The Isaac Copeland watch

[nustudent]

1 hour ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Fair point. But I still think Copeland was worth the risk even if we lost Morrow and Jacobson as a result. Having watched Jacobson and Morrow for two seasons at Nebraska, I feel pretty confident that neither would be any more than a role player for a good team.  Copeland, on the other hand, has the ability to be a star for a good team. 

I'm not complaining about taking him...but having him for 2/3 a season may very well not end up being a net gain this year.   Agree Jacobson was a role guy.   I think Morrow, provided good health, was a well above average player and could have been a strong contributor on quality teams.

[nustudent]

1 hour ago, 49r said:

 

My point is, if a third of a season of Copeland is going to be the difference between postseason or not, then we probably didn't deserve the postseason anyway.  Teams that make the postseason are able to withstand these kind of roster hits...they have to because it usually happens.

 

Being so one dimensional is exactly the kind of thing that killed our chances the past three years.  We HAVE to be better than just one guy.

I understand the point.  I just don't think it is fair. And again...that's from an overall viewpoint, not just this Husker specific team.   If you take what is arguably the best player off of most teams for 1/3 of the season, they are all likely to suffer.   And in this case where the difference between post season and non can be as little as 2-3 games...that loss can have impact.   You can say this about virtually every team.   There are 20-30 teams every year in this same boat.

 

If we are going to be legitimately good, it will be because we have more than just Copeland.   But his absence for 33% of the season can make or break the difference.   If he's as good as advertised, he can elevate other player's games as well.  

[huskerbaseball13]

22 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

from what i heard, it's not likely he'll be eligible to start the season.

If true, I hope the administration/staff does not use Copeland not being eligible as an excuse if this year turns out like the last three. Not their fault he wouldn't be eligible...but they certainly had a say in utilizing our open scholarships. 

[Chuck Taylor]

If we don't squeeze every drop of juice out of this roster, then Miles will be gone and Copeland's fifth year of eligibility won't matter. He'll take his talents elsewhere. IDK if his arrival led to Ed and MJ leaving, kind of irrelevant at this point, but I do know that his missing a third of the season is a major, major problem. This is a generally inexperienced roster, and this is a guy who we absolutely know can score at this level. Glynn is the only other player on the roster you can say that about. 

[nustudent]

50 minutes ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

If true, I hope the administration/staff does not use Copeland not being eligible as an excuse if this year turns out like the last three. Not their fault he wouldn't be eligible...but they certainly had a say in utilizing our open scholarships. 

Bingo

[FredsSlacks]

basically hearing the ncaa doesn't think an injury should allow him to play at a new school earlier than a healthy player that transfers.

Edited August 3, 2017 by TimSmiles

[nustudent]

1 hour ago, TimSmiles said:

basically hearing the ncaa doesn't think an injury should allow him to play at a new school earlier than a healthy player that transfers.

While they are correct it shouldn't....the fact that had he not transferred, he'd still have two full years left...he shouldn't be penalized since he would've been able to take the redshirt.

[colhusker]

We should have had him change his last name to Gibbs

Edited August 3, 2017 by colhusker

[Norm Peterson]

3 hours ago, huskerbaseball13 said:

If true, I hope the administration/staff does not use Copeland not being eligible as an excuse if this year turns out like the last three. Not their fault he wouldn't be eligible...but they certainly had a say in utilizing our open scholarships. 

 

Oh good grief.  Seriously?  The season is still 3 months away and you're already anticipating not only excuses but that we'll need excuses.

 

Most of the rest of us don't think we'll need any excuses.  And certainly aren't looking at Copeland as being one.

 

Do the rest of us a favor and save this until at least February, OK?

[Norm Peterson]

40 minutes ago, nustudent said:

While they are correct it shouldn't....the fact that had he not transferred, he'd still have two full years left...he shouldn't be penalized since he would've been able to take the redshirt.

 

Exactly so.

[huskerbaseball13]

38 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

 

Oh good grief.  Seriously?  The season is still 3 months away and you're already anticipating not only excuses but that we'll need excuses.

 

Most of the rest of us don't think we'll need any excuses.  And certainly aren't looking at Copeland as being one.

 

Do the rest of us a favor and save this until at least February, OK?

Read it again. I said if this year turns out like the previous three.  I'm not anticipating anything. I have no idea what to expect with this team.  If Copeland is out for the non con, having 10 eligible scholarship players with two being true freshman is not ideal but not something that has to cripple the team if we can get solid minutes out of someone like Akenten. 

[Norm Peterson]

No, you're already anticipating that we might need some excuses and trying to preempt Copeland being one of them.

 

Let's let a little bit of the season play out before we decide whether there would even be a need for excuses let alone what those excuses might be.

[FredsSlacks]

5 hours ago, nustudent said:

While they are correct it shouldn't....the fact that had he not transferred, he'd still have two full years left...he shouldn't be penalized since he would've been able to take the redshirt.

yes, but he did transfer and a whole new set of rules apply once you transfer from a school.

 

obviously the transfer rules are ridiculous, but that's how it is.

Edited August 3, 2017 by TimSmiles

[Huskerpapa]

Listened to the Ticket this morning while driving into the office.  Sip made it sound that things do not look good for Copeland...although it is not yet a done deal.  I guess I am willing to wait upon the official word.

[ajb5856]

4 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

yes, but he did transfer and a whole new set of rules apply once you transfer from a school.

 

obviously the transfer rules are ridiculous, but that's how it is.

Isn't part of the argument that he played injured for the 7 games or whatever, they knew he was injured, and Georgetown played him anyway? Possibly against his own judgement? I mean, not that a kid wouldn't want to play but had he known he would eventually hang it up for the year and lose that year of eligibility maybe he would've decided to get healthy instead?

 

i know Washut is connected and has a good idea of what's going on. But can someone explain how he knows things aren't looking good when there's been no movement with this for a long time? From the outside it looks as if things stand right where they have with nothing submitted yet. At one point, the staff thought this would be a done deal once the appeal was submitted. The appeal still isn't submitted. So if things truly aren't looking good it's because the staff suddenly has reason to believe that they don't have a good case. Their comments are all still that they are waiting for paperwork from different people so that the appeal can be submitted. Something doesn't line up because they are talking like there is still hope but if Washut's sentiment is to be believed then theY have received some word that this isn't going to work.

[hhcmatt]

49 minutes ago, ajb5856 said:

But can someone explain how he knows things aren't looking good when there's been no movement with this for a long time?

 

1 hour ago, ajb5856 said:

At one point, the staff thought this would be a done deal once the appeal was submitted. The appeal still isn't submitted.

 

This sort of answers your question. If this was as a 'done-deal', shouldn't it be done by now? It seems to me Nebraska would be highly motivated to get Copeland eligible as soon as possible.  Heck, even getting an answer of him not being eligible as soon as possible would give us some time to add another player if we thought it was necessary.  

 

It would make sense to submit the paperwork to the ASAP. Why haven't we?  We think we need some medical paperwork for our argument. Copeland transferred in January; he had his surgery in February.  A line from Leebo yesterday "Miles said the paperwork trail involves the Copeland family and the NCAA."  Wouldn't Copeland's family also be highly motivated to get him eligible right away?  What specific (or even general) type of paperwork are we exactly waiting on? It wouldn't take 5+ months to replace some paperwork because your dog ate it.

 

Is the problem that we have to prove that Georgetown played Copeland knowing he was injured and that in doing so we open up Georgetown to some sort of liability?

 

 

 

Here is the audio from this morning

 

Silver lining: Another report that the Copeland's back seems to be responding well.

[Norm Peterson]

6 hours ago, TimSmiles said:

yes, but he did transfer and a whole new set of rules apply once you transfer from a school.

 

obviously the transfer rules are ridiculous, but that's how it is.

 

I'm just going to take a flyer and guess that when he decided to leave G'town and when we recruited him, both parties assumed that the NCAA transfer rules would be interpreted in a logical manner such that if the kid got the year back for being hurt and meeting all the elements of a medical hardship, then he should get that year back whether he remains at G'town or transfers.  That just makes logical sense.

 

But logic and the NCAA are like ships that pass in the night without noticing each other.

 

And, like I've said before, the rule is what it is.  He either gets it or he doesn't.  And whether it happens or doesn't was something that was a fait accompli the moment Copeland decided to leave G'town after playing in a few games. 

 

In other words, the kid didn't eff anything up by missing some deadline to file paperwork; more importantly, we didn't eff anything up, either.  The situation was what it was long before we got involved.

[TourneyBound]

so lets say he isn't eligible right away does he have to wait until 2nd semester to start or will it be in December sometime that he is eligible..????

[Norm Peterson]

1 minute ago, ConkintheCorner said:

so lets say he isn't eligible right away does he have to wait until 2nd semester to start or will it be in December sometime that he is eligible..????

He's eligible, at worst, for the KU game the night after graduation ceremonies for the fall semester.

[dustystehl]

Just now, ConkintheCorner said:

so lets say he isn't eligible right away does he have to wait until 2nd semester to start or will it be in December sometime that he is eligible..????

 

He would be eligible as soon as the first semester ends. So he would be eligible for the Kansas game on December 16th.

[TourneyBound]

 

2 minutes ago, dustystehl said:

 

He would be eligible as soon as the first semester ends. So he would be eligible for the Kansas game on December 16th.

 

2 minutes ago, Norm Peterson said:

He's eligible, at worst, for the KU game the night after graduation ceremonies for the fall semester.

 

Well that's a lot better than Jan. 1st

[hskr4life]

We have two... highly touted transfers... coming off of major injuries.

 

One of them is being looked at as a 10th-13th, bench warming, spot minute guy.

 

The other is being looked at as possibly making or breaking our season because he might have to sit 1/3 of the years games.

 

Why the difference in opinion in the two?  Why do we automatically assume that if Copeland plays right away, his injury doesn't impact his performance for a bit like Gill?  Why do we assume that Gill won't contribute right away?  I realize that they are two different injuries, but I'm interested in hearing what people have to say.

[nustudent]

5 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

We have two... highly touted transfers... coming off of major injuries.

 

One of them is being looked at as a 10th-13th, bench warming, spot minute guy.

 

The other is being looked at as possibly making or breaking our season because he might have to sit 1/3 of the years games.

 

Why the difference in opinion in the two?  Why do we automatically assume that if Copeland plays right away, his injury doesn't impact his performance for a bit like Gill?  Why do we assume that Gill won't contribute right away?  I realize that they are two different injuries, but I'm interested in hearing what people have to say.

Gill has never proven to be an elite college player.    Copeland averaged double figures as a sophomore.   Copelands also further along in his recovery.   There are also more capable replacements for Gill then there are for Copeland.  

[uneblinstu]

Well, part of that is that we've seen Copeland be a significant contributor at a high major school. He's never been a dominant player, but when he's been healthy, he's been a very good player. But Gill, we've never seen that and he had an injury where often players don't come back better or as good as they were before the injury, not to mention that it's his second major injury. We've also got a lot of (presumed) depth at Gill's position.

[Norm Peterson]

20 minutes ago, nustudent said:

Gill has never proven to be an elite college player.    Copeland averaged double figures as a sophomore.   Copelands also further along in his recovery.   There are also more capable replacements for Gill then there are for Copeland.  

 

That pretty well covers it.