What to do with Miles contract?

[huskerbaseball13]

42 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

So let's look at the whole picture.

 

Of the three transfers that left, one went pro (good), one quit basketball all together (not bad for NU), and only one was probably bad for NU and that was White.

 

Most all high school players left because Miles recruited BETTER players.  Hello... isn't that what we want?  

 

Look it's ok to lose talent, if you are upgrading with better talent.  Miles HAS done this.  It isn't like we are replacing 5* recruits with 3* recruits.  It is actually pretty opposite.  The transfer route isn't a bad route to recruit either.  The days of having the 4 year player that stars for you are almost over.  That's just the way things are today.  And if they pass the transfer and no sit rule, it is only going to get worse.  Miles seems to be a step ahead of the game for this.  I for one am happy about that.  We cannot keep bagging on Miles for losing talent and fail to see that he has upgraded the talent each and every time we lost talent.  Hell, our biggest losses were probably Ed and MJ, and we managed to upgrade with Copeland, Palmer (both already in the fold), TAllen, and Dube.  I don't know about you, but that is one hell of a trade in a good way for Nebraska.

Eventually that talent upgrade has to pay off though right? I mean, the guy has zero postseason wins in his six years. I get that our schedule did not play our great for us this year but we were pretty dismal against good teams.  It’s tough to really complain about winning 22 games but if Miles is our coach next year he needs to retain his top talent and get back to tournament.  I don’t see how he does that if we lose key players in the offseason. 

[hskr4life]

1 minute ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

Eventually that talent upgrade has to pay off though right? I mean, the guy has zero postseason wins in his six years. I get that our schedule did not play our great for us this year but we were pretty dismal against good teams.  It’s tough to really complain about winning 22 games but if Miles is our coach next year he needs to retain his top talent and get back to tournament.  I don’t see how he does that if we lose key players in the offseason. 

 

You are correct.  There comes a point where there isn't better players to recruit and I think that this is one of those offseasons.  There isn't anything left to use in the cupboard for next year.  But, so far as I can tell, we are only losing one player that, again, was recruited over for better players.  I along with most on here think that next year is the year.  It almost has to be.  We know what we will have and we know that they can beat anyone.

 

I think the talent did pay off this year though.  We won 22 games.  We've done more than that once in school history.  We won 13 Big 10 games.  Of the teams that were able to accomplish that, ALL of them except us were invited to the Dance and won a game there.  I don't agree with someone pointing out the "high turnover" as a reason to get rid of Miles.  Because each and every time that has happened, we have improved our player quality.  This year it paid off.  We need to continue to build on that.  We can sit here and play guessing games about who may or may not leave, but until that becomes a reality, there is no way for us to know.  

 

The upgrade in talent did pay off this year.  I think we all can see that.  

[Donkey]

46 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

So let's look at the whole picture.

 

Of the three transfers that left, one went pro (good), one quit basketball all together (not bad for NU), and only one was probably bad for NU and that was White.

 

Most all high school players left because Miles recruited BETTER players.  Hello... isn't that what we want?  

 

Look it's ok to lose talent, if you are upgrading with better talent.  Miles HAS done this.  It isn't like we are replacing 5* recruits with 3* recruits.  It is actually pretty opposite.  The transfer route isn't a bad route to recruit either.  The days of having the 4 year player that stars for you are almost over.  That's just the way things are today.  And if they pass the transfer and no sit rule, it is only going to get worse.  Miles seems to be a step ahead of the game for this.  I for one am happy about that.  We cannot keep bagging on Miles for losing talent and fail to see that he has upgraded the talent each and every time we lost talent.  Hell, our biggest losses were probably Ed and MJ, and we managed to upgrade with Copeland, Palmer (both already in the fold), TAllen, and Dube.  I don't know about you, but that is one hell of a trade in a good way for Nebraska.

 

This argument assumes Miles poorly evaluated the high school kids and made up for his mistakes by bringing in transfers.  It still does not make Miles look good.  

 

With graduate transfers, I will give you Vucetic for Abraham as a trade up, Okeke for Morrow or Jacobson is a loss.  

 

Petteway, Pitchford, and Biggs came in as a result of Doc's poor roster management.  So I will agree there is a trade up of something for nothing.   However, Biggs leaving led to Smith coming in (a wash at best, but really a 3* for a 2* trade).  I will give you Hawkins for White though (3* for a 5*).  Morrow, Watson, McVeigh, and Jacobson were already in the mix when Pitchford and Petteway left.  You do trade Petteway for Gill (a 3* for a 4* but a loss when comparing actual results).  Smith for Evelyn is a wash (2* for 2*).  You do lose on White for Taylor (5* for a 2*), but I will give you Copeland for Hammond and Evelyn for Palmer.  

 

Based on those numbers, there were 4 trade ups with the rest being washes or losses.  It will look worse if Copeland or Palmer leave.

 

@Swan88 You are right about Oregon from 2012-2017.  There was turnover.  However, Oregon out recruited Nebraska (2x as many 4* and 1 5*) during the same period which led to 4 NBA draft picks.  

 

[Swan88]

As long as we internet geniuses (of which I am one, as long as the phrase is used sarcastically and not genuinely) are speculating on the future of Tim Miles and the meaning of delay in response from Bill Moos, I went back and confirmed that:

   —Riley coached his last game on a Friday, and

   —Moos fired Riley the next morning.

 

So . . . what can radio silence from Bill Moos mean for Nebrasketball, now that we are nearly a week removed from NU’s last basketball game?

Absent inside information, we simply dont know.  And I’ve heard, third-hand, about inside information going both ways.

[Swan88]

4 minutes ago, Donkey said:

 

 

@Swan88 You are right about Oregon from 2012-2017.  There was turnover.  However, Oregon out recruited Nebraska (2x as many 4* and 1 5*) during the same period which led to 4 NBA draft picks.  

 

Yeah.  And some of those were dismissed from the team (didn’t just leave) under rape-type charges.

And there were allegations that Oregon U. covered things up on those in early March until late April for reasons that seem obvious.

 

Edited March 20, 2018 by Swan88

[The Polish Rifle]

3 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

As long as we internet geniuses (of which I am one, as long as the phrase is used sarcastically and not genuinely) are speculating on the future of Tim Miles and the meaning of delay in response from Bill Moos, I went back and confirmed that:

   —Riley coached his last game on a Friday, and

   —Moos fired Riley the next morning.

 

So . . . what can radio silence from Bill Moos mean for Nebrasketball, now that we are nearly a week removed from NU’s last basketball game?

Absent inside information, we simply dont know.  And I’ve heard, third-hand, about inside information going both ways.

One would think he has to be vetting other options. There is a handful of guys I would prefer over Miles. There is also a long list of guys where Miles is a clear better option. Maybe for Moos its: I get one of these 3 guys, or Miles gets his extension.

[hskr4life]

Just now, Donkey said:

 

This argument assumes Miles poorly evaluated the high school kids and made up for his mistakes by bringing in transfers.  It still does not make Miles look good.  

 

With graduate transfers, I will give you Vucetic for Abraham as a trade up, Okeke for Morrow or Jacobson is a loss.  

 

Petteway, Pitchford, and Biggs came in as a result of Doc's poor roster management.  So I will agree there is a trade up of something for nothing.   However, Biggs leaving led to Smith coming in (a wash at best, but really a 3* for a 2* trade).  I will give you Hawkins for White though (3* for a 5*).  Morrow, Watson, McVeigh, and Jacobson were already in the mix when Pitchford and Petteway left.  You do trade Petteway for Gill (a 3* for a 4* but a loss when comparing actual results).  Smith for Evelyn is a wash (2* for 2*).  You do lose on White for Taylor (5* for a 2*), but I will give you Copeland for Hammond and Evelyn for Palmer.  

 

Based on those numbers, there were 4 trade ups with the rest being washes or losses.  It will look worse if Copeland or Palmer leave.

 

@Swan88 You are right about Oregon from 2012-2017.  There was turnover.  However, Oregon out recruited Nebraska (2x as many 4* and 1 5*) during the same period which led to 4 NBA draft picks.  

 

 

It isn't a straight trade up or trade down situation?  I am talking about how Miles filled our needs each and every year with better players.  If you can't see it then I don't know what else to tell you man.  I am not just talking about *'s here.  I for one am not a big believer in stars.  I am talking about talent and upgrades in positions of need.  Miles has excelled at that... whether you want to admit or not.  

 

This argument also does not assume that Miles poorly evaluated high school kids, it's actually the opposite.  Miles found something he liked, something he could use, and something that worked for us to begin with.  Then he found something better.  Once he found something better, we got rid of the old toys.  It doesn't mean we did a poor job of evaluating those players.  That was all we could get.  It means Miles has gotten significantly better at signing better players.  Hell, it isn't that hard to identify talent.  Any Joe Schmoe could do that.  Getting them to actually come here is another thing though.  Miles did that.

 

See these are the types of arguments that I don't understand.  The "Well since we got better players, it must mean that Miles stunk it up in the beginning," argument.  I will agree to disagree with you until the end of time on that argument.  Miles did the best with what he had early, and then continued to get better and better.  Not much more you could ask from someone.

[swmckewon]

48 minutes ago, khoock said:

Of all the transfers listed above, Andrew White and Ed Morrow were probably the only two who would have continued to play had they not transferred. Everyone else would have stayed on the bench or seen their roles diminished to the bench.

 

I think Evelyn would have. It would not surprise me to see Evelyn back at a major program after he graduates from Valpo. 

 

 

[khoock]

5 minutes ago, swmckewon said:

 

I think Evelyn would have. It would not surprise me to see Evelyn back at a major program after he graduates from Valpo. 

 

 

I guess it is hard to tell. Does he play over Gill, Taylor, Palmer? But then again, do we still have all of those guys if Evelyn stays? 

 

Who knows.

[hskr4life]

8 minutes ago, swmckewon said:

 

I think Evelyn would have. It would not surprise me to see Evelyn back at a major program after he graduates from Valpo. 

 

 

Evelyn realllly struggled against Power 5 competition this year.  I realize he had a good year in conference, but it isn't like the teams they played are world beaters either.

[ajb5856]

38 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

As long as we internet geniuses (of which I am one, as long as the phrase is used sarcastically and not genuinely) are speculating on the future of Tim Miles and the meaning of delay in response from Bill Moos, I went back and confirmed that:

   —Riley coached his last game on a Friday, and

   —Moos fired Riley the next morning.

 

So . . . what can radio silence from Bill Moos mean for Nebrasketball, now that we are nearly a week removed from NU’s last basketball game?

Absent inside information, we simply dont know.  And I’ve heard, third-hand, about inside information going both ways.

However, Moos already had Frost on board for quite some time prior to Riley coaching his last game. In this situation, he absolutely cannot get rid of Miles without a plan in place and risk getting caught with his pants down. Some may say retain Miles others say time to start over. If your opinion is to start over, you need to upgrade. You can’t fire Miles with no plan other than to see which way the wind blows and be left fighting for whichever hot mid major guy is out there.

 

Moos has had time to gauge interest. Now we will see what he does. 

[hskr4life]

1 minute ago, ajb5856 said:

However, Moos already had Frost on board for quite some time prior to Riley coaching his last game. In this situation, he absolutely cannot get rid of Miles without a plan in place and risk getting caught with his pants down. Some may say retain Miles others say time to start over. If your opinion is to start over, you need to upgrade. You can’t fire Miles with no plan other than to see which way the wind blows and be left fighting for whichever hot mid major guy is out there.

 

Moos has had time to gauge interest. Now we will see what he does. 

 

Correct.  We cannot "hope" for something better.  The grass isn't always greener on the other side.  If we do go down that path, we need to make sure we have something better. Miles has some of the best stuff cooking that we have had in a looooooong time.  We risk losing ALL of that if we don't have our poop in a group.

[Donkey]

26 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

It isn't a straight trade up or trade down situation?  I am talking about how Miles filled our needs each and every year with better players.  If you can't see it then I don't know what else to tell you man.  I am not just talking about *'s here.  I for one am not a big believer in stars.  I am talking about talent and upgrades in positions of need.  Miles has excelled at that... whether you want to admit or not.  

 

This argument also does not assume that Miles poorly evaluated high school kids, it's actually the opposite.  Miles found something he liked, something he could use, and something that worked for us to begin with.  Then he found something better.  Once he found something better, we got rid of the old toys.  It doesn't mean we did a poor job of evaluating those players.  That was all we could get.  It means Miles has gotten significantly better at signing better players.  Hell, it isn't that hard to identify talent.  Any Joe Schmoe could do that.  Getting them to actually come here is another thing though.  Miles did that.

 

See these are the types of arguments that I don't understand.  The "Well since we got better players, it must mean that Miles stunk it up in the beginning," argument.  I will agree to disagree with you until the end of time on that argument.  Miles did the best with what he had early, and then continued to get better and better.  Not much more you could ask from someone.

 

Sure Miles is good collecting pieces but struggles putting and keeping it all together to build program momentum.  Winning with constant turnover is not easy.  If Palmer, Copeland, or Jordy were to leave, getting to the dance next season would only be harder.  None of the incoming freshmen would adequately replace any of those three.  There is no one on the bench who could replace Jordy.  I am really not sure who would replace Copeland.  Nana and Allen need another season before stepping in for Palmer.

 

Finally, regarding Miles inability to bring in and evaluate players.  You have to admit he has made mistakes. He did not anticipate Hawkins, Pitchford, Smith, Morrow, and Jacobson leaving and had to scramble to replace them.  He does not seem to have a plan for Jordy, Copeland, and Palmer leaving either.  

 

  

[ajb5856]

21 minutes ago, Donkey said:

 

Sure Miles is good collecting pieces but struggles putting and keeping it all together to build program momentum.  Winning with constant turnover is not easy.  If Palmer, Copeland, or Jordy were to leave, getting to the dance next season would only be harder.  None of the incoming freshmen would adequately replace any of those three.  There is no one on the bench who could replace Jordy.  I am really not sure who would replace Copeland.  Nana and Allen need another season before stepping in for Palmer.

 

Finally, regarding Miles inability to bring in and evaluate players.  You have to admit he has made mistakes. He did not anticipate Hawkins, Pitchford, Smith, Morrow, and Jacobson leaving and had to scramble to replace them.  He does not seem to have a plan for Jordy, Copeland, and Palmer leaving either.  

 

  

Is it possible to have a plan in place for players leaving? Guys don’t commit because there may be a spot. This isn’t Alabama football. Am I missing something? As far as I can tell you can only react to players leaving but you can’t have a plan in place prior to a player making their intentions known. And as far as reacting to attrition, Miles did as good as you can do last off-season.

[northwillriseagain]

1 hour ago, Donkey said:

 

This argument assumes Miles poorly evaluated the high school kids and made up for his mistakes by bringing in transfers.  It still does not make Miles look good.  

 

With graduate transfers, I will give you Vucetic for Abraham as a trade up, Okeke for Morrow or Jacobson is a loss.  

 

Petteway, Pitchford, and Biggs came in as a result of Doc's poor roster management.  So I will agree there is a trade up of something for nothing.   However, Biggs leaving led to Smith coming in (a wash at best, but really a 3* for a 2* trade).  I will give you Hawkins for White though (3* for a 5*).  Morrow, Watson, McVeigh, and Jacobson were already in the mix when Pitchford and Petteway left.  You do trade Petteway for Gill (a 3* for a 4* but a loss when comparing actual results).  Smith for Evelyn is a wash (2* for 2*).  You do lose on White for Taylor (5* for a 2*), but I will give you Copeland for Hammond and Evelyn for Palmer.  

 

Based on those numbers, there were 4 trade ups with the rest being washes or losses.  It will look worse if Copeland or Palmer leave.

 

@Swan88 You are right about Oregon from 2012-2017.  There was turnover.  However, Oregon out recruited Nebraska (2x as many 4* and 1 5*) during the same period which led to 4 NBA draft picks.  

 

It does not mean Miles made mistakes on the recruiting front, it just means that a horrible program like Nebraska has to start somewhere. 

 

Just because you upgrade, doesn’t mean the player before is horrible. 

 

 

[Swan88]

15 minutes ago, northwillriseagain said:

 a horrible program like Nebraska 

 

 

Nebrasketball is not a “horrible program”—a bit unfortunate, but not “horrible.”

Louisville with its hookers and player payments is a “horrible program.”

University of North Carolina with its fake courses is a “horrible program” because it cheated to get unfair advantages.

Arizona, if the allegations are true, is a “horrible program” for paying players to sign up.

Any school gaining an advantage through corrupt agents is a “horrible program.”

Schools that recruit low-character players and cover-up their failings for winning-purposes are “horrible programs.”

Nebrasketball, as far as we know, is none of those.

 

And I don’t buy the idea that Moos is just now trying to find a replacement before pulling the trigger on Mikes:  He’s had an entire season to evaluate this program and send out feelers.  And Frost was a far-cry from lined-up when Moos pulled the trigger on Riley.  Something else must be going on.

[ajb5856]

13 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

Nebrasketball is not a “horrible program”—a bit unfortunate, but not “horrible.”

Louisville with its hookers and player payments is a “horrible program.”

University of North Carolina with its fake courses is a “horrible program” because it cheated to get unfair advantages.

Arizona, if the allegations are true, is a “horrible program” for paying players to sign up.

Any school gaining an advantage through corrupt agents is a “horrible program.”

Schools that recruit low-character players and cover-up their failings for winning-purposes are “horrible programs.”

Nebrasketball, as far as we know, is none of those.

 

And I don’t buy the idea that Moos is just now trying to find a replacement before pulling the trigger on Mikes:  He’s had an entire season to evaluate this program and send out feelers.  And Frost was a far-cry from lined-up when Moos pulled the trigger on Riley.  Something else must be going on.

Frost was a done deal lined up almost 2 weeks ahead of the Riley firing no matter what is said and no matter how hard anyone says the Frost decision was or that the decision came down to the last minute. He was absolutely on board before Riley was let go.

[cipsucks]

15 minutes ago, Swan88 said:

 

Louisville with its hookers and player payments is a “horrible program.”

 

Louisville is a "whore-able program."

[Ron Mexico]

On 3/19/2018 at 2:52 PM, swmckewon said:

 

They are? 

 

Bill Callahan was fired in 2007. I don't recall anyone wanting Doc Sadler axed after going 20-13 in year two. (And basically finishing one Aleks Maric mid court turnover at Texas from making the NCAA Tournament.)

You are funny S6C. Mentioning Callahan in football while ignoring the 2 who had winning records that were fired, and yes there was a blood lust to fire both of them.

I especially like how you where throwing shade at Alek. Classy move.

[Ron Mexico]

Subscription message boards, local sports radio, and newspapers love this stuff, it increases subs, listeners, and sales. They will do all they can to feed the beast.

[KearneyMan]

1 hour ago, cipsucks said:

 

Louisville is a "whore-able program."

No our presidency is a "whore-able program"   LOL

 

[Ron Mexico]

2 hours ago, Swan88 said:

Nebrasketball is not a “horrible program”—a bit unfortunate, but not “horrible.”

Louisville with its hookers and player payments is a “horrible program.”

University of North Carolina with its fake courses is a “horrible program” because it cheated to get unfair advantages.

Arizona, if the allegations are true, is a “horrible program” for paying players to sign up.

Any school gaining an advantage through corrupt agents is a “horrible program.”

Schools that recruit low-character players and cover-up their failings for winning-purposes are “horrible programs.”

Nebrasketball, as far as we know, is none of those.

 

And I don’t buy the idea that Moos is just now trying to find a replacement before pulling the trigger on Mikes:  He’s had an entire season to evaluate this program and send out feelers.  And Frost was a far-cry from lined-up when Moos pulled the trigger on Riley.  Something else must be going on.

Agreed on the first part and disagree on the last part.

FTR, Moos didn't line up Frost, it was Matt Davidson and TO. 

 

[TourneyBound]

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/tim-miles-bill-moos-treat-tuesday-meeting-as-first-opportunity/article_606b4902-f4e8-5b42-a4bd-5b1530eda380.html

 

im not sure what to think after reading this

Edited March 21, 2018 by ConkintheCorner

[Ron Mexico]

6 minutes ago, ConkintheCorner said:

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/tim-miles-bill-moos-treat-tuesday-meeting-as-first-opportunity/article_606b4902-f4e8-5b42-a4bd-5b1530eda380.html

 

im not sure what to think after reading this

I'm sure TM is just glad to meeting with his AD directly and not some go between like he had to do with the previous AD.

As for the article nothing much there really. Sounds like they are going to be getting together a few more times which I believe should dispel any rumors of TM being fired.

I imagine he is going to be asking him what he can do to help him become more successful. Hopefully this means there will be some more resources available for recruiting.

[The Polish Rifle]

10 minutes ago, ConkintheCorner said:

http://www.omaha.com/huskers/mens-basketball/tim-miles-bill-moos-treat-tuesday-meeting-as-first-opportunity/article_606b4902-f4e8-5b42-a4bd-5b1530eda380.html

 

im not sure what to think after reading this

Seems like a bunch of words to basically say “coach Miles and ad Moos met today”