How does this years roster stack up to last years?

[Handy Johnson]

2 hours ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I agree. But what Sam provides is this - dude showed he can play at this level. Yeah he has his limitations. But he can play. What that does is it puts every incoming player at his position on notice. Sam looks like a guy that is all hustle all the time. Practice, hustle. Game, hustle. Walking to class, hustle. So if a new guy comes in slacking ass...Well, we got Sam we can put in and send a message. And putting Sam in doesn't give me pause one bit. 

What else Sam does regardless of the minutes he gets is knock down 3’s. 

[basketballjones]

1 hour ago, Handy Johnson said:

What else Sam does regardless of the minutes he gets is knock down 3’s. 

It's honestly what separates him from your normal walk on. And it's not just 3's. He has been able to drive and finish, along with making his FTs. There's thousands of guys you could recruit to come in and be Mr. Hustle-Smart Play-Grit guy. Virtually none of them can score or get their own bucket like Sam seems to have a knack for. 

[basketballjones]

On 5/11/2023 at 1:17 PM, Norm Peterson said:

Nice little lunch hour project. You want to compare last year's roster to this one coming up? Well ...

 

There were some fluctuations.

 

Game 1 starters vs. Maine:

 

PG Griesel

2G Bandoumel

3G Wilcher

4F Gary

5C Keita

 

Keita played 10 minutes; Denim played 24, scored no points, grabbed 1 board, committed 2 TOs.

 

Game 6 starters vs. Memphis:

 

PG Griesel

2G Bandoumel

3G Wilcher

4F Gary

5C Walker

 

The return of Walker. Blaise takes a seat.

 

Game 14 starters vs. Iowa:

 

PG Griesel

2G Bandoumel

3G Wilcher

4F Gary

5C Walker

 

Keisei logged 13 minutes, scored just 2 points. We still won.

 

Game 18 starters vs. Purdue:

 

PG Bandoumel

2G Wilcher

3G Dawson

4F Breidenbach

5C Walker

 

Keisei came off the bench to score 16 in a blowout loss.

 

Game 19 starters vs. tOSU:

 

PG Griesel

2G Tominaga

3G Bandoumel

4F Dawson

5C Walker 

 

CJ falls out of the starting lineup, hits 2 buckets in 20 minutes. Huskers win with only Keisei and Sam in double figures.

 

Game 21 starters vs. Northwestern:

 

PG Griesel

2G Tominaga

3G Lawrence

4G Dawson

5C Walker

 

Are you kidding me? Starting lineup the game after second starter lost for the season? This ain't even funny anymore. Dawson still starting. What choice do we have? Denim stays in the starting lineup until ...

 

Game 26 starters vs. Wisconsin:

 

PG Griesel

2G Tominaga

3G Lawrence

4F Breidenbach

5C Walker

 

Trying to find a way to not have Dawson in the starting lineup. Wilhelm comes in and lays a goose egg in the scoring column. Keita with 2 points in 23 minutes. Did I mention we won anyway?

 

Game 27 starters vs. Rutgers:

 

PG Griesel

2G Tominaga

3G Lawrence

4G Wilcher

5C Walker

 

Winning formula? Finally found the combo? Road win against a top-half team. This is your starting lineup for the rest of the season.

 

OK, comparing last year to this coming year:

 

So, you want to judge last year's *record* and assess next year's *prospects* by comparing rosters with the team that barely just broke even? Don't forget to factor in that Denim Dawson, who was essentially a true freshman, started 8 games last year, during which span we lost 6. He played 393 minutes, put up 47 points, turned the ball over 20 times, and committed 38 fouls. He was 35% from the floor and 40% from the line. And, especially after Gary went down, we had really no choice but to play him.

 

And Wilhelm Breidenbach. Good kid. Great effort. High motor. But ADHD. He had more minutes than Denim but averaged fewer minutes per game.  Scored 116 points against 25 turnovers and 62 personal fouls. Only shot 38.5% from the floor and barely 60% from the stripe. Wilhelm was whistled for more fouls than any other player on the team except Derrick Walker (by 3) despite Walker playing more than twice as many minutes.

 

Now, you can say, well, those two were bit players. Bottom end of the roster. Comparing apples to apples means you only look at the likely rotation guys. Well, but Wilhelm and Denim combined for more minutes than Keisei and nearly as many as Derrick Walker.

 

We played 32 games this last season. Four OT games means we had 6500 minutes on the season to spread around, and 12.3% of those minutes, and 10 starts, went to two guys who would not likely see the floor for this next year's team if they had stuck around.

 

The top end of the lineup might not be quite as good (yet to be seen), but we're not going to be running ANY players out there next year who basically don't belong in a P6 rotation. The bottom and middle of the roster are going to be a lot better.

 

We're going to field more guys who can score at more positions than any Hoiberg team to date. Just for some perspective, CJ Wilcher started 24 games for us last year. He's going to be lucky to be in the rotation next year. Doesn't that tell you something?

 

Just some perspective.

Well ok then..... I'll start looking at plane tickets for Phoenix 

[hhcmatt]

3 hours ago, basketballjones said:

It's honestly what separates him from your normal walk on. And it's not just 3's. He has been able to drive and finish, along with making his FTs. There's thousands of guys you could recruit to come in and be Mr. Hustle-Smart Play-Grit guy. Virtually none of them can score or get their own bucket like Sam seems to have a knack for. 

 

He sealed at least 2 games for us by getting to the right spot at the right time.

[Swan88]

49 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

 

He sealed at least 2 games for us by getting to the right spot at the right time.

Yeah.

If Sam is the main guy, the team is probably in trouble.  
But in a support role with great players on the court, he shines brightly.

[Fullbacksympathy]

11 hours ago, basketballjones said:

It's honestly what separates him from your normal walk on. And it's not just 3's. He has been able to drive and finish, along with making his FTs. There's thousands of guys you could recruit to come in and be Mr. Hustle-Smart Play-Grit guy. Virtually none of them can score or get their own bucket like Sam seems to have a knack for. 

Agree.  And he’s a weight room kid.  He’s physically stronger than almost anyone he’s guarding.  

[Dead Dog Alley]

15 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

He sealed at least 2 games for us by getting to the right spot at the right time.

 

Nobody else makes those plays unless they have the freedom that comes with being the coach's kid.  Anyone else is too worried about sticking with their assignment, and wouldn't take the chances Sam did on those plays.

[Huskerpapa]

1 hour ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Nobody else makes those plays unless they have the freedom that comes with being the coach's kid.  Anyone else is too worried about sticking with their assignment, and wouldn't take the chances Sam did on those plays.

Yeah, I am not convinced that is true.

Some players have the inate ability to anticipate plays.  Their DNA includes the want to make plays, the wherewithal to study film, hustle, and many other miscellaneous traits.  Cookie Belcher made those plays; as did Bruce Chubick and Rick Scantlebury and Brian Banks.  

[Handy Johnson]

2 hours ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Nobody else makes those plays unless they have the freedom that comes with being the coach's kid.  Anyone else is too worried about sticking with their assignment, and wouldn't take the chances Sam did on those plays.

I’d say those instincts are honed & sharpened BECAUSE he’s a Coaches kid. 

[hhcmatt]

2 hours ago, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Nobody else makes those plays unless they have the freedom that comes with being the coach's kid.  Anyone else is too worried about sticking with their assignment, and wouldn't take the chances Sam did on those plays.

 

'Worried about sticking with their [defensive] assignment' doesn't describe the play of the first 4 years of the Hoiberg Era

[aphilso1]

Sam is not the same quality of defender as someone like Bandoumel or Gary.  He's a gambler and thankfully those gambles paid off in key moments, which is what makes them memorable.  But overall his defensive style looks more like Alonzo Verge than it does Bando.  He's not a lockdown defender, and he tries to make up for that by timing doubles and cutting off passing lanes.  

[millerhusker]

Jett Howard is one of the laziest/worst defenders I've ever seen at the Big Ten level. Not all coaches kids are wired the same. 

[Norm Peterson]

23 hours ago, aphilso1 said:

Sam is not the same quality of defender as someone like Bandoumel or Gary.  He's a gambler and thankfully those gambles paid off in key moments, which is what makes them memorable.  But overall his defensive style looks more like Alonzo Verge than it does Bando.  He's not a lockdown defender, and he tries to make up for that by timing doubles and cutting off passing lanes.  

 

Well, one thing that also impressed me about Sam is he has lightning reflexes and amazingly quick hands. If there's a loose ball bouncing in his general vicinity, there's a good chance he'll come away with it. That stood out to me watching him last season. Yeah, he might not be the most athletic cat out there, but he's got some other tools that provide him some advantages.

[hhcmatt]

48 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Well, one thing that also impressed me about Sam is he has lightning reflexes and amazingly quick hands. If there's a loose ball bouncing in his general vicinity, there's a good chance he'll come away with it. That stood out to me watching him last season. Yeah, he might not be the most athletic cat out there, but he's got some other tools that provide him some advantages.

 

Ryan Anderson was the same way. That's how he got away with playing center.

[Fullbacksympathy]

On 5/16/2023 at 8:38 AM, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Nobody else makes those plays unless they have the freedom that comes with being the coach's kid.  Anyone else is too worried about sticking with their assignment, and wouldn't take the chances Sam did on those plays.

As a coach’s kid who has a coach’s kid, I can promise there is a heck of a lot less freedom in most instances.  
 

Sam is an extremely good team defender.  He can get beat off the dribble once in awhile, but he sees the entire court precisely because he’s a coach’s kid. 
 

He’s also 6’ and dunks two handed, so it isn’t like he’s some throwback.  He has D1 athleticism and strength to boot.  He’s just short. 

[Norm Peterson]

Wut

 

 

[49r]

@Norm Peterson there is a whole lot of wrong in that list, but then again Torvik's predictions aren't much better (at least he's got #1 right):

 

https://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php?conlimit=B10&state=All&year=2023&sort=

Edited May 31, 2023 by 49r

[basketballjones]

On 5/16/2023 at 8:38 AM, Dead Dog Alley said:

 

Nobody else makes those plays unless they have the freedom that comes with being the coach's kid.  Anyone else is too worried about sticking with their assignment, and wouldn't take the chances Sam did on those plays.

Not sure I could disagree with you more. 
Maybe the knowledge comes from being a coach's kid, but the freedom doesn't. Typically it's the opposite. 

[hskr4life]

Don’t everyone be hopping on our bandwagon now.  

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, 49r said:

@Norm Peterson there is a whole lot of wrong in that list, but then again Torvik's predictions aren't much better (at least he's got #1 right):

 

https://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php?conlimit=B10&state=All&year=2023&sort=

 

Agreed. But seeing the prediction for Michigan, it reminds me of the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson: "The ship be sinking." Been a lot of off-season bad news for the Maise and Blues.

[millerhusker]

8 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Agreed. But seeing the prediction for Michigan, it reminds me of the immortal words of Michael Ray Richardson: "The ship be sinking." Been a lot of off-season bad news for the Maise and Blues.

Was just a matter of time. Basketball does a good job of revealing character and Juwan Howard did not carry himself well as a player and certainly doesn't as a coach. 

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, 49r said:

@Norm Peterson there is a whole lot of wrong in that list, but then again Torvik's predictions aren't much better (at least he's got #1 right):

 

https://barttorvik.com/trankpre.php?conlimit=B10&state=All&year=2023&sort=

 

Can you explain the Torvik numbers to me?

 

I don't know what some of the abbreviations stand for. Some I can figure out. But what is this "talent" thing? I mean it looks like we are by far the least talented team in the league. (Insert joke here.) I mean, yeah, that's what the eye test tells us, but how does he crunch those numbers to come up with that?

[49r]

10 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Can you explain the Torvik numbers to me?

 

I don't know what some of the abbreviations stand for. Some I can figure out. But what is this "talent" thing? I mean it looks like we are by far the least talented team in the league. (Insert joke here.) I mean, yeah, that's what the eye test tells us, but how does he crunch those numbers to come up with that?

 

I'm sure @hhcmatt will weigh in here with the correct answer shortly, but if I had to take a stab at it I would say "talent" is some kind of average recruiting ranking score for each teams' roster.  Michigan has been absolutely killing it in recruiting now for pretty much all of Juwan's tenure, so it would make sense that they are top of the Big Ten here.

 

We are lowest on "talent" but we are #1 in the Big Ten in "experience" and I have always said that to be successful in college hoops you need to have an old team or a team full of highly ranked players.  Usually being old trumps being talented all other things being equal.  The best combo is being old and talented.

 

Torvik gives us a high score also on our Transfers in (second in the Big Ten) so with all those factors considered it is enough to overcome our last in the league talent level and get us to lower-middle class status within the Big Ten for his offseason rankings.

 

Finally, the thing that maybe jumps right out at me looking at this is Michigan State's transfer score.  0.  They are middle of the pack in experience and second in talent.  That to me means they are a fairly old and incredibly talented team who has been playing together for a while now.  Add in a HOF coach and I really like them this upcoming season.

[hhcmatt]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Can you explain the Torvik numbers to me?

 

I don't know what some of the abbreviations stand for. Some I can figure out. But what is this "talent" thing? I mean it looks like we are by far the least talented team in the league. (Insert joke here.) I mean, yeah, that's what the eye test tells us, but how does he crunch those numbers to come up with that?

 

If you are able to mouse over the abbreviations, it will show you the full columns.

RPMS = Returning Possession Minutes

 

As far as talent goes, I'd assume that is based on stuff like Rivals projections as when I look at the previous years this stat was used I find that the Bryce McGowens Star City team was the 'most talented'  for Nebraska,which makes sense. (This is only the 3rd year he's used that attribute)

https://barttorvik.com/trankpure22.php

https://barttorvik.com/trankpure23.php

 

Otherwise here is an explainer

http://adamcwisports.blogspot.com/2015/09/t-rank-2016-preview-nuts-and-bolts.html

Generally it's a combination of previous years (good teams tend to stay good), player ratings, age, and returning minutes.

 

We likely are a team that doesn't have a single NBA player on it.  We are a team that brings back a lot of minutes and replenished our roster with veterans; We proved we can win games last year.  Our ceiling isn't terribly high but we keep raising the floor.  With any luck another year of success will put us into the running to increase our TALENT numbers.

[Norm Peterson]

7 minutes ago, hhcmatt said:

We likely are a team that doesn't have a single NBA player on it.  We are a team that brings back a lot of minutes and replenished our roster with veterans; We proved we can win games last year.  Our ceiling isn't terribly high but we keep raising the floor.  With any luck another year of success will put us into the running to increase our TALENT numbers.

 

I think this past season was an important season for Fred's future here and it put us in a position to have a good off-season in the portal, which I think we did.

 

So, next year is another important season. Need to maintain that upward trajectory. Need to maybe do a little better than people expect.

 

And, notably, we still have a couple of spots open and there's still a chance we could add another important piece.