Let me get this straight...

[Nebrasketball1979]

4 minutes ago, uneblinstu said:

They literally were happening at the same time...

The obvious answer is that if Moos cared one iota about Nebrasketball, then he would have had a teleportation transfer devise to go back and forth between both.  Duh!

[Silverbacked1]

7 minutes ago, Nebrasketball1979 said:

The obvious answer is that if Moos cared one iota about Nebrasketball, then he would have had a teleportation transfer devise to go back and forth between both.  Duh!

Yeah this Duh!  But a helicoptor still would have been cool.

 

[Handy Johnson]

2 hours ago, Dean Smith said:

I know everyone on this board wants to talk about the big picture, but not everyone is that involved in Nebraska Basketball. To the casual observer, the team just won 22 games and certainly, they would have no sense of a flop having taken place.

If 3/4 of the "basketball" fans polled are happy with 1year or no extension that tells you all you need to know...

[Dean Smith]

Then I’m slow because I don’t know what that is supposed to tell me. How many of those fans actually know that a one year extension is not necessarily a good thing. I heard on the Carriker Chronicles Adam say he supported the one year extension because it was an extension and he saw that as support for Miles. Some people voted yes on the extension as a sign of suppprort, some were supporting Miles and some were supporting Moos and some likes that they thought it showed little support for Miles and some thought that one year was what he deserved after the six he put in so far and all of my musings here are simply conjecture. There’s not enough detail in the poll to really tell you anything at all. 

[Norm Peterson]

I agree with Dean.  I don't think the poll results reflect a population that really understands what they're voting on.  So I'm not sure what you can make of the results, if anything.

 

And I'm afraid I must not have been doing a very good job of explaining my position on all of this.  Let me try once more:

 

You have a coach.  The money you pay him at this point isn't necessarily just about compensating him based on his performance.  Part of what you're doing with extensions, etc., is nurturing the program itself.

 

The people who are focused on the fact that a big extension now and firing him next year would mean he'd get some kind of huge, undeserved windfall, are, in my opinion, focusing on the wrong thing.  That might all be true, but it's not the most important consideration.

 

In my opinion, the people who are most worried that Miles could "hit the jackpot" by getting fired after a longer extension are leaping over dollars to save pennies.

 

This program has a value independent of and far larger than what we're paying the coach.  You have to nurture the program.  Part of having a program is having a coach.  You (the AD) chose not to fire the guy this year.  In my opinion, given that you didn't fire him, it is untenable to not extend him generously now even if you have to fire him next year.

 

We just got done with one of the best seasons in the modern history of the program and we needed to leverage the obvious success (finishing top 4 in conference) in order to lay groundwork for further success down the road, including on the recruiting trail.

 

By not being decisive and swift about either terminating the coach or extending him (to a normal-length deal), Moos screwed the pooch.  He basically deprived us of any opportunity to leverage the objective success we had this year and use it to pave the way for further success in the future, regardless of who the coach is.

 

Miles has been hamstrung in recruiting ever since Shawn Eichorst decided to not extend him two years ago.  I think we've seen the results of that decision playing out on NLI signing days ever since.  It's to the point that, even if we have a successful run next season, make it to the dance and win a game or two, the stable is going to be basically empty for the following year.  We aren't going to have the horses to compete the year after, and we're going to be right back to where we are now.  Or, actually, in worse shape.

 

Those of you whose primary focus is that you don't want to see Miles get paid one damn dime in buyout because you think his performance doesn't justify the pay he's getting?

 

I think you're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

 

 

[Handy Johnson]

13 hours ago, Dean Smith said:

Then I’m slow because I don’t know what that is supposed to tell me. How many of those fans actually know that a one year extension is not necessarily a good thing. I heard on the Carriker Chronicles Adam say he supported the one year extension because it was an extension and he saw that as support for Miles. Some people voted yes on the extension as a sign of suppprort, some were supporting Miles and some were supporting Moos and some likes that they thought it showed little support for Miles and some thought that one year was what he deserved after the six he put in so far and all of my musings here are simply conjecture. There’s not enough detail in the poll to really tell you anything at all. 

The point I was making is that most "fans" are just happy to have something to do between the Bowl game and Spring Football. Remember last season was supposed to be Tim's "prove it" year and now he get's to have another one. I find the lack of commitment to Tim and the Program not only troubling, but disheartening on an institutional level...

[Silverbacked1]

35 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

The point I was making is that most "fans" are just happy to have something to do between the Bowl game and Spring Football. Remember last season was supposed to be Tim's "prove it" year and now he get's to have another one. I find the lack of commitment to Tim and the Program not only troubling, but disheartening on an institutional level...

 

Up arrow about a gallon times.

 

Should be gallizion or how ever you spell it.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Silverbacked1

[Blindcheck]

2 hours ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

The people who are focused on the fact that a big extension now and firing him next year would mean he'd get some kind of huge, undeserved windfall, are, in my opinion, focusing on the wrong thing.  That might all be true, but it's not the most important consideration.

 

 

 

Here is where I disagree with your premise...

 

If as we all know that Miles has another do or die year in 2018-2019...an extension does nothing for him in recruiting or building the program....An extension that is given just to help with perception (and that is what it would be) is meaningless....

 

What can happen next year, if Miles and the Huskers make it to the sweet 16...is long term extension can be given and people might actually believe that Miles has gotten off the hot seat.

 

But until your coach actually gets off the hot seat, a contract extension to 4 or 5 years will not change the dynamics in recruiting and assistant coach hiring.

 

The key to this whole thing, for the program to have stability is the program has to show consistency first, then people will believe the stability.

 

I think Moos did the absolute right thing...he committed publicly to the coach for next year and is giving Miles a chance to continue to coach at Nebraska if he performs....

 

Miles still has one of the top 80 jobs in college basketball (being in a power conference)....This is probably is only chance to ever have one of those jobs(which to me is another reason to not commit $ for too many years, if nobody is going to poach your coach, you don't need commit public university dollars to him)....so Moos gave him another year to figure it out....Overcome any recruiting obstacles and coach up the guys you got.

 

 

[HuskerFever]

38 minutes ago, Blindcheck said:

If as we all know that Miles has another do or die year in 2018-2019...an extension does nothing for him in recruiting or building the program....An extension that is given just to help with perception (and that is what it would be) is meaningless....

 

Might be worth having the caveat that this assumes that all parties (including prospective coaches and recruits) have the same knowledge we do about the state of the program.

[Blindcheck]

3 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

Might be worth having the caveat that this assumes that all parties (including prospective coaches and recruits) have the same knowledge we do about the state of the program.

If a recruit or potential assistant coach does't realize that Miles needs to win next year...then they probably aren't the type to be concerned about contract extensions and if they said extensions mean anything.

[ladyhusker]

Here's the thing -- I think 2018-19 is only another do-or-die year because that's what the narrative became after the season.

 

Rewind six-ish weeks. Selection Sunday just happened and we were left out, but Bill Moos had spent the last week calling everyone in his phone to tell them how awesome Nebrasketball is. We're sitting at 22-10, which by most standards (especially in Nebraska) is a good season. We had a double-bye in the Big Ten Tournament, and yes, we lost to Michigan, but so did a couple really good teams, so while that sucks, it's not like we're not in good company. And the NIT may have inexplicably just crapped on us, but it's a team we played once already to start the season and jumped out to a 20-point lead at halftime so a win isn't impossible.

 

Let's say that, at that point, the AD announces that despite what the committee decided, this was a really good season and we believe we're heading the right direction (because dang it, everyone who ever met Bill Moos in a bar once at a Final Four has heard from him this week about how great this team is and why we deserved to be in the tourney), and so with that in mind, we're looking forward to building on this year's success and taking the next step in 2018-19 with Tim Miles, who has received a 2-year extension. Could he still fire Miles if next year goes poorly? Sure. But does it also highlight the good things about this season (I can think of at least 22 of them right off the bat...) and give us a little momentum in the offseason? Yep. Maybe we still lose in Starkville, but maybe everyone isn't so pissed off when they go, knowing that at least their administration thinks they accomplished something. Or maybe we even say this conversation and announcement all happens after Moos and Miles met the first time...probably still works out OK.

 

Instead, we got a whole bunch of silence, a ton of rumors (some of which may or may not be true, but it plants speculation regardless), and now a pall over what could have been a pretty important offseason with a coach who now looks like a lame duck and an AD who looks like he doesn't believe in his coach. All this so he could weigh out whether to fire a guy who just got a school record for conference wins and placed 4th in the Big Ten? Wait on it a year. If we suck, call your coach of choice and offer him a boatload of money then, and we're really no worse for it. If we win, great, we've got a winner. But this do-or-die narrative was cosigned, if not created, by the administration's lack of support and decisive action at the appropriate time.

 

The ultimatum season didn't need to happen. Maybe Shawn Eichorst painted Bill Moos into a corner, but Moos turned around and pooped in it. He (and his staff) had the opportunity to write their own narrative and this is what they chose. I think that's certainly worthy of criticism, because I think all this could have all been avoided with some competent PR, and instead, we're treated to a doom-and-gloom offseason and a pressure cooker inside PBA next year.

[Blindcheck]

2 minutes ago, ladyhusker said:

Could he still fire Miles if next year goes poorly? Sure.

This is why an extension is meaningless and all the "goodwill"....unless the answer to that question is NO....Miles would be safe even with a 10-19 season, everything else doesn't matter.

[Norm Peterson]

@ladyhusker That's kinda what I've been trying to say.  

 

Not sure how we could make it any more clear.

 

@Blindcheck I think you're a smart guy and informed.  I just really, really disagree with you about this.  See what ladyhusker said above.

[ladyhusker]

3 minutes ago, Blindcheck said:

This is why an extension is meaningless and all the "goodwill"....unless the answer to that question is NO....Miles would be safe even with a 10-19 season, everything else doesn't matter.

I think this might be an agree-to-disagree thing, but I do think the expected outcome is assumed differently in the two scenarios. A multi-year contract extension assumes good seasons are ahead. A one-year contract extension assumes a poor outcome unless you can prove it wrong. At the risk of getting a little too Eichorst-y, it makes a heck of a difference how you perform when someone thinks you'll succeed vs. when someone thinks you'll fail. Moos and Co. have basically said they expect Miles to fail. How do you go about proving him wrong without turning into Bo Pelini and making it an us-against-them thing? That's a pretty fine line to balance, and while it's possible, I continue to believe that creating the need for it was unnecessary. You can turn your nose up at the "goodwill" stuff, but personally, I think that's a mistake because I think the fact that we're even having this conversation means that it matters.

[busticket]

I have no problem with Moos putting all of his attention on football initially.  We are Nebraska.  We have been lost in the wilderness for about twenty years....he had to get it nailed down.

 

Moving in to basketball, I don’t know how you fire a guy who just finished fourth in the B1G.  Period.  End of discussion.  We are historically a bottom feeder in men’s hoops so this was a damn good season.  Just ended poorly.  I totally understand wanting to do better; I feel like we can do better but Miles may be at his ceiling.  I guess I would put it this way.....you don’t fire Solich after 9 wins.  It has a really bad look.  You fire him after 7-7.  I would have given Miles a 2 year extension and moved on.  Why?

 

Have you looked at the baseball mess?  I don’t think Moos wants to replace the men’s head coaches of all 3 major programs while he is still figuring out where to pick up his mail.  Miles did more with less this year.  Erstad is doing less with more.  He has all the advantage over our conference breatheran.  He has had plenty of time.  His assistants are bad and he won’t replace them.  But he is a seriously famous alum..... I would not want to deal with that one.

 

bottom line is Moos had a lot on his plate walking in the door.  Kind of left basketball dangling but if he gets football right he will have latitude in the other sports.

[Dean Smith]

9 minutes ago, busticket said:

I have no problem with Moos putting all of his attention on football initially.  We are Nebraska.  We have been lost in the wilderness for about twenty years....he had to get it nailed down.

 

Moving in to basketball, I don’t know how you fire a guy who just finished fourth in the B1G.  Period.  End of discussion.  We are historically a bottom feeder in men’s hoops so this was a damn good season.  Just ended poorly.  I totally understand wanting to do better; I feel like we can do better but Miles may be at his ceiling.  I guess I would put it this way.....you don’t fire Solich after 9 wins.  It has a really bad look.  You fire him after 7-7.  I would have given Miles a 2 year extension and moved on.  Why?

 

Have you looked at the baseball mess?  I don’t think Moos wants to replace the men’s head coaches of all 3 major programs while he is still figuring out where to pick up his mail.  Miles did more with less this year.  Erstad is doing less with more.  He has all the advantage over our conference breatheran.  He has had plenty of time.  His assistants are bad and he won’t replace them.  But he is a seriously famous alum..... I would not want to deal with that one.

 

bottom line is Moos had a lot on his plate walking in the door.  Kind of left basketball dangling but if he gets football right he will have latitude in the other sports.

I understand where you are coming from and I am not disagreeing or disparaging your opinion. But....for me, I am not OK with Moos putting all of his attention on football.  I choose basketball over football all day long and from my point of view he didn't just not give it the attention it deserved, he went out of his way and hurt the program going forward whoever ends up coaching the team two years from now.

[Norm Peterson]

3 minutes ago, Dean Smith said:

I understand where you are coming from and I am not disagreeing or disparaging your opinion. But....for me, I am not OK with Moos putting all of his attention on football.  I choose basketball over football all day long and from my point of view he didn't just not give it the attention it deserved, he went out of his way and hurt the program going forward whoever ends up coaching the team two years from now.

 

Dean Smith agrees with me, so I got that going for me.  Which is nice.

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, Blindcheck said:

This is why an extension is meaningless and all the "goodwill"....unless the answer to that question is NO....Miles would be safe even with a 10-19 season, everything else doesn't matter.

 

You're right about 10-19. 

More on point though, is he safe going 20-10, making the NCAA tourney and then losing the first game? Probably moreso with a 2 year extension than a 1.

[NUdiehard]

40 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Dean Smith agrees with me, so I got that going for me.  Which is nice.

Norm on this one I 100% agree with you (and LadyHusker) and frankly I am shocked by how poorly Moos handled his situation and am just as shocked that all true Husker Hoops fans can’t see that.

 

Thers were only 2 viable options for Moos after the end is the season:

 

1. Immediately give Miles at least a 2 year extension; or

 

2. Fire Miles and hire “his” coach

 

Playing the waiting game and putting out feelers and then giving just a token 1 year extension was the worst thing he could do and if I/we/you have to take the time to repeatedly explain why then it’s not worth the effort because some will just never get it. 

[hhcmatt]

The extension was formally sent out Monday the 16th and signed by Miles on the same day.

The previous contract wasn't changed, at all. Nothing had to be rewritten by lawyers or anything like that.

The previous contract could have been read at any time. I'm busy but I read it in February.

As I stated earlier a bad season probably gets Miles fired. A very good season probably gets him extended a few years. What happens inbetween? What is margin for error? This uncertainty is the problem. This uncertainty is everyone's problem.

 

[Ron Mexico]

2 hours ago, Blindcheck said:

Miles still has one of the top 80 jobs in college basketball (being in a power conference)....This is probably is only chance to ever have one of those jobs(which to me is another reason to not commit $ for too many years, if nobody is going to poach your coach, you don't need commit public university dollars to him)....so Moos gave him another year to figure it out....Overcome any recruiting obstacles and coach up the guys you got.

 

 

I think you missed the point of @Norm Peterson post. The majority, if not all, of recruits know the length of a coaches contract. They do not dig any deeper than that. They don't have the time or energy to do a deep dive and understand the nuances. A recruit is being pursued by multiple teams. They are buried in the process of recruiting along with juggling everything else in their lives. They are more focused on what it is going take to play as soon as possible, because that is the goal of the most of them. The length of contract is reality. Competing coaches can try to spin it however they want but a 4/5 contract is a 4/5 year contract and a 3 year contract is a 3 year contract. Those contracts say a lot to a recruit because it is understandable to them. 

[HuskerFever]

9 minutes ago, hhcdimes said:

The extension was formally sent out Monday the 16th and signed by Miles on the same day.

The previous contract wasn't changed, at all. Nothing had to be rewritten by lawyers or anything like that.

The previous contract could have been read at any time. I'm busy but I read it in February.

As I stated earlier a bad season probably gets Miles fired. A very good season probably gets him extended a few years. What happens inbetween? What is margin for error? This uncertainty is the problem. This uncertainty is everyone's problem.

 

I'm of the mindset that it's going to take a very good year just for him to keep his job.

 

But then again, I was of the mindset that this year should have been "he's either your guy or not at this point."

 

If this continues, we're going to end up with a less successful Mark Fox who spent nine years at the program before Georgia decided he wasn't their guy.

[busticket]

32 minutes ago, NUdiehard said:

Norm on this one I 100% agree with you (and LadyHusker) and frankly I am shocked by how poorly Moos handled his situation and am just as shocked that all true Husker Hoops fans can’t see that.

 

Thers were only 2 viable options for Moos after the end is the season:

 

1. Immediately give Miles at least a 2 year extension; or

 

2. Fire Miles and hire “his” coach

 

Playing the waiting game and putting out feelers and then giving just a token 1 year extension was the worst thing he could do and if I/we/you have to take the time to repeatedly explain why then it’s not worth the effort because some will just never get it. 

I totally agree.  I would have done option 1 the day the season ended and been done with it.  Moos obviously is looking for an upgrade and it wasn’t getting done this offseason.  Should have immediately put it to bed.  

 

I am hoping the uncertainty doesn’t screw up next season.  I hope Moos turns his full attention to hoops next winter and makes a firm decision on way or the other.

[busticket]

1 hour ago, Dean Smith said:

I understand where you are coming from and I am not disagreeing or disparaging your opinion. But....for me, I am not OK with Moos putting all of his attention on football.  I choose basketball over football all day long and from my point of view he didn't just not give it the attention it deserved, he went out of his way and hurt the program going forward whoever ends up coaching the team two years from now.

I actually totally agree.   I am a basketball junkie but in this state I think we play second fiddle to the fans that are primarily focused on football.  Our numbers are growing (just look at our attendance) but NU will always be a football school first for the majority of fans.  

 

It does seem like Moos kind of screwed with the hoops program, intentionally or not.  I am not sure what to make of the whole deal.  Miles has this program in a much better place than what he walked into; hopefully this doesn’t set us back too bad.

[bobcat402]

3 hours ago, busticket said:

I have no problem with Moos putting all of his attention on football initially.  We are Nebraska.  We have been lost in the wilderness for about twenty years....he had to get it nailed down.

 

Moving in to basketball, I don’t know how you fire a guy who just finished fourth in the B1G.  Period.  End of discussion.  We are historically a bottom feeder in men’s hoops so this was a damn good season.  Just ended poorly.  I totally understand wanting to do better; I feel like we can do better but Miles may be at his ceiling.  I guess I would put it this way.....you don’t fire Solich after 9 wins.  It has a really bad look.  You fire him after 7-7.  I would have given Miles a 2 year extension and moved on.  Why?

 

Have you looked at the baseball mess?  I don’t think Moos wants to replace the men’s head coaches of all 3 major programs while he is still figuring out where to pick up his mail.  Miles did more with less this year.  Erstad is doing less with more.  He has all the advantage over our conference breatheran.  He has had plenty of time.  His assistants are bad and he won’t replace them.  But he is a seriously famous alum..... I would not want to deal with that one.

 

bottom line is Moos had a lot on his plate walking in the door.  Kind of left basketball dangling but if he gets football right he will have latitude in the other sports.

I have a huge problem with putting the majority of his attention on football as Norm, and Ladyhusker have said moos had an opportunity to either fire Miles this year and say hey 22 wins is great but not good enough pony up some cash and grab his coach ,if he keeps a list like he says he does and as any AD should, there were names out there. Or he could of extended 2-3 yrs and if stunk next year you could still fire him. We did neither and playing kick the can will have ramifications on this program.

 

I don’t know what he’s going to do with baseball but he definitly can’t kick the can with that program it’s atrocious what we’re doing this season