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For some reason I'm the exact opposite from Cookie--this thread and discussion are incredibly frustrating and disappointing: it's like listening to a guy who just won a multi-million $ lottery complain about finances. For Pete's sake, whatever happened to "long, lean and under-rated"? By definition, Tim Miles' recruits will apparently be a disappointment to most. Heck, look at what Tim Miles did at Colorado State with few-to-none stars behind his recruit's names.And for the record, NU is not a tough place to recruit--just ask Tim Miles and, as he says, Connie Yori, John Cook, etc. And for the further record, the world of college basketball is filled with highly-rated recruits whose college performance falls somewhere between "disappointing" and "crashed and burned." Just look at the list of multi-star transfers this year and every other recent year. And then compare them with the over-achieving-from-expectations performance of most players on Tim Miles teams, such as the likes of Benny Parker, Shavon Shields, Walter Pitchford, Terran Petteway, Leslee Smith, and all the scholarship seniors on the prior year's team. Assuming Cookie is liking this thread because it has stayed civil (when it easily could have gotten nasty) with posters offering respectful perspectives, I can see why one would enjoy this discussion. That being said, I agree with the crux of Swan's postions of "Why are we even having this conversation?" and "Will anyone ever be satisfied with Miles?" In the last few months, the Nebrasketball expectations have morphed into seemingly unrealistic expectations by a vocal "Win NOW and I don't care about yesterday" crowd who shove allegedly empiric examples in front of us as evidence of dire straights. Let's take ISU. In the last 20 years (and I am using 20 years only because we are dealing with 18-20 year old recruits), ISU has had: 4 conference championships (regular season or tournament or both) Nebraska has 1 in the same period 9 NCAA Tournament appearances with a 12-9 record and an average 5 seed Nebraska has 3 with an 0-3 record 10 NBA draft picks 6 in the first round; 5 of which came within the last 10 years. Nebraska has 3 and none in the last 10 years 4 first and second team All-Americans. Nebraska has 3 with 0 in the last 10 years ISU is just not a good comparison. At least ISU has some history and made it into the Sweet 16 this season as well in addition to a conference championship to boot. Finally, we all want Nebrasketball to improve. I have faith it will happen, but not on the time table some are advocating. Be patient. Give Miles at least another 1-2 years before attacking his recruiting.

There isn't really a forum for general discussion, so I figured I throw this in here, since this is where most of the activity is. Since it's the off season and there's generally a little less hustle and bustle, I thought I'd throw out the idea of creating a new header for HHC. Don't get me wrong. I do like the current header, but it's also kind of nice to switch things up every once in a while. I'm fairly decent when it comes to Photoshop, so I'd be happy to volunteer my services, but I also though that maybe we could turn it into a contest of some sort. We could have people submit their ideas, and then have people vote for their favorite. What do other people think?

Maybe if this thread gets to 20 pages, it will bring us good luck in recruiting

I'll bite. I don't understand the significance of this reference Norm and I have traded opinions on how horrible the south is, kudzu being a prime example, and how we don't understand why recruits actually *choose* to go there (perhaps reinforcing the bagman conspiracy) to live. Guys like Atewe, Elbert and now Deng choosing southern climate schools over us. It's kind of morphed into an inside joke I suppose. Nothing more. Carry on.

I actually like Molinari for his recruiting ties. The guy has spent 33 years coaching in the Big 10 region. Between Depaul, NIU, WIU, UM, Bradley, and Ball State he has been connected with many coaches at high schools and AAU programs all across the footprint that will be the easiest for NU to sell recruits on. The years alone in Illinois will prove invaluable because of all the incredible basketball talent in the state.

For some reason I'm the exact opposite from Cookie--this thread and discussion are incredibly frustrating and disappointing: it's like listening to a guy who just won a multi-million $ lottery complain about finances. For Pete's sake, whatever happened to "long, lean and under-rated"? By definition, Tim Miles' recruits will apparently be a disappointment to most. Heck, look at what Tim Miles did at Colorado State with few-to-none stars behind his recruit's names.And for the record, NU is not a tough place to recruit--just ask Tim Miles and, as he says, Connie Yori, John Cook, etc. And for the further record, the world of college basketball is filled with highly-rated recruits whose college performance falls somewhere between "disappointing" and "crashed and burned." Just look at the list of multi-star transfers this year and every other recent year. And then compare them with the over-achieving-from-expectations performance of most players on Tim Miles teams, such as the likes of Benny Parker, Shavon Shields, Walter Pitchford, Terran Petteway, Leslee Smith, and all the scholarship seniors on the prior year's team.

Still amazes me how many people do not understand recruiting in basketball.

About as polar opposite as can be. An empty campus from Monday to Wednesday. Las Vegas over the weekend. We better hope he's more of an introvert. I would say Wake is the team to beat, but we didn't exactly get the best draw. If Miles pull this one off, Miles' recruiting critics should take notice

Will that be ever known as Oregon's Fab Five?

Dana went to the dark side to up the talent level. He may be wishing he was over-achieving at a midmajor rather than having to deal with this.

Just a word of caution. The headers came from images that we received permission to use. All of the images were archives in the media guides. I believe it is against NCAA rules for us to use images of current players (but I'm not caught up on all the changes in the past few years) and I'm not sure how the O'Bannon case on athletes likenesses applies here. Also any images coming from AP/B1G/ESPN/Getty etc. would require permission from those agencies not just the university. Anecdotally, this is how I got involved in the Web site, asking Dave if he would post my Maric-era wallpapers on the site, which of course we couldn't for the reasons above.

I actually like Molinari for his recruiting ties. The guy has spent 33 years coaching in the Big 10 region. Between Depaul, NIU, WIU, UM, Bradley, and Ball State he has been connected with many coaches at high schools and AAU programs all across the footprint that will be the easiest for NU to sell recruits on. The years alone in Illinois will prove invaluable because of all the incredible basketball talent in the state. A Glynn Watson commit would provide a lot of validation for what you're saying.

Individual success for Petteway this upcoming season could be as helpful for recruiting as continued team success. The more he pops up on ESPN, the better. If a year from now, he's being talked about in terms of where he'll be drafted, great. Some kids probably need to see that someone wearing the N can have hoops fame and go to the League. For rival coaches, Nebraska has to be one of the easiest big conference schools to negatively recruit against because of its history and location. Not that all coaches go that route, but sustained, publicized Petteway success will give Nebraska something else it can check off the list of its possible negatives. The turnover among staff members likely hasn’t helped Miles' early high school recruiting, nor has the fact that only Hunter has had significant recent high major experience. Molinari could turn out be a great hire, and he does have a couple of Minnesota years sandwiched in between a lot of mid major years, but it's arguable that a younger guy, especially one with high major recruiting experience, would have been at least as good of a choice. But the hire's been made, so hopefully this current group will stick together for two or more years. That said, I think Miles' recruiting looks as promising as it did a year ago. Like Kamdy said, transfers were going to be a tough sell this offseason due to all of the minutes returning. Don't think you can be too hard on Miles for not securing a bigger name at this point. From what I've seen, Miles has done a great job of identifying needs, finding underrated talent, and targeting players early. The 2014 class is a little underwhelming, but at least each guy fills a definite need. I would expect the 2015 class to be a more respectable, middle-of-the-B1G-pack (or higher) group.

Filling out the last two spots with Jordan Cornish and Andrew White III . . . wouldn't that be cool ! Probably unrealistic, but it would be cool.

It sounds like Kenya did try to recruit him "White’s recruitment has been one that put college coaches on a roller coaster and gave them a long ride. Just last weekend, Georgetown dispatched an assistant coach to Charlotte to see him play. The Hoyas were all in on White as assistant Kenya Hunter came straight from Maui."

That makes 3 Husker coaches named B1G coach of the year I think. Miles, Yori, and now Revelle. Pretty good showing out of Lincoln if you ask me.

Kamdy, I respect the hell out of you and believe you have a better overall understanding of both the game of basketball and basketball recruiting than I do. However, this is about more than just relationship building over time. What about the transfer market, and especially the grad transfer market? That has absolutely nothing to do with long-term relationship building. It's about convincing guys, some of whom have only one year of on-court eligibility left, that Nebraska is a place where they can take their talents, experience success and play in the tournament. That really has very little to do with the type of long-term relationship building with high school players that you're talking about. This year, we were simply unable to parlay our momentum into real success in the transfer market. Now, I know we're a Johnny-come-lately type of program right now without an established history of success, but when I look at the type of transfer Creighton is bringing in, for example, relative to what we're doing, it's really disheartening to me. I was personally hoping to see a greater degree of success in courting transfers in the 2014 late period, and especially grad transfers. I felt that some talented transfers would see what we're building, the conference we play in, the success we had last year and the type of team we have coming back, and want to be a part of it. I was wrong. Transfers, especially one year guys, want to play and play now. Tell me what guy, from the outside, sees themselves playing over Walt, Terran, or Shavon. All thats left is the center and point guard position. The centers that we heard NU in on went to bigger and more prosperous schools. Point guard there really doesnt seem to be a huge need there but also not a big market of them out there. One thing to also remember, just because BR and RW report things, it doesnt mean Miles and staff werent on top of other guys but they simply had no interest. NU is still a new commodity on the circuit and doesnt hold the same weight. I'd assume Walt wouldnt be at Nebraska if he played more and better as a freshman. If Miles didnt have the relationship with terran I doubt we get him. The relationships will be built, the connections will grow, and as they continue to build a winning tradition you will start to see more activity with transfers and recruits respectively.

Honestly, I see both sides of this argument. On the one hand, Miles has done an incredible job of building this program in the two years he’s been here and has accelerated the rebuilding process to an extent that I don’t believe many with realistic expectations expected. However, the OP raises a valid concern. We’re where we are right now, aside from all of the outstanding culture building and player development this staff has overseen during their tenure, primarily because of two key players. The first is Shavon Shields, who was a legacy and a Sadler recruit. Of course, Miles would have gotten him too if he had been the coach when Shavon was being recruited, but we were very fortunate to land Shavon. He’s turned out to be better than anyone imagined. And, of course, then there’s Mr. Petteway. This was like a gift from the heavens that no one saw coming. I might add that the guy who recruited Terran (and Tarin Smith and Jacob Hammond too) is now in South Dakota running his own program. I feel we lost our best recruiter when Smith walked out the door. I believe we got very lucky with Petteway. If he had averaged 10 PPG at Tech instead of 1.9 as a freshman, would we have gotten him? Maybe we still would have, but I’m skeptical knowing what his other options would have looked like. I know he loved Smith and Miles, but no one knew how good this guy was going to be, and the competition for his services wasn’t that strong. When Terran transferred here, he wasn’t the guy we know now. He was a guy whose freshman season highlight wasn’t even a basketball play, but rather a hard elbow to the jaw of an opposing player. Now, every team needs a bit of luck, no matter how good, but it’s not every year that you get a legacy recruit like Shields and strike gold with a transfer like Petteway. The Petteway situation was almost like those stories you hear about the woman who goes to a garage sale and buys an ugly painting for $5 because she likes the frame, only to find a priceless Monet hidden behind it when she gets home. We will not continue to be that lucky. Sooner or later we’re going to have to rely on skill to recruit a higher caliber of player. Here’s the bottom line: if we want to compete with the top teams in the B1G, we have to be able to recruit well enough to match up with their personnel. That doesn’t mean our 13 need to be as good as their 13, because that’s never going to happen when you compare our roster to the likes of Michigan, MSU, OSU, etc. What we need, however, is to be able to have a core group of guys who can go out there and legitimately compete against what those teams will put on the court. Though we were a bit short on personnel last season, we had enough talent to compete at the highest level and challenge any team in the country when we were at our best, especially at home. Will that continue in the years to come? Tarin Smith and Jacob Hammond appear to be nice players. Ayegba is a one-year space filler who shouldn’t be counted on for anything more illustrious than basic competence. We’ll see who else joins this class, but signing only one player in the early period was a disappointment. Failing to fill the classes over the past two years was another disappointment that hurt us, and we may come up short once again for the third year in a row. Kenya Hunter, to me, has been a disappointment on the recruiting trail thus far. Moses Ayegba will help us, but even that was a special situation. Has Hunter distinguished himself as a quality recruiter thus far? Have his connections gotten us in the door with players who didn’t go to Georgetown or whose AAU coaches weren’t close personal friends? Hell, he couldn’t even get us a visit from Greg Whittington, regardless of what subsequently happened with his academic status. No matter how much we love coach Miles -- and I count myself among his most passionate supporters – we have to be honest with ourselves and not allow our affection and admiration for him to prevent us from engaging in a sincere critical analysis of his recruiting performance. Eventually, the guy has got to start recruiting at a higher level, and he’s got to start filling the scholarship numbers. If he doesn’t, this thing is eventually going to run out of steam and we’re going to start losing ground, not only to the Wisconsins and Ohio States of the world, but also to the second-tier programs in the Conference. I’ve posted before that I’m a bit disappointed that the recent elevation of the Nebrasketball brand hasn’t given our recruiting a major boost thus far. Sure, it helped us land Tarin Smith, but look at the competition there. The St. Joe’s offer was decent, but after that you’re talking about a guy whose best offers were from teams like Delaware, Buffalo, Bucknell, Detroit and Ole Miss. Despite all of the publicity, great press and on-court achievement over the past few months, the impact on late-period recruiting for 2014 has been muted at best. Its impact on the transfer market has been especially disappointing. Now, I know many of you are preaching about how basketball recruiting is 2-3 years out and that 2015 is the defining class, but if we come up short again, the excuses will start to look very hollow. Ed Morrow is a must get. If we strike out there, it will be a very bad general indicator of the strength of our recruiting. It’s time for this staff to take care of business in recruiting the way they’ve taken care of business on the court. I hope people understand that I’m not trying to be negative or highly critical of the staff. Like Central said, I believe it’s possible to both love and appreciate coach Miles and what he’s done, but also be concerned about the way we’ve recruited during his time in Lincoln. I don’t care how good a coach you are. If you don’t have the players, you won’t win in this league.

What doesn't add up? Wasn't he a known academic question mark from the get go? I thought there was talk that he might not qualify and have to go the JUCO route well before he even signed with us. Here is a post from 2013 Assuming you read the Tunnel Talk this morning. For those who don't subscribe, Robin provide an update/summary of the Elbert situation. Nothing new here just a summary of his final list being delayed and his LSU/Shaq visit. The update on Pinder said the biggest concern right now is whether or not he would qualify academically. They are seeing if his credits/high school work from Australia will transfer and he has yet to take the SAT. Robin said this is a huge question mark with Pinder and like huskerbaseball13 said, he may have to go the JUCO route. It looks like this has been known about for awhile. There are a lot of reasons why he might never end up at Nebraska....him not being good enough for this team currently isn't at the top of them. The book on him is freak athlete with unpolished game...there is always the chance he could become "too good" for Nebraska. Heck, in two years Harriman might be a head coach somewhere else and he could land there. We'll have to take a look at this thread in two years...assuming this board is still a thing in two years.

I am a huge supporter of Coach Miles and the job he has done...huge. I am not dissing the recruiting to date, but I am very, very anxious for some recruiting wins. Very anxious. WHY...because once we turn the recruiting corner, once we start landing the highest level recruits, THEN we know we are moving to the highest levele of basketball on a consistent basis. Does that make sense?

I'll see what I can do.

Hoiberg didn't go the NCAA tournament his first year at ISU. They were a .500 team, 3-13 in the Big 12 and finished in dead last. He had four players total return from the season before. He brought some difference makers via the transfer route. Ejim was left behind by McDermott. He didn't recruit him. Kinda like Shields, he got a little luck there. But Kane was a transfer. Niang might be his first 4 year stud that he's landed and that wasn't until his third recruiting class. And, btw, ISU has some great hoops fans. Even when they were down that was a tough, tough place to play, up until, probably the Wisconsin game, I'd give ISU the clear edge over NU in the fan category. They also have a fairly new practice facility, only a couple of years older than ours. They're really not that far behind NU in the facilities category and have some actual tradition to sell. Don't sell ISU short, they have some selling points on the hoops side. WSU and Creighton were a core group of players that were there for several years, for he most part and built to this season. That's development over time. CU was more than McDermott. I'm not familiar with UNM enough to comment there. Honestly, the trajectory I see from Miles looks pretty similar to what Hoiberg has done at ISU. Time will tell if he gets there, but I'm not seeing what you're seeing at all. I mean, he's got the first legit NBA talent at Nebraska since Hamilton and Lue were here. That's a pretty big deal, and that happened pretty quickly after he showed on campus. It showed right away for Miles, too.

Great recruiters usually show it right away. Look at Iowa State recently. What does Ames have that is not better in Lincoln. The town, the university, facilities, fans? How does the talent show up at places like New Mexico, Wichita State, or dare I saw Creighton? Miles looks to be a great floor coach, good at developing talent, and many other things. But we are a long ways from getting the kind of talent here that wins conference championships or sweet 16s.

1. I never thought he was any good. 2. We probably cooled on him. 3. Clearly Boi$e paid him. Am I forgetting anything?? 4. Something to do with Creighton.

Try actually talking about Nebraska basketball. If you've put more effort digging into whomever is coaching the football team than the actual purpose of the forum, you might want to question if you're in the right place.

No stars Rivals. No stars ESPN. No stars 247. No reference to Nebraska (or any other suitors) on any of those sources. Nothing pops up from googling his name and "Nebraska." And Tim Miles apparently STILL couldn't land him. Oh . . . but, according to him, he had offers from "Kansas State, Texas Tech, Houston, Nebraska and Oklahoma State, among others." Yep. This player clearly shows that Nebrasketball recruiting is heading down the toilet after all. And, yep, now it all has something to do with him not being good enough, Nebrasketball cooled on him (apparently before we ever warmed in the first place--perhaps it had something to do with global warming), and Creighton was clearly trying to tag along when were begging him to come visit here.