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3 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Cross is going to be a 4 next year...Hoiberg constantly says he's playing out of position. 

 

Is Walker a typo? Did you mean someone else?  In two years at Tennessee Walker didn't attempt a 3pt shot and is a career 36.6% 3pt shooter which possibly makes him the worst shooter on the team.

 

🤔

 

Typo?

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I may not have a crystal ball, but I can predict with a high degree of certainty that our lineup will not resemble this.  

I'd say the best comparison to a recent former Husker is to Roby's classmate, Jeriah Horne. That's who Cross most resembles.

So does that mean we  have to say he doesn't know good he is for the next few years?😐

9 hours ago, millerhusker said:

They did. I think the one thing we can both agree on is that the staff will continue to recruit better players who are better fits than the guys we currently have, as all teams do. They put this entire roster together in about 6 weeks and did a pretty darn impressive job of it.

The bigs we’re recruiting in the 2021 class will be more to your liking. But until then either Yvan or Derrick will be our starting 5. We’ll just have to agree to disagree if you think Brady was the answer. The staff didn’t think he was a good fit after individual and team workouts in the spring. Obviously, I’m trusting their judgement over anyone else’s.

Cross has a quicker release than Roby. Has good balance. Keeps his elbow in. He gets his left thumb in there a little bit more than I’d like but so do 95% of NBA players. Did you think Roby was a bad shooter his freshman year?

Factually untrue. Ohio States four other guys in that rotation are all 6’1” to 6’3”. Going forward, the “other guys” we’ll have available will include Thor, Banton, Shamiel, Teddy. 

All good points. To be clear I don’t think Brady was “the answer” just that he had a small chance to become a good stretch 5 and that they didn’t have to force out everyone. Samari (who should’ve played more) and Kavas who won’t be here next season and is hardly playable now shouldn’t have taken his or Amir’s spot. If we decided it didn’t work out this season I wouldn’t have any problem with that. 
 

 

7 hours ago, LK1 said:

 

 

This. Kid is better than Roby was as a freshman.  He’s going to be a terror here. 

First of all I guess I don’t really care how well he plays this season there was basically a consensus in an HHC poll that we won’t be in the NIT discussion. So I only care about building for next year. That’s part of the reason I think not playing Samari was crazy. Looking at the stats you have an argument that Cross will be better in his freshman year. I think that would’ve been different if Roby was a Hoiberg system. Cross is shooting 27% from 3 and to compound that most of them are completely wide open. He’s 5 for 13 on free throws. It is possible that he will learn to shoot I just don’t think it will be probable. And based on the evidence I have he’s a bad shooter. Further he is undersized less athletic and less long then Roby. Size athleticism and strength tend to be signs of a high potential player to me. 
I think it mainly just comes down to shooting. I honestly don’t have a problem with him shooting the threes he’s taking. Like I said I only care about development this year and maybe he can develop that. But I don’t take “good mechanics” over stats. Are their stats that I’m missing that make you think otherwise?

 

8 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

You do not yet understand the greatness of Kevin Cross but it's ok, you'l get there.

 

I did when I was watching his high school highlights until I realized he was actually 6’5” hopefully I’ll come back around.

Edited by cjbowbros
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2 hours ago, cjbowbros said:

All good points. To be clear I don’t think Brady was “the answer” just that he had a small chance to become a good stretch 5 and that they didn’t have to force out everyone. Samari (who should’ve played more) and Kavas who won’t be here next season and is hardly playable now shouldn’t have taken his or Amir’s spot. If we decided it didn’t work out this season I wouldn’t have any problem with that. 
 

 

First of all I guess I don’t really care how well he plays this season there was basically a consensus in an HHC poll that we won’t be in the NIT discussion. So I only care about building for next year. That’s part of the reason I think not playing Samari was crazy. Looking at the stats you have an argument that Cross will be better in his freshman year. I think that would’ve been different if Roby was a Hoiberg system. Cross is shooting 27% from 3 and to compound that most of them are completely wide open. He’s 5 for 13 on free throws. It is possible that he will learn to shoot I just don’t think it will be probable. And based on the evidence I have he’s a bad shooter. Further he is undersized less athletic and less long then Roby. Size athleticism and strength tend to be signs of a high potential player to me. 
I think it mainly just comes down to shooting. I honestly don’t have a problem with him shooting the threes he’s taking. Like I said I only care about development this year and maybe he can develop that. But I don’t take “good mechanics” over stats. Are their stats that I’m missing that make you think otherwise?

 

I did when I was watching his high school highlights until I realized he was actually 6’5” hopefully I’ll come back around.


Roby would’ve been developed better under Hoiberg—probably into the 1st round.  No question about that.  The biggest difference between Cross and Roby is Cross is naturally aggressive on both ends and doesn’t back down from anyone, even when he’s completely outmatched.  No one is going to have to ask him if he knows how good he is—he already thinks he’s good.  I like that out of the youngins.  Consider the Draymond comparison.  There are a ton of NBA players with more athletic upside than Draymond.  But they aren’t as good as he is at basketball, and a lot of that has to do with natural disposition.   
 

He and Roby actually had fairly similar skill sets coming in—high court IQ, good passing, point forward capabilities, good shot mechanics that need more work.  Cross is a much better ball handler at this age, though, and that REALLY matters at the 4 in Fred’s system.  

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45 minutes ago, LK1 said:


Roby would’ve been developed better under Hoiberg—probably into the 1st round.  No question about that.  The biggest difference between Cross and Roby is Cross is naturally aggressive on both ends and doesn’t back down from anyone, even when he’s completely outmatched.  No one is going to have to ask him if he knows how good he is—he already thinks he’s good.  I like that out of the youngins.  Consider the Draymond comparison.  There are a ton of NBA players with more athletic upside than Draymond.  But they aren’t as good as he is at basketball, and a lot of that has to do with natural disposition.   
 

He and Roby actually had fairly similar skill sets coming in—high court IQ, good passing, point forward capabilities, good shot mechanics that need more work.  Cross is a much better ball handler at this age, though, and that REALLY matters at the 4 in Fred’s system.  

 

You must be watching a completely different Kevin Cross than I'm seeing.  Aggression is certainly not "the biggest difference" I see btwn Cross and Roby.

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2 hours ago, cjbowbros said:

All good points. To be clear I don’t think Brady was “the answer” just that he had a small chance to become a good stretch 5 and that they didn’t have to force out everyone. Samari (who should’ve played more) and Kavas who won’t be here next season and is hardly playable now shouldn’t have taken his or Amir’s spot. If we decided it didn’t work out this season I wouldn’t have any problem with that. 
 

 

First of all I guess I don’t really care how well he plays this season there was basically a consensus in an HHC poll that we won’t be in the NIT discussion. So I only care about building for next year. That’s part of the reason I think not playing Samari was crazy. Looking at the stats you have an argument that Cross will be better in his freshman year. I think that would’ve been different if Roby was a Hoiberg system. Cross is shooting 27% from 3 and to compound that most of them are completely wide open. He’s 5 for 13 on free throws. It is possible that he will learn to shoot I just don’t think it will be probable. And based on the evidence I have he’s a bad shooter. Further he is undersized less athletic and less long then Roby. Size athleticism and strength tend to be signs of a high potential player to me. 
I think it mainly just comes down to shooting. I honestly don’t have a problem with him shooting the threes he’s taking. Like I said I only care about development this year and maybe he can develop that. But I don’t take “good mechanics” over stats. Are their stats that I’m missing that make you think otherwise?

 

I did when I was watching his high school highlights until I realized he was actually 6’5” hopefully I’ll come back around.


‘Fred thinks Cross is a good shooter so I will take his assessment, no offense. Once he gets in real shape and gets a little lift on his shot I am confident he can be a 35% guy.

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4 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

You must be watching a completely different Kevin Cross than I'm seeing.  Aggression is certainly not "the biggest difference" I see btwn Cross and Roby.


You are considering freshman Roby and not upperclassman Roby, correct?  Cross takes the shot without hesitation.  He initiates contact.  He creates offense.  Those are naturally aggressive plays.  
 

Also, lack of aggression and tentativeness was the criticism of Roby by everyone.  It will always be the biggest weakness in his game.  

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3 minutes ago, LK1 said:


You are considering freshman Roby and not upperclassman Roby, correct?  Cross takes the shot without hesitation.  He initiates contact.  He creates offense.  Those are naturally aggressive plays.  
 

Also, lack of aggression and tentativeness was the criticism of Roby by everyone.  It will always be the biggest weakness in his game.  


we were just talking about this. If Roby had Crosses confident and mindset he would have been a 20 & 10 guy and probably 1st rounder. Wish Cross had that much athleticism.

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Just now, LK1 said:


You are considering freshman Roby and not upperclassman Roby, correct?  Cross takes the shot without hesitation.  He initiates contact.  He creates offense.  Those are naturally aggressive plays.  
 

Also, lack of aggression and tentativeness was the criticism of Roby by everyone.  It will always be the biggest weakness in his game.  

 

I'm not debating that Cross is more aggressive than frosh Roby was.  Cross clearly is more aggressive.  But in my opinion the gap in athleticism, length, defense and shooting are all much more pronounced, and all favor freshman Roby.  I mean, Kevin can't even make a free throw at this point.  To say that aggression is the trait that most separates them seems like a bit of revisionist history to me.  Zay screamed "potential NBA player" as a freshman.  I'd be surprised to see Kevin make our rotation next year.

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45 minutes ago, aphilso1 said:

 

I'm not debating that Cross is more aggressive than frosh Roby was.  Cross clearly is more aggressive.  But in my opinion the gap in athleticism, length, defense and shooting are all much more pronounced, and all favor freshman Roby.  I mean, Kevin can't even make a free throw at this point.  To say that aggression is the trait that most separates them seems like a bit of revisionist history to me.  Zay screamed "potential NBA player" as a freshman.  I'd be surprised to see Kevin make our rotation next year.

 

I'd say the best comparison to a recent former Husker is to Roby's classmate, Jeriah Horne. That's who Cross most resembles.

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43 minutes ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

I don't like this signing ... I'm all for second chances, but the domestic violence issue is hard for me to overlook.

This is what the victim said,  “The events that occurred early Thursday morning were a miscommunication. Alcohol was involved and we both made a series of poor decisions that led to even bigger poor decisions. I am not injured, battered, nor was I harmed. This is an unfortunate situation. I have no further comment on what I will do moving forward.” - The Wichita police department also said she wasn't injured in the incident. I have no tolerance for domestic abuse - but I think that's an unfair label in this situation. 

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1 hour ago, aphilso1 said:

 

I'm not debating that Cross is more aggressive than frosh Roby was.  Cross clearly is more aggressive.  But in my opinion the gap in athleticism, length, defense and shooting are all much more pronounced, and all favor freshman Roby.  I mean, Kevin can't even make a free throw at this point.  To say that aggression is the trait that most separates them seems like a bit of revisionist history to me.  Zay screamed "potential NBA player" as a freshman.  I'd be surprised to see Kevin make our rotation next year.


There have been a TON of collegiate players better than Roby (in college) who had no chance at the NBA.  I’m not making an NBA claim for Cross because of the athletic attributes you mention, but he’ll be a better college player based on what I’ve seen.  Roby’s perimeter defense is what makes him an NBA player.  

 

And I don’t think freshman Roby was a better shooter or scorer than Cross.  He definitely earned his stripes over time on the defensive end though.  That said, I actually think Cross is fairly athletic in his own right for the weight he’s carrying.  He’s still drop step dunker.  

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11 hours ago, LK1 said:


Roby would’ve been developed better under Hoiberg—probably into the 1st round.  No question about that.  The biggest difference between Cross and Roby is Cross is naturally aggressive on both ends and doesn’t back down from anyone, even when he’s completely outmatched.  No one is going to have to ask him if he knows how good he is—he already thinks he’s good.  I like that out of the youngins.  Consider the Draymond comparison.  There are a ton of NBA players with more athletic upside than Draymond.  But they aren’t as good as he is at basketball, and a lot of that has to do with natural disposition.   
 

He and Roby actually had fairly similar skill sets coming in—high court IQ, good passing, point forward capabilities, good shot mechanics that need more work.  Cross is a much better ball handler at this age, though, and that REALLY matters at the 4 in Fred’s system.  

The biggest difference between the two is vertical leaping ability.  I think Roby has legitimately 15+ inches on him in that aspect.  That is a big one for the NBA and the difference between making it and not.  Roby is night and day better defensively, and it boils down to that the vertical jump!

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48 minutes ago, big red22 said:

The biggest difference between the two is vertical leaping ability.  I think Roby has legitimately 15+ inches on him in that aspect.  That is a big one for the NBA and the difference between making it and not.  Roby is night and day better defensively, and it boils down to that the vertical jump!

Holy moly. Roby is a very fluid athlete, but his explosiveness is overblown by Husker fans. He’s no Miles Bridges. He has a 7’1+ wingspan, which may make him appear more vertically explosive(that’s half a foot longer than Copeland’s for comparison).

 

At the combine his standing vertical was 32.5” and max vertical was 35.5”. There’s no way Cross has a 20” max vertical. Cross has surprised me a few times this year when he catches a dump down pass, gets off the floor quickly off two feet and throws it down with two hands within the flow of the half court offense. Shoot, Jordy is 6’11” with a 7’5” wingspan and I don’t recall him ever doing that.

 

I’m in no way saying Cross is an NBA player, but he’s got some deceptive athleticism. He’s pretty methodical with the ball in his hands, which makes him look pretty slow. But he’s also much more under control as a ball-handler than Roby was even as a junior.

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I like the Allen pickup.   He strikes me as an unconscious scorer when watching his film.   He can throw it in from anywhere.   Good fit for the Hoiberg offense.    

 

I think the other stuff is behind him.   Support him and encourage him with a clear set of firm rules&expectations and I think he will be fine.

 

 

 

 

 

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I really don't like the concept of "guilty until proven innocent" . Let's reserve judgement on Allen's character until he is on the team for awhile. And on any other social platform someone would undoubtedly label me as a supporter for domestic violence. I think we are more mature on this board. 

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16 hours ago, The Polish Rifle said:

This is what the victim said,  “The events that occurred early Thursday morning were a miscommunication. Alcohol was involved and we both made a series of poor decisions that led to even bigger poor decisions. I am not injured, battered, nor was I harmed. This is an unfortunate situation. I have no further comment on what I will do moving forward.” - The Wichita police department also said she wasn't injured in the incident. I have no tolerance for domestic abuse - but I think that's an unfair label in this situation. 



I have facilitated Domestic Violence Intervention Programs for years and am well-versed on the topic both by training and education. It's not necessarily about whether contact was made or not ... it's part of a greater mindset that requires a lot of discipline and "want to change" for the perpetrator. The perpetrator often chooses (subconsciously) a person who makes excuses for their behaviors ... often because the perpetrator has subconsciously trained them to do so. If alcohol was involved that could be a further issue and an indicator that it could easily occur with another "victim" as the first thing that happens when one is intoxicated is that the prefrontal cortex where decision making and "morals" lie is numbed out or disconnected from the other more primitive areas of the brain. There's much more to domestic violence than whether physical contact was made or not.

All that being said, people can change and I hope that he makes the best of this 4th chance.

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3 hours ago, jimmykc said:

I really don't like the concept of "guilty until proven innocent" . Let's reserve judgement on Allen's character until he is on the team for awhile. And on any other social platform someone would undoubtedly label me as a supporter for domestic violence. I think we are more mature on this board. 


He was guilty of the charge, correct? That he destroyed her phone? Just because someone calls one out on this board to consider a particular subject more thoroughly does not mean they are labeling one a supporter of domestic violence. Did anyone do that to you? Things are not binary ...

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1 minute ago, Husker4theSpurs said:


He was guilty of the charge, correct? That he destroyed her phone? Just because someone calls one out on this board to consider a particular subject more thoroughly does not mean they are labeling one a supporter of domestic violence. Did anyone do that to you? Things are not binary ...

 

He said that he doesn't think anyone on the board would label him as a supporter for domestic violence.  

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On 12/17/2019 at 7:08 PM, Husker Hoops Penitent said:

In keeping with the comments above: where do the minutes go next year given Hoiberg's proclivity to play eight men rotations? Side note: does he tend to play eight man rotations because having quality depth is rare, or is it more a philosophy?

 

Would like to hear from the sages on this board what the line-ups might look like next year drawing from the current twelve scholarship players scheduled to return.

 

Cam Mack
Teddy Allen    
Dashon Burke
Shameil Stevenson
Kevin Cross

Yvan Ouedraogo
Jervay Green
Donovan Williams
Thorir Thorbjarnarson
Delano Banton
Derrick Walker
Akol Arop

 

plus quality walk-on Charlie Easley.

Starters:

Cam/Teddy/Charlie

Dashon/Jervay/Thorir

Thorir/Shameil/Jervay

Yvan/Kevin

Derrick/Akol

 

Can remove Williams from this list since he has decommitted.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ron Mexico said:

Starters:

Cam/Teddy/Charlie

Dashon/Jervay/Thorir

Thorir/Shameil/Jervay

Yvan/Kevin

Derrick/Akol

 

Can remove Williams from this list since he has decommitted.

 

 

 

 

Interesting.

 

So Dalano Banton isnt making the depth chart? Teddy Allen is a backup; at PG nonetheless? Yvan Ouedraogo and Derrick Walker are both starting? 

 

I agree with Mack, Burke, and Thor as starters.

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