NCAA or bust.

[hskr4life]

2 minutes ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

I wonder if we could convince Mike Daum from South Dakota State to grad transfer next year. Big man from the panhandle. 6'9" and averages 24 and 10. Anyone that watched the Summit League Championship last year might remember that he torched Omaha for 37.

 

Last I heard it was SDSU or Pro.  However, minds can always be swayed.  Especially if we would keep most of our core around.  He would be part of a Pre-Season Top 25 team.

[colhusker]

19 hours ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

Because Miles proved we were so stable with his previous years? I know this is the era of transfers, but we are on the high number even considering that. And a real abysmal record with HS recruits. A few years ago patience was preached due to the celebrated class of Morrow, Jacobson, and Watson and now 2/3 of them are gone. What's the next excuse? A committee out to get us?

Left because they either saw the handwriting on the wall or both are delusional if they really believe they should have been playing the 3. 

[AuroranHusker]

3 minutes ago, colhusker said:

Left because they either saw the handwriting on the wall or both are delusional if they really believe they should have been playing the 3. 

 

Probably some combination of the two trains of thought. It became rather obvious during the season that Cope & Roby would have supplanted them for major minutes.

[hskr4life]

3 minutes ago, AuroranHusker said:

 

Probably some combination of the two trains of thought. It became rather obvious during the season that Cope & Roby would have supplanted them for major minutes.

 

Yep, I think Jacobson would have really gotten a lot less minutes.  We basically have Jacobson in Cupeled except Cope is more effective on the offensive end from all areas on the court.

 

I think Morrow would have still gotten playing time, it would have just been at the 5.  Had Morrow stayed, one person that would would have been really hurt would have been Jordy.  His PT would have probably went down a lot more.  

 

As I said in this thread, we put a better product on the floor when those two left and that's all that matters really.  

[AuroranHusker]

6 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

Yep, I think Jacobson would have really gotten a lot less minutes.  We basically have Jacobson in Cupeled except Cope is more effective on the offensive end from all areas on the court.

 

I think Morrow would have still gotten playing time, it would have just been at the 5.  Had Morrow stayed, one person that would would have been really hurt would have been Jordy.  His PT would have probably went down a lot more.  

 

As I said in this thread, we put a better product on the floor when those two left and that's all that matters really.  

 

Oh yeah, with the rebounding woes Eddie would have had his minutes, for sure. But the dude didn't want to be a 5.... I hope it works out for steady Eddie. He could be a better baller with a year off.

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by AuroranHusker

[NeeandMe]

On 3/4/2018 at 9:51 AM, Ron Mexico said:

You sort of proved my point. The "why" doesn't matter as it changes every year, it's the fact that it happens.

I fully understand that this is fairly common in CBB and I'm not judging it as a strategy so long as it works.

A team like Nebraska is walking razors edge relying on this strategy.

All of the players you mentioned, had they stayed, would have helped us a great deal. 

I get what you're saying, but all those guys left because of changing roles/ poor team results. None of this teams impact players are going to see someone on the bench eat into their minutes next year and they're coming off a great season as a team. I guess I fail to see how that proves we're going to see any crippling transfers. 

[Husker4theSpurs]

3 hours ago, colhusker said:

Left because they either saw the handwriting on the wall or both are delusional if they really believe they should have been playing the 3. 

Yes Miles himself sold us on those guys and basically said his future depends on them.

[Husker4theSpurs]

I think it's really easy to say Jacobsen and Morrow left because they saw the writing on the wall AFTER the fact. I think Ed was tired of playing the 5 because of our inability to recruit a true big man at the time. Then when he left it put Jacobsen right back into the same place as well. Both were tired of playing center more than anything I believe. Obviously Copeland really has made a difference, but who the heck knows how that back surgery was going to turn out for sure. I don't think they'd really even seen much from Copeland at that time anyhow.

I'm just saying, I personally am growing tired of the salesmanship from Miles and am ready for more results. Don't sell me on the recruiting class and that "we're going to be as good as they take us" and then most of them end up leaving. I get a coach's job is partially being optimistic, but we need some hard results. Yes, we ended up with a nice record but we are going to end up with one win over a team that's in the NCAAs. We have ONE conference win over a +0.500 team. There's no guarantee the schedule will do us such favors next year (as it was NOT such a favor in many ways too) and likely the conference will be much improved.

I just feel like we're going to keep having this conversation with Miles at the helm.

[hskr4life]

3 minutes ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

I think it's really easy to say Jacobsen and Morrow left because they saw the writing on the wall AFTER the fact. I think Ed was tired of playing the 5 because of our inability to recruit a true big man at the time.  If you are a true team player, you will do what is best for the team.  ED shouldn't be tired of playing the 5 because that is the best position for Ed.  I think we can see the huge difference between a true 4 (Copeland) and a want to be 4 (Ed).  Ed couldn't shoot, Ed could bang, Ed could rebound, Ed was best around the basket.  That screams more 5 than 4 to me.  See Isiah Roby and what he is able to do at the 5.  Don't see him complaining. 

 

Then when he left it put Jacobsen right back into the same place as well. Both were tired of playing center more than anything I believe.  See comments on Ed.  Also... Hello Isiah Roby and Jordy T.  No time for Mike J this year.  Sorry.   This was not a huge loss for the program as some think.  Mike was more seeing the writing on the wall than Ed.  Mike would have been behind Copeland, Jordy, Roby, and Ed this year.  That would leave not very many minutes for Mike.

 

Obviously Copeland really has made a difference, but who the heck knows how that back surgery was going to turn out for sure. I don't think they'd really even seen much from Copeland at that time anyhow.  Only that he was a 5* coming out of high school, had a pretty good Freshman season at Georgetown, and knew that he was really highly thought of from about everyone in the program.

I'm just saying, I personally am growing tired of the salesmanship from Miles and am ready for more results. Don't sell me on the recruiting class and that "we're going to be as good as they take us" and then most of them end up leaving. Again, the product we put on the floor this year was better than what we had.  Isn't that the goal.  To recruit a class that is "going to be as good as they take us" and then recruit and find players who are better?  Miles did that.  You have to point out the positive of those two leaving with the fact that we won 10 more games (so far) with the new product than the old product.

 

I get a coach's job is partially being optimistic, but we need some hard results.   Yes, we ended up with a nice record but we are going to end up with one win over a team that's in the NCAAs. We have ONE conference win over a +0.500 team. There's no guarantee the schedule will do us such favors next year (as it was NOT such a favor in many ways too) and likely the conference will be much improved.  You just contradicted yourself in that you want hard results (We win the second most games in school history) and then say that there isn't enough hard results.  People can point to this and that as reasons why our record is what it is, but fact is that we have that many wins because we didn't lose games.  Period.  We didn't put together the Big 10 schedule.  We won games.  That is what matters.  At the end of the day, you do the best with what you have.  We don't win a single game this season and 22 more wins are on the board for our opponents.

I just feel like we're going to keep having this conversation with Miles at the helm.  Only if you look at all of the negatives without seeing some of the positives.  Just because he had a rough 3 year stretch and you had your mind made up this year doesn't mean that you have to stick with it even though we had a bad year.

 

At this point, I think you are just trying really hard to find a reason to fire Miles right now.  You keep bringing up the same points and then when someone counters you with solid point you end up bringing up the same rough points again.  However, I will bite.

[Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty]

http://www.huskers.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=100&ATCLID=211704396

 

Looks like we're playing in a four-team tourney next year in Kansas City next year with Texas Tech, USC, and Missouri State. Should be virtual home games for us. I hope we don't draw Missouri State.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty

[colhusker]

1 hour ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

I think it's really easy to say Jacobsen and Morrow left because they saw the writing on the wall AFTER the fact. I think Ed was tired of playing the 5 because of our inability to recruit a true big man at the time. Then when he left it put Jacobsen right back into the same place as well. Both were tired of playing center more than anything I believe. Obviously Copeland really has made a difference, but who the heck knows how that back surgery was going to turn out for sure. I don't think they'd really even seen much from Copeland at that time anyhow.

I'm just saying, I personally am growing tired of the salesmanship from Miles and am ready for more results. Don't sell me on the recruiting class and that "we're going to be as good as they take us" and then most of them end up leaving. I get a coach's job is partially being optimistic, but we need some hard results. Yes, we ended up with a nice record but we are going to end up with one win over a team that's in the NCAAs. We have ONE conference win over a +0.500 team. There's no guarantee the schedule will do us such favors next year (as it was NOT such a favor in many ways too) and likely the conference will be much improved.

I just feel like we're going to keep having this conversation with Miles at the helm.

As was pointed out elsewhere, some of those sub .500 teams are because we beat them to put them there.  Yes the conference may be better next year and we may also be one of those better teams.  You want to fire a coach because the conference may be better?  You fire a guy that just won the second most games in a schools history and you might as well plan on sucking for a while afterwards because no one is going to touch the place.  Need an example, look no further than our football program. How has our football program has done after firing a coach that won 75% of games? And no I am not sure he was the long term answer to replace Tom, but once Frank was let go, the bottom fell out.  And at least with that example, there is some positive history to build on.  And again, it's not like Doc left Tim a roster full of 4- and 5-star talent that was ready to go.  

 

Good lord, we get it, you don't like Miles

Edited March 6, 2018 by colhusker

[Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty]

14 minutes ago, colhusker said:

As was pointed out elsewhere, some of those sub .500 teams are because we beat them to put them there.  Yes the conference may be better next year and we may also be one of those better teams.  You want to fire a coach because the conference may be better?  You fire a guy that just won the second most games in a schools history and you might as well plan on sucking for a while afterwards because no one is going to touch the place.  Need an example, look no further than our football program. How our football program has done after firing a coach that won 75% of games and no I am not sure he was the long term answer to replace Tom.  But once Frank was let the bottom fell out.  And at least with that example, there is some positive history to build on.  And again, it's not like Doc left Tim a roster full of 4- and 5-star talent that was ready to go.  

 

Good lord, we get it, you don't like Miles

 

I actually think the football program is a great example for why we SHOULD fire Miles (not this year... I'm strictly saying if we miss the dance next year). When you know it isn't working with the current guy, you try again. Most people knew that we were stepping into the unknown by firing Bo, and that there's a chance the next guy could be worse. But with him, we weren't reaching the potential we knew we had, so we took a risk and at least tried (if you can consider Eichorst's coaching search "trying").

 

We all know that we didn't get the right guy to replace Bo, but ultimately, firing him led to Frost. If we stuck with Bo and continued to win 9 games against mediocre opponents, who knows if we would have ended up firing Eichorst and who knows if we would have ended up firing Bo this year to go for Frost. So the lesson I took away from it was that you don't just stay stagnant because you fear that you can't do better. This basketball program can do better than 5 straight missed tourneys, which is where we'd be with Tim if we don't get in this or next year.

Edited March 6, 2018 by Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty

[colhusker]

22 minutes ago, Cookie Miller Wasn't Dirty said:

 

I actually think the football program is a great example for why we SHOULD fire Miles (not this year... I'm strictly saying if we miss the dance next year). When you know it isn't working with the current guy, you try again. Most people knew that we were stepping into the unknown by firing Bo, and that there's a chance the next guy could be worse. But with him, we weren't reaching the potential we knew we had, so we took a risk and at least tried (if you can consider Eichorst's coaching search "trying").

 

We all know that we didn't get the right guy to replace Bo, but ultimately, firing him led to Frost. If we stuck with Bo and continued to win 9 games against mediocre opponents, who knows if we would have ended up firing Eichorst and who knows if we would have ended up firing Bo this year to go for Frost. So the lesson I took away from it was that you don't just stay stagnant because you fear that you can't do better. This basketball program can do better than 5 straight missed tourneys, which is where we'd be with Tim if we don't get in this or next year.

Bo is example two of why firing a coach that is successful or semi-success if a bad idea.  Again, we have a football history that might have overcome the fact we fired a second coach with a better than 70% winning record. Sidenote per your comment, I like the Frost hire a lot, but before I am going claim he's the savior to the program, I'm going to let him coach a season.  Anyone that thinks we can just fire our coach and get the next up and coming coach in basketball is kidding themselves (I would say I want what they are drinking, but I am to job two here in a few minutes and I get to sip the wonderful we are bottling).  Hell as I sit here and type, I am reminded that we fired the most successful coach we've had in basketball and that led to Collier and Doc.  

Edited March 6, 2018 by colhusker

[Bugeaters1]

Bo is example two of why firing a coach that is successful or semi-success if a bad idea.  Again, we have a football history that might have overcome the fact we fired a second coach with a better than 70% winning record. Sidenote per your comment, I like the Frost hire a lot, but before I am going to let him coach a season before I say he is the answer to our football woes.  Anyone that thinks we can just fire our coach and get the next up and coming coach in basketball is kidding themselves (I would say I want what they are drinking, but I am to job two here in a few minutes and I get to sip the wonderful we are bottling).  Hell as I sit here and type, I am reminded that we fired the most successful coach we've had in basketball and that led to Collier and Doc.  

U sure u aren't sipping already?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[colhusker]

2 minutes ago, Bugeaters1 said:

U sure u aren't sipping already?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
 

Not yet, but soon, very soon! The spelling and lack of semicolons is just typing to fast and having a phobia against proof reading.

Edited March 6, 2018 by colhusker

[Bugeaters1]

Not yet, but soon, very soon! The spelling and lack of semicolons is just typing to fast and having a phobia against proof reading.

Ok, I thought maybe u were hitting the juice already.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

[Art Vandalay]

2 hours ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

I think it's really easy to say Jacobsen and Morrow left because they saw the writing on the wall AFTER the fact. I think Ed was tired of playing the 5 because of our inability to recruit a true big man at the time. Then when he left it put Jacobsen right back into the same place as well. Both were tired of playing center more than anything I believe. Obviously Copeland really has made a difference, but who the heck knows how that back surgery was going to turn out for sure. I don't think they'd really even seen much from Copeland at that time anyhow.

I'm just saying, I personally am growing tired of the salesmanship from Miles and am ready for more results. Don't sell me on the recruiting class and that "we're going to be as good as they take us" and then most of them end up leaving. I get a coach's job is partially being optimistic, but we need some hard results. Yes, we ended up with a nice record but we are going to end up with one win over a team that's in the NCAAs. We have ONE conference win over a +0.500 team. There's no guarantee the schedule will do us such favors next year (as it was NOT such a favor in many ways too) and likely the conference will be much improved.

I just feel like we're going to keep having this conversation with Miles at the helm.

 

If you do not think at least part of the reason those guys left is because of better competition I do not know what to say. Ed basically lost his job last year to Jordy who continued starting after Ed came back from injury. You could tell at the time that did not sit well with him. They fully knew the hype on Copeland and I bet they saw Roby's potential everyday. I agree he probably did not want to play the 5 either but he saw the writing and I am not sure he just needed a fresh start.

 

Miles also said after that recruiting class, it is his job to go out and get even better players every year. He did that so those guys were in a tough spot but you seem to be blaming Miles for good recruiting. Also crazy to blame the BIG10 issues as pointed out we are the reason some of those teams do not seem as good. We should not even be having this conversation and hopefully he doubles down next year and we get momentum but who knows I am going to enjoy the success while it is here.

[B-town hoopsfan]

Morrow was essentially palmers size plus 20 pounds, let that sink in then imagine him going against fives in this league( not sure what his wing span is put it’s likely compable to palmers) you really can’t blame him for transferring out and probably should question if he wasn’t over ranked as a prospect. Wish him the best at Marquette but inless his range significantly improves he’s playing the five there too. 

 

Jacobson woulda made a great 5, had some range n some defensive mobility. But he didn’t wanna play the 5 either so best wishes to him at Iowa state too. 

 

The funny thing is we basically play positionless basketball now inless jordy is on the floor, morrow n Jacobsen probably woulda fit into that just in reduced rolls 

[cipsucks]

1 hour ago, colhusker said:

Bo is example two of why firing a coach that is successful or semi-success if a bad idea.  Again, we have a football history that might have overcome the fact we fired a second coach with a better than 70% winning record. Sidenote per your comment, I like the Frost hire a lot, but before I am going claim he's the savior to the program, I'm going to let him coach a season.  Anyone that thinks we can just fire our coach and get the next up and coming coach in basketball is kidding themselves (I would say I want what they are drinking, but I am to job two here in a few minutes and I get to sip the wonderful we are bottling).  Hell as I sit here and type, I am reminded that we fired the most successful coach we've had in basketball and that led to Collier and Doc.  

I see a difference between the two programs when it comes to coaching hires.  The reason I know Frost will be successful is because he was part of the winning formula Devaney and Osborne developed here.  He's stated he's going back to it.   Pelini, Callahan and Riley had no clue about that formula.  Basketball is completely different.  There's no proven formula.  Nee had it rolling for 6 or 7 years, but no formula.  And in the end, he stayed a year or 3 too long.  Collier and Doc aren't any different than any other coaches we've had in the last century.  Footnotes, at best.  I hope Miles is on the verge of greatness. What is his formula?  Nee got us to relevancy in 4 years.  Miles in 6, so not far off.  I need to see his vision to become a believer.

[tcp]

3 hours ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

I think it's really easy to say Jacobsen and Morrow left because they saw the writing on the wall AFTER the fact. I think Ed was tired of playing the 5 because of our inability to recruit a true big man at the time. Then when he left it put Jacobsen right back into the same place as well. Both were tired of playing center more than anything I believe. Obviously Copeland really has made a difference, but who the heck knows how that back surgery was going to turn out for sure. I don't think they'd really even seen much from Copeland at that time anyhow.

I'm just saying, I personally am growing tired of the salesmanship from Miles and am ready for more results. Don't sell me on the recruiting class and that "we're going to be as good as they take us" and then most of them end up leaving. I get a coach's job is partially being optimistic, but we need some hard results. Yes, we ended up with a nice record but we are going to end up with one win over a team that's in the NCAAs. We have ONE conference win over a +0.500 team. There's no guarantee the schedule will do us such favors next year (as it was NOT such a favor in many ways too) and likely the conference will be much improved.

I just feel like we're going to keep having this conversation with Miles at the helm.

 

I don't agree with this post but I think it's reasonable so wanted to vote it up. This is not an unfair position to have given the body of work. I was a huge fan of Morrow's potential and his loss hurt us. At the same time, building a program from scratch seems to be harder than ever, what with the sheer volume of Div 1 choices AND the propensity of poorer players with talent to stay much closer to home. I suppose it's a case of, "if Timmeh fails, I'm no longer sure who could succeed".

[HolyBobpilgrimage]

4 hours ago, hskr4life said:

 

At this point, I think you are just trying really hard to find a reason to fire Miles right now.  You keep bringing up the same points and then when someone counters you with solid point you end up bringing up the same rough points again.  However, I will bite.

Some people just do... It's just how they are. While I understand a good neutral point of view and perspective, there will always be nay Sayers in the crowd. When something gains popularity, you always get the negative people. But that's what makes it interesting... you get all points of view. 

At the same time, we try to weed out the most negative (different from constructive criticism) of fans, because imho we don't need that negative aura and atmosphere in the program. A lot of the longtime HHCers here would agree with me. I'm only learning as of the last couple years of the details of these dynamics. 

[ShortDust]

6 hours ago, Husker4theSpurs said:

I think it's really easy to say Jacobsen and Morrow left because they saw the writing on the wall AFTER the fact. I think Ed was tired of playing the 5 because of our inability to recruit a true big man at the time. Then when he left it put Jacobsen right back into the same place as well. Both were tired of playing center more than anything I believe. Obviously Copeland really has made a difference, but who the heck knows how that back surgery was going to turn out for sure. I don't think they'd really even seen much from Copeland at that time anyhow.

I'm just saying, I personally am growing tired of the salesmanship from Miles and am ready for more results. Don't sell me on the recruiting class and that "we're going to be as good as they take us" and then most of them end up leaving. I get a coach's job is partially being optimistic, but we need some hard results. Yes, we ended up with a nice record but we are going to end up with one win over a team that's in the NCAAs. We have ONE conference win over a +0.500 team. There's no guarantee the schedule will do us such favors next year (as it was NOT such a favor in many ways too) and likely the conference will be much improved.

I just feel like we're going to keep having this conversation with Miles at the helm.

Whelp let’s bring in Joe Schmo and start over. Back to the mid major market we come. Just seems like you wanna can miles after one of the best seasons in Husker history. It’s just asinine, it’s not his fault the schedule set up the way it did.

[Husker4theSpurs]

6 hours ago, hskr4life said:

 

At this point, I think you are just trying really hard to find a reason to fire Miles right now.  You keep bringing up the same points and then when someone counters you with solid point you end up bringing up the same rough points again.  However, I will bite.

Ed and Roby at the 5 are two different beasts. Morrow didn't have much going for him over other 5s. When he plays the 5 Roby has shooting range and speed. You might say I'm making your point for you, but the fact of the matter is that it's a tough comparison to make. If Roby continues to have to play the 5 against the latest of centers, I don't think he will be pleased but of course that's mere conjecture. We shall see ...

Regarding Copeland as a 5* ... he did decently at Georgetown but it's not like he was a superstar. Also, like I said he was coming off back surgery. Jacobsen definitely would've seen less minutes for sure however, but again likely didn't care to play center yet again. We don't really know what he was told about his role during his recruiting. But I agree that Jacobsen wasn't a major loss.

When I say "hard results" I'm talking NCAA tourney bids ... taking advantage of the opportunity presented with a down year in the league. In this day and age where there's not a lot of consistency year to year I'm not sure momentum year to year is as much of a factor, especially given our history under Miles. As many are talking about there's no guarantee our nucleus will be back and I personally doubt all key persons will be back.

You are right ... I have had my mind made up on Miles for a while. "Starting over" in basketball is not near as big a deal as in football. It might make sense to make a change right now if we do end up having a nice nucleus back. I like that Moos will have a fresh perspective on this. I don't anticipate anything will change though. He will likely give Miles an extension. Maybe Miles chooses to take a job elsewhere if the opportunity arises?

[Husker4theSpurs]

5 hours ago, colhusker said:

Bo is example two of why firing a coach that is successful or semi-success if a bad idea.  Again, we have a football history that might have overcome the fact we fired a second coach with a better than 70% winning record. Sidenote per your comment, I like the Frost hire a lot, but before I am going claim he's the savior to the program, I'm going to let him coach a season.  Anyone that thinks we can just fire our coach and get the next up and coming coach in basketball is kidding themselves (I would say I want what they are drinking, but I am to job two here in a few minutes and I get to sip the wonderful we are bottling).  Hell as I sit here and type, I am reminded that we fired the most successful coach we've had in basketball and that led to Collier and Doc.  

You are also talking about two people, Bo Pelini and Danny Nee, who almost made it impossible to keep them due to behavior, etc.

[Swan88]

Scheesh!  We are at a record-season for wins . . . and still bagging on Miles?!  Seriously!?

Moos is talking high praise for Miles . . . and internet geniuses are arguing otherwise!?

At least we aren’t paying to read such things on this board.