PENN STATE GAME DAY THREAD

[Red Don]

Tough, Tough Loss, Just too many mistakes made in the last 5 minutes to blow a 13 point lead.

 

Shots were going in for them; not for us, then our mistakes , poor passing, and fouling at the basket giving them 3-pt plays. 

Final:

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Red Don

[whoopdeedoo]

very, very disappointing. what a big thud!!!

[Fastbreaker]

Not having Scoggins really hurt.

[Redhac]

Amy Williams is largely responsible for this loss in not calling time out before we get down to a  slim lead!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Also she needs to coach the fundamentals of passing and press breaking!   This was a horrible loss that we should not have lost!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   Geez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mwm89]

The last 7 1/2 minutes was like Ali hitting with constant blows in the corner of the ropes.  Life on the road in the B1G (or anywhere really) is tough.  They hit a good share of 3s and got and 1 on breaks.  We do need to handle the press and inbounds passes with more composure and more discipline (and better strategy?).  Hard to sum up in words how disappointing this is considering where we were in the start of the 4th.  Going to have to come back and play one of our best games again against Minn.  The old adage: you're only as good as your last game.  Glaringly clear right now.  GO BIG RED!

Edited February 18, 2022 by mwm89

[12dozen]

Moriarty played one minute, Coley none.  We gave up 83 points and a couple of our better defenders watched.  Also short a player (Scoggin).  We seemed to be running on vapors towards the end.  I agree with Redhac.  Coaches should look in the mirror regarding this "L".

 

Once again, it becomes apparent why we aren't rated higher.  That doesn't mean we aren't a good team.  Just shows, not much room for error at this level.

[whoopdeedoo]

their passing at times just makes you want to throw up. even look near the end of the Indiana game. what the heck went on there for about a minute and a half? lucky they had a big lead. 

 

just caught coach talking to matt about how tough it is to win on the road. i'd like to hear her say this is a game we p****d right down our leg. we should have won this game. hold the team more accountable. you can praise PSU for their fight, but, a game huskers should have won. didn't catch the whole interview, maybe coach stated something along that line early in the interview.

Edited February 18, 2022 by whoopdeedoo

[Cazzie22]

You have to call a timeout before a 13 point lead disappears.  We had numerous opportunities to stretch the lead throughout the game and then made silly and in some cases, unforced, errors that PSU capitalized upon.  I guess you chalk up as a learning experience. 

[KarlHessEatMy....]

This team is so much fun. This loss sucks but we know what they can do... I think this will do them good going into the end of the year to help them out with needing to play smarter ball. They can easily still win big ten tournament that is how good they can be...  

[Red Don]

28 minutes ago, 12dozen said:

Moriarty played one minute, Coley none.  We gave up 83 points and a couple of our better defenders watched.  Also short a player (Scoggin).  We seemed to be running on vapors towards the end.  I agree with Redhac.  Coaches should look in the mirror regarding this "L".

 

Once again, it becomes apparent why we aren't rated higher.  That doesn't mean we aren't a good team.  Just shows, not much room for error at this level.

 

I hear what you're saying, but I don't know who I'd want to sub out?   I don't think it was the defense (seems like everything was going in for them in the 4th).  I think it was more on our offense; i.e. poor passing, giving up steals (5-13)  and mental errors near the end that gave them 3-point chances on made baskets.  Really a lack of poise at the end (inexplicable lapse at the end of the Indiana game is another example mentioned by Whoop).  I agree with Cazzie & Karl,  something you chalk up to experience and learn to play smarter.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Red Don

[caveman]

They average 71 pts. per game.  The goal when you travel is to hold opponents 10 pts. below their season average.  The goal is not to give them 12pts. above their season average and hope to outscore them.  Poorer shooting on the road is a reality.  Make no mistake this is on the defense.  If you have a 13 pt. lead on the road in Q4, you put out the the best 5 defenders and shut them down.  The W might not look pretty, but at the end of the day a bad loss is worse and yes this is on the coaching.  The good news is that they are also learning and getting better.

[Tom Jones]

i am reluctant to criticize coaching in general and I am a Williams fan in particular, but I make a few exceptions.  Top of the list - I have long failed to understand this staff's under usage of time outs.  A 13 point lead disintegrated as PSU needed less than two minutes to score 15 points. The one time out used came late in the that run and another IIRC, was available. To me, players looked stunned as the storm formed around them. An earlier TO and maybe another one with a "settle down" talk and a designated play and a break in PSU momentum - that seems to me to the recipe and what nearly any other coach would do. 

 

[whoopdeedoo]

26 minutes ago, Tom Jones said:

i am reluctant to criticize coaching in general and I am a Williams fan in particular, but I make a few exceptions.  Top of the list - I have long failed to understand this staff's under usage of time outs.  A 13 point lead disintegrated as PSU needed less than two minutes to score 15 points. The one time out used came late in the that run and another IIRC, was available. To me, players looked stunned as the storm formed around them. An earlier TO and maybe another one with a "settle down" talk and a designated play and a break in PSU momentum - that seems to me to the recipe and what nearly any other coach would do. 

 

i am not sure how many time outs the huskers had left..........but, with what was going on not a time to worry about it! 

[All About the Corn]

I think what is really disappointing is the fact we gave up so many points so quickly. Amy likes to save timeouts for end of games when it's tight and you need to draw up something but in this case she should have called early only once it was clear they was on a roll and we know how quick it turned and by the time she did it was too late. This loss is not just on the staff but we are not ready to be a top 4 (conference) caliber team. Will we finish the rest of the way 3-0? I am not sure at this point. 

[redsteve]

A "trap game" ?

We were ok in the first half.  But we seemed to fall back to previous years...  kind of soft defense...particularly lack of covering people on the perimeter. PSU shot about 40% from the three.  Ugh. 

Agree with some other comments about time out usage, and adjustments. We didn't slow them down.... it just got worse. We kind of left the door open and they saw it...took advantage. The home team advantage seemed to play out.

 

Other teams are doing now.

Press us, and in the 1/2 court, use a zone defense.  In general we handled the press to an acceptable level, but never really adjusted to the zone. It all slowed down our tempo. And we had a hard time getting people open on our own perimeter...the second half in particular.

 

But in the fourth we just seem to run out of gas. All the hype from beating Indiana left us a bit distracted and unprepared for this next game maybe??. 

 

Like someone else said, no play for Moriarity and Coley ? They're  long and lean, good quickness. And I don't mean wait until the 4th qtr....try in the 2nd and 3rd with a zone maybe. We really need those two down the road. Hope we don't get into issues with them riding the bench. 

 

Anyway it's all the staff's responsibility to address all this stuff.  Really see us motivated and answering the bell next game(s). Not surprising..I'm sure... doesn't sit well with the girls.  Too much pride in what they can do. 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by redsteve

[12dozen]

13 hours ago, Red Don said:

 

I hear what you're saying, but I don't know who I'd want to sub out?   I don't think it was the defense (seems like everything was going in for them in the 4th).  I think it was more on our offense; i.e. poor passing, giving up steals (5-13)  and mental errors near the end that gave them 3-point chances on made baskets.  Really a lack of poise at the end (inexplicable lapse at the end of the Indiana game is another example mentioned by Whoop).  I agree with Cazzie & Karl,  something you chalk up to experience and learn to play smarter.

We had 5 players play 30 minutes or more.  Penn State had 2.   We weren't the fresher team at the end.  We held a decent lead, most of the game.  There was plenty of time to give kids a breather.  Fatigue leads to all the things you mentioned.  In truth, the suspect passing and inability to handle pressure are recurring issues (for years).  The Whitish years, we attributed it to a lack of guards. Not sure numbers are the problem any more.  

 

Still, we are having a good year.  Probability of being in the 'Big Dance' is high.  Recruiting is on the rise.  The sky is not falling.  That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.  With success, comes expectations.  That's what make forums like this one, entertaining.

[HUD]

One of the big issues I see which has occurred too often all year long is that we have too many  poor inbounds passes. Whether we do it under our basket or the opponents we have way too many turnovers.  Don't remember us struggling quite this much other years.  Seems like we used to have someone taller in past years doing the inbounding or maybe my memory is failing me.

[HUD]

It seems to me that we play considerably worse on the road than at home this year compared to other years.  The competition has been pretty much balanced between home and away.  On the road we are 2-6 being outscored by a total of 23 points.   At home we are 6-1 outscoring the opposition by a total of 94 points.  We can say we are a young team but looking at the years of playing basketball versus the revised eligibility due to covid we have 6 players that are juniors or above.  Last night we had 5 (with Scoggins out) of the 8 that played most of the minutes.  This group of upper classmen need to set the standard in their play to win away games. I didn't see that last night.  Too often especially on defense they looked like spectators.  Another thing is taking care of the ball.  Way too many of our pass attempts are low % ones that often result in turnovers.  This is a big key especially on away games where each possession is of vital importance.

[Red Don]

5 hours ago, 12dozen said:

Still, we are having a good year.  Probability of being in the 'Big Dance' is high.  Recruiting is on the rise.  The sky is not falling.  That doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement.  With success, comes expectations.  That's what make forums like this one, entertaining.

 

Just to follow through on your post @12dozen  (and not trying to be a contrarian) We are having a GREAT Year!!!   Far exceeding my expectations at the beginning of the season (I think just a solid finish in the top half of the B1G would be showing improvement), but maybe falling a little short of my revised expectations caused by 'irrational exuberance' from our 12-0 start.  Regardless, we still have expectations of both a good showing in the B1G tournament and making the Dance.   Work to be done, Yes.  Passing, Protecting the ball, Breaking Presses, Inbounding and Handling Pressure, i.e. Poise down the stretch.  It seems to me we have the tools.  Opposing teams all too often seem to be successful in making us Uncomfortable, which, come to think about it is what 'Defense' is all about.

 

There is precious little known about recruiting, but almost without our realizing it Coach Williams has assembled a talented team, one that meshes well together, from various sources;  Transfers, Returning Players, and Incoming Freshmen.  And there are talented players on the roster that are red-shirting (Popa) , or injured (Dillard), I am looking forward to seeing on the floor at some point.   While recruiting information is scant, we do know that highly-regarded recruits Maggie Mendelson (2-sport player) and Callin Hake have signed and we should see next season. 

 

I can't help but think future prospects are excellent; Who wouldn't want to come play on a team that has such regard for each other and obvious joy in playing together.  With the success of in-state recruits Whitney Brown (walk-on, played a lot last year, starting some games), Alexis Markowski and Allison Weidner, things should be looking good for in-state recruiting.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Red Don

[All About the Corn]

For us to get into the top tier of the conference we need to bring the same intensity that we had against Indiana when we play PSU or the like. Players and coaches talk about learning from losses but we still make some of the same mistakes. For us to move up those things need to be cleaned up. We are a better team than PSU and we should beat them at home or away. I feel like we take one more loss before the B1G tourney. Hope I am wrong. 

[Gamafn]

This team’s player development is an enigma.  The team is better than last year because of impressive team culture and additions to the roster, especially Markowski, Shelley and Weidner.  But none of the returning players has gotten significantly better, and several have seemingly regressed.  And Jaz’s performance trajectory during the year has also pretty clearly been uneven at best after showing elite promise early (yes I know the competition has increased). This seems to be a pattern with Williams-coached teams, e.g., Cain, Whitish.  Kudos to the coaching staff for some solid recruiting and team culture development, but Xs and Os, in-game coaching and player development are still suspect.

The obvious exception is Markowski, who has ascended this year from a key sub to the clear choice for B1G Frosh of the Year and probable All-B1G recognition.  She may be the only player who has played consistently well since the start of the new year.  But has she really been coached up, or was she always this good and just needed playing time and confidence?  

[Bugeaters1]

38 minutes ago, Gamafn said:

This team’s player development is an enigma.  The team is better than last year because of impressive team culture and additions to the roster, especially Markowski, Shelley and Weidner.  But none of the returning players has gotten significantly better, and several have seemingly regressed.  And Jaz’s performance trajectory during the year has also pretty clearly been uneven at best after showing elite promise early (yes I know the competition has increased). This seems to be a pattern with Williams-coached teams, e.g., Cain, Whitish.  Kudos to the coaching staff for some solid recruiting and team culture development, but Xs and Os, in-game coaching and player development are still suspect.

The obvious exception is Markowski, who has ascended this year from a key sub to the clear choice for B1G Frosh of the Year and probable All-B1G recognition.  She may be the only player who has played consistently well since the start of the new year.  But has she really been coached up, or was she always this good and just needed playing time and confidence?  

So who's grand kid is yours?

 

[HUD]

1 hour ago, Gamafn said:

But has she really been coached up, or was she always this good and just needed playing time and confidence?  

  

 

All I know is without Alexis we would likely have several more losses and if she would have played more at Mich. St.  we would have had a win rather then a 3 point loss.  In 11 minutes of playing time she had 11 points and 6 rebounds.  Issie and Bella playing a combined 48 minutes had a total of 12 points and 3 rebounds.  Alexis had a total of 2 fouls for that game.  So I think she just needed more playing time which she got in the next game.  She has game to game consistency which is crucial.  Wait until she has a year under her belt and has played all the Big ten teams.

 

 

[huskerfrank]

3 hours ago, Gamafn said:

This team’s player development is an enigma.  The team is better than last year because of impressive team culture and additions to the roster, especially Markowski, Shelley and Weidner.  But none of the returning players has gotten significantly better, and several have seemingly regressed.  And Jaz’s performance trajectory during the year has also pretty clearly been uneven at best after showing elite promise early (yes I know the competition has increased). This seems to be a pattern with Williams-coached teams, e.g., Cain, Whitish.  Kudos to the coaching staff for some solid recruiting and team culture development, but Xs and Os, in-game coaching and player development are still suspect.

The obvious exception is Markowski, who has ascended this year from a key sub to the clear choice for B1G Frosh of the Year and probable All-B1G recognition.  She may be the only player who has played consistently well since the start of the new year.  But has she really been coached up, or was she always this good and just needed playing time and confidence?  

 

The player development is average because they work to improve the things they already do well rather than on weaknesses, more often than not.  The bigger part of this is that each year the player's roles change. Issie is not a worse rebounder, but she is getting less rebounds because she is playing less, down about 8 minutes from last year, and now Jazz and Markowski are getting them.  Sam went to the hoop a ton more last year because she was the primary ball handler, now that role is shared with Jazz.  Sam's points are down almost 7 per game.  Sam, Issie, Kate, Whitish, etc. are not getting worse as they get older, it is just that the roles change each year with the new players who come in.  When Mendelson arrives, Alexis will have to adjust some too. Happens to everybody.  Coley sacrificed her entire season to be the 5th big this year. Her role has to change, as she will almost certainly move back to perimeter next year and her numbers will greatly improve even though she will be pretty close to the player she is right now.           

[Gamafn]

10 hours ago, huskerfrank said:

 

The player development is average because they work to improve the things they already do well rather than on weaknesses, more often than not.  The bigger part of this is that each year the player's roles change. Issie is not a worse rebounder, but she is getting less rebounds because she is playing less, down about 8 minutes from last year, and now Jazz and Markowski are getting them.  Sam went to the hoop a ton more last year because she was the primary ball handler, now that role is shared with Jazz.  Sam's points are down almost 7 per game.  Sam, Issie, Kate, Whitish, etc. are not getting worse as they get older, it is just that the roles change each year with the new players who come in.  When Mendelson arrives, Alexis will have to adjust some too. Happens to everybody.  Coley sacrificed her entire season to be the 5th big this year. Her role has to change, as she will almost certainly move back to perimeter next year and her numbers will greatly improve even though she will be pretty close to the player she is right now.           

My point was that players aren’t developing, I.e. getting BETTER, and maybe in a few cases are actually getting worse.  Roles do change, especially with so much new blood, but the data clearly support my conclusion.  Cain’s role, for example, didn’t fundamentally change in four years, yet she flatlined at roughly 10/7/3 for her entire career.  Markowski’s already better except for blocks.  
It’s easy to convert stats to ‘per-40 minutes’ to test the hypothesis.  For example Sam’s points per 40 has dropped slightly from last year (16.8 to 16.0) while her 3-pt % has dropped substantially (37% to 24%).  Issie’s points per 40 are basically flat from last year (17.9 to 18.2) while her rebounds per 40 are down notably (9.84 to 8.36).

The keys for the future are Markowski and Weidner.  Markowski could be an all-American and Weidner all-B1G with proper development, and if that happens this team will make some serious noise in future Marches.  But recent history does not provide a basis for optimism.