Observations from Nebraska State Tournament

[basketballjones]

Board members who observed the most beautiful thing the state of Nebraska offers - what were your thoughts?

I'll go first!

Players:

• A. Arop is the real deal. Love his game. Beautiful stroke, long, athletic enough, adds an element we don't have in a beautiful midrange game. Plays hard, great teammate. Will need a year or so to adjust to actually playing help defense and gap/pack principles. Concerns - health. I don't know why, maybe because of his injury, but he just looks like he has bad knees. Hope I'm wrong.

• Ed Chang, please come to Nebraska. Something about that shooting stroke and ball skills at his height make me think he could be special. Along with Arop, needs a professional to work with him in the off season on lower body development. Those super long, tall dudes can develop knee problems if they don't develop a love for the weight room and body development.

• David Wingett- you guys know my stances on Nebraksa kids. Take a chance on them before taking a chance on someone else. Thoughts from the board - what is holding us back? Grades? Anything else? He's a lefty who can dribble, shoot from anywhere (it's developing), and he's athletic enough. Much like Arop/Chang - needs some serious weight room development. But he's a legit 6'7", 6'8".

• Caleal Walker - grades are the issue I believe. Will have to go to a JUCO. Can he go to a prep academy? Like Khyri Thomas? Needs some work on his stroke, but his athleticism and instincts are incredible. I'd be developing a relationship with the young man and just seeing where it goes. Maybe he turns out to be a player? You never know...

The basketball

I hate zone. Nebraska needs the shot clock. Although the shot clock might encourage more teams to play zone. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Elmwood-Murdock put on a fundamental offensive clinic vs Winnebago at the Devaney. Beautiful to watch.

That's all I have for now.

[khoock]

Winnebago has refused to release Wingetts transcript last I heard. That is what is holding him back from better offers.

[hskr4life]

Just curious as to what would be the purpose of this?  Is it a tribal thing?

[basketballjones]

Just curious as to what would be the purpose of this? Is it a tribal thing?

I had not heard this before I posted this question. However, I THINK I could tell you exactly what's going on because I've dealt with this situation before. But I'm not going to speculate or accuse anything here. Wait and see, I suppose....

[khoock]

Just read under Wingetts recruiting thread that the school recently released his transcript.

[khoock]

Board members who observed the most beautiful thing the state of Nebraska offers - what were your thoughts?

I'll go first!

Players:

• A. Arop is the real deal. Love his game. Beautiful stroke, long, athletic enough, adds an element we don't have in a beautiful midrange game. Plays hard, great teammate. Will need a year or so to adjust to actually playing help defense and gap/pack principles. Concerns - health. I don't know why, maybe because of his injury, but he just looks like he has bad knees. Hope I'm wrong.

• Ed Chang, please come to Nebraska. Something about that shooting stroke and ball skills at his height make me think he could be special. Along with Arop, needs a professional to work with him in the off season on lower body development. Those super long, tall dudes can develop knee problems if they don't develop a love for the weight room and body development.

• David Wingett- you guys know my stances on Nebraksa kids. Take a chance on them before taking a chance on someone else. Thoughts from the board - what is holding us back? Grades? Anything else? He's a lefty who can dribble, shoot from anywhere (it's developing), and he's athletic enough. Much like Arop/Chang - needs some serious weight room development. But he's a legit 6'7", 6'8".

• Caleal Walker - grades are the issue I believe. Will have to go to a JUCO. Can he go to a prep academy? Like Khyri Thomas? Needs some work on his stroke, but his athleticism and instincts are incredible. I'd be developing a relationship with the young man and just seeing where it goes. Maybe he turns out to be a player? You never know...

The basketball

I hate zone. Nebraska needs the shot clock. Although the shot clock might encourage more teams to play zone. So I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. Elmwood-Murdock put on a fundamental offensive clinic vs Winnebago at the Devaney. Beautiful to watch.

That's all I have for now.

Did you see all of the Class A games? If so, what were your thoughts on Central's Isaiah Chandler and Norfolks Logan Stromm. Both are 6'9 bigs generating D1 interest.

[HB]

Couldn't disagree more with Jones on Arop.  A great stroke?  Really?  Midrange game?  As of now, this guy can't shoot.  Or handle it.  He's Kyle Marks.  Athletic guy who is too small to play the 4, and doesn't have the skills to play the wing.  At the highest levels they won't let him get to the rim, so he better develop a shot.  A huge project to develop a game to go with the length and athleticism.  I'm hoping we're getting past the need to do that here.   Having said all of that, Jones has forgotten more about hoops than I'll ever know, but that is really what I saw this week. 

[basketballjones]

Just read under Wingetts recruiting thread that the school recently released his transcript.

Ah, cool. Good. Or not good?

[basketballjones]

Jones has forgotten more about hoops than I'll ever know, but that is really what I saw this week.

Trust me when I say I have not earned that compliment yet. And your observations are just as worthwhile as mine.

Couldn't disagree more with Jones on Arop. A great stroke? Really? Midrange game? As of now, this guy can't shoot. Or handle it. He's Kyle Marks. Athletic guy who is too small to play the 4, and doesn't have the skills

What game did you watch? Serious question. Because he had a poor game against Fremont, where his midrange game did fail him. Comparison to Kyle Marks couldn't be any further off, fwiw. He's a 3 at the next level, and his shot will be just fine, fundamentals are there, handles will be fine. Remember he's just a junior, playing on a team that doesn't necessarily (or at all) work through him or get him shots. They pressure and get steals, then just play dribble drive 5 out on offense. Whoever scores, scores, almost exactly like Central a few years ago (sans a big man). Also sat out all of last year. Is he a 5-star? No, not what I'm saying. But I fully believe assuming things go as plan, he can be a very solid player for us.

[throwback]

Some good points all around on Arop - you have to love the athleticism, so quick and gets his hands on a lot of passes with that long wingspan - he also is so quick off the floor when rebounding, he just beats everyone else to the ball while in the air. When he had that coast to coast drive last night, I think he only needed 7 strides.  He eats up a lot of ground in a hurry. If he were only 6-8...

 

But he's raw on offense. Not sure how much of it was him deferring to a lot of seniors on the team on that end, but he would appear to have work to do on ball handing and shooting skills. Fortunately he has another year to do it, and his coaches say his work ethic is tremendous.

 

 

So tough to project sophomores, but Chang has a lot of potential too. If he lives up to it, he'll have a ton of offers, so it was smart of us to offer him early and start working on that relationship now.

 

I like Wingett, but with Arop already committed for '17, and with only 1 more scholarship available right now, tough to know if he'll get one. If we had 2 more 'ships left, maybe he gets one. Would have to see him against much higher levels of competition than C-2 to form a better opinion. Can he guard players with quickness who match his size?

 

Walker is another tough one - maybe his game fits better at UNO and its offensive style?

 

 

Shot clock is desperately needed in HS. I'm not sure what the right number is, maybe 35 or 40 seconds, but it's needed badly. 

 

It's also getting close to needing to drop back to 4 classes. Maybe they could to go 5 initially, but it's inevitable that we're going to have to shrink at some point.

 

And I wouldn't mind seeing a multiplier for private schools. Not sure how much difference it would make ultimately, but it's probably time to at least try it to try to even the playing field a bit.

 

I also wouldn't mind seeing them stop playing in the high school gyms on Thursday. Just start the tournament on Wednesday, then you play the whole thing at Pinnacle & Devaney. Half the field would start on Wednesday / half would start on Thursday with the Wednesday teams having the day off. Or shrink the number of classes.

 

 

Regardless, the state tournament is always a great weekend, there's nothing quite like it. And this year's junior class has a lot of talent, I'd say the most we've seen in Nebraska in a long time. 

[Norm Peterson]

We discussed shot clocks on here a couple of years ago and I researched (well, not deeply) and found you can get good ones for about $2,000/pair. Then you just need an extra official type person to run them.

[HB]

 

Jones has forgotten more about hoops than I'll ever know, but that is really what I saw this week.

Trust me when I say I have not earned that compliment yet. And your observations are just as worthwhile as mine.

Couldn't disagree more with Jones on Arop. A great stroke? Really? Midrange game? As of now, this guy can't shoot. Or handle it. He's Kyle Marks. Athletic guy who is too small to play the 4, and doesn't have the skills

What game did you watch? Serious question. Because he had a poor game against Fremont, where his midrange game did fail him. Comparison to Kyle Marks couldn't be any further off, fwiw. He's a 3 at the next level, and his shot will be just fine, fundamentals are there, handles will be fine. Remember he's just a junior, playing on a team that doesn't necessarily (or at all) work through him or get him shots. They pressure and get steals, then just play dribble drive 5 out on offense. Whoever scores, scores, almost exactly like Central a few years ago (sans a big man). Also sat out all of last year. Is he a 5-star? No, not what I'm saying. But I fully believe assuming things go as plan, he can be a very solid player for us.

 

 

I was at the game against Papio and the game against Fremont.  I think he was 2-8 from the line against Papio, and the misses were ugly.   Perhaps the fundamentals you see will prevail, but I saw a guy without an outside shot.    So I was hoping he can grow into a 4, cause I didn't see a 3 on offense.  

[Huskerpapa]

A couple of things...I agree whole heartedly about the shot clock.  It simply makes sense.  There should not be an excuse at this point.  The only question is how much time should be given...I would vote for 30 or 35 second.

 

As far as Arop, I was somewhat surprised by what I saw.  He is athletic.  He missed last year.  He is a 6'5" post player.  I did not see any sign that led me to believe he could play the "3" at the next level.  For the Huskers, our current "3" is Andrew White.  I have issues visualizing Arop playing a "3" for us.  Perhaps he has that skill, but it was not showcased this past weekend.

 

Now, if he has a 3 to 5 inch growth spurt still in the works...then he certainly can fit in the 4/5 role. 

 

He does remind you a bit of Kyle Marks, maybe Corey Sims, more athletic than Ross Buckendahl...perhaps, perhaps Larry Florence?

[basketballjones]

And I wouldn't mind seeing a multiplier for private schools. Not sure how much difference it would make ultimately, but it's probably time to at least try it to try to even the playing field a bit.

I also wouldn't mind seeing them stop playing in the high school gyms on Thursday. Just start the tournament on Wednesday, then you play the whole thing at Pinnacle & Devaney.

No on your first point (for selfish personal reasons). I'd rather see something like, if you make it to state two years in a row with "x %" of kids returning you should have to bump up a class. Or if you've made it x times out of so many years you need to bump up.

Been saying your second point for years.... Encourage schools to time their spring break with state basketball so it doesn't interfere with school

[FredsSlacks]

not sold on arop. not really sure what position you play him at in the B1G.

[basketballjones]

not sold on arop. not really sure what position you play him at in the B1G.

Very interesting. Suppose this is why eye witness testimony sucks - two people see different things.

My biggest flaw when it comes to recruiting/projecting - I'm an idealist and see kids for what I think they can be. It's a strength and a weakness. I'll overlook a lot of game weaknesses if I see the stuff I want. Very hard for me to overlook character flaws, however.

[doc1394]

I only got to see the final, but was not very impressed with Arop either. Or South in general. They just threw up bricks and got the rebounds.

I thought the most impressive team was Bishop Neumann. Really well rounded team with some great shooters.

[HB]

Loved the D1 final between Walthill and Winnebago.   Good ball movement and unselfish play by both teams.  Good play in both the post and perimeter.  You could tell it was the 3rd game in 3 days, but all in all good hoops.

[Miles ahead of the rest]

I only got to see the final, but was not very impressed with Arop either. Or South in general. They just threw up bricks and got the rebounds.

I thought the most impressive team was Bishop Neumann. Really well rounded team with some great shooters.

I've said this all year (not on here but just in general) that South is nowhere near the team that people think they are.  They were just much more athletic than any other team this year and they defended their way to a state title.  Their offensive ability is below average in my opinion for as good as people give them credit for.  The people that compared this team all year to the Central teams and calling South the "New Central" are just crazy.  I graduated 2010 and played at the class A level and can say with confidence that the Omaha Central team of that year would beat this South team by double digits and I'm pretty confident in saying that.  

 

I think this South team is very athletic and has a few good defenders on their team, but I was never all that impressed with them throughout this year.

[throwback]

 

And I wouldn't mind seeing a multiplier for private schools. Not sure how much difference it would make ultimately, but it's probably time to at least try it to try to even the playing field a bit.

I also wouldn't mind seeing them stop playing in the high school gyms on Thursday. Just start the tournament on Wednesday, then you play the whole thing at Pinnacle & Devaney.

No on your first point (for selfish personal reasons). I'd rather see something like, if you make it to state two years in a row with "x %" of kids returning you should have to bump up a class. Or if you've made it x times out of so many years you need to bump up.

Been saying your second point for years.... Encourage schools to time their spring break with state basketball so it doesn't interfere with school

 

Ha - yeah I understand not liking the multiplier, it wouldn't be popular, which is why they haven't done it already. It's a tough call for the NSAA. Shot clock shouldn't be. 

 

With Arop, I think his coach said he could guard anywhere from a 2 to a 4 at the college level, and I can see that. (A perimeter oriented 4 more than a, say, Purdue or MSU type 4.) Maybe he's a lock down defensive type player for a year or two till his offensive skills develop who can guard a variety of people. We're certainly going to need one after Webster graduates.

 

In fact, I would maybe think his time at NU could be a little like Webster's. I think Arop could develop into a slasher. He certainly wouldn't seem to have Webster's ball handling skills at this point, but Webster's jumper was a mess when he arrived. I believe the NU coaches had to completely reconfigure it (I could be wrong on that). But Webster got on the floor after he decided to dedicate to defense. And this year as a junior he found his offense, while his defense remains strong.

 

Arop has more leaping ability than Webster and a longer wing span, so maybe he's that lock down defensive type player at first? It sounds like he has the attitude/work ethic to be someone who would embrace that challenge.

 

And with Arop more than likely being an offensive project when he arrives on campus, and with NU having just 1 scholarship left for '17 at this point, the pressure is really on the coaches to go and find an immediate scorer with that other scholarship.  

[throwback]

Also was curious if anyone saw Platteview Thursday night with 6-10 soph Brady Heiman? I saw him a couple of times mid-season, but was curious what others thought. (And I have no idea whether he's even on NU's radar at this point, other than he's 6-10, so I'm sure they've at least looked at whether he has hair on his legs.)

[atskooc]

 

 

And I wouldn't mind seeing a multiplier for private schools. Not sure how much difference it would make ultimately, but it's probably time to at least try it to try to even the playing field a bit.

I also wouldn't mind seeing them stop playing in the high school gyms on Thursday. Just start the tournament on Wednesday, then you play the whole thing at Pinnacle & Devaney.

No on your first point (for selfish personal reasons). I'd rather see something like, if you make it to state two years in a row with "x %" of kids returning you should have to bump up a class. Or if you've made it x times out of so many years you need to bump up.

Been saying your second point for years.... Encourage schools to time their spring break with state basketball so it doesn't interfere with school

 

Ha - yeah I understand not liking the multiplier, it wouldn't be popular, which is why they haven't done it already. It's a tough call for the NSAA. Shot clock shouldn't be. 

 

With Arop, I think his coach said he could guard anywhere from a 2 to a 4 at the college level, and I can see that. (A perimeter oriented 4 more than a, say, Purdue or MSU type 4.) Maybe he's a lock down defensive type player for a year or two till his offensive skills develop who can guard a variety of people. We're certainly going to need one after Webster graduates.

 

In fact, I would maybe think his time at NU could be a little like Webster's. I think Arop could develop into a slasher. He certainly wouldn't seem to have Webster's ball handling skills at this point, but Webster's jumper was a mess when he arrived. I believe the NU coaches had to completely reconfigure it (I could be wrong on that). But Webster got on the floor after he decided to dedicate to defense. And this year as a junior he found his offense, while his defense remains strong.

 

Arop has more leaping ability than Webster and a longer wing span, so maybe he's that lock down defensive type player at first? It sounds like he has the attitude/work ethic to be someone who would embrace that challenge.

 

And with Arop more than likely being an offensive project when he arrives on campus, and with NU having just 1 scholarship left for '17 at this point, the pressure is really on the coaches to go and find an immediate scorer with that other scholarship.  

 

According to some here, that's awfully impressive.

 

Rumor floating around is that Webby has a near-40-inch vertical, which I've never believed.

[Art Vandalay]

I agree that AA needs a lot of work on his jump shot but I do not agree that it is horrible right now. He has decent form but needs more reps in games. If you watch them what does he take 1-3 jumpers per game? think it was 1 in the finals. He does not get many touches at all unless it is an offensive rebound or lob. His ball handling is not that bad at all either and is normally an excellent finisher. He reminds me of Ade Dagunduro a lot potential wise. He will hopefully play the wing in AAU ball and get to work on his jumper. If he develops even just a decent jumper he will be a good prospect.

 

Someone asked about Strom for Norfolk. He is not 6'9 at least an inch or two smaller than that and not explosive enough to be a high D1 PF. I am a big fan but do not see him at NU unless it is for football which is probably his best sport from what I was told.

 

I really like Wingett as well but we need C and guards who can shoot so not sure where he fits.

[basketballjones]

I only got to see the final, but was not very impressed with Arop either. Or South in general. They just threw up bricks and got the rebounds.

I thought the most impressive team was Bishop Neumann. Really well rounded team with some great shooters.

I've said this all year (not on here but just in general) that South is nowhere near the team that people think they are. They were just much more athletic than any other team this year and they defended their way to a state title. Their offensive ability is below average in my opinion for as good as people give them credit for. The people that compared this team all year to the Central teams and calling South the "New Central" are just crazy. I graduated 2010 and played at the class A level and can say with confidence that the Omaha Central team of that year would beat this South team by double digits and I'm pretty confident in saying that.

I think this South team is very athletic and has a few good defenders on their team, but I was never all that impressed with them throughout this year.

Correct, Akoy's central team beats these guys 7/10 times.

Down year for class A basketball at the top. Teams much closer than normal.

[basketballjones]

He reminds me of Ade Dagunduro a lot potential wise. He will hopefully play the wing in AAU ball and get to work on his jumper.

I really like Wingett as well but we need C and guards who can shoot so not sure where he fits.

Nailed it with Ade comparison. And I'd take a whole team of Ade's. And I can't help but emphasize that South literally does not run "an offense." They're 5-out dribble drive, pass, cut, drive and kick or drive and dump. They're very unselfish and everyone is driving to help out everyone. If AA played for Fremont, per say, they'd run everything through and around him.

I just don't see (without knowing any inside or behind the scenes info) how you pass on Wingett. 6'8" lefties who can go both right and left, with jumpers, and length/athleticism don't grow on trees in your back yard very often.