money.

 

Thus you are happy with Matt for recruiting some wings while simultaneously not happy with Matt for not recruiting a PG.

[Huskerpapa]

Doc is not an assistant.  But I guess he could be fired just to placate the fans.

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

25 minutes ago, royalfan said:

Have you watched our defense play?  He never was a good recruiter.  

Doc is not an assistant coach and has no coaching or recruiting responsibilities. 

[49r]

I unfollowed Doc on twitter a few weeks ago.  My twitter feed has become a whole lot less cluttered.

[Blackshirt83]

2 hours ago, royalfan said:

Have you watched our defense play?  He never was a good recruiter.  

Doc has no actual coaching or recruiting role. He is the special assistant to the head coach. That means he watches practice but doesn't do any coaching. Sits in on coaches meetings and offers advice. He also can act as a person to represent the program during certain events and speaking engagements. Etc.

 

I know people hate football comparisons around here but firing Doc cause the basketball team sucks is akin to firing Matt Davison because the football team sucks.

[CrazyforNUHOOPS]

6 hours ago, Blackshirt83 said:

 

That all said, Armon Gates. I don't understand what the problem is but how do you go from turning out all conference point guards at Northwestern and helping Glynn Watson have his run (though Gates didn't recruit Watson) to bringing in Cam Mack and the utterly futile pg hole this year?

Gates was only here for one year with Glynn and had absolutely nothing to do with Cam Mack coming to play for Nebraska. 
 

Where are you getting this stuff?

[Jugular]

3 hours ago, Blackshirt83 said:

Explain?

 

From what I understand they have the guys classified into 3 groups. Bigs, Wings, and Guards (pointguards)

 

And I don't know where this notion that one guy is recruiting the entire roster but it's not even remotely correct. It seemed to be the case when Abdlemassih was at St. Johns but not here. Each coach is in charge of one group.

 

Gates is in charge of the point guards. That's easily our worst position and where much of our issues are. Wether it's players not being good fits or simply not being good point guards, aside from Banton it's been a rough ride and it doesn't look like it gets better next year. Who's running the point next season?

 

Abdelmassih's primary role is recruiting, especially the wings. He did that pretty well. - we have several highly ranked classes and a couple nba kids on the roster. Haven't said that in a while.

Loenser is our best on floor development coach. It doesn't look like it with the record but several players have had some advancements. But accountability is an issue and other than Fred (fred gets 90% of the blame) this is the guy I would put most of the rest of that on. he's definitely our best floor coach as far as the assistants go. Adjustments needed but a little more authority and accountability could probably help.

 

- I think Loesner is in charge of recruiting the Bigs but I'm not sure. Possibly getting help from Holt? I'm not sure who our primary on bigs is but I assume it's him or Abdelmassih. 

 

Doc doesn't recruit and just helps Fred and orchestrates the defense. He's a non factor going forward I believe if I hear correctly.

 

And Katsantonis just handles the portal stuff. Among other non recruiting duties.

 

If you're going to make a switch Gates seems the obvious choice. And I think Gates is a terrific coach. I wouldn't fire any of them. I would make adjustments and fix the problems. I don't know why we keep bringing in bad fits at pg. But he's the guy coaching them.

 

Loenser and Abdelmassih at  least have shown to be able to do what they need to do here under Fred and our point guards have been our problem. What exactly am I missing?

 

If you think we're recruiting the wrong guys, okay but that's on the head coach. Hire a recruiting coordinator who evaluates the recruits these guys target to provide oversight if you want. But how bout we don't fire the guy who's bringing 5 star NBA talent to Lincoln AND signing them just because things aren't working elsewhere. 

 

Outside of Matt, the others arent allowed to do as much. Due to what I’d guess is outside pressure, Fred has sent Loenser out a little more. Gates will have opportunities after the season I’m sure.  Matt is just a massive fraud. Fred hitched his wagon to someone that is better suited to assembling a fantasy basketball roster instead of putting together a team that fits together. I’d argue that outside of Bryce, he’s brought in nobody that would start at any NCAA tournament team in the B10. But hey, since he’s brought in some guys that were rated high coming out of high school, he has our star gazing fans eating out of his hands.
 

Craig Smith, Kenya Hunter and Michael Lewis were easily better recruiters than Matty A. And all three have forgot more about actual coaching than Matty has ever known