Support for Yvan

[GoBigRed]

I won't bash on Yvan's finishing around the rim but I think it's worth looking at the +/- from the first 3 games:

 

Mayen +68

Banton +60

McGowens +57

Allen +46

Thor +37

Webster +28

Yvan +9

Stevenson +8

 

Our two "bigs" being in the game so far has caused us the most problems. They don't need to bring scoring to the game because we have enough of that elsewhere but if you value +/- even a little bit then this is not a great sign, considering as a team we are +66.

Edited November 30, 2020 by GoBigFred

[Keenan9595]

30 minutes ago, coughunter said:

I'm saying for the time being they will have to work, but ultimately they are for lack of a better term, is what is not making this team really good.  Yvan is not a shooter and his missed bunnies and free throws could be a liability down the road if he doesnt improve.  Thor is serviceable and a great role player but not sure he deserves to start.  Hopefully with only 8 players they can grow and be more effective with the more talented players.

I mean, every guy on this trams this year has missed bunny layups and dunks so I’m not sure how much of an argument that is.  And it’s pretty obvious that Thor deserves to start if he has 3 straight games of bing in the starting 5.  They have their depth chart and it’s pretty obvious why the 5 starting are the starters.  Best ball movement, most disruptive defensively, and best off the ball movement happen with these 5.  Kobe comes in to run and shoot 3’s and I’m not really sure what Stevenson’s role is, but he’s getting us around 6 points a game which I can live with.  But you can definitely tell how well Fred’s system is run between the starting 5 and the when the guys off the bench come on and it’s pretty obvious to me. The eye test is pretty clear to me why Thor starts and Yvan is going to get minutes.  

[basketballjones]

12 hours ago, coughunter said:

This team is way more athletic and talented overall then last year.  Unfortunately there isnt enough quality talent right now but its gonna get better.  I hate to say it but Yvan and Thor right now are liabilities for what this team could become and have to play.  Thor probably shouldnt get as much mins as well as Yvan but right now there arent other options.  Would like to see more productivity for the mins they get. Its early and hopefully things will click for these 2

Agree on Yvan, actually disagree on Thor. Thor is the perfect compliment to the guys we have right now, to be honest. 

Deleted section on Yvan. 
EDIT:  I want to apologize to Norm, as this wasn't the intention of his post

Edited November 30, 2020 by basketballjones

[hskr4life]

21 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

Agree on Yvan, actually disagree on Thor. Thor is the perfect compliment to the guys we have right now, to be honest. 

Deleted section on Yvan. 
EDIT:  I want to apologize to Norm, as this wasn't the intention of his post

 

Thor is our highest IQ guy.  His passing is amazing!  He doesn't try to force.  Thor is the perfect 5th man in our starting 5.

[49r]

39 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

Thor is our highest IQ guy.  His passing is amazing!  He doesn't try to force.  Thor is the perfect 5th man in our starting 5.

 

Hey, take it to the Support for Thor thread!  This thread is for Yvan support only!!!

[49r]

I did see today that Yvan is ranked #44 in the country on KenPom for Offensive rebounding!  WTG big fella!!!

 

 

 

Stats include games against D-I teams through Sunday, November 29
1540 players eligible for national rank. (924 in eFG%, TS%, and FTRate.)

		Ht	Wt	Yr	G	S	%Min	ORtg	%Poss	%Shots	eFG%	TS%	OR%	DR%	ARate	TORate	Blk%	Stl%	FC/40	FD/40	FTRate	FTM-A	Pct	2PM-A	Pct	3PM-A	Pct
24	Yvan Ouedraogo National Rank	6-9	245	So	3		47.5	87.9	21.6	19.2	27.8	33.0	17.9 44	10.2	2.9	8.8 289	2.0 478	2.8 414	4.9	5.7 228	55.6	5-10	.500	5-18	.278	0-0	.000

[49r]

Here is the comparison between this year and last year:

 

 

 

Yvan Ouedraogo
24 · Bordeaux, France · 3-22-02

		Ht	Wt	Yr	G	%Min	ORtg	%Poss	%Shots	eFG%	TS%	OR%	DR%	ARate	TORate	Blk%	Stl%	FC/40	FD/40	FTRate	FTM-A	Pct	2PM-A	Pct	3PM-A	Pct
2021 C	104 Nebraska  National Rank	6-9	245	So	3	47.5	87.9	21.6	19.2	27.8	33.0	17.9 44	10.2	2.9	8.8 289	2.0 478	2.8 414	4.9	5.7 228	55.6	5-10	.500	5-18	.278	0-0	.000
	vs. Tier A+B*				0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0-0	.000	0-0	.000	0-0	.000
	vs. Tier A*				0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0.0	0-0	.000	0-0	.000	0-0	.000
2020 C	162 Nebraska  National Rank	6-9	260	Fr	32	52.3	85.9	19.8	16.0	41.7	43.3	13.0 45	17.2 493	4.2	19.6	1.3	1.1	3.0	4.1	51.2	41-86	.477	70-168	.417	0-0	.000
	Conference-only Conference Rank				20	55.1	88.1	18.7	15.2	43.4	44.5	13.2 3	17.4 19	3.9	19.2	1.2	1.0	3.2	3.7	46.2	23-49	.469	46-106	.434	0-0	.000
	vs. Tier A+B*				22	51.8	79.1	18.4	15.2	39.1	41.4	11.8	16.2	4.2	20.8	0.9	0.8	3.2	3.6	43.6	24-48	.500	43-110	.391	0-0	.000
	vs. Tier A*				16	52.4	73.6	19.7	15.4	36.1	39.3	13.5	14.5	3.9	22.0	1.2	0.8	3.3	4.1	50.6	21-42	.500	30-83	.361	0-0	.000
	Age: 17.8 (-1.6)					Similar: Jarnell Stokes '12 (851), Jeremiah Kreisberg '11 (850), Lennard Freeman '14 (842), Dakari Johnson '14 (839), Bruce Beckford '13 (830), More...
	Career				35																46-96	.479	75-186	.403	0-0	.000
	vs. Tier A+B*				22																24-48	.500	43-110	.391	0-0	.000
	vs. Tier A*				16																21-42	.500	30-83	.361	0-0	.000

Edited November 30, 2020 by 49r

[hhcmatt]

[Nebrasketball1979]

When I first saw this thread topic, I was expecting to see a go fund me link.  I'm relieved there is no awful tragedy (besides a cure for stone hands) that Yvan needs help with.

[AuroranHusker]

I did notice that Yvan kicked it out in the last ballgame, after Coach Hoiberg had specifically mentioned that in his presser from earlier in the Golden Window Classic. So, good thing is we know Drago is coachable. And that's a big part of the learning curve.

 

 

Edited November 30, 2020 by AuroranHusker

[BannedAccount]

On 11/30/2020 at 9:42 AM, Keenan9595 said:

I mean, every guy on this trams this year has missed bunny layups and dunks so I’m not sure how much of an argument that is.  And it’s pretty obvious that Thor deserves to start if he has 3 straight games of bing in the starting 5.  They have their depth chart and it’s pretty obvious why the 5 starting are the starters.  Best ball movement, most disruptive defensively, and best off the ball movement happen with these 5.  Kobe comes in to run and shoot 3’s and I’m not really sure what Stevenson’s role is, but he’s getting us around 6 points a game which I can live with.  But you can definitely tell how well Fred’s system is run between the starting 5 and the when the guys off the bench come on and it’s pretty obvious to me. The eye test is pretty clear to me why Thor starts and Yvan is going to get minutes.  

I just dont see Thors value starting.  We'll agree to disagree but you need to have some sort of scoring threat from him which he hasnt shown yet.  Not sure what the eye test is

[hskr4life]

6 minutes ago, coughunter said:

I just dont see Thors value starting.  We'll agree to disagree but you need to have some sort of scoring threat from him which he hasnt shown yet.  Not sure what the eye test is

 

We have plenty of scoring threats when Thor is out there to start.  He doesn't need to score, score, score.  He has shown that he can shoot and drive just well enough to merit attention.

[BannedAccount]

48 minutes ago, hskr4life said:

 

We have plenty of scoring threats when Thor is out there to start.  He doesn't need to score, score, score.  He has shown that he can shoot and drive just well enough to merit attention.

Not asking to score a ton but contribute something on the offensive end.  6-8 pts a game isnt asking much on a team that wants to score a lot.  I dont see fear in teams for him.  Again my original point is these 2 are what is keeping this team from being decent to really good.  Not slamming the players just saying where this team needs to go moving forward

[Huskerpapa]

I find it difficult to criticize Thor.  There will be games where we need him to score, and he has proven he can do so.  There is a reason he is out there...simply listen to the actual coaches...and his teammates 

[Keenan9595]

53 minutes ago, coughunter said:

Not asking to score a ton but contribute something on the offensive end.  6-8 pts a game isnt asking much on a team that wants to score a lot.  I dont see fear in teams for him.  Again my original point is these 2 are what is keeping this team from being decent to really good.  Not slamming the players just saying where this team needs to go moving forward

I mean the announcers today even talked about how good of a rebounding and defensive player Yvan is and how he has already cut his teeth on better big 10 competition.  We know nothing of our other bigs on this team and both of them won’t play until conference play, it makes no sense to say he is making us worse when he’s the only guy proven to hang down low.  Thor is a facilitator who gets other guys buckets, through his passing, defense, and off the ball movement, every good team has a guy like that who helps open up the scorers to do just that.  His shot isn’t where it was at last year at the moment but he shoots and drives well enough to get points of his own.  If we are going to nit pick these guys so hard how can we not look at other obvious player flaws trey and teddy getting into foul trouble and having far to many charges called against them.  Does lat mayen give us anything if the 3 ball isn’t falling?  I also think and it’s shown so far that Kobe and shamiel are going to be more valuable and efficient off the bench then starting.  So far the eye test is showing us what this team wants to be and how good they can be when the offense is clicking, we are running after playing good D and the shots are falling.

Edited December 2, 2020 by Keenan9595

[Keenan9595]

1 hour ago, coughunter said:

Not asking to score a ton but contribute something on the offensive end.  6-8 pts a game isnt asking much on a team that wants to score a lot.  I dont see fear in teams for him.  Again my original point is these 2 are what is keeping this team from being decent to really good.  Not slamming the players just saying where this team needs to go moving forward

He averaged 9 points a game last year...so by your own logic teams don’t just fear him they worship him...like some sort of mythological god?  

[BannedAccount]

19 minutes ago, Keenan9595 said:

I mean the announcers today even talked about how good of a rebounding and defensive player Yvan is and how he has already cut his teeth on better big 10 competition.  We know nothing of our other bigs on this team and both of them won’t play until conference play, it makes no sense to say he is making us worse when he’s the only guy proven to hang down low.  Thor is a facilitator who gets other guys buckets, through his passing, defense, and off the ball movement, every good team has a guy like that who helps open up the scorers to do just that.  His shot isn’t where it was at last year at the moment but he shoots and drives well enough to get points of his own.  If we are going to nit pick these guys so hard how can we not look at other obvious player flaws trey and teddy getting into foul trouble and having far to many charges called against them.  Does lat mayen give us anything if the 3 ball isn’t falling?  I also think and it’s shown so far that Kobe and shamiel are going to be more valuable and efficient off the bench then starting.  So far the eye test is showing us what this team wants to be and how good they can be when the offense is clicking, we are running after playing good D and the shots are falling.

Again not what i said.  Said these are 2 players in a 8 man rotation right now that are good but in the long run will need improvement to be great.  Thors shot or lack of shot is concerning as well as other stats for playing 28 mins a game.  I get that he doesnt need to do much but the next step for this team to take a leap is improve play from from these 2 spots.  Im curious what Walker can or could bring

[BannedAccount]

1 minute ago, Keenan9595 said:

He averaged 9 points a game last year...so by your own logic teams don’t just fear him they worship him...like some sort of mythological god?  

Last years team talent wise was night and day to this years

[Keenan9595]

15 minutes ago, coughunter said:

Last years team talent wise was night and day to this years

Agreed, the difference was last year Thor had to be a go to scorer, because we didn’t have any other consistent scorers from week to week.  This year he is being asked to be a facilitator and create off the ball chances for his teammates, you can tell his role has changed, he doesn’t need to be on the stat sheet much to improve this team.  That’s what I’ve been getting at.  A perfect example is his assist to banton on the break vs. Nevada, he could have gone up with it himself but he makes a smart one touch pass back for the bigger percentage shot and gets an assist.  We don’t have another guy at this moment making those types of decisions.  You just have to have that to make the pure scorers around you more efficient. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Keenan9595

[Keenan9595]

11 minutes ago, coughunter said:

Again not what i said.  Said these are 2 players in a 8 man rotation right now that are good but in the long run will need improvement to be great.  Thors shot or lack of shot is concerning as well as other stats for playing 28 mins a game.  I get that he doesnt need to do much but the next step for this team to take a leap is improve play from from these 2 spots.  Im curious what Walker can or could bring

I guess a definition of good and great is needed.  They are both doing their jobs well and allowing the team to do its thing.  And I’m also curious about Walker, but it’s a little concerning we aren’t going to have him until halfway through conference play.  I really think this team will start to take off once we can get lat out of the 5 and have him focus mainly on setting his feet and shooting. 

[REDitus]

I think Yvan had a solid game tonight.   Got some blocks, a decent number of rebounds and kicked it out one time which was a good decision.  Hustled well on D.   No turnovers and only 2 fouls in 18 minutes.   That's a pretty clean game.  1 for 1 is efficient   

Edited December 2, 2020 by REDitus

[Fullbacksympathy]

1 hour ago, REDitus said:

I think Yvan had a solid game tonight.   Got some blocks, a decent number of rebounds and kicked it out one time which was a good decision.  Hustled well on D.   No turnovers and only 2 fouls in 18 minutes.   That's a pretty clean game.  1 for 1 is efficient   

Agree.  I really liked his controlled contribution.  He’s an excellent defender—hedges very well.  His finish at the rim in the first half was his best non-dunk finish of his career.  It was perfect.  

 

He’s going to figure out his role in our program.  He’s works too hard not to right the ship.  

Edited December 2, 2020 by LK1

[REDitus]

9 minutes ago, LK1 said:

 He’s an excellent defender—hedges very well. ...............    He’s works too hard not to right the ship.  

2 excellent points.  The hedging -  At first I thought he was getting lost but then realized the plan was to double certain players at certain times and let some players go if they weren't in the paint.   Like you said he worked hard getting to the double and off it.   That hustle is something I appreciate.     McGowens is another player that really hustles on defense.  I love that. 

[Norm Peterson]

1 hour ago, REDitus said:

2 excellent points.  The hedging -  At first I thought he was getting lost but then realized the plan was to double certain players at certain times and let some players go if they weren't in the paint.   Like you said he worked hard getting to the double and off it.   That hustle is something I appreciate.     McGowens is another player that really hustles on defense.  I love that. 

 

Yvan does a good job on the hedge. It's his recovery from the hedge that's the problem. He tends to struggle to find his assignment and gets in the way of other players trying to get back to where he's supposed to be. But he's getting better.

[Jacob Padilla]

Fred on Thor during Sports Nightly on Wednesday:

 

Quote

“Thor’s doing everything except knocking down shots right now. He’s always a guy that you can rely on, he’s always in the right spot, you see he’s in a stance, he’s talking out there, executing our coverages, making simple plays. It’s just a matter of time. He’s too good of a shooter for his percentages to stay where they are. I had a good talk with him today and told him to keep his confidence and continue to look for his shot … Going back and watching and I worked with him a couple days before the game, he’s just falling out of his shot to the right a little bit, and that’s kind of the human nature when you’re struggling a little bit is to reach for that rim as opposed to finishing high on your shot … I’m not worried at all. Thor’s going to knock down his shots, he’s going to continue to make good, solid, simple plays and he’ll be a big factor for us this season.”

 

As for Yvan, I asked Fred about him after the game because I thought that was his best performance of the season by far even if he only scored two points. Fred agreed, though I haven't transcribed his answer yet.

 

+/- has its flaws, but in this case I think it demonstrates what we all saw: Nebraska was worse with Yvan on the floor. He was -15 against Nevada and -7 against NDSU. Against South Dakota, he was +15. He didn't try to do too much offensively and he rebounded better than he has on the defensive end of the floor. The two blocks were really nice as well.