Freshmen as a core group

[75unlgrad]

Verge needs to go to the bench.  He wants to be our primary scorer (and dribbler).  Bring him and Tominaga off the bench and give our second unit some 'instant offense.'

 

We need to start developing our freshmen class more.  Our upperclassmen aren't passing and cutting and playing 'Hoiberg Ball.'  None of them have shown the ability to be 'THE MAN' and consistently lead the team when needed.  

 

I would start Kobe Webster at point, C.J. Wilcher at guard, Bryce McGowens at forward, Wilhelm Breidenbach at forward, and Walker at the post.  My first subs would be Lat Mayan and Eduardo Andre for Breidenbach and Walker -- help protect the big guys from foul trouble.  My next sub would be Keon Edwards for Kobe Webster -- I would move Bryce McGowens to 'point forward' and Edwards to the forward position (I want the ball in Bryce's hands more than what we saw in the last game).  Tominaga would be my next player off the bench followed by Verge.  

 

If the upperclassmen don't start producing at a higher rate, I think we will see these freshmen (in eligibility) get more and more playing time:

Bryce McGowens -- forward and 'point forward'

C.J. Wilcher -- guard

Keon Edwards -- forward

Wilhelm Breidenbach -- forward 

Eduardo Andre -- post

 

I don't know what other Husker basketball fans think.  I, for one, have no problem restricting the upperclassmen to less and less playing time -- especially if they continue to play like they did the last three games.  The future is with the freshmen class.  I would rather lose games with a young team that shows improvement over a veteran team that doesn't seem to learn from its mistakes.

 

As a season ticket holder, I would much rather attend games watching a talented group of young players learning to play in our system over veterans that don't want to pass the ball and play team ball.

[basketballjones]

I think a lot on this board are being far too hard on Verge (fairly critical, yes for sure, but too hard as far as "consequences"). 

We're jaded by the Biggs/Teddy situations - and now we think this is some sort of systematic problem and anyone who isn't playing well is some sort of team chemistry cancer. Verge is not one of those guys imo. From all accounts he seems like a good dude, on time, lunch pail guy. A firey competitor, and cares about his teammates. He just likes to tote the rock and score and we'd like him to create and distribute a bit more. Fixable things, imo. 

[hhcmatt]

We don't have to wait more than 12 hours at this point to see Edwards start

[Fullbacksympathy]

Hoping Webster gets the start as well.  If not, I'm hoping Verge gets 10 assists.  Having Kobe at the point and Keon on the wing should create more room for Bryce if Verge can't pass.  

[hhcmatt]

Bryce McGowens is quite likely to go to the NBA next year. In terms of developing for the future, he's functionally as much a part of that as Verge is. 

[Nebrasketballer]

58 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

I think a lot on this board are being far too hard on Verge (fairly critical, yes for sure, but too hard as far as "consequences"). 

We're jaded by the Biggs/Teddy situations - and now we think this is some sort of systematic problem and anyone who isn't playing well is some sort of team chemistry cancer. Verge is not one of those guys imo. From all accounts he seems like a good dude, on time, lunch pail guy. A firey competitor, and cares about his teammates. He just likes to tote the rock and score and we'd like him to create and distribute a bit more. Fixable things, imo. 

I don't think Verge is a cancer to the team the way that Biggs/Teddy were at all (At least I haven't heard any of that). But the way that Verge plays on the court is just as much a stick in the spokes of this offense, because it impedes ball movement to the rest of the scorers on the team. As long as Verge continues to be more concerned with getting his NBA Street game right and finishing it off by throwing up poor quality and highly contested shots at the rim, rather than kicking it out to an open shooter, this offense will continue to look discombobulated at best. He is highly skilled, but that type of play by the PG is a killer for Hoiberg's offense.

 

If, on the other hand, Verge decides to be a distributing PG (Like he was in the exhibition games), then he can be a very valuable piece of this team. Verge has all of the necessary talent to be that piece. It's up to him to embrace the role that Hoiberg needs him to fill, and to embrace the WE>ME, rather than looking to put some impressive personal highlights on film for NBA scouts to see.

 

I believe Verge is 100% capable of being a great player and filling the role Hoiberg needs him to fill for this team. It's up to him whether or not he wants to embrace that. Up to this point, unfortunately, he has not done so and it has resulted in a very ugly product on the court.

Edited November 19, 2021 by Nebrasketballer

[basketballjones]

6 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

But the way that Verge plays on the court is just as much a stick in the spokes of this offense, because it impedes ball movement to the rest of the scorers on the team. As long as Verge continues to be more concerned with getting his NBA Street game right and finishing it off by throwing up poor quality and highly contested shots at the rim, this offense will continue to look discombobulated at best. He is highly skilled, but that type of play by the PG is a killer for Hoiberg's offense.

 

If, on the other hand, Verge decides to be a distributing PG (Like he was in the game vs Colorado), then he can be a very valuable piece of this team. Verge's has all of the talent to be that piece. It's up to him to embrace the role that Hoiberg needs him to fill, and to embrace the WE>ME, rather than looking to put some impressive personal highlights on film for NBA scouts to see.

I dunno man... Watching the Peru State and Colorado games, he was absolutely elite in getting the ball distributed. Teams have adjusted to take away the pick and roll game for him and give him the jump shot. It's on coaching that they haven't adjusted and corrected the play, or created open opportunities for others. He's been head hunting the paint, and getting there, and there's not a lot of options for him other than the jump shot (which he is good at, it's just not falling). Where's the other cutters? Where's the guys finding open windows for kick-outs? Where's the Spanish ball screen game (screening the roll man's guy)? Where's using a guy like Bryce as a screener?  

[hhcmatt]

I'm looking at the number of games Fred Hoiberg has won here and the four consecutive games we're playing against teams we're paying to come here and thinking Never Mind the Bollocks, roll out whomever it's going to take to win games in the present. 

[Nebrasketballer]

29 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

I dunno man... Watching the Peru State and Colorado games, he was absolutely elite in getting the ball distributed. Teams have adjusted to take away the pick and roll game for him and give him the jump shot. It's on coaching that they haven't adjusted and corrected the play, or created open opportunities for others. He's been head hunting the paint, and getting there, and there's not a lot of options for him other than the jump shot (which he is good at, it's just not falling). Where's the other cutters? Where's the guys finding open windows for kick-outs? Where's the Spanish ball screen game (screening the roll man's guy)? Where's using a guy like Bryce as a screener?  

 

 

In regards to "It's on coaching that they haven't adjusted and corrected the play", Go back and watch these last two games. On the regular, you can literally see Hoiberg telling Verge not to drive and throw up some wild shot, but he just ignores Hoiberg and does it anyway. And when he gets to the rim, there's a difference between a quality finish at the rim and a poor quality, contested shot. I'm not saying he should never look to finish at the rim, but when the defense collapses, and/or he is met by a rim protector in the paint, he needs to kick that out to shooters, rather than throwing up a prayer.

 

I've said it before, even though those types of throw away shots don't show up as turnovers on the stat sheet, with a team that rebounds as poorly as the Huskers, it is effectively the same negative impact as a turnover. A poor quality highly-contested circus shot at the rim isn't his only option, there are always 4 other options on the floor. I would rather see a kick out 3PT shot for Bryce, Mayen, Wilcher, Edwards, Tominaga, Webster, and, hell, even Breidenbach than see a contested circus shot at the rim by a 160 lbs PG.

 

And the lack of ball movement is what leads to a lack of cutters. We saw the same thing with Teddy. When he got the ball, the rest of the guys on the court often ended up just standing around and watching, because when he got it, he was largely a black hole. In this offense, ball movement is a necessity. Sticky hands are kryptonite and put the rest of the guys on the floor to sleep.

[basketballjones]

6 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

In regards to "It's on coaching that they haven't adjusted and corrected the play", Go back and watch these last two games. On the regular, you can literally see Hoiberg telling Verge not to drive and throw up some wild shot, but he just ignores Hoiberg and does it anyway.

I'm not sure it's that simple, but I'll give it to you. 
 

7 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

've said it before, even though those types of throw away shots don't show up as turnovers on the stat sheet, with a team that rebounds as poorly as the Huskers, it is effectively the same negative impact as a turnover. A poor quality highly-contested circus shot at the rim isn't his only option, there are always 4 other options on the floor. I would rather see a kick out 3PT shot for Bryce, Mayen, Wilcher, Edwards, Tominaga, Webster, and, hell, even Breidenbach than see a contested circus shot at the rim by a 160 lbs PG.

No one disagrees with that. And everyone agrees with your last sentence. Maybe you have the the clips or screen grabs - but when I watch I haven't seen a lot of guys shot ready, in a window, ready for kick outs - and I have just seen a guy (verge) taking what the defense has given him but unfortunately not finishing. 

 

9 minutes ago, Nebrasketballer said:

he was largely a black hole.

At this point I am not sure I have seen anyone on this team who's NOT a black hole. It's a team problem. Wilhelm thinks he's gotta dribble and score if he touches it. Lat thinks he needs to dribble and score if he touches it. Kobe the same. Trey the same. Bryce the same. CJ the same. Too many guys with one skill set and mentality. Not enough guys willing to play a different role and differ. 

[Nebrasketballer]

4 minutes ago, basketballjones said:

I'm not sure it's that simple, but I'll give it to you. 
 

No one disagrees with that. And everyone agrees with your last sentence. Maybe you have the the clips or screen grabs - but when I watch I haven't seen a lot of guys shot ready, in a window, ready for kick outs - and I have just seen a guy (verge) taking what the defense has given him but unfortunately not finishing. 

 

At this point I am not sure I have seen anyone on this team who's NOT a black hole. It's a team problem. Wilhelm thinks he's gotta dribble and score if he touches it. Lat thinks he needs to dribble and score if he touches it. Kobe the same. Trey the same. Bryce the same. CJ the same. Too many guys with one skill set and mentality. Not enough guys willing to play a different role and differ. 

"Wilhelm thinks he's gotta dribble and score if he touches it. Lat thinks he needs to dribble and score if he touches it. Kobe the same. Trey the same. Bryce the same. CJ the same."

 

To me, this is the direct result of the way Verge is deciding to play at this point. If he was playing as an actual PG, and getting the ball to them in scoring positions, then they wouldn't feel the need to create on their own (which I honestly don't think that's something that any of those guys can consistently do, other than Bryce and maybe Trey/Kobe in certain games when they get into a good rhythm). When the ball isn't moving around, then the other guys end up standing around and watching, rather than being ready for kickouts and/or back door cuts to the basket. Whether that's right or wrong for them to do is a separate issue. I'm saying it's what happens. Those guys aren't going to expect the ball to move and find them, unless the ball starts moving and finding them. And, since Verge is the PG initiating the offense on most possessions, that starts with him.

 

Bottom line is, as long as Verge continues to play the way he has in Nebraska's first 3 games, Nebraska won't win many games this season and their offense will continue to look like it has. If, on the other hand, Verge starts moving the ball around like he did in Nebraska's exhibition games, then I think this team can win a lot of games and play an exciting brand of basketball while doing it.

 

My hope is that he embraces his role, so that he can reach his potential as a PG and so that this team can reach its potential.

[Handy Johnson]

After two seasons & three games defining “Hoiberg Ball” has proven to be elusive…

[cornfed24-7]

6 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

After two seasons & three games defining “Hoiberg Ball” has proven to be elusive…

Actually not really. Just not sure we as fans like the definition all that much.

[basketballjones]

2 hours ago, Nebrasketballer said:

"Wilhelm thinks he's gotta dribble and score if he touches it. Lat thinks he needs to dribble and score if he touches it. Kobe the same. Trey the same. Bryce the same. CJ the same."

 

To me, this is the direct result of the way Verge is deciding to play at this point. If he was playing as an actual PG, and getting the ball to them in scoring positions, then they wouldn't feel the need to create on their own (which I honestly don't think that's something that any of those guys can consistently do, other than Bryce and maybe Trey/Kobe in certain games when they get into a good rhythm). When the ball isn't moving around, then the other guys end up standing around and watching, rather than being ready for kickouts and/or back door cuts to the basket. Whether that's right or wrong for them to do is a separate issue. I'm saying it's what happens. Those guys aren't going to expect the ball to move and find them, unless the ball starts moving and finding them. And, since Verge is the PG initiating the offense on most possessions, that starts with him.

Disagree with the sentiment here. None of those guys decided to play that way because Verge is dribbling and shooting too much. This has been a systematic issue since Hoiberg has been here. If those guys knew how to move without the ball and space properly, they would get the ball. Verge has shown the ability to make great passes. Do I think he's making great decisions always? No. I do not like his shot selection. But I think, for the most part, he's taking what the defense is giving him and what is available. Just my opinion, we can agree to disagree. 

 

2 hours ago, Nebrasketballer said:

Bottom line is, as long as Verge continues to play the way he has in Nebraska's first 3 games, Nebraska won't win many games this season and their offense will continue to look like it has. If, on the other hand, Verge starts moving the ball around like he did in Nebraska's exhibition games, then I think this team can win a lot of games and play an exciting brand of basketball while doing it.

 

My hope is that he embraces his role, so that he can reach his potential as a PG and so that this team can reach its potential.

No disagreement from me here. I would just add that all the guys need to accept their role, move without the basketball, swing it, and play team basketball. My point is not all of this falls on Verge's shoulders. Not even close, imo. 

[Cazzie22]

I miss Thor and his willingness to pass and cut and not hold onto the ball.  Someone needs to become a Thor this year. Maybe our overall “talent” isn’t as good as we hoped.

[doc1394]

I assume McPherson redshirting this year? He hasn’t played yet but is fully suited up and sits right next to the coaches. He’s one of the most communicative players on the bench. 

[Huskerpapa]

9 hours ago, doc1394 said:

I assume McPherson redshirting this year? He hasn’t played yet but is fully suited up and sits right next to the coaches. He’s one of the most communicative players on the bench. 

Could be.  I heard Sam is redshirting and he is in uniform.  Yet Oleg is in street clothes and I assume he is redshirting.   I guess I have not heard anything definitive...yet.

[hhcmatt]

10 hours ago, doc1394 said:

I assume McPherson redshirting this year? He hasn’t played yet but is fully suited up and sits right next to the coaches. He’s one of the most communicative players on the bench. 

 

I think so as well. Someone here please call into Hoiberg's radio show unless one of the local scribes is going to formally ask about this.

[Handy Johnson]

Edwards missed all of his 3 attempts yesterday I believe, we desperately need him to be more than just “a guy” especially with Lat being such a non-factor & Trey on the shelf for ??? 

[75unlgrad]

37 minutes ago, Handy Johnson said:

Edwards missed all of his 3 attempts yesterday I believe, we desperately need him to be more than just “a guy” especially with Lat being such a non-factor & Trey on the shelf for??? 

We need to keep playing Edwards.  He has great natural ability.  We need to remember that he did not have a senior season because of covid.  He is making the jump to D1 after being 'forced' to miss his last year of high school. 

 

He is one of the players that we need to develop.  In two years, we have Tominaga (sr), Wilcher (jr), Breidenbach (jr), Edwards (jr), Andre (jr), Blaise Keita (jr), and Ramel Lloyd (soph), This is a nucleus that can compete in the BIG.  We need to keep bringing in two or three freshmen recruits each year.  We build our team with freshmen recruits that stay 3 to 4 years.  We can bring in one transfer to meet a specific need -- if he has the mental discipline to play within the system.  We would also take a 'one-and-done' player occasionally if the opportunity came.  But main point is we build our team with freshmen recruits.

[Huskerpapa]

23 minutes ago, 75unlgrad said:

We need to keep playing Edwards.  He has great natural ability.  We need to remember that he did not have a senior season because of covid.  He is making the jump to D1 after being 'forced' to miss his last year of high school. 

 

He is one of the players that we need to develop.  In two years, we have Tominaga (sr), Wilcher (jr), Breidenbach (jr), Edwards (jr), Andre (jr), Blaise Keita (jr), and Ramel Lloyd (soph), This is a nucleus that can compete in the BIG.  We need to keep bringing in two or three freshmen recruits each year.  We build our team with freshmen recruits that stay 3 to 4 years.  We can bring in one transfer to meet a specific need -- if he has the mental discipline to play within the system.  We would also take a 'one-and-done' player occasionally if the opportunity came.  But main point is we build our team with freshmen recruits.

Interesting conundrum.   We currently have three starters, that may or may not be the key to a successful season.  Two of them appear to be doing too little and one who is trying to do much.  All three need to find middle ground in order for us to be successful.  One of them could be a future star.

We seemingly have the talent to be a good team.  But if talent does not create positive results, then it can get ugly.  

I humbly believe the staff is trying to drive results by limiting minutes.  But with 20% of our season completed; and the start of conference season starting this week, it may be time to poop or get off the pot. 

We need a rotation that fully meshes and can provide quality results.  We allegedly are deep enough even without Trey.  

 

[throwback]

On 11/27/2021 at 8:21 AM, hhcmatt said:

 

I think so as well. Someone here please call into Hoiberg's radio show unless one of the local scribes is going to formally ask about this.

I didn't call in  but someone did. Fred says Sam is redshirting and "two" other players are probably going to redshirt, but no final decisions on that yet.

[hhcmatt]

10 minutes ago, throwback said:

I didn't call in  but someone did. Fred says Sam is redshirting and "two" other players are probably going to redshirt, but no final decisions on that yet.

 

Yup, hit up the text line. I should have worded it better for a more thorough answer but I think we can assume that any guys that haven't played will red shirt unless we are hit with more injuries. I think that's just Oleg and McPherson for scholarship players and Jack for walk ons

[millerhusker]

Pretty cool that McPherson is willing to redshirt. That's not very common nowadays. Love his energy and demeanor on the bench. I think he's got a bright future. 

[hhcmatt]

3 hours ago, hhcmatt said:

 

Yup, hit up the text line. I should have worded it better for a more thorough answer but I think we can assume that any guys that haven't played will red shirt unless we are hit with more injuries. I think that's just Oleg and McPherson for scholarship players and Jack for walk ons

 

Doesn't look like Jace Piatkowski has played a minute yet this year though he has already redshirted