Why i'd stick with fred.

[cornfed24-7]

10 minutes ago, nustudent said:

But at least the next guy has a better core to start with so the next guy isn’t walking into the same situation Hoiberg did. 

I wouldn't bet the farm on that. I would say the odds are on the next guy walking into the exact situation that Hoiberg did.

[HB]

2 minutes ago, nustudent said:

All I’m saying is if you fire him before these guys get to campus, you’ll never see them.   If you give him a shot next year, maybe he succeeds.  Probably not.  But at least the next guy has a better core to start with so the next guy isn’t walking into the same situation Hoiberg did. 

 
Could be true.  But with the one free transfer these days, I’m not sure you’d have much roster stability next year either.   Trev obviously felt the money savings made this the right thing to do.  We’ll find out soon whether staff changes occur (will be surprised if anyone other than Loenser stays), or if Fred committed to changes his roster construction, recruiting approach, accountability etc.   Frost had to have a detailed plan, and I assume Fred did.  It better be more than a small pay cut and let’s hope a couple guys come back and some recruits can contribute right away.  

[nustudent]

4 minutes ago, cornfed24-7 said:

I wouldn't bet the farm on that. I would say the odds are on the next guy walking into the exact situation that Hoiberg did.

He probably won’t be walking into a good situation.    But I’d rather be inheriting guys like Wilcher, Keita, Briedenbach and the 3 guys we have coming in over guys like Amir Harris, Brady Heimann, Karrington Davis and Thor.  

[cornfed24-7]

Just now, nustudent said:

He probably won’t be walking into a good situation.    But I’d rather be inheriting guys like Wilcher, Keita, Briedenbach and the 3 guys we have coming in over guys like Amir Harris, Brady Heimann, Karrington Davis and Thor.  

You speak like its fact any of these guys will be here if there is a change and I find that silly.

[nustudent]

Just now, HB said:

 
Could be true.  But with the one free transfer these days, I’m not sure you’d have much roster stability next year either.   Trev obviously felt the money savings made this the right thing to do.  We’ll find out soon whether staff changes occur (will be surprised if anyone other than Loenser stays), or if Fred committed to changes his roster construction, recruiting approach, accountability etc.   Frost had to have a detailed plan, and I assume Fred did.  It better be more than a small pay cut and let’s hope a couple guys come back and some recruits can contribute right away.  

I agree tge transfer rule hurts.  But I think it’s easier to try to get one to stay (especially if they are already contributing) then to try to find someone new on short notice.  

[HB]

1 hour ago, hugh42 said:

 

I hope they prove you wrong.

So do I, but I  was on this train wreck early and wasn’t proved wrong. 

[nustudent]

Just now, cornfed24-7 said:

You speak like its fact any of these guys will be here if there is a change and I find that silly.

They are set to be here.  And will have to transfer when they enroll.    If there is a charge, they’d get out of their LOI and still preserve their free transfer.  One is better than the other. 

[cornfed24-7]

Just now, nustudent said:

They are set to be here.  And will have to transfer when they enroll.    If there is a charge, they’d get out of their LOI and still preserve their free transfer.  One is better than the other. 

Nah man semantics. 

[FredsSlacks]

I will just say that I would bet fred takes a very different approach to the offseason and gameplan next year. That can only be a good thing in my opinion. It is hard to imagine us getting any worse next year. there will be some quality transfers that want to come here along with the solid recruiting class. Every starting spot is wide open next year.

Edited February 25, 2022 by FredsSlacks

[royalfan]

10 hours ago, Klas3131 said:

And what do we have now, 3 years into Hoiberg's regime?  3 years, 3 completely different teams, 3 trainwrecks.  It shouldn't look like this in Year 3.  NU has the best player they've ever had in Bryce, and some other good pieces.  And it looks horrible EVERY night.  I don't see it looking better next year.  Bryce is gone.  Other will leave.  Will any of these incoming recruits stick with their commitment?  They see what is happening and Fred is probably gone (if not this year, next year).  The team looks disinterested.  The coaching staff on the sideline looks disinterested (other than Gates at times).  It's criminal that a team with some decent talent is THIS bad.  I watched Minnesota/Wisconsin last night.  It's a miracle NU beat them.  A miracle.  NU is not only 14th out of 14 teams, they are SO FAR away from #13 - ridiculous.  I love Fred the person, but Fred the coach has been a disaster.  

Exactly what I said we have.  An unmitigated disaster.  

[HB]

11 hours ago, FredsSlacks said:

I will just say that I would bet fred takes a very different approach to the offseason and gameplan next year. That can only be a good thing in my opinion. It is hard to imagine us getting any worse next year. there will be some quality transfers that want to come here along with the solid recruiting class. Every starting spot is wide open next year.

Nothing different about next year than the  last 3, other than no credible hope we’ll make the postseason.  Every starting spot has been up each year.  Why would we get quality transfers?  We don’t win any games.  We finish last.  Attendance has been cut in half.   All the sudden we’re gonna try hard?  Not F around in warmups?  Come out hard to guard a 3?   Head coach is going to personally recruit?  Hope Fred can change, but that’s a heck of a leap of faith.  A staff overhaul would help, but I’m  not sure who will want to climb on board this sinking ship.  (Wouldn’t have thought football could have hired who they did, so who knows). 

Edited February 25, 2022 by HB

[royalfan]

2 hours ago, nustudent said:

I'm not saying he's going to win.  I'm just saying making a move next year is much better for the long term picture for Nebraska then making it now.  

 

Odds are we'll move on after next year (though I do think we'll be better than 7-25).  But we just saved ourselves over $8M and added a Top 25-30ish recruiting class to the roster.   

 

While I slightly preferred we moved on, like I said I wan't as adamant about it as most.  You have done a great job laying out the reasons why.  Quality post after quality post in the thread, whether one agrees or not.  

[Ron Mexico]

22 hours ago, nustudent said:

They do need to be coached.  And it's fair to doubt whether we have the staff to do it.  That being said, I also struggle completely disregarding the Iowa State tenure.  He certainly hasn't shown much here.  But I view this as much as year 2 as year 3 because year 1 was going to be a disaster regardless of who was coaching here.   And if ISU was a one and done situation, it'd be easy for me to disregard it as a lightning in the bottle situation.  5 out of 6 years isn't a fluke, in my opinion.  There was something there.   Whether that translates or he can duplicate it, we will see, but unlike most of our failed coaches in football and basketball, he is a guy who has had success at a P5 level.   

 

That is what I struggled with as well until I looked at his assistant coaches and the current ISU head coach.

My belief is that most of his success at ISU was because of his assistant coaches. That, of course, is not provable, but its the explanation that I'm leaning towards now. 

[nustudent]

Just now, Ron Mexico said:

That is what I struggled with as well until I looked at his assistant coaches and the current ISU head coach.

My belief is that most of his success at ISU was because of his assistant coaches. That, of course, is not provable, but its the explanation that I'm leaning towards now. 

It's possible.   But he could also go out and make some good assistant coach hires this offseason as well.

[Cowboy Kermit]

That is what I struggled with as well until I looked at his assistant coaches and the current ISU head coach.
My belief is that most of his success at ISU was because of his assistant coaches. That, of course, is not provable, but its the explanation that I'm leaning towards now. 

A lot of coaches are successful due to their assistant coaches if the head coach is willing to construct a staff intelligently so they work as a unit with defined roles. Miles had that throughout most of his tenure, especially in the standout years. Fred’s staff construction is almost as bad as his roster construction. Some good assistant coach hires could make a world of difference.

[Ron Mexico]

40 minutes ago, nustudent said:

It's possible.   But he could also go out and make some good assistant coach hires this offseason as well.

That is absolutely paramount.

Honestly, if TA was going to retain him I'm OK with him doing it now. I wonder if this is to stabilize the roster. Maybe there was risk of current players and recruits bolting immediately after the season?

His needs to completely revamp the staff. Doc is gone for sure. 

Fred also needs to become more hands with recruiting and player development.

 

I'm still not sure I'm going to renew my tickets for next season. 

 

 

 

 

[HuskerFever]

1 hour ago, Ron Mexico said:

That is what I struggled with as well until I looked at his assistant coaches and the current ISU head coach.

My belief is that most of his success at ISU was because of his assistant coaches. That, of course, is not provable, but its the explanation that I'm leaning towards now. 

 

Timing and environment matter too.

 

As much as I dislike comparing hoops to football... Nebraska was on the forefront of strength and conditioning programs, had highly visible and scarce media exposure, deep and highly touted walking program, and strong position in it's conference, well beyond the brand elements the program had to offer.

 

That environment changed. Today, even a Sunbelt team has all of their games on TV (or streamed). Many other programs adopted the strength and conditioning program (so our players at every position were no longer stronger and faster than the competition). And recruiting pipelines have consolidated even more in the warm states. Although the brand is still a strong element, the environment has changed and has made it much more competitive/commoditized.

 

I believe the same could be said with Hoiberg at Iowa State. He was on the forefront of different recruiting techniques and found that arbitrage. That's no longer an advantage and is more saturated now.

 

I also wonder how much style of play in the Big 12 matter versus style of play in the Big Ten. Does his system work in a place like the Big Ten? I don't know. Could it? Maybe. But he has to relay on shooting lights out every night from beyond the arc.

[brfrad]

IMO, any system will work, as long playing defense is incorporated.   That doesn't mean holding teams to 50 or less points.  You can be a good defensive team giving up 65 - 70 points per game when you are running.  Defense is about forcing bad shots, and rebounding.

[HuskerFever]

10 minutes ago, brfrad said:

IMO, any system will work, as long playing defense is incorporated.   That doesn't mean holding teams to 50 or less points.  You can be a good defensive team giving up 65 - 70 points per game when you are running.  Defense is about forcing bad shots, and rebounding.

 

But what if your system doesn't include a true center who can properly defend and disrupt the Big Ten bigs?

[kldm64]

1 hour ago, Ron Mexico said:

That is absolutely paramount.

Honestly, if TA was going to retain him I'm OK with him doing it now. I wonder if this is to stabilize the roster. Maybe there was risk of current players and recruits bolting immediately after the season?

His needs to completely revamp the staff. Doc is gone for sure. 

Fred also needs to become more hands with recruiting and player development.

 

I'm still not sure I'm going to renew my tickets for next season. 

 

 

 

 

 

Enjoy sitting on your couch watching the games instead of at PBA.  I had planned to renew my tickets regardless of who the coach was next year.  

[nustudent]

4 hours ago, Ron Mexico said:

That is absolutely paramount.

Honestly, if TA was going to retain him I'm OK with him doing it now. I wonder if this is to stabilize the roster. Maybe there was risk of current players and recruits bolting immediately after the season?

His needs to completely revamp the staff. Doc is gone for sure. 

Fred also needs to become more hands with recruiting and player development.

 

I'm still not sure I'm going to renew my tickets for next season. 

 

 

 

 

I think it is everything.

 

Keeping Fred is as much about what benefits Nebraska the most as it is Fred.   As I've been saying...worst case scenario...he fails and we fire him next year.   Well...Trev just saved us over $8M if that's what we have to do by lowering the buyout and waiting until next year.   He's also adding players, that at least on paper, are very talented.   If we fire Fred next year...we have more money to spend, will hopefully not have the pending angst of the football situation hanging over our head and the new coach will have 8-9 guys he can try to retain as opposed to 4-5 if he was doing it now.  The best thing for Nebraska is for Fred to get it and have it work.  The next best thing for Nebraska is to make the move next year as opposed to this year.

Edited February 25, 2022 by nustudent

[nustudent]

2 hours ago, HuskerFever said:

 

But what if your system doesn't include a true center who can properly defend and disrupt the Big Ten bigs?

Pretty much any system is going to struggle in the Big Ten without that.

[Swan88]

Glad he's staying: a quality person with success in the past.

Hope he can make it work.