Postseason Tourney Talk

[HuskerFever]

1 minute ago, colhusker said:

Maybe this will end the man crush on the $EC, I doubt it but what an overrated bunch of bag man led schools.

 

It won't. As long as ESPN and SEC have a contract, there's always going to be an SEC bias from the media.

[colhusker]

21 minutes ago, HuskerFever said:

 

It won't. As long as ESPN and SEC have a contract, there's always going to be an SEC bias from the media.

Been saying this for a long time.  And as long as Joe Lunardi works for ESPN he will continue to push their teams.

[Fullbacksympathy]

I think it's ridiculous to not account for teams playing well during the second half of the season.  That's usually an indicator that they are, you know, getting better.  The B1G has the best coaches in the country.  Every single team in the B1G improved from the start of the year to the end with the exceptions of MSU and Purdue who both played at a high level all season.  To not consider year-long improvement for a team working together is criminal.  That's why Michigan and, historically, MSU have the tendency to wreck shop in the postseason.  

 

Nebraska is legitimately as good as several teams in the sweet 16.  Ugh.  

[nustudent]

I do think there should be some weighting to how a team finishes.   Agree that some teams gel quicker than others.   Also understand the aspect that it is a year long resume though too.

 

Have no issue with the SEC getting 8 teams in.  They won games in the non-con.  Lots of them.  Against good competition.   FAR FAR more than the Big 10. If the Big 10 wanted more teams in, it should have told its teams to not suck in the non-con.  

 

As I said back closer to selection sunday....my issues are this:

-Seemingly changing goal posts annually for the committee.   Every year or so there is a new hot button.

-Transparency:   If you are focusing solely on metrics....say so.   Don't paint a picture that you are truly evaluating.

 

 

 

 

[Ron Mexico]

16 hours ago, hhcdimes said:

 

The NIT was seeded differently by different people than the NCAA.  We got screwed being put as a 5 seed.

Wasn't basing my statement on the NIT seed.

You are correct that we got screwed on our NIT seed.

[tcp]

i'm not especially aggrieved at the SEC. they took a bunch of teams to the 16. sure, they lost them all, but hey, they made it, so it's not like a total fraud. Like the Pac12. Or, to a lesser extent, the Big East. 

 

The ACC's doing well, but without two of their top 3 seeds!  

 

I just don't  think there's a lot of conclusions that can be drawn about conference strength. But that's what the problem was with the rpi all season right? There are probably about a half dozen teams in the NIt that had a legit shot of getting to the round of 16 in the tourney this season. 

[nustudent]

Just now, tcp said:

i'm not especially aggrieved at the SEC. they took a bunch of teams to the 16. sure, they lost them all, but hey, they made it, so it's not like a total fraud. Like the Pac12. Or, to a lesser extent, the Big East. 

 

The ACC's doing well, but without two of their top 3 seeds!  

 

I just don't  think there's a lot of conclusions that can be drawn about conference strength. But that's what the problem was with the rpi all season right? There are probably about a half dozen teams in the NIt that had a legit shot of getting to the round of 16 in the tourney this season. 

RPI is fueled by results.

 

Agreed there were a number of NIT teams that could have made NCAA runs.   But that's the case nearly every year.   Not a huge difference in last 6 in versus the last 6 out.

[tcp]

Just now, nustudent said:

RPI is fueled by results.

 

Agreed there were a number of NIT teams that could have made NCAA runs.   But that's the case nearly every year.   Not a huge difference in last 6 in versus the last 6 out.

 

I'm fueled by beans, too....apropos of nothing, I just wanted to type that. 

 

Dude, everyone knows what "fuels" the rpi, but the tourney has results, too. And those invalidate the assumption of powerful conferences. If you're going to suggest that maybe the really good SEC just had a really bad weekend and was off their game, the inverse could be true about signature games in the non conf. Luck is always a two way street. 

 

It's a shitty metric precisely because it repudiates the idea of the season and the idea of growth in team quality. It's a self-reinforcing, collective measurement that can't be justified by final outcomes, even as its internal mechanics are justified by "results" from the non-conference. There are, or there have to be, better measures of *teams*. 

 

One interesting thing will be to see the commonality between winning teams through the tournament to see if any conclusions can be drawn there other than one game random chance. 

[nustudent]

11 minutes ago, tcp said:

 

I'm fueled by beans, too....apropos of nothing, I just wanted to type that. 

 

Dude, everyone knows what "fuels" the rpi, but the tourney has results, too. And those invalidate the assumption of powerful conferences. If you're going to suggest that maybe the really good SEC just had a really bad weekend and was off their game, the inverse could be true about signature games in the non conf. Luck is always a two way street. 

 

It's a shitty metric precisely because it repudiates the idea of the season and the idea of growth in team quality. It's a self-reinforcing, collective measurement that can't be justified by final outcomes, even as its internal mechanics are justified by "results" from the non-conference. There are, or there have to be, better measures of *teams*. 

 

One interesting thing will be to see the commonality between winning teams through the tournament to see if any conclusions can be drawn there other than one game random chance. 

No, I don't think the SEC had a bad weekend.   I think you saw them for what they are.   A deep league that doesn't have any elite teams.   That played itself out through the dance.   Early success with teams falling off as it progressed.  

 

And there is a bit more to the non-conference than just a weekend.   That's over 2 months.   Not just a Thursday-Saturday combo.

 

I won't disagree that there aren't better measures (I..e KenPom) but it also doesn't invalidate it all together.

[Ron Mexico]

15 hours ago, 49r said:

It'll be a mild upset if Porter Mosier is still the Loyola coach next year.

I'm just going to put this here. Fools gold perhaps?

Head coaching record[edit]

Season	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Postseason
Arkansas–Little Rock Trojans (Sun Belt Conference) (2000–2003)
2000–01	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–11	9–7	7th
2001–02	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–11	8–6	5th
2002–03	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–12	8–6	5th
Arkansas–Little Rock:		54–34 (.614)	25–19 (.568)
Illinois State Redbirds (Missouri Valley Conference) (2003–2007)
2003–04	Illinois State	10–19	4–14	10th
2004–05	Illinois State	17–13	8–10	6th
2005–05	Illinois State	9–19	4–14	10th
2006–07	Illinois State	15–16	6–12	8th
Illinois State:		51–67 (.432)	22–50 (.306)
Loyola Ramblers (Horizon League) (2011–2013)
2011–12	Loyola	7–23	1–17	10th
2012–13	Loyola	15–16	5–11	7th
Loyola Ramblers (Missouri Valley Conference) (2013–present)
2013–14	Loyola	10–22	4–14	10th
2014–15	Loyola	24–13	8–10	6th	CBI Champions
2015–16	Loyola	15–17	7–11	8th
2016–17	Loyola	18–14	8–10	5th
2017–18	Loyola	31–5	15–3	1st	NCAA
Loyola:		120–110 (.522)	48–76 (.387)
Total:		225–211 (.516)
National champion         Postseason invitational champion         Conference regular season champion         Conference regular season and conference tournament champion       Division regular season champion       Division regular season and conference tournament champion       Conference tournament champion

[colhusker]

Again, after watching more $EC games than I can stomach, it was an average conference from top to bottom.  If they played those Non-con games now they don't win nearly as many.  That said, time to move forward to the 2018-19 season.

[Cazzie22]

Does Nebraska have as much talent as Kansas State?  Loyola of Chicago?

[PimpMario]

Does Nebraska have as much talent as Kansas State?  Loyola of Chicago?

Bruce Weber is a really good coach

[Huskerpapa]

3 hours ago, colhusker said:

Maybe this will end the man crush on the $EC, I doubt it but what an overrated bunch of bag man led schools.

The media will not allow that to happen...

[jayschool]

58 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

I'm just going to put this here. Fools gold perhaps?

Head coaching record[edit]

Season	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Postseason
Arkansas–Little Rock Trojans (Sun Belt Conference) (2000–2003)
2000–01	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–11	9–7	7th
2001–02	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–11	8–6	5th
2002–03	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–12	8–6	5th
Arkansas–Little Rock:		54–34 (.614)	25–19 (.568)
Illinois State Redbirds (Missouri Valley Conference) (2003–2007)
2003–04	Illinois State	10–19	4–14	10th
2004–05	Illinois State	17–13	8–10	6th
2005–05	Illinois State	9–19	4–14	10th
2006–07	Illinois State	15–16	6–12	8th
Illinois State:		51–67 (.432)	22–50 (.306)
Loyola Ramblers (Horizon League) (2011–2013)
2011–12	Loyola	7–23	1–17	10th
2012–13	Loyola	15–16	5–11	7th
Loyola Ramblers (Missouri Valley Conference) (2013–present)
2013–14	Loyola	10–22	4–14	10th
2014–15	Loyola	24–13	8–10	6th	CBI Champions
2015–16	Loyola	15–17	7–11	8th
2016–17	Loyola	18–14	8–10	5th
2017–18	Loyola	31–5	15–3	1st	NCAA
Loyola:		120–110 (.522)	48–76 (.387)
Total:		225–211 (.516)
National champion         Postseason invitational champion         Conference regular season champion         Conference regular season and conference tournament champion       Division regular season champion       Division regular season and conference tournament champion       Conference tournament champion

Clearly the seventh year is the magic year.

[Ron Mexico]

1 hour ago, jayschool said:

Clearly the seventh year is the magic year.

Including this season.

AVG Conf. Finish:         7

Avg Season Record:    16-14

Ave Conf. Record:        7-10

[jayschool]

54 minutes ago, Ron Mexico said:

Including this season.

AVG Conf. Finish:         7

Avg Season Record:    16-14

Ave Conf. Record:        7-10

So he's the Tim Miles/Pat Chambers of the MoVal.

[Ron Mexico]

5 hours ago, jayschool said:

So he's the Tim Miles/Pat Chambers of the MoVal.

Prior to this season his best conference finish as a head coach was 5th place.

[atskooc]

Whenever I watch Syracuse play their 2-3, I scream at my TV, "Throw the lob!"

 

'Cuse is doing it to Duke's zone; why doesn't Duke return the favor?

 

It's there every trip down the floor. 

[HuskerFever]

Current conference standings after Friday's games:

 

1. Missouri Valley: 3-0 (100%)

2. Big 12: 11-4 (73%)

3. Big Ten: 7-3 (70%)

4. WCC: 2-1 (67%)

5. ACC: 12-7 (63%)

6. Big East: 6-5 (55%)

7. SEC: 8-8 (50%)

8. Mountain West: 2-2 (50%)

9. America East: 1-1 (50%)

10. Big South: 1-1 (50%)

10. C-USA: 1-1 (50%)

10. MAC: 1-1 (50%)

10: SWAC: 1-1 (50%)

14: Atlantic 10: 2-3 (40%)

14. AAC: 2-3 (40%)

16. Atlantic Sun: 0-1 (0%)

16. Big Sky: 0-1 (0%)

16. Big West: 0-1 (0%)

16. Colonial: 0-1 (0%)

16. Horizon: 0-1 (0%)

16. Ivy: 0-1 (0%)

16. MAAC: 0-1 (0%)

16. MEAC: 0-1 (0%)

16. Northeast: 0-1 (0%)

16. Ohio Valley: 0-1 (0%)

16. Patriot: 0-1 (0%)

16. Southern: 0-1 (0%)

16. Southland: 0-1 (0%)

16. Summit: 0-1 (0%)

16. Sun Belt: 0-1 (0%)

16. WAC: 0-1 (0%)

32. Pac-12: 0-3 (0%)

[HuskerFever]

If you look purely at the Top 4 seeded teams by conference, here's the standings:

 

1. Big 12: 8-2 (80%) -- Kansas, Texas Tech, West Virginia, TCU

2. Big Ten: 7-3 (70%) -- Michigan State, Purdue, Ohio State, Michigan

3. ACC: 6-3 (67%) -- Virginia, Duke, Clemson, North Carolina

4. Big East: 5-3 (63%) -- Xavier, Villanova, Seton Hall, Creighton

5. SEC: 5-4 (56%) -- Auburn, Tennessee, Florida, Kentucky

6. Pac-12: 0-3 (0%) -- Arizona, UCLA, Arizona State

[jayschool]

Tough break, literally, for Purdue. You build a team around a centerpiece, surround that centerpiece with other seniors and a couple of talented underclassmen, circle the calendar for March 2018, and then watch the centerpiece break an elbow.

 

That's why any solace I may gain from Nebraska's potential with a senior-laden team next year is tempered by the unpredictability of athletics.

[Huskerpapa]

6 hours ago, jayschool said:

Tough break, literally, for Purdue. You build a team around a centerpiece, surround that centerpiece with other seniors and a couple of talented underclassmen, circle the calendar for March 2018, and then watch the centerpiece break an elbow.

 

That's why any solace I may gain from Nebraska's potential with a senior-laden team next year is tempered by the unpredictability of athletics.

Sort of like what happened to Nebraska when Dave Hoppen went down...

[The Polish Rifle]

On 3/23/2018 at 11:46 AM, Ron Mexico said:

I'm just going to put this here. Fools gold perhaps?

Head coaching record[edit]

Season	Team	Overall	Conference	Standing	Postseason
Arkansas–Little Rock Trojans (Sun Belt Conference) (2000–2003)
2000–01	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–11	9–7	7th
2001–02	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–11	8–6	5th
2002–03	Arkansas–Little Rock	18–12	8–6	5th
Arkansas–Little Rock:		54–34 (.614)	25–19 (.568)
Illinois State Redbirds (Missouri Valley Conference) (2003–2007)
2003–04	Illinois State	10–19	4–14	10th
2004–05	Illinois State	17–13	8–10	6th
2005–05	Illinois State	9–19	4–14	10th
2006–07	Illinois State	15–16	6–12	8th
Illinois State:		51–67 (.432)	22–50 (.306)
Loyola Ramblers (Horizon League) (2011–2013)
2011–12	Loyola	7–23	1–17	10th
2012–13	Loyola	15–16	5–11	7th
Loyola Ramblers (Missouri Valley Conference) (2013–present)
2013–14	Loyola	10–22	4–14	10th
2014–15	Loyola	24–13	8–10	6th	CBI Champions
2015–16	Loyola	15–17	7–11	8th
2016–17	Loyola	18–14	8–10	5th
2017–18	Loyola	31–5	15–3	1st	NCAA
Loyola:		120–110 (.522)	48–76 (.387)
Total:		225–211 (.516)
National champion         Postseason invitational champion         Conference regular season champion         Conference regular season and conference tournament champion       Division regular season champion       Division regular season and conference tournament champion       Conference tournament champion

Maybe hiring a mid-major coach with one NCAA tournament appearance in their career is a bad idea......

[49r]

3 hours ago, The Polish Rifle said:

Maybe hiring a mid-major coach with one NCAA tournament appearance in their career is a bad idea......

 

That mid-major coach is going to have a final four on his first try!